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RUMOR: Kovalev wants a 3-year extension before camp

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Old
07-07-2008, 06:45 AM
  #276
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
1998 Total NYR/Pit NHL 77 23 30 53 Not To Bad.
1999 Pittsburgh NHL 82 26 40 66 Good Year.
2000 Pittsburgh NHL 79 44 51 95 Awesome Season 40+ Goals. Nearly a 100 Points.
2001 Pittsburgh NHL 67 32 44 76 Over a PPG Season.
2002 Total Pit/NYR NHL 78 37 40 77 PPG Season. Played with Milan Kraft That Year.
2003 Total NYR/Mtl NHL 78 14 31 45 Bad Year.
2005 Montreal NHL 69 23 42 65 Lead the Habs In Points Both In The Reg. Season And Playoffs.
2006 Montreal NHL 73 18 29 47 Bad Year.
2007 Montreal NHL 82 35 49 84 Over a PPG 30+ Goals. Lead the Habs Both In The Reg. Season And Playoffs.

Now thats basically two bad season in about 10 years, yep really inconsistent. .9 PTS over almost 10 years.

Combine that with a .85 PTS Per Game for his career in the Playoffs. (40+ Goals)

Calling Kovalev an inconsistent player is almost as bad as that myth of him having *no heart lol*
I don't know what's at work here. Perhaps your nickname is indicative of a man-crush on Kovalev, perhaps you failed basic math, or perhaps you just don't know the definition of "consistency" because what you poster above should lead anyone with a shred of logic to conclude that Alex Kovalev is, indeed, extremely inconsistent.

His statistical output per season is all over the map.

That's not even taking into account his actual play on the ice. Where again, we're talking about a player who is capable of the best and the worse.

Alex Kovalev is a very, very inconsistent player.

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07-07-2008, 07:09 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler View Post
I don't know what's at work here. Perhaps your nickname is indicative of a man-crush on Kovalev, perhaps you failed basic math, or perhaps you just don't know the definition of "consistency" because what you poster above should lead anyone with a shred of logic to conclude that Alex Kovalev is, indeed, extremely inconsistent.

His statistical output per season is all over the map.

That's not even taking into account his actual play on the ice. Where again, we're talking about a player who is capable of the best and the worse.

Alex Kovalev is a very, very inconsistent player.
I think a key with Kovalev is understanding what was going on during the good years, and ditrto for the not so good. I believe he needs to be part of the solution as easy as that sounds. I was very impressed by what I think happened going into last year. As I interpreeted the scenario, Kovalev was sensitive to his reputation going down the toilet when he felt he was mis-used. Gainey held up a mirror, like any parent or person with authority should and said, Alex old buddy, you're a horse and it isn't up to Carbo, your liunemates the media, it's up to you.

Kovalev seemed to get it and was a pleasure to watch last year, probably the most enjoyable single season performance by a Hab in quite some time.

So, your point about inconsistency is very valid, but has to be weighed on how the team reads him right now. I'm sure Gainey can tell by the tone of any negotiation whether he has the right feel about him.

When you look at the experience of the people trying to gauge Kovy, it'll be interesting to see how things unfold. The staff's quality can be debated but they have a lot of years on some great teams, and I think they should have insight into whether a guy's cashing in or looking to continue what started last year.

I guess Ganey has an answer and it's related to what it costs to keep the guys after 08-09, and whether a Sundin or Sundin lite is signed.

Purely as a hockey fan, not an armchair capologist, I don't care about past bad years, I want to see a few more like last year. How to do that though is where these guys earn the big bucks.

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07-07-2008, 07:17 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
If it were REALLY true that you would "love" for both of them to finish their careers as Habs, then it seems to me you would be really HAPPY when one of them is rumoured to be asking for an extension to his contract rather than playing the UFA game at July 1 2009. You would be hoping the rumour is TRUE!
).
Who said i'm not happy about it? Right now, I feel no ways about it because its just a rumour...if it's true, then I totally understand Kovalev and wouldn't have a problem if the if Habs decided to give him an extension...

