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Old
02-18-2004, 11:51 AM
  #1
FlavorFlav
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Does it bother anyone...

That Ottawa seems to be able to pull the trigger on trades, and yet still the Habs sit on their hands???

It just seems to me that the Sens recognize a need, take action, and boom, do the deal. Simpson and Ray for toughness, now Bondra for the playoffs...and that's just in the last month. Looks a lot like a team gearing for the playoffs, making a serious run...

And NO, I am not one of those people who want a trade for the sake of trading players. But I do feel any team, no matter how great, always need tinkering. The Habs have had all the time in the world to work something out, for size up the middle, some defensive upgrading, etc. Now we find ourselves on a losing skid, looking for answers, with Buffalo eager to knock us out of playoff contention.

I just think SOME kind of upgrade could have been done by NOW...is it too little too late?

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02-18-2004, 12:01 PM
  #2
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Well there is one major difference between Ottawa us...they have a legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup. We don't. So for them shipping off a prospect to win now is a good idea. I don't think we are in the same boat at all and dumping prospects right now for 30 somethings....is a bad idea

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02-18-2004, 12:06 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorFlav
That Ottawa seems to be able to pull the trigger on trades, and yet still the Habs sit on their hands???

It just seems to me that the Sens recognize a need, take action, and boom, do the deal. Simpson and Ray for toughness, now Bondra for the playoffs...and that's just in the last month. Looks a lot like a team gearing for the playoffs, making a serious run...

And NO, I am not one of those people who want a trade for the sake of trading players. But I do feel any team, no matter how great, always need tinkering. The Habs have had all the time in the world to work something out, for size up the middle, some defensive upgrading, etc. Now we find ourselves on a losing skid, looking for answers, with Buffalo eager to knock us out of playoff contention.

I just think SOME kind of upgrade could have been done by NOW...is it too little too late?
Bondra is 36, the Sens have a team to challenge for the cup. He makes sense for Ottawa, but not Montreal.

Ottawa also has the depth, we certainly aren't going to give up 2nd round picks at this point.

If we were in a position to go deep in the playoffs, Bondra would be a nice fit. I don't think there are a lot of players available that fit Montreal's needs. You shouldn't trade, for the sake of trading... you must improve your team.

Gainey's silence, and lack of activity can mean a couple of things:

1. Gillette has told him no more payroll.
2. Bob is happy with this team [snicker]
3. There are no players that fit our needs available.
4. Bob doesn't think we can make the playoffs.

Who knows.. but the Sens have the money now to acquire talent when needed. They never had that before.

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02-18-2004, 12:07 PM
  #4
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dumping prospects right now for 30 somethings....is a bad idea[/QUOTE]

Exactly. You didnt see Ottawa trading away youth, when they were developing all their current stars. We are two years away from trading an up and comming Ryan OByrne for a forward to fill in the missing piece of the puzzle. I just used Ryan because in two years he might be in Hamilton and on the verge of being a Hab.

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02-18-2004, 12:07 PM
  #5
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It doesn't bother me in the least. Slow and steady wins the race (or cup). I've already noticed the debate raging amongst Sens fans whether or not they gave up too much. I don't know a lot about Brooks Laich, but apparently he was up there amongst Ottawa prospects. As stated above, we're not in the same position as Senators; we're still at the acquiring and developing prospects mode IMO.

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02-18-2004, 12:15 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakced
Well there is one major difference between Ottawa us...they have a legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup. We don't. So for them shipping off a prospect to win now is a good idea. I don't think we are in the same boat at all and dumping prospects right now for 30 somethings....is a bad idea
what is this BS about having a legitamate chance to win the Stanley Cup, this is getting ridiculous, did Minnesota or Anaheim had a legitamate chance last year? The question should be "do we have a legitamate chance to make the playoffs this year?" Yes Since when this looser attitude "I can't win the cup this year so I am not going to improve my team, I better play safe, stick with players I have right now fans, in Montreal are used with a non playoff team anyway" I am not saying that we have to trade our future for a chance this year, but things can be done, we have similar player in Hamilton. We need an offensive defenceman a la Gonchar to help our PP, a sniper to play with Koivu and Zed at least. We gotta believe in our chances till the end of the season!!!!

