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Playoffs vs Rebuilding

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Old
02-17-2004, 08:50 AM
  #1
Leetchie
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Playoffs vs Rebuilding

Ok, so the way things are going, this is how the East will pan out:

1 Philadelphia -- 107
2 Ottawa -- 106 (45 wins)
3 Tampa Bay -- 101
4 Toronto -- 106 (44 wins)
5 New Jersey -- 102
6 Boston -- 101
7 NY Isles -- 90
8 Montreal -- 89
-----------------------------------------
9 Buffalo -- 81
10 Florida -- 75
11 NY Rangers - 74

The Rangers need 37 points to get 90 -- they would have to go 18-4-1 (or 17-3-3, 16-2-5, 15-1-7, 14-0-9) over their next 23 games. That's ASSUMING Montreal or the Islanders don't pick it up...

Time to rebuild -- Nedved, Hlavac, Lindros, Kovalev, Malakhov, Mironov, maybe even Leetch... all need to get traded for younger players.

Kovalev to STL for Peter Sejna and Christian Backman (6'4", 22 year old defenseman).
Nedved to LA for Jared Aulin.
Malakhov to MTL for Corey Locke.
Mironov to CGY for Tim Ramholt.
Leetch to the highest bidder for a high-end prospect, a mid-level grinding prospect, and a 1st round pick.

Are those feasible or are they pipe dreams?

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Old
02-17-2004, 08:52 AM
  #2
tony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
Ok, so the way things are going, this is how the East will pan out:

1 Philadelphia -- 107
2 Ottawa -- 106 (45 wins)
3 Tampa Bay -- 101
4 Toronto -- 106 (44 wins)
5 New Jersey -- 102
6 Boston -- 101
7 NY Isles -- 90
8 Montreal -- 89
-----------------------------------------
9 Buffalo -- 81
10 Florida -- 75
11 NY Rangers - 74

The Rangers need 37 points to get 90 -- they would have to go 18-4-1 (or 17-3-3, 16-2-5, 15-1-7, 14-0-9) over their next 23 games. That's ASSUMING Montreal or the Islanders don't pick it up...

Time to rebuild -- Nedved, Hlavac, Lindros, Kovalev, Malakhov, Mironov, maybe even Leetch... all need to get traded for younger players.

Kovalev to STL for Peter Sejna and Christian Backman (6'4", 22 year old defenseman).
Nedved to LA for Jared Aulin.
Malakhov to MTL for Corey Locke.
Mironov to CGY for Tim Ramholt.
Leetch to the highest bidder for a high-end prospect, a mid-level grinding prospect, and a 1st round pick.

Are those feasible or are they pipe dreams?
mtl will never take malakhov back..ever.

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Old
02-17-2004, 09:01 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
mtl will never take malakhov back..ever.

Good point. So maybe switch Malakhov and Mironov around... send Mironov to MTL (Souray is hurt) and Malakhov the Calgary?

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02-17-2004, 10:12 AM
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TKLOOCH22
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Other than the Leetch deal I dont think the others improve the Rangers rebuilding wise. Nedved for Aulin seems fair. One of the M&M brothers for Ramholt is a pipe dream. How old is Sejna? 23? Backman is going to turn 24 in a couple of months. These guys aren't old but not what you'd want for Kovalev.

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02-17-2004, 10:41 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKLOOCH22
Other than the Leetch deal I dont think the others improve the Rangers rebuilding wise. Nedved for Aulin seems fair. One of the M&M brothers for Ramholt is a pipe dream. How old is Sejna? 23? Backman is going to turn 24 in a couple of months. These guys aren't old but not what you'd want for Kovalev.
Returns I'd take for Kovalev... Sejna and Backman are 23 -- not exactly "old". Hell, no one in the NHL is expected to produce until around that age, with very few exceptions (Kovalchuk, Heatley, etc.).

I'd also take Connolly and Tallinder out of Buffalo -- also 23, and with loads of potential.

The reason this improves the Rangers is because there's suddenly an infusion of youth. Also, with the potential strike/lock-out, it frees up Nedved ($4.5M), Kovalev ($6M), Malakhov ($4M), Mironov ($3M)...

Ask around the league -- see what GM's are willing to give up more than Sejna/Backman or Connolly/Tallinder for Kovalev.

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02-17-2004, 10:57 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
Ask around the league -- see what GM's are willing to give up more than Sejna/Backman or Connolly/Tallinder for Kovalev.
Sather better be doing a lil more than just asking. He better be getting returns more beneficial to a rebuilding process we need to undertake. Those returns dont get it done for me, IMO.