You mentionned players like Yzerman, Lidstrom, Béliveau, Richard as veteran leaders who were retained...I don't personally put either of Koivu or Kovalev in their category as players or leaders, so...that's why i'm not so gun-ho on extending both of them at this point...

I also agree that Koivu is still a valuable player, however, I do think that Plekanec is a better player right now, and *IF* another solution, preferably a big center, becomes available, then it might be time to consider going in a different direction...

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07-07-2008, 07:28 AM
  #279
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signing him to an extension could be risky, but at the same time it could be great if he plays like he did last season. You never know which Kovalev will show up though

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07-07-2008, 07:34 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Who said i'm not happy about it? Right now, I feel no ways about it because its just a rumour...if it's true, then I totally understand Kovalev and wouldn't have a problem if the if Habs decided to give him an extension...

You mentionned players like Yzerman, Lidstrom, Béliveau, Richard as veteran leaders who were retained...I don't personally put either of Koivu or Kovalev in their category as players or leaders, so...that's why i'm not so gun-ho on extending both of them at this point...

I also agree that Koivu is still a valuable player, however, I do think that Plekanec is a better player right now, and *IF* another solution, preferably a big center, becomes available, then it might be time to consider going in a different direction...
There's better player and there's player who comes thru when things look bleak. Plekanec will be quite a player when he reaches Saku in that category, but I know you aren't arguing that point.

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07-07-2008, 08:13 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Bermy View Post
signing him to an extension could be risky, but at the same time it could be great if he plays like he did last season. You never know which Kovalev will show up though
Exactly, if the lazy one shows up then we're pretty much doomed.

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07-07-2008, 08:37 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler View Post
I don't know what's at work here. Perhaps your nickname is indicative of a man-crush on Kovalev, perhaps you failed basic math, or perhaps you just don't know the definition of "consistency" because what you poster above should lead anyone with a shred of logic to conclude that Alex Kovalev is, indeed, extremely inconsistent.

His statistical output per season is all over the map.

That's not even taking into account his actual play on the ice. Where again, we're talking about a player who is capable of the best and the worse.

Alex Kovalev is a very, very inconsistent player.
You know, Vlad, MOST players are as consistent or inconsistent as Kovy over so many years.

AS far as I can tell, the FOUR seasons in a row beginning in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 were all pretty good. 2003 (actually the year 03-04) was Kovy's WORST of his career. But it was a blessing in disguise for us because it made him available! AFter struggling to adapt a bit, he finally blossomed in the playoffs with Koivu and contributed VERY nicely, despite being criticized for the play on which his hand was slashed in overtime and Souray made like a pylon. In 05-06 Kovy was virtually a PPG player and had the fans quite behind him.

2006-2007 was only the second poor season out of eight for Kovalev, but let us not forget that he tried to play through an elbow injury that robbed him of the ability to BOTH stickhandle and shoot! This type of thing happens to many players. Go back to Jean Beliveau's career http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...?pid%5B%5D=297 and you'll see great seasons followed by much less productive seasons, yet NO ONE complains that Believeau was "very" inconsistent!

07-08 was an impressive rebound year for Kovalev but I almost get the feeling from some posters here that they wish he hadn't done so well in order that he could not make bigger salary requests. I don't get that feeling from you, though.

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07-07-2008, 09:15 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Let not overreact here.... we're paying him 4.5 million now.... how much does he want... How dead set is he on the extension being three years... that is the questions we must ask first....

If he is willing to settle at 10 million for 2 years + a team option for the third year at 5million more.... I'd do it.
yeah id be up for this, anymore and he would need to wait, so that i can see how he does this season..

