HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Umberger signed to four-year deal

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2008, 07:24 AM
  #76
Skraut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Enter city here
Posts: 10,344
vCash: 500
The team is definitely built for the physical grind of the playoffs.

Now they just need to get there.

Skraut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2008, 07:25 AM
  #77
LetsGOJackets!!
Registered User
 
LetsGOJackets!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 2,542
vCash: 500
Great point on Methot guys..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casework View Post
As always, we're on the same wavelength. Love your thinking. Torres will probably play opening night on the 2nd line, but even Hitch won't be able to hold Jake back this year.

Edit: I do agree with DSL on the Methot point. I keep wondering just when is this guy going to get his shot. OKT is a great guy to keep around the team and in the locker room, but Methot could be a beast if we just give him a chance.
I would love to see Methot & OK pair up and have about a 10 year run of kicking booty.. That would be home grown defense..been waiting for these guys to grab the ring!!

LetsGOJackets!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2008, 04:11 PM
  #78
FlaggerX
Registered User
 
FlaggerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Columbus
Posts: 1,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneinen12 View Post
I realize this question has basically been answered, but if you'd like a little more info here's a link to our cap (though i can't promise it is 100% completely accurate).

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=CLB
I hope their estimate of cap room is correct. If so, once LeClaire is in the house we might be able to do something when other teams dump salaries for cap room. Still, this team looks a lot tougher than the last year's, which was the best Jackets team ever.

FlaggerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-31-2008, 07:54 AM
  #79
Skraut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Enter city here
Posts: 10,344
vCash: 500
Old news, but nice read From RJ's hometown paper

http://www.yourmonroeville.com/times...hilly-columbus

Skraut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2008, 07:00 PM
  #80
JagerPuck
Registered User
 
JagerPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the 215
Country: United States
Posts: 2,588
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JagerPuck
Ya got my boy. Damnit.
I guess you can have his nicknames too:
Umbergalur
Mmmmmmmmmm.. Burger.

JagerPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2008, 12:39 AM
  #81
Robert
Foligno family
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KY & Lime Lake NY
Country: United States
Posts: 30,160
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Old news, but nice read From RJ's hometown paper

http://www.yourmonroeville.com/times...hilly-columbus
Excellent read. Just as I expected, RJ is pumped to play in C-bus.

I love this dude and wanted him here badly but I'm yet to be convinced he is a top line center, but we can pray-ya never know. Bottomline, unless Brassard is the second coming RJ is all we have-I hope he gets it done.

I have a feeling Philly fans where disappointed when he left them-he was stellar in the playoffs last season.

Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 03:41 PM
  #82
mikedifr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Excellent read. Just as I expected, RJ is pumped to play in C-bus.

I love this dude and wanted him here badly but I'm yet to be convinced he is a top line center, but we can pray-ya never know. Bottomline, unless Brassard is the second coming RJ is all we have-I hope he gets it done.

I have a feeling Philly fans where disappointed when he left them-he was stellar in the playoffs last season.
Philly fan here...I am disappointed to see him go, but it isnt a huge loss. It was just a cap casualty here in Philly. We are really deep at forward, especially on the wing which is what he played here. We needed to spend that money elsewhere.

He made great strides last year in his skating and his defensive play, although at wing. Hopefully he can translate that ability to center. He makes great passes in tight spaces and has a nice shot when he uses it. He became more of a playmaker last year which might be good for his move back to center with Nash.

Most in Philly see him as a 2nd line winger tops, I always felt he might have the potential to move back to center. I am not sure he is a #1 center per say, however, he has above average playmaking ability. If he builds some chemistry with Nash and can hold his own defensively at the center position, it might just work out, at least until Brassard develops into that #1 as some see him doing.

The only complaint I ever had about him was that I wish he would use his size a little more and play more agressively.

Oh, and he was one of the few to speak out in support of Hitch when he was fired here so you know he likes playing for him. Between that and his desire to play in Columbus, it could be a steal.

mikedifr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 11:06 PM
  #83
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
You have a heart and soul type of player in Umberger. Great signing.

I had heard that there was consideration being given to moving him in as a centre for Rick Nash. That could work out very well as Umberger has great vision and he is a superb passer with a pretty fair shot as well. Also for a big guy he can really move.

You could have a very scary powerplay with Nash and Umberger crashing the net.

