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RUMOR: Kovalev wants a 3-year extension before camp

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Old
07-06-2008, 10:56 PM
  #251
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I swear...for some here, the idea of not having Kovalev and Koivu (but especially Koivu) in a Hab uniform, is almost suicidal

The mere mention of it otherwise, means someone is a Kovalev or Koivu hater...

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07-06-2008, 10:58 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Well... there is a way to see it. We have to ask ourselves a couple of questions before saying what Bob should do. Like :

What type of impact does Kovalev have on this team?

- Well, as far as I know, He led the team in scoring in our both last playoffs appearance (7pts in 6 games against Carolina, 11pts in 12 games against Boston/Philadelphia).

- He led the team in scoring 2 of the three last years (65pts in 69 games, 84pts in 82 games).

- He's the best PP player in the league.

- He can play both on the PK and on the PP, and on the PK, he's arguably our most efficient player.

- He's the most shapy player on this team.

- Since he's on this team, we have the best PP of the league.

- He displays a high level of leadership with the young Russian boys.

- The best season we had in the last 3 years matches with the best season he had. Our second best season matches with his 2nd best. Our worst season matches with his worst season. that's saying the impact he has on this team.

- The other players paid 4,5M per year are not as good as Kovy.

And, if you look at the market, the price range next year for his services is going to be even higher, as it goes up since the end of the lockout. With the cap going up, Kovalev is going to worth more than 6M next year. This year, he may be in the 5,5M range.

In my opinion, this is the time to re-sign him. This is a great idea. You've got to show some respect towards your best player.

Hockey wise, I think Tanguay is a more complete player, but he doesn't excel in what he does as Kovy does when he's on his game.
I pretty much agree with every thing except this. He's not close to being our best PKer

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07-06-2008, 10:59 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No matter how many talented young guns we have, we'll always need some good veterans.
Koivu has been our captain for the past what..11years?..Gainey being a class act, will sign Koivu to his last contract. The same will be done with Kovalev that is one of the few in this league that can still be spectacular even if he gets old.

Fiscally it does make sense, just go read my previous post on this page. It's not like they'll be asking for 8M each. Together i see them hitting around 10 or 11M.
We'll see...and i'm not even saying I don't agree with you, but let's wait and see. The market is all out of whack, you got guys who IMO, aren't near worthy of their salary, getting huge raises and long term deals and you guys all project under the market numbers for Kovalev and Koivu, I don't personally think they'll be as ready to give salary discounts as some of you are...not the way some average players are getting paid.

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07-06-2008, 11:01 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
lol! I'm a Koivu hater?

Anyways, if you can stop being a baby for a second and realize that I don't agree with giving 2 guys extensions to players that are getting older, while we have several other young players who will need to get new deals in the near future...

I don't think it make sense fiscally, in a cap world, to have both Kovalev and Koivu on contracts for the next 2-3-4 years, take Kovalev or Koivu, I don't care either way...but not both.

It's not about hating Koivu, it's about making decisions that are good for the team and its future...it's all about cap flexibility
At 49 years old, I have better things to do with my time than correspond with someone who just spoke to me this rudely. You'll have to read my other posts to see my rebuttals to any points you make.

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07-06-2008, 11:03 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I swear...for some here, the idea of not having Kovalev and Koivu (but especially Koivu) in a Hab uniform, is almost suicidal

The mere mention of it otherwise, means someone is a Kovalev or Koivu hater...
Well I don't think you're a hater of either of them...

Just think that you kid yourself if you believe (considering the Habs organization and how BG works and that everybody of importance could fit very nicely under the cap) that the Habs won't resign both, as one is a long time captain and a lifer and has kept thios team together and has always been loyal and the other is extremely important to many aspects of our team. Koivu is the heart of this team and Kovy is the lungs, you can't do without either, not until the youth has more experience.

You tell Baseballcoach not to act like a child, but you are doing exactly that by not wanting to understand the reasons why it is most likely that they will keep both of them, even for 3 more years.