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Old
02-17-2004, 12:46 PM
  #7
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individually, a lot of those deals work for me but as a whole, you are trading 3 defenseman (if we can call them that) for only one ready to play defenseman in backman. you're looking at

devries-kaspar
poti-backman
tyutin-purinton

unless some uber coach comes in who can really get them to play a solid defensive system comes, you'll forgive me for having doubts. poti cannot play on this team unless you get him a rock solid absolute stay at home defenseman. backman is more of a two way dman. you don't have to get a said dman from stl. but at least from on of the other trades.

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Old
02-17-2004, 01:16 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8
individually, a lot of those deals work for me but as a whole, you are trading 3 defenseman (if we can call them that) for only one ready to play defenseman in backman. you're looking at

devries-kaspar
poti-backman
tyutin-purinton

unless some uber coach comes in who can really get them to play a solid defensive system comes, you'll forgive me for having doubts. poti cannot play on this team unless you get him a rock solid absolute stay at home defenseman. backman is more of a two way dman. you don't have to get a said dman from stl. but at least from on of the other trades.

You know that won't be the top 6 for next year.

Leetch, Poti deVries, Kaspairitis and Tytin will all be back there and in the other spot I expect them to go for a physical stay at home either through UFA or via trade.

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Old
02-17-2004, 01:29 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
Ok, so the way things are going, this is how the East will pan out:

1 Philadelphia -- 107
2 Ottawa -- 106 (45 wins)
3 Tampa Bay -- 101
4 Toronto -- 106 (44 wins)
5 New Jersey -- 102
6 Boston -- 101
7 NY Isles -- 90
8 Montreal -- 89
-----------------------------------------
9 Buffalo -- 81
10 Florida -- 75
11 NY Rangers - 74

The Rangers need 37 points to get 90 -- they would have to go 18-4-1 (or 17-3-3, 16-2-5, 15-1-7, 14-0-9) over their next 23 games. That's ASSUMING Montreal or the Islanders don't pick it up...

Time to rebuild -- Nedved, Hlavac, Lindros, Kovalev, Malakhov, Mironov, maybe even Leetch... all need to get traded for younger players.

Kovalev to STL for Peter Sejna and Christian Backman (6'4", 22 year old defenseman).
Nedved to LA for Jared Aulin.
Malakhov to MTL for Corey Locke.
Mironov to CGY for Tim Ramholt.
Leetch to the highest bidder for a high-end prospect, a mid-level grinding prospect, and a 1st round pick.

Are those feasible or are they pipe dreams?
Leetch is still a top D-man in the league, but in today's NHL, there is no way is he worth even close to that (b/c of salary, age, etc). I would think the best he could fetch is a high-end prospect and a mid-level pick.

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Old
02-17-2004, 11:25 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKLOOCH22
Sather better be doing a lil more than just asking. He better be getting returns more beneficial to a rebuilding process we need to undertake. Those returns dont get it done for me, IMO.

Well, if you were the GM, we'd have this roster into golfing season, then...

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Old
02-18-2004, 01:37 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
Returns I'd take for Kovalev... Sejna and Backman are 23 -- not exactly "old". Hell, no one in the NHL is expected to produce until around that age, with very few exceptions (Kovalchuk, Heatley, etc.).

I'd also take Connolly and Tallinder out of Buffalo -- also 23, and with loads of potential.



The reason this improves the Rangers is because there's suddenly an infusion of youth. Also, with the potential strike/lock-out, it frees up Nedved ($4.5M), Kovalev ($6M), Malakhov ($4M), Mironov ($3M)...

Ask around the league -- see what GM's are willing to give up more than Sejna/Backman or Connolly/Tallinder for Kovalev.

Connolly is having skull problems at the moment & hasn't played all year. Didn't the Rangers go down that road before....

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02-18-2004, 04:18 AM
  #12
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Tough sell

A lot of these guys are so over-paid and under-achieving that getting "fair" value will be tough.

Leetch will have strongest interest.
But he'll want to go to a contender (cuts it down to top 5 in each conf)
Rangers will want to move him to West rather than help a conference rival, and they'll want youth in return.

San Jose has young defense corp. and has a chance to win west.

Maybe Philly will take nedved to back fill their injuries at center. Maybe sther can get a couple of picks for him.

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Old
02-18-2004, 08:16 AM
  #13
TKLOOCH22
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Originally Posted by Leetchie
Well, if you were the GM, we'd have this roster into golfing season, then...
I dont know. Maybe my expectations of the values are players are a bit different from yours but who cares? I was just giving an opinion, not like you had to throw your arms up in disgust, lol.

