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The Irony of the Rangers vs Devils offseason directions...

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Old
07-10-2008, 08:57 PM
  #126
Gunnar Stahl 30
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Originally Posted by motime42 View Post
I was holding back on posting in this thread for obvious reasons. But this post takes the cake. You are either completely biased or just plain stupid. One of the 2. To say that Colin White is CURRENTLY better than Marc Staal is probably the most uninformed, idiotic post I have ever read on these HFBoards. You my friend get post of the year.
and you my "friend" buy into the new york hype more then anyone obviously. you hear from stan fishler and al assclown how good staal is and that hes a staal so hes ****in amazing. well yea, hes going to be great but he didnt play any better then white did last year. you probably thought gomez was a sap when he was with the devils and now hes probably top 5 center in your mind

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07-10-2008, 09:01 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
name the 20 teams
well this is lose lose for me. i can A) name the 20 teams, give and give a legitimate argument but still people will argue with me just for the sake of arguing or B) not list the 20 teams and people will be saying " he cant do it because white sucks and every ranger defenseman is better then him"

so im going to choose B because there are many people that like to argu just for the sake of arguing

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07-10-2008, 09:04 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
well this is lose lose for me. i can A) name the 20 teams, give and give a legitimate argument but still people will argue with me just for the sake of arguing or B) not list the 20 teams and people will be saying " he cant do it because white sucks and every ranger defenseman is better then him"

so im going to choose B because there are many people that like to argu just for the sake of arguing
im sorry but honestly i can see white being better than kalinin but not Mara, Staal, nor Girardi, he is just not the same since the injury. it'd be a whole different story if White hadn't gotten hurt

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07-10-2008, 09:07 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Devs4thCup View Post
Pandolfo Madden Zubrus/Langenbrunner
Rupp Holik Clarkson

I'm sorry but there isn't a competition between the two.
agreed, the Rangers bottom 6 will smash more faces.

in terms of skill, yea, the debbies got us.

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07-10-2008, 09:08 PM
  #130
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http://www.boston.com/sports/article...or_two/?page=5

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Rolston will be 39 when the deal expires, and his extra dimension is in his legs. Few can keep up that speed in their late 30s, but as far as conditioning goes, he has always been more the exception than the rule.
http://njmg.typepad.com/devilsblog/2...nally-had.html

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"I know people who when they're 35, they're going on 40 and I've had people who were 28 going on 40," Devils GM Lou Lamoriello said. "In Brian's case here, he's not a player at 35 years old. We look at him like a 30-year-old player. The way he keeps himself in shape and certainly the values he has as far as off the ice, we don't look at him as 35-year-old player. Age is a number. It has to do with exactly what he can bring and what he has. So, no, I'm not concerned."

"Maybe three years from now I will (be)," Lamoriello added, laughing, "But right now I'm not."

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07-10-2008, 09:14 PM
  #131
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NJ did what it needed to do. Brodeur is not getting any younger and they have signed players that will give them a better chance today rather than going forward. NJ fans have always over rated their prospects and their drafts in recent times have been down right poor. The colleration between the NYRs of 1998-2000 and NJ current plight are very accurate. They do not have any depth in their prospect pool. Over the years NJ has been, shall we say, extremely fortunate that Broduer has never suffered a major, season ending injury. They have no replacement should anything happen to him. They will be in the same position we were when Richter went down. They will then be faced with folding a season or pay a king's ransom for a replacement. Yes they have drafted well with players like Parise and Zajac, but little else. Zajac has kind of leveled off and I think most fans would agree that the expectations of him were a little bit higher, but he is still young and sometimes players level off, adjust their game and move forward.

The roles of these 2 teams have been reversed. We are building from within adding key players where needed either via trade or UFA signings, but getting younger, not older. NJ with each additional year added to their last cup have signed more and more UFAs. Sound familar? NYRs did the exact samething when our prospect pool was bare.

Pissing away a 1st round draft pick on the dumpimg of Malakov helps underscores one of Lou's weaknesses, he historically has struck out more with UFA signings than having success. So Lou ends up not working to one of his strengths. Paying Rolston the money he paid is not the issue. What is the issue is the term for a 35 year old. This has the potential to be Malakov II with longer reaching implications potentially for NJ. Did the NYRs lose out on signing him? Thank god we did and refused to offer such a term to an old player when you literally do not know when the wheels will come off. With older players it is not always the legs that go. Many times it the timing, the hands. Then what do you do with Rolston? Anyone that compares the uncalled for Bryce Sallvador's $2.9M contract to Wade Redden's is mind boggling. Contract's like Salvador's were suppose to have been eliminated by the lockout. There is just no justification for that salary for a player of that caliber.

In the beginning Sather needed big named players to fill the seats. Now that he has restocked and completely rebuilt the organization, literally from top to bottom, he has no such need anymore and anyone needing proof is his walking away from Jagr, his best acquisition during his tenure and the reason for that is what he has, Lundqvist, Staal, etc and the other quality prospect waiting in the wings in the next 1-3 years. The rivilary has literally come full circle.