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07-06-2008, 11:03 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I swear...for some here, the idea of not having Kovalev and Koivu (but especially Koivu) in a Hab uniform, is almost suicidal

The mere mention of it otherwise, means someone is a Kovalev or Koivu hater...
Not it doesnt.
Personally, I used to want Koivu out a long time ago. But now that our team is actually pretty darn good, and Plekanec is the top center. I don't think you'll find many teams with a better second line center. There are some, but only a few exceptions.
Plekanec-Kovalev-A.Kost line became a legit 1st line in the NHL last season.
This year, the Tanguay-Koivu-Lats (Im hoping they put Lats there) will have a legit chance of being a pretty good offensive line as well.
If this top 6 is a success, I just don't see why we'd let any of these 2players go.

Everything seems to be coming into place, letting either one go at this time just doesn't seem like the smart move.

On top of it, they're both part of the rare players that actually mean it when they say ''I want to stay here''.
They're keepers.

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07-06-2008, 11:06 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not it doesnt.
Personally, I used to want Koivu out a long time ago. But now that our team is actually pretty darn good, and Plekanec is the top center. I don't think you'll find many teams with a better second line center. There are some, but only a few exceptions.
Plekanec-Kovalev-A.Kost line became a legit 1st line in the NHL last season.
This year, the Tanguay-Koivu-Lats (Im hoping they put Lats there) will have a legit chance of being a pretty good offensive line as well.
If this top 6 is a success, I just don't see why we'd let any of these 2players go.

Everything seems to be coming into place, letting either one go at this time just doesn't seem like the smart move.

On top of it, they're both part of the rare players that actually mean it when they say ''I want to stay here''.
They're keepers.

This is not the time to rebuild. This is the time to fine-tune towards a championship drive.

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07-06-2008, 11:07 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
We'll see...and i'm not even saying I don't agree with you, but let's wait and see. The market is all out of whack, you got guys who IMO, aren't near worthy of their salary, getting huge raises and long term deals and you guys all project under the market numbers for Kovalev and Koivu, I don't personally think they'll be as ready to give salary discounts as some of you are...not the way some average players are getting paid.
That's why we're talking about an extension. Players that agree to extensions before the end of their contracts or hitting the open market, are usually payed a lot less than UFAs.

I don't think Kovalev would have asked to sign an extension before the Start of training camp if hitting the jackpot was what he was looking for. I also don't see Koivu getting anything more than 5M, but that depends on next season I guess.

The only one I do see possible bouncing on out of here is Tanguay.

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07-06-2008, 11:09 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
We'll see...and i'm not even saying I don't agree with you, but let's wait and see. The market is all out of whack, you got guys who IMO, aren't near worthy of their salary, getting huge raises and long term deals and you guys all project under the market numbers for Kovalev and Koivu, I don't personally think they'll be as ready to give salary discounts as some of you are...not the way some average players are getting paid.
Please make the difference. These players you mention were signed ON the market. Kovy and Koivu will probably be signed to extentions, outside the market. Both GMs and agents know that they can't base moves on the market for a contract extention because the market precludes a bidding war. Some will say that when you sign outside the market, the GM will pay the player for not testing the said market, but with loyal players it is rarely the case. There are many cases in point, mainly Lecavalier who could of signed for 11 mil (or more depending on next year's cap) but decided he wanted to remain in TB. For older players signing outside the market (So you can't count Rolston in this) it's much harder to sign extentions that have market value.

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07-06-2008, 11:09 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
This is not the time to rebuild. This is the time to fine-tune towards a championship drive.
Yea...that's why I want to keep Koivu and Kovalev....
Not sure you understood my post quite right..

I feel Koivu and Kovalev are key pieces for us to win that Championship.

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07-06-2008, 11:11 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Well... there is a way to see it. We have to ask ourselves a couple of questions before saying what Bob should do. Like :

What type of impact does Kovalev have on this team?

- Well, as far as I know, He led the team in scoring in our both last playoffs appearance (7pts in 6 games against Carolina, 11pts in 12 games against Boston/Philadelphia).

- He led the team in scoring 2 of the three last years (65pts in 69 games, 84pts in 82 games).