Hitchcock who is not known for praising players very often once compared Umberger to a young Joe Nieuwendyck during his time with the Philly Phantoms.

Umberger is the answer to the question, which botched negotiation shows that Brian Burke is an complete idiot.

Knowledgeable Vancouver fans are now shaking their heads over the loss of Umberger due to Burke's stubborness.

Here is a little background on how he got away from the Canucks and how he developed as a pro.

Quote:
Umberger Redux

An in-depth look at the Umberger saga and how Burkie tried to re-write history (yet again). Umberger and Lawton both were very clear on numerous occasions they wanted to get a deal done in Vancouver. Umberger did not leave school to sit out the year.

Once Burkie embarked on his testosterone fueled path leading to pyhrric victory he pretty much forced Umberger to go UFA - at least he had that option. That is what makes the whole episode so mind-boggling. if you decide to go toe to toe with a draftee, why pick one of the very rare ones who have the UFA card to play?

Burkie threw up so much dust and dirt to try to obscure what really happned with Umberger it takes a little research and some detail to help people sort it all out. Also since research and writing is integral to what I do, it is pretty simple for me.

At least I have access to newspaper archives and I can show what actually happened as opposed to Burkie's attempt to re-write history and bury it in bafflegab and ex post facto rationalizations. Yet another disturbing episode from the Brian Burke Reign of Error in Vancouver.

Although Nonis handled many of the contract negotiations, this one was 100% pure unadulterated Burkie - all Burkie, all the time. If he had left it in Nonis' hands IMHO the signing would have been done. Burke did not like Brian Lawton and used that dislike to take shots at both Lawton and Umberger. When you let your emotions get in the way of doing business you are just asking for trouble.

Let's take a look at what happened:

Umberger was asking for exactly what other players drafted before and after him received.

It was typical Burke - run down the player and attack the agent instead of doing a deal. Umberger was only asking for what other drafts in his round received - $1.13 million.

We know the offer from the Canucks because Umberger and Brian Lawton, Umberger's agent released the contract proposal after become frustrated with Burkie's misrepresentations on the offer. The offer was $625,000, $650,000 and $675,000 base salaries with a $700,000 signing bonus over three years. It has been reported in various media in the past. That is a lowball offer compared to all the other picks.

Then compare it to other teams who signed their first round picks that year for the rookie maximum. In Umberger's draft year:

-the #7 pick was by Montreal - Mike Komisarek was signed for $1.13 million
-the #9 pick was by Chicago - Tuomo Ruutu was signed for $1.13 million
-the # 12 pick was by Nashville - Dan Hamhuis was signed for 1.13 million
-the # 13 pick was by Edmonton - Ales Hemsky was signed for $1.13 million
-the #14 pick was by Calgary - Chuck Kobasew was signed for $1.13 million
-the # 16 pick was by Vancouver - RJ Umberger signed by Philadelphia for $1.13 million
-the #17 pick was by Toronto - Carlo Colaiacovo was signed for $1.13 million
-the #19 pick was by Boston - Shaone Morrisonn was signed for $1.13 million

ARE YOU BEGINNING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE? and why Umberger and his agent saw little problem in getting the rookie maximum on the open market?

Also why they would be insulted by the offer from Burke?

Take a look at the #19 pick in the SECOND round of 2001 (#49) overall:
Mike Cammalleri signed by LA for $1.075 million which was the maximum for 2000 rookies. LA has a salary structure which is very close to the Canucks. This is common, with second round picks signing for the previous years rookie maximum in the top 2/3's of the second round.

Burke got himself in a pi$$ing match as he so often does and he would not back down. He began to believe his own press clippings.

Burkie also went on and on about Umberger's lack of heart, lack of physical play, inability to play defense, poor work ethic, etc. This was the exact opposite of what he had said earlier about Umberger.

This was vintage Burke and we have seen this movie played numerous times with Trent Klatt, Murray Baron, Kevin Weekes, Andrew Cassels, Peter Schaefer and so on.

As usual the clueless in Vancouver believed it without looking for themselves.

The problem was that Umberger unlike 99.9% of the draftees had an option. If he was not signed within 2 years then he became a unrestricted free agent rather than his rights just going back into the draft. He then could peddle his services to the highest bidder which is precisely what he did. He and his agent used the system to do what was best for Umberger.

Burkie OTOH squandered a valuable asset.

Burke made stupid decision to go to the mat with a player who had the leverage in the negotiations.