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07-07-2008, 09:25 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
2006-2007 was only the second poor season out of eight for Kovalev,
You always hear the crap about him only showing up 1 game out of 4. I think that players like him can't always find a way to impose what they do on a game. It's not like Begin, where you simply have to skate harder, crash and bang more often.

I think a staff has to understand under what situations he thrives and under what he stagnates and react accordingly. I think last year's situation where he was in a mentor role for the young guys that he shared a language with helped a lot. He had to show that he was worth being in that role. The team has to be inclusive of him in how they do things for him to play with the passion they need.

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07-07-2008, 09:29 AM
  #285
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Until we know what kind of $$$$ are attached to a proposed 3 year extension, I dunno how to react. If Kovy wants a three year $15M extension as an assurance that he is going to remain in Montreal, I'm good with that. In fact I'm happy.

If he wants to try and maximize his good year last year, and cash in on all the crazy contracts that have been handed out over the past few weeks, then I am disappointed.

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07-07-2008, 11:18 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Until we know what kind of $$$$ are attached to a proposed 3 year extension, I dunno how to react. If Kovy wants a three year $15M extension as an assurance that he is going to remain in Montreal, I'm good with that. In fact I'm happy.

If he wants to try and maximize his good year last year, and cash in on all the crazy contracts that have been handed out over the past few weeks, then I am disappointed.
Game, set and match. I really don't know how anyboyd could disagree with that statement. It's all about a great mix between term and money.

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07-07-2008, 01:16 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Until we know what kind of $$$$ are attached to a proposed 3 year extension, I dunno how to react. If Kovy wants a three year $15M extension as an assurance that he is going to remain in Montreal, I'm good with that. In fact I'm happy.

If he wants to try and maximize his good year last year, and cash in on all the crazy contracts that have been handed out over the past few weeks, then I am disappointed.
Not that I disagree, but i strongly doubt Kovalev's objective here is to cash in.
I don't think Kovalev would have much to worry about if that was the case. Even Ryder after a horrible season was given a raise. Rolston at Kovalev's age was given a 4year/20M deal. If Sundin got 2y/20M.
I know every one of these players are different, but still. One thing they all have is WAYYY too much money.

If cashing in was his main goal, he'd wait to become an UFA and get crazy offers. Even if he did have a bad season next year, he'd still get some very good offers. All better than the one he'd probably receive from Gainey today.
Let's not forget that Mother Russia would certainly make another completely ridiculous offer a la Jagr.

I think Kovalev genuinely wants to finish his career here and sign his last contract to get it over with.
Gainey is not one to over pay either, I doubt he'd sign Kovalev to more than 6M/per year

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07-07-2008, 03:23 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler View Post
I don't know what's at work here. Perhaps your nickname is indicative of a man-crush on Kovalev, perhaps you failed basic math, or perhaps you just don't know the definition of "consistency" because what you poster above should lead anyone with a shred of logic to conclude that Alex Kovalev is, indeed, extremely inconsistent.

His statistical output per season is all over the map.

That's not even taking into account his actual play on the ice. Where again, we're talking about a player who is capable of the best and the worse.

Alex Kovalev is a very, very inconsistent player.
All over the map? Hes had two bad season, other than that hes a PPG player on a period of ten years, if that is inconsistent bring me more of those players.

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07-07-2008, 03:46 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
All over the map? Hes had two bad season, other than that hes a PPG player on a period of ten years, if that is inconsistent bring me more of those players.
He likes to complain about Kovalev because it's one of BG's best move.

Vlad, you're lucky you didn't get reported for the "man-crush" insult you made to KingKovalev, unlike you did when I said the same of you with Burke last year.

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07-07-2008, 04:09 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
All over the map? Hes had two bad season, other than that hes a PPG player on a period of ten years, if that is inconsistent bring me more of those players.
53pts in 77GP isn't good either, so thats 3Bad seasons.
If you want to be really critical considering his talent, 66Pts over 82GP is quite a disappointment as well.