- He's the best PP player in the league.

- He can play both on the PK and on the PP, and on the PK, he's arguably our most efficient player.

- He's the most shapy player on this team.

- Since he's on this team, we have the best PP of the league.

- He displays a high level of leadership with the young Russian boys.

- The best season we had in the last 3 years matches with the best season he had. Our second best season matches with his 2nd best. Our worst season matches with his worst season. that's saying the impact he has on this team.

- The other players paid 4,5M per year are not as good as Kovy.

And, if you look at the market, the price range next year for his services is going to be even higher, as it goes up since the end of the lockout. With the cap going up, Kovalev is going to worth more than 6M next year. This year, he may be in the 5,5M range.

In my opinion, this is the time to re-sign him. This is a great idea. You've got to show some respect towards your best player.

Hockey wise, I think Tanguay is a more complete player, but he doesn't excel in what he does as Kovy does when he's on his game.
You know, if Kovalev was 5 years younger and we're lacking offensive talent this wouldn't even be up for debate. Really it depends on his price. If he's asking you to handcuff this team from signing your core next season, then I doubt BG that will budge.

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07-06-2008, 11:19 PM
  #262
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1998 Total NYR/Pit NHL 77 23 30 53 Not To Bad.
1999 Pittsburgh NHL 82 26 40 66 Good Year.
2000 Pittsburgh NHL 79 44 51 95 Awesome Season 40+ Goals. Nearly a 100 Points.
2001 Pittsburgh NHL 67 32 44 76 Over a PPG Season.
2002 Total Pit/NYR NHL 78 37 40 77 PPG Season. Played with Milan Kraft That Year.
2003 Total NYR/Mtl NHL 78 14 31 45 Bad Year.
2005 Montreal NHL 69 23 42 65 Lead the Habs In Points Both In The Reg. Season And Playoffs.
2006 Montreal NHL 73 18 29 47 Bad Year.
2007 Montreal NHL 82 35 49 84 Over a PPG 30+ Goals. Lead the Habs Both In The Reg. Season And Playoffs.

Now thats basically two bad season in about 10 years, yep really inconsistent. .9 PTS over almost 10 years.

Combine that with a .85 PTS Per Game for his career in the Playoffs. (40+ Goals)

Calling Kovalev an inconsistent player is almost as bad as that myth of him having *no heart lol*

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07-06-2008, 11:36 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
At 49 years old, I have better things to do with my time than correspond with someone who just spoke to me this rudely. You'll have to read my other posts to see my rebuttals to any points you make.
Ok...I was being a jack a**, I know you're not a baby. But it just seemed like you thought my post was directed towards Koivu or maybe how I was targetting him...it's not about not liking Koivu or Kovalev, I'm just not married to the idea - like you and some others here are - to brining either back, maybe someone else becomes available, or maybe someone from within steps up and we can look to fill holes elsewhere.

It's just that I find some people find the idea of parting ways with either of these player unfathomable, and i just don't agree with that.

In Kovalev, we have a player that many at this time last year, were trying to get rid of...and in Koivu, a player who IMO, didn't really have a great year...

I'd love for both of them to finish their careers as Habs, but I think it's unlikely...

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07-06-2008, 11:39 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Well I don't think you're a hater of either of them...

Just think that you kid yourself if you believe (considering the Habs organization and how BG works and that everybody of importance could fit very nicely under the cap) that the Habs won't resign both, as one is a long time captain and a lifer and has kept thios team together and has always been loyal and the other is extremely important to many aspects of our team. Koivu is the heart of this team and Kovy is the lungs, you can't do without either, not until the youth has more experience.

You tell Baseballcoach not to act like a child, but you are doing exactly that by not wanting to understand the reasons why it is most likely that they will keep both of them, even for 3 more years.
Oh I understand it...I just don't agree with it

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07-06-2008, 11:43 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's why we're talking about an extension. Players that agree to extensions before the end of their contracts or hitting the open market, are usually payed a lot less than UFAs.

I don't think Kovalev would have asked to sign an extension before the Start of training camp if hitting the jackpot was what he was looking for. I also don't see Koivu getting anything more than 5M, but that depends on next season I guess.