And people still wonder why Burkie was handed his walking papers in Vancouver.

A totally screwed up set of negotiations with Umberger and the loss of a very valuable asset with virtually nothing to show for it. Umberger would be the big tough centre with an offensive upside that the Canucks need if he had stayed in Vancouver.

Burke should have signed him and stuck him in the AHL (or traded him early on when he had some value). And he would not have been earning his NHL salary since all rookie pacts are required to be two way. As it worked out he would have been in the AHL for the year due to the NHL lockout which everyone saw coming except it seems Brian Burke.

All this Kesler/Umberger feud garbage was Burkie in full damage control mode. Just like the goalie graveyard fable to cover off his inability to assess goaltender talent. Check back in the newspapers of the time and it was just Burkie trying to show Lawton and Umberger who was boss. The joke was on Burkie since Umberger had the UFA hammer.

It was like Burkie's claim that Umberger was soft, had no grit, would not play physical. Which of course only became an issue in Burkie's fevered imagination when the low-ball offer was rejected. Here is how Umberger was talked about before the impasse.

More Burkie Bafflegab. Check out what was actually said until Burkie got in a battle with Umberger and Lawton.

If you listened to the Canucks until they started contract negotiations, Umberger was tough, physical hard-nosed specimen who had sculpted his body through hard weight training. At least those were the reports when Umberger was drafted and Canucks scout, Ron Delorme, thought he was body builder not a hockey player.

Soft play became a mantra for Burkie in the contract spat along with Umberger could not play defense, he would never be a two way player, he could not kill penalties, he was not physically tough, etc. Well Umberger put paid to all that BS and blarney in his first pro season with the Phantoms and has followed it up playing hardnosed hockey with the Flyers this season.

How about we let the "Mouth that Roared" speak for himself and what he had to say about Umberger at the time he drafted him and before he got in pissing match and tried to lowball Umberger:

Umberger dominated at every level. He left home at 16 to attend the USA Hockey National Development Program at Ann Arbour, Mich., and led the under-18 national team in scoring. Umberger was the Central Collegiate Hockey Association's rookie of the year last season with 68 points (33-35) in 57 games. He also played for the U.S. at the 2001 world junior tourney and, according to Canucks general manager Brian Burke, was a no-brainer selection Saturday.

"We're ecstatic," said Burke of Umberger, who was ranked 14th overall. "We hoped this is a kid who dropped down to us (in draft order) and I hope it's because 15 teams made a mistake.

"We project him as a centre but he's got the style to play on the wall if that's what happens down the road. He has exceptional skating ability and likes to dish out physical punishment. He has the work ethic, intensity and all the intangibles."

Ron Delorme, the Canucks vice-president of amateur scouting, said Umberger first caught the club's eye a year ago in a European tourney. Vancouver saw a young Trevor Linden in the making and loved his maturity in pre-draft interviews.

"He's a power forward in the corners who earns his spot in front of the net and, not being a fancy player, he has to be capable of making plays," said Delorme, who was so enamoured with Umberger he asked for another interview Friday.

Umberger is also one of the best-conditioned prospects.


No work ethic, no intensity, not physical, won't go to the corners - right just as you said all along Burkie, right???

Or how about this report - Burkie would later claim the Umberger did not have the strength and upper body development to play effectively in the NHL.

This is a kid who spent hour after hour in the weight room, working on his strength and conditioning, while his friends were going to movies and school dances.

"He was in the weight room every night doing all of the hard lifts until he was puking, crawling out of the gym and having trouble driving home because he was so fatigued," says Scott Umberger, his cousin and workout partner.

When Ron Delorme, Vancouver's head scout, saw Umberger take off his shirt to get his measurements taken at the recent scouting combine in Toronto he thought the kid was a bodybuilder he was so sculpted.

"For a player his size, he has exceptional skating ability," said Burke. "He likes to hit. He isn't afraid at all and likes to dish out physical punishment."


Really Brian????

Well maybe Umberger had a bad year in college play in 2002-03 , yeah that must be it, he regressed just before he sought his first pro contract.
Now, Canucks first-round draft choice R.J. Umberger hopes to match that accomplishment. Umberger, 20, a junior centre with Ohio State University, has been projected by USA Today as one of nine favourites for the annual honour, first awarded in 1981. He has 25 goals and 27 assists for the 15th-ranked Buckeyes, who open championship tournament play on March 14-15. The 6-foot-2, 202- pound Pittsburgh native was the 16th overall selection in the 2001 NHL entry draft.