I would value Kovalev a lil more than you do, Mironov less than Ramholt, Malakhov and Leetch are about all right and the Nedved deal seemed fair. Anyways, just my opinion.

My Order of Top 5 Guys to Trade:

Alex Kovalev
Petr Nedved
Tom Poti
Vlad Malakhov
Matt Barnaby

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Old
02-18-2004, 09:05 AM
  #14
Leetchie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255
Connolly is having skull problems at the moment & hasn't played all year. Didn't the Rangers go down that road before....
Yeah, twice, and both times, the player was 30 or close to it (LaFontaine, Lindros). Connolly is 23! It's not like he has a history of concussions -- he's had ONE, and it happened to be this year. I am a big believer in buying while it's cheap, and selling while it's expensive, and hockey trades are the same way. Connolly's value is low right now -- but so is Kovalev's. Then again, all this is moot because Buffalo isn't even in the playoff picture.

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02-18-2004, 09:08 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKLOOCH22
I dont know. Maybe my expectations of the values are players are a bit different from yours but who cares? I was just giving an opinion, not like you had to throw your arms up in disgust, lol.

I would value Kovalev a lil more than you do, Mironov less than Ramholt, Malakhov and Leetch are about all right and the Nedved deal seemed fair. Anyways, just my opinion.

My Order of Top 5 Guys to Trade:

Alex Kovalev
Petr Nedved
Tom Poti
Vlad Malakhov
Matt Barnaby
I'll be honest with you -- I'm the biggest Kovalev fan around. I think he's top 3 in the NHL in terms of talent. I was extremely mad when he was dealt, and I was extremely happy when we got him back. That said, this team needs a facelift, and it needs "hungrier" players. Alex hasn't shown any hunger at all out there. He earns his points on pure talent, not hard work. If we can find someone who likes him, I'd trade him.

I agree that Nedved has to go, but as much as I didn't like Poti, I think he needs to stay. This blue line is paper thin already, and he's played much better this year than in years past. I haven't complained about him more than a handful of times this year, which is something that happened on a nightly basis last year.

The only reason I said to trade Leetch (my favorite player) is because he's the one guy who's value is extremely high. Look what Rob Blake and Ray Bourque fetched, and I'd expect something similar.

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02-18-2004, 09:52 AM
  #16
TKLOOCH22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
I'll be honest with you -- I'm the biggest Kovalev fan around. I think he's top 3 in the NHL in terms of talent. I was extremely mad when he was dealt, and I was extremely happy when we got him back. That said, this team needs a facelift, and it needs "hungrier" players. Alex hasn't shown any hunger at all out there. He earns his points on pure talent, not hard work. If we can find someone who likes him, I'd trade him.

I agree that Nedved has to go, but as much as I didn't like Poti, I think he needs to stay. This blue line is paper thin already, and he's played much better this year than in years past. I haven't complained about him more than a handful of times this year, which is something that happened on a nightly basis last year.

The only reason I said to trade Leetch (my favorite player) is because he's the one guy who's value is extremely high. Look what Rob Blake and Ray Bourque fetched, and I'd expect something similar.
Same here. I say if Sather picks up good returns and start a good future for us on guys like Kovalev, Nedved, Malakhov, Mironov, Barnaby and the likes then he can afford to keep Leetch. I'm torn on whether to trade him or keep him.

One guy that probably noone has taken a look at is, and big props to Singn' for suggesting him, Jan Platil who is property of the Ottawa Senators. After Singn' suggested him in another thread I looked him up and he is a big, raw kid that is an extremely nasty SOB described as one that can be borderline dirty at times. This is his first year of pro in the AHL and although he hasnt produced offensively this year, he steadily increased his offensive numbers throughout his time in Junior. He's an '83 and around 6'2'' 195 lbs. from this site.

I like him and was thinking Matt Barnaby for Jan Platil & 4th round '04.

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02-18-2004, 09:56 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Leetchie
Then again, all this is moot because Buffalo isn't even in the playoff picture.
Actually, Buffalo is right in the mix with Montreal and the Islanders. They're only 4 pts behind them.

7. NYI-64 pts. 59 GP
8. MON-64 pts. 60 GP
9. BUF-60 pts. 59 GP

BTW, Sather is pipe dreaming about making a run as we all know.

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02-18-2004, 08:15 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKLOOCH22
Actually, Buffalo is right in the mix with Montreal and the Islanders. They're only 4 pts behind them.

7. NYI-64 pts. 59 GP
8. MON-64 pts. 60 GP
9. BUF-60 pts. 59 GP

BTW, Sather is pipe dreaming about making a run as we all know.

Isles are playing their 59th game tonight

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