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02-18-2004, 12:23 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs

1. Gillette has told him no more payroll.
2. Bob is happy with this team [snicker]
3. There are no players that fit our needs available.
4. Bob doesn't think we can make the playoffs.
wtf , the dealine is in march btw .

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02-18-2004, 12:25 PM
  #8
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Don't for a second believe that Gainey is sitting on his hands riding out the year. I'm sure he has made phone calls, inquires and even offer for players to help us out this year but he probabely hasn't wanted to part with what teams wanted from us. I'm sure Gainey #1 priority right now is to get this team in the playoffs this year.

Think about it. Would you have traded Higgins for Bondra???

Think about what these teams want from us for their vets that could help us out. Any team Gainey contacts is going to want one of our prime prospects i.e. Higgins, Perezhogin, Kastitsyn, Komisarek etc. And don't think that Hainsey and Hossa's value is as high as it used to be. The fact that we are questioning them means other teams are questioning them as prospects as well.

We can't afford to make a panic trade to help us this year if it is something we are going to regret for years and years to come.

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02-18-2004, 12:27 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
what is this BS about having a legitamate chance to win the Stanley Cup, this is getting ridiculous, did Minnesota or Anaheim had a legitamate chance last year? The question should be "do we have a legitamate chance to make the playoffs this year?" Yes Since when this looser attitude "I can't win the cup this year so I am not going to improve my team, I better play safe, stick with players I have right now fans, in Montreal are used with a non playoff team anyway" I am not saying that we have to trade our future for a chance this year, but things can be done, we have similar player in Hamilton. We need an offensive defenceman a la Gonchar to help our PP, a sniper to play with Koivu and Zed at least. We gotta believe in our chances till the end of the season!!!!
Well, this is exactly my point. We are in playoff contention for only the 2nd time in about a decade, and everyone is writing the team off AGAIN, saying it is pointless to make a run for the cup, saying next year, next year, the year after the year after next, we will be great. Why are we always waiting? I guess my point is we have holes in this team, why are they not being addressed? And no, I'm not into unloading a bunch of prospects for old guys, but solutions can be found.

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02-18-2004, 12:30 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Don't for a second believe that Gainey is sitting on his hands riding out the year. I'm sure he has made phone calls, inquires and even offer for players to help us out this year but he probabely hasn't wanted to part with what teams wanted from us. I'm sure Gainey #1 priority right now is to get this team in the playoffs this year.

Think about it. Would you have traded Higgins for Bondra???

Think about what these teams want from us for their vets that could help us out. Any team Gainey contacts is going to want one of our prime prospects i.e. Higgins, Perezhogin, Kastitsyn, Komisarek etc. And don't think that Hainsey and Hossa's value is as high as it used to be. The fact that we are questioning them means other teams are questioning them as prospects as well.

We can't afford to make a panic trade to help us this year if it is something we are going to regret for years and years to come.
Nope I wouldn’t have traded Higgins for Bondra...I wouldn’t have traded for Bondra at all.

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Old
02-18-2004, 12:31 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorFlav
Well, this is exactly my point. We are in playoff contention for only the 2nd time in about a decade, and everyone is writing the team off AGAIN, saying it is pointless to make a run for the cup, saying next year, next year, the year after the year after next, we will be great. Why are we always waiting? I guess my point is we have holes in this team, why are they not being addressed? And no, I'm not into unloading a bunch of prospects for old guys, but solutions can be found.
Nobody said it was pointless to make a run for the playoffs. But is it worth it to trade good prospect just for the playoffs... Bob probably is trying to make a trade, he certainly ain't sitting in his office doing nothing. You make is sound so easy, no other g.m. wants are players. need two people to tango my friend.

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02-18-2004, 12:37 PM
  #12
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Just face it... We're stuck with a OK team.. and thats all....Face it...It sucks to be a Habs fan during this time of year...