So he did not have a bad year at all in fact he had a great year.

And here is how the Burkie screw-up began:
"I'd definitely rather be down there playing, there's no doubt about that," Umberger said.

Here was Burkie's supposed "rationale":
Quote:
Burke believes by standing firm and allowing the 16th overall selection in the 2001 entry draft to become an unrestricted free agent on June 1 -- as long as Umberger doesn't play this season -- it will send the right message to future Canuck draft picks.

"For me to trade him or give him whatever he wants, it will be the last time Vancouver signs a first-round pick," Burke said Tuesday. "I'm perfectly prepared to allow this kid to go. I met with R.J. at training camp and I told him: 'Just so you know, if we start down this road I want it clear that I will let you become unrestricted.' "

"But if he doesn't sign, he doesn't sign. I go days and weeks without thinking about R.J. Umberger."
Now that makes a lot of sense (NOT). To use a favourie Burkie put-down - what drugs was Burke on? Everyone (except maybe Burkie?) knew the Van Ryn college loophole was being closed so how was this going to set a precedent and "teach" other draft picks?

And here is what Burkie was now feeding his pet reporters about Umberger whe he decided to get muley:
Quote:
Umberger's game has been critiqued as one-dimensional and inconsistent even though he had 53 points (26-27) in 43 NCAA games with the Buckeyes last season.
Since when Burkie????

I advocated when the whole mess started that Burke should trade Umberger if he was not going to sign him. If you recall Burke vowed repeatedly that he would NEVER trade Umberger and that he could sit until he became a free agent. Incredibly stupid, but hey this is Burkie after all.

I posted several times in the past during this soap opera that by holding onto him to such a late date Umberger had virtually no value. Umberger was little more than throw-in in the trade for Martin Rucinsky.

According to Ken Hitchcock who scouted him extensively in his first year as a pro in the AHL (the lockout year) Umberger has played very well defensively and away frm the puck and has used his size well. Hitchcock went so far as to compare him to a young Joe Nieuwendyck in his style of play and he was never shy in the physical going. Hitchcock is not known to give praise lightly.

Most of the lack of desire, lack of physicality claims oringinated with Burke as part of his PR campaign. It is SOP for Burke. Burkie went on and on about Umberger's lack of heart, lack of physical play, inability to play defense, poor work ethic, etc. This was vintage Burke and we have seen this movie played numerous times with Trent Klatt, Murray Baron, Kevin Weekes, Andrew Cassels, Peter Schaefer and so on.

As usual the clueless in Vancouver believed it without looking for themselves.

Here is how Umberger's AHL (now NHL)coach assessed him after his first year of pro:
Quote:
"I would never want to put a timetable on it, but he's certainly opened some eyes this year with what he's been able to do," Phantoms head coach John Stevens said after Philadelphia's 5-3 win over the Penguins on Tuesday night in Game 4.

"A big guy that can carry the puck and play, a guy with skill that size, I think he's going to have a bright future."

Umberger responded by leading his new team in scoring with 65 points, leading AHL rookies in assists with 44, and being named Phantoms Rookie of the Year.

"He's done a lot of great things this year," Stevens said.
During the AHL play-offs Umberger was asked to take over the role of shutdown centre when Mike Richards joined the Phantoms for the postseason. And his response?
Quote:
Don’t call it a demotion. Just call it a new opportunity.

That’s how R.J. Umberger viewed his new role as the center on the Phantoms’ checking line in Game 4.

It was a chance to refocus. It was a chance to get back to playing the game that made him one of the most successful rookies in the AHL in the regular season. It was a chance to once again be one of the Phantoms best players.

Umberger made the most of that chance.

Supplanted by Mike Richards as the man in the middle on the Phantoms’ second line, Umberger took the move in stride and instead of sulking and complaining, played his best game of the playoffs.

Umberger was more physical than he’s been in any game this postseason. He created scoring chances. He forced turnovers. He was a whirling dervish in the Wilkes-Barre zone, forcing the Penguins to make multiple outlet passes as opposed to easily skating out of their zone with the puck.

And by doing this, Umberger made the most important play of the game.