66pts in 81GP was extremely disappointing for Vinny Lecavalier, even when he posted 75pts people were saying he was disappointing.
If Crosby has around 80ish points next year, it'll be a bad season for him to.

66pts for Kovalev is not that good at all, but we can call it a mediocre season..

That's 3bad seasons with 1 mediocre one over 10years. It is inconsistent. Especially if we look at the fact this guy is part of the elite of the league in terms of raw talent.

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07-07-2008, 04:17 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
53pts in 77GP isn't good either, so thats 3Bad seasons.
If you want to be really critical considering his talent, 66Pts over 82GP is quite a disappointment as well.

66pts in 81GP was extremely disappointing for Vinny Lecavalier, even when he posted 75pts people were saying he was disappointing.
If Crosby has around 80ish points next year, it'll be a bad season for him to.

66pts for Kovalev is not that good at all, but we can call it a mediocre season..

That's 3bad seasons with 1 mediocre one over 10years. It is inconsistent. Especially if we look at the fact this guy is part of the elite of the league in terms of raw talent.
We all know Kovalev by now. He'll pull a Patty Marleau if he gets the fat contract. I'd rather use the money on someone else if possible.

Although I said that when they gave him the $4.5 mil contract and was completely wrong. I don't trust him with $6 mil though.

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07-07-2008, 04:23 PM
  #292
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We all know Kovalev by now. He'll pull a Patty Marleau if he gets the fat contract. I'd rather use the money on someone else if possible.
That's probably why he posted ppg production (65pts in 69games) right after he signed his contract.....

That's quite better than the horrible year Marleau had.

I agree that Kovy is not the most consistent player, but to say he'll do like Marleau is ridiculous and not supported by facts.

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07-07-2008, 04:34 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
53pts in 77GP isn't good either, so thats 3Bad seasons.
If you want to be really critical considering his talent, 66Pts over 82GP is quite a disappointment as well.

66pts in 81GP was extremely disappointing for Vinny Lecavalier, even when he posted 75pts people were saying he was disappointing.
If Crosby has around 80ish points next year, it'll be a bad season for him to.

66pts for Kovalev is not that good at all, but we can call it a mediocre season..

That's 3bad seasons with 1 mediocre one over 10years. It is inconsistent. Especially if we look at the fact this guy is part of the elite of the league in terms of raw talent.
Thing is, looking at all the signings this past season (especially since july 1st), looks like stats like theses are worthy of a 4.5 or 5M$ a year contract...

so, at +/- 5M$, I rather have him playing poorly and get that "many" points with a chance he'll do better than sign a guy who can put up 60-65 pts (no more) consistently...

I mean, players like Huselius or Langkow are worth 5M$ nowadays afterall...



That's the way it goes now in the NHL, you either overpay for such players or you do without... but doing without also means not having players on your team capable of 60, 70 or 80 pts a season...

and we all remember how good of a team we were when our best player(s) were in the 50 pts range don't we...

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07-07-2008, 04:41 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
That's probably why he posted ppg production (65pts in 69games) right after he signed his contract.....

That's quite better than the horrible year Marleau had.

I agree that Kovy is not the most consistent player, but to say he'll do like Marleau is ridiculous and not supported by facts.
I'm sure there are plenty of facts available for those inclined to look at his career record. He was hurt his second year and played well this past year (until the playoffs, when he was hurt again like everyone else).

I like him as long as he continues to work hard. I just don't expect that to happen after he gets his money. Hope I'm wrong. He's always been an underachiever.

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07-07-2008, 04:48 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Thing is, looking at all the signings this past season (especially since july 1st), looks like stats like theses are worthy of a 4.5 or 5M$ a year contract...

so, at +/- 5M$, I rather have him playing poorly and get that "many" points with a chance he'll do better than sign a guy who can put up 60-65 pts (no more) consistently...

I mean, players like Huselius or Langkow are worth 5M$ nowadays afterall...