The only one I do see possible bouncing on out of here is Tanguay.
I don't think Kovalev is trying to hit the jackpot...just get paid what he thinks he's worth, and IMO, Kovalev after having the year he had, is worth just as much as Tanguay is making, if not more and I'd be shocked if his agent wouldn't want at least that as a starting point...

I got a hard time believing a guy who just finished in the top 12 in scoring and could conceiveably do it again for the next 2 or 3 years, would command a salary of 5M...no matter how loyal he is to the Habs

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07-07-2008, 01:32 AM
  #266
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I know how everyone is feeling.I'm scared to lose Kovy but i'm scared also that he might become a burden for the habs due to salary caps and his obvious aging ..

Kovalev that my favorite player in the nhl.But geez that such a hard decision to make.I would not imagine to see him playing for another team.Imagine Kovalev with a Mapleleafs jersey! Or a Bruins Jersey! It's would be unbearable!! It's a Love story that we have the fans with Kovy!

But if love love us! He won't ask for 6 millions / 3 years . But the reality is hard to accept sometime.Which i dobut will ever happens.

Sundin.Vancouver offered him 10 millions .If Kovy got another 80 + pts season.Oh my god. Don't expect him to ask for 5 millions. Because he will certainly got a team offering him a 7 millions contract for 2 years.

Kovalev played 82 game this season.He's not Injury prone. He had his best season at 35 and never missed a games! He's heatly .. More even so than Mats Sundin.

If Kovalev struggle next season.He will quit because the so nice fans won't want him back.But if he do another 80 pts. HAHA , don't expect him to stay for 4.5 millions and 1 years contract.

I have a bad feeling! That might be last kovy season with the habs.

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07-07-2008, 01:45 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I think he can **** off.


You made me spill my cola.

By the way I think people have reacted so strongly because they thought Kovy was demanding to be re-signed like a threat: "sign me for 3 years before this season start or else".

But we don't know what the situation is.


Last edited by Kimota: 07-07-2008 at 02:02 AM.
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07-07-2008, 02:00 AM
  #268
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In truth Kovy by last year's season would deserve 5 or 6 on the market. But we know about his inconsistencies. Let's wait at the end of the season. And if he plays as well as last year he could get easily 5.5. Then you give him 5.3 and 5 for his two other seasons.

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07-07-2008, 02:11 AM
  #269
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I don't think Kovalev is trying to hit the jackpot...just get paid what he thinks he's worth, and IMO, Kovalev after having the year he had, is worth just as much as Tanguay is making, if not more and I'd be shocked if his agent wouldn't want at least that as a starting point...

I got a hard time believing a guy who just finished in the top 12 in scoring and could conceiveably do it again for the next 2 or 3 years, would command a salary of 5M...no matter how loyal he is to the Habs
I made a post in the previous page about how much it would cost us next year to keep them all. I gave a raise to every player, some more significant than others.
People go crazy in thinking we won't be able to sign most of our players next year. If that were true, we'd have a hard time explaining how Drury-Gomez-Naslund-Redden-Rozival-Lundqvist can all fit under the cap with the rest of their roster.

Taking into consideration the cap will raise once again by 6M(yearly average cap raise since the lockout), we'd be able to keep them all.
Those were the salaries I came up with:

Kovalev 6M
Tanguay 5.75M
Koivu 5M
Komi 4.2M
Plek 4.1M
Higgins 3.5M

Those are salaries I see given to these players at the end of next year. There would still be about 4M left but Lats and Chipchura are also going to be up for renegotiations.
I included Sundin at 7.5M to get to those numbers. So without him, we'd have an even bigger possibility of keeping them all.

Notice how I put Kovalev at 6M.

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07-07-2008, 02:44 AM
  #270
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07-07-2008, 02:47 AM
  #271
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As for Kovy, he's certainly worth keeping, at the market rate. He seems to have turned a corner with Carbonneau, in large part thanks to his new linemates and to a his buddies on the powerplay.