While relentlessly pressuring the Penguins in their own end, Umberger picked off a bad pass by Ross Lupaschuck and then, fighting off Ryan Whitney with his right hand, Umberger lifted a one-handed backhander past Pens goalie Andy Chiodo to give the Phantoms a two-goal cushion in the second period of their eventual 5-3 win.
Stevens said that Umberger was leader both on the ice and in the locker room.

Cut through the Burke bafflegab and you will see a massive missed opportunity to solidify the Canucks down the middle for years to come.

One of the advantages of having access to historical newspaper archives I can go back and find what Burkie actually said at the time rather than engaing in revisionist history as seemed to be Burkie's schtick.

Since turning pro Umberger has played whatever role he has been asked. Offensive centre/wing, shutdown centre, powerplay and PK.

In his first year of pro in the AHL (the lockout year so the quality of play was higher than usual). He was an offensive leader in the regular season on a team that won the Calder Cup. When Richards and Carter joined the Phantoms for the play-off run he was asked to take over the role of shutdown centre and he did so while still chipping in some key goals. Ken Hitchcock would describe him as "young Joe Nieuwendyck:
80GP 21G 44A 65Pts

In his first NHL year he was called up 8 games into the season due to injuries to some forwards and played quite a bit of Top Six minutes on the wing and at centre (if he had played 82 games):
73GP 20G 18A 38Pts (82GP 23G 20A 43Pts)

Compare that to Kesler that season (more games):
82GP 10G 13A 23Pts

In 2006-07 Umberger was asked to play more of shut down role as the Top Six forwards stayed healthy (Carter and Richards moved to centre):
81GP 16G 12A 28Pts

Kesler in a shorter campaign posted slightly lower goals and almost identical points (if you extrapolate):
48GP 6G 10A 16Pts (81GP 10G 17A 27Pts)

This season Umberger was banged up (surgery on his hand in September but played through it and had problems properly gripping his stick until December and then missed the last six games of the season with a knee sprain) and again played a shut down role for the most part with some powerplay time on the second unit on the wing (extrapolate to 80 games):
74GP 13G 37A 50Pts (14G 41A 55Pts)

Kesler's break-out season:
80GP 21G 16A 37Pts

Umberger is also showing he can produce when the pressure is on - look at the play-offs. After coming back from the knee injury and being a little tentative in the first few games he has posted these post season numbers in his career:
11GP 7G 1A 8Pts +4

Players who can ratchet up their play when the pressure is on are a valuable commodity (check out the Sedins who are sadly lacking this capacity). Can Kesler do it? Who knows he has yet to have the chance with only part of one game in the post season under his belt.

Their respective career regular season stats to date:
Umberger:
228GP 49G 67A 116Pts (.51 pts per game)

Kesler:
238GP 39G 42A 81Pts (.34 pts per game)

Umberger in the postseason:
16GP 8G 1A 9Pts (.56 points per game)

The point is the Canucks should have both Umberger and Kesler on tap. Umberger has more offensive skill and is a little bigger. Both can bang but Umberger has knack of avoiding penalties when hitting.

Right now the Canucks would have their Number 2 (or maybe 1A) centre in Umberger and the shutdown guy in Kesler. Umberger would have looked pretty good this season centering Naslund as he can be a playmaker as well as a goal scorer given the massive gaping hole that is the centre ice position on the Canucks.

Big physical centre who is defensively responsible with good offensive upside... definitely no need for that sort of player on the Canucks they have surplus of them in the system, correct?
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...r#post14926965

I think you will enjoy watching Umberger and he may well be able t take some of the pressure off Nash.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 07:32 AM
  #84
pete goegan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
pete goegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,620
vCash: 500
Thanks for the interesting info, Wetcoaster. Even allowing for your none-too-subtle distaste for Burke, what's left is some encouraging analysis of our new top center.

pete goegan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 10:30 AM
  #85
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Thanks for the interesting info, Wetcoaster. Even allowing for your none-too-subtle distaste for Burke, what's left is some encouraging analysis of our new top center.
I was not aiming for subtle.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 11:55 AM
  #86
cbj21
Registered User
 
cbj21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Shampoo land
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,524
vCash: 500
Wow, now i feel so bad for Vancouver and i hate Burke lol.
Great info

cbj21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 03:28 PM
  #87
FlaggerX
Registered User
 
FlaggerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Columbus
Posts: 1,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I was not aiming for subtle.
Almost made me thankful for MacLean.

Almost.

FlaggerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.