That's the way it goes now in the NHL, you either overpay for such players or you do without... but doing without also means not having players on your team capable of 60, 70 or 80 pts a season...

and we all remember how good of a team we were when our best player(s) were in the 50 pts range don't we...

Add to this the fact that we can sign him outside the market without bidding against other teams and Kovy wants to stay, for his impact on the team and relative production, a similar contract to the previous (with less years to the contract) would be quite welcomed.

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07-07-2008, 04:51 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Thing is, looking at all the signings this past season (especially since july 1st), looks like stats like theses are worthy of a 4.5 or 5M$ a year contract...

so, at +/- 5M$, I rather have him playing poorly and get that "many" points with a chance he'll do better than sign a guy who can put up 60-65 pts (no more) consistently...

I mean, players like Huselius or Langkow are worth 5M$ nowadays afterall...

That's the way it goes now in the NHL, you either overpay for such players or you do without... but doing without also means not having players on your team capable of 60, 70 or 80 pts a season...

and we all remember how good of a team we were when our best player(s) were in the 50 pts range don't we...
Don't get me wrong, I want Kovalev signed. I wasn't trying to debate what money he's worth.

I just wanted to point out Kovalev had more than just 2 bad seasons.

Id extend him to max 6M.

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07-07-2008, 06:08 PM
  #297
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Don't get me wrong, I want Kovalev signed. I wasn't trying to debate what money he's worth.

I just wanted to point out Kovalev had more than just 2 bad seasons.

Id extend him to max 6M.
If 66 points is a bad season, then Patrick Marleau has, what, 8 TERRIBLE seasons out of 10? Well, he's making a whopping $6.3M and some of the same people who don't want to extend Kovalev are calling for the Habs to GIVE UP ASSETS in a trade to get Marleau!!

We can re-sign Kovalev (and Koivu and Tanguay) without giving up ANY assets!!

For the curious, Marleau has had one season of 32 points, 3 seasons of 40-48 points, 3 seasons of 52-57 points and two seasons of 78-86 points. VERY CONSISTENT!

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07-07-2008, 06:26 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
All over the map?
Well, yeah.

Here's the ppg, yearly:

1998 .688
1999 .805
2000 1.203
2001 1.134
2002 .987
2003 .577
2005 .942
2006 .644
2007 1.024

On a yearly basis, Alex Kovalev is everywhere between 47 and 99 points over an 82-game season. It's not a smooth curve either, nor does it go in a general direction. It keeps going up and down like crazy.

I don't know about you, but I tend to look at 20 points as being pretty drastic in the NHL. We're talking about a 52 point margin between his best and worse year and a completely unpredictable pattern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
Hes had two bad season, other than that hes a PPG player on a period of ten years, if that is inconsistent bring me more of those players.
The quality of the player and what you (or I) hope for him is one thing. His consistency is an entirely different subject.

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07-07-2008, 06:38 PM
  #299
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it all depends on cash,

if if not bad , do it,

keep him in the fold

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07-07-2008, 06:40 PM
  #300
Vlad The Impaler
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
He likes to complain about Kovalev because it's one of BG's best move.

Vlad, you're lucky you didn't get reported for the "man-crush" insult you made to KingKovalev, unlike you did when I said the same of you with Burke last year.
This is just classic stuff from you.

First, you ascribe false motives to me as usual, then you wonder why you're being reported and I ain't.

And nobody is complaining about Alex Kovalev. I am simply saying he is not consistent. Something which you say yourself on this thread. I mean, the stats (and his general play) don't lie. His production is all over the map.

Where it becomes relevant to this discussion is in evaluating where he fits in an organization, how he can contribute and how to compensate him.

Kovalev is the poster boy of inconsistency. It makes life more difficult when discussing contract length and number in a league where contracts are guaranteed.

That's pretty much all I want to point out. And I find it hilarious that you take offense at something you agree with and try to score cheap points once again...

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