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07-07-2008, 05:01 AM
  #272
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Yea...that's why I want to keep Koivu and Kovalev....
Not sure you understood my post quite right..

I feel Koivu and Kovalev are key pieces for us to win that Championship.
I DID understand your point.

I was basically agreeing with you and summing up why in one sentence. Maybe I should have simply started with the word "Agreed", and continued with what I wrote.

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07-07-2008, 05:27 AM
  #273
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Ok...I was being a jack a**, I know you're not a baby. But it just seemed like you thought my post was directed towards Koivu or maybe how I was targetting him...it's not about not liking Koivu or Kovalev, I'm just not married to the idea - like you and some others here are - to brining either back, maybe someone else becomes available, or maybe someone from within steps up and we can look to fill holes elsewhere.

It's just that I find some people find the idea of parting ways with either of these player unfathomable, and i just don't agree with that.

In Kovalev, we have a player that many at this time last year, were trying to get rid of...and in Koivu, a player who IMO, didn't really have a great year...

I'd love for both of them to finish their careers as Habs, but I think it's unlikely...
If it were REALLY true that you would "love" for both of them to finish their careers as Habs, then it seems to me you would be really HAPPY when one of them is rumoured to be asking for an extension to his contract rather than playing the UFA game at July 1 2009. You would be hoping the rumour is TRUE!

To me it is not at all unfathomable that the Habs future will eventually not include both of these players. Indeed, it is INEVITABLE, sooner or later. However, a team that has a great core of young PRODUCTIVE players shuld be looking for every way to RETAIN their veteran leaders (read: Yzerman and Lidstrom, Beliveau and H. Richard, and other examples) because TOGETHER, those youngbloods and the grizzled vets can often WIN.

I'm not talking about holding onto players until the time they become a liability on the ice and everyone is embarassed to watch them play. But I AM in favour of continuing to re-sign the veterans even as their role and ice time diminshes a bit.

Right now, Kovalev is not someone who needs to retire, and neither is Saku Koivu. Koivu might no longer be a #1 centre for most contending teams, but he is still really VALUABLE. Heck, he got 9 points in 7 playoff games just a couple of months ago!!

As I said yesterday, due to the silly CBA rules, it is a risk to sign Kovy at age 35 to a longer-term deal. But I am absolutely NOT against spending money on Kovy or any other productive player. That's what the salary budget is FOR! I am personally ready to sign Kovalev to one-year deals forking over LOTS OF MONEY for as long as he is productive and earns it. I hope he plays so well that he deserves 7M, 8M, 9M even. Though I didn't say it, I could consider longer deals if they come with a significant discount for the additional season(s). I'll do some math and suggest something in a bit. However, if I were in Kovy's shoes, I might rather get several big one-year deals.

As for Saku, since he is NOT 35 years old yet, I would favour signing him to a 2 or three year extension or whatever he feels would be his last contract, perhaps at gradually decreasing salary numbers.

And to those who are worried that we cannot fit these signings and raises for the young core under the cap, I disagree and have demonstrated in several posts how we can keep everyone (or have plenty of money to replace them if their performances slip).

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07-07-2008, 05:27 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I don't think Kovalev is trying to hit the jackpot...just get paid what he thinks he's worth, and IMO, Kovalev after having the year he had, is worth just as much as Tanguay is making, if not more and I'd be shocked if his agent wouldn't want at least that as a starting point...

I got a hard time believing a guy who just finished in the top 12 in scoring and could conceiveably do it again for the next 2 or 3 years, would command a salary of 5M...no matter how loyal he is to the Habs
look at most players making what Tanguay makes (-/+5M$), and if that's all Kovalev is asking I want him signed NOW...

just take a look, Kovalev produces more (even in a bad year) than most players making in the 5M$ range...

most 50+ pts players make 4M$ nowaways, and that's something Kovalev did (almost) in his worst season ever (2 seasons ago) so...

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07-07-2008, 05:52 AM
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GOD! There's actually people that are complaining about Kovalev...Seriously, that he's gonna be good or not that much, I seriously can't see the Habs without Kovalev at this point..

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