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02-18-2004, 01:07 PM
  #13
crakced
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
what is this BS about having a legitamate chance to win the Stanley Cup, this is getting ridiculous, did Minnesota or Anaheim had a legitamate chance last year? The question should be "do we have a legitamate chance to make the playoffs this year?" Yes Since when this looser attitude "I can't win the cup this year so I am not going to improve my team, I better play safe, stick with players I have right now fans, in Montreal are used with a non playoff team anyway" I am not saying that we have to trade our future for a chance this year, but things can be done, we have similar player in Hamilton. We need an offensive defenceman a la Gonchar to help our PP, a sniper to play with Koivu and Zed at least. We gotta believe in our chances till the end of the season!!!!
Well people think differently. You apparently are ready to mortage the future to win now. I on the other hand am tired of the short term stop gap fixes and am willing to take some lumps to get this team to mature from within and progress to the point where Ottawa is. If you think we are just as good as Ottawa...well I have to disagree at this point in time. Three years from now we may well be, but not right now.

And by the way, I am not giving up on the playoffs. I just think we are going to have to win with what we have, that's all. I don't see any big changes coming, so we better make due for now with what we have.

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02-18-2004, 01:10 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firthbird
Just face it... We're stuck with a OK team.. and thats all....Face it...It sucks to be a Habs fan during this time of year...
What a fascinating attitude.

Personally, I love being a Hab fan at this time of year. I get to watch the team try to work out of their problems and see how things develop as the rest of the season moves along. I get to enjoy watching the youth grow and kids like Komisarek gradually work their way into a permanent full-time position with the big club, perhaps making more and more big plays as the year goes on. I get to enjoy the progress that Ryder continues to make - you know, the kid who was in the ECHL last year and had almost lost hope in making the NHL? I get to watch Theo struggle through the hard times and, in all likelyhood, find his game and then start bailing the Habs out again.

Mostly, I get to watch the Habs play hockey and either win games to make the playoffs, lose games to break hearts, or perhaps eventually, win games to knock others out of playoff positions or overall position. I like being a Hab fan at every time of the year - but I guess I'm not really choosy.

I knew before this season started that the Habs were going to probably be on the outside of the playoff picture looking in, and the fact that it's the opposite right now is a bonus to me. In fact, the only thing about this Hab season that's bothered me is from the fans aspect. It's such a shame that Montreal fans happen to include some of the worst fans in pro sports.

I've watched every minute of every game and will continue to do so until the season ends. Naturally watching losses isn't as great as wins, though I have to say there have been some wins that have been pathetic and some losses that have seen the boys playing excellent hockey. It's been a fascinating year and has shown some very, very positive glimpses of the future. Souray was quoted as saying he thought the Habs were much closer to the Cup than he'd previously thought earlier this year. I tend to agree. This team is in pretty excellent shape, as far as I'm concerned.

Sure, there are players that need to go and situations that need to be resolved, but we have a core of solid guys and a pile of youth that is the envy of hockey. As the year develops we're seeing more and more potential - if you know where to look. The fact that Gainey has kept the farm club together is just smart thinking, if you ask me. Get the kids to learn to win together and not develop that losing attitude...

I don't see us as 'stuck' with anything. What I see is a pile of potential under a few guys who need to be cleaned out and replaced - which will happen over time.

ACF

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02-18-2004, 01:13 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakced
Well people think differently. You apparently are ready to mortage the future to win now. I on the other hand am tired of the short term stop gap fixes and am willing to take some lumps to get this team to mature from within and progress to the point where Ottawa is. If you think we are just as good as Ottawa...well I have to disagree at this point in time. Three years from now we may well be, but not right now.

And by the way, I am not giving up on the playoffs. I just think we are going to have to win with what we have, that's all. I don't see any big changes coming, so we better make due for now with what we have.
If you bothered to read my post you shouldn't have read it between the lines...I clearly said that I didn't want to mortgage the future to win now.

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02-18-2004, 01:51 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
If you bothered to read my post you shouldn't have read it between the lines...I clearly said that I didn't want to mortgage the future to win now.
How, then, do you propose we aquire Gonchar or a sniper to play with Koivu as you suggested?

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02-18-2004, 01:56 PM
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How, then, do you propose we aquire Gonchar or a sniper to play with Koivu as you suggested?
Yes!

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02-18-2004, 02:13 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
Yes!
He was asking you a question. What are you going to trade to aquire those guys?

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02-18-2004, 02:15 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
Yes!
It wasn't a yes or no question.

How do we accomplish this?

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