This coming year is certainly going to be interesting for both teams and to compare the signing of the 2 teams in the vacum of the coming year is wrong. NJ signings were more for the immediate season, the NYR for beyond the coming season.

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Old
07-10-2008, 09:15 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
28 minutes? id need proof of that before i believe it. white is a stay at home defenseman, and top 4 on 20 teams
is he even top 4 on the devils?? Brooklyndevil doesn't think.

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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post

Martin-Oduya
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White-Greene
Mottau-Fraser

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07-10-2008, 09:19 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Redden is all a gamble. He's a potential #1 defenseman.

Colin White is never going to be a #1. There's a pretty big difference in that regard, sattar18.

The Redden contract is all based on potential. The White contract was based off of past laurels in the pre-lockout NHL and so far looks like it's terrible.
First of all, even at his best, it's questionable if Redden was ever a number one defenseman. Regardless, he hasn't been at his best since before the lockout and has been downright atrocious the last two seasons.

Even if you put all that aside, what if Redden fails to reach HIS potential? Then he'll be a horrible albatross of a contract, not to mention the Garden whipping boy, for six years and it will be just as terrible.

Boy, do I hope I'm wrong, but this signing could handicap the Rangers for a long time.

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07-10-2008, 09:20 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
is he even top 4 on the devils?? Brooklyndevil doesn't think.
It depends on what his eye looks like when camp starts. He wasn't that great last year, but Lou said that he didn't fully recover when he came back. He was pretty much seeing from one eye.

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07-10-2008, 09:21 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
and you my "friend" buy into the new york hype more then anyone obviously. you hear from stan fishler and al assclown how good staal is and that hes a staal so hes ****in amazing. well yea, hes going to be great but he didnt play any better then white did last year. you probably thought gomez was a sap when he was with the devils and now hes probably top 5 center in your mind
If it makes you feel any better, I thought Gomez was among the most overrated players in the league when he was on the Devils, and I still do.

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07-10-2008, 09:21 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
and you my "friend" buy into the new york hype more then anyone obviously. you hear from stan fishler and al assclown how good staal is and that hes a staal so hes ****in amazing. well yea, hes going to be great but he didnt play any better then white did last year. you probably thought gomez was a sap when he was with the devils and now hes probably top 5 center in your mind
Or I watch a lot of Devils and Rangers games and make the judgement for myself.

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07-10-2008, 09:21 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
First of all, even at his best, it's questionable if Redden was ever a number one defenseman. Regardless, he hasn't been at his best since before the lockout and has been downright atrocious the last two seasons.

Even if you put all that aside, what if Redden fails to reach HIS potential? Then he'll be a horrible albatross of a contract, not to mention the Garden whipping boy, for six years and it will be just as terrible.

Boy, do I hope I'm wrong, but this signing could handicap the Rangers for a long time.
are you kidding? Redden was no doubt a superstar defensman at his best.

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07-10-2008, 09:23 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
are you kidding? Redden was no doubt a superstar defensman at his best.
Which was a while ago... Also, I think this new run and gun style General Glen is proposing for next season isn't going to help Redden at all.

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07-10-2008, 09:25 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Weeonta View Post
Which was a while ago... Also, I think this new run and gun style General Glen is proposing for next season isn't going to help Redden at all.
i agree with you, and i actually dont think there will be a run and gun style. i think that they will keep in the same defensive format that they've had success in.

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07-10-2008, 09:27 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
are you kidding? Redden was no doubt a superstar defensman at his best.
Based on what?

He never excelled at a single aspect of the game. I always liked him and thought he was a good player, but to call him a superstar is absurd.

He was never particularly physical, he was never a shutdown defenseman. His offensive game was pretty good, but he was never a Zubov, a Lidstrom, or a Gonchar. His shot isn't especially great and I never noticed his passing ability/decision making to be on par with the aforementioned "superstars."

I've watched him play many, many times, both in his prime and after it. Never did I think of him as a superstar. A very good player, a #2 defenseman, yes. Probably on the "star" level, at least for 2-3 years.

Never a superstar, though.

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07-10-2008, 09:28 PM
  #141
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Now that most of the dust has settled from the UFA signing Frenzy I just was thinking just how ironic it is to see the Rangers and Devils choosing such different paths with their recent management decisions.

Decisions that left us with the youngest team in the division as well as the entire eastern conference if I read it correctly at just over 27yrs old where as the Devils are over 3 yrs older on average at over 30+yrs average age.

What we are seeing it almost a total role reversal of the late '90's--early'00's as far as personel decisions and overall philosophy.
HOW????? we brought back 2 guys that have won cups with 90s in 00s so how have we changed philsophy????

i think some of you are just telling yoursleves how much younger your forwards are to make it hurt less when you realize your forwards arent as good as they were last year. the red wings are the oldest team in the league, but then again, they will probably suck next year too.

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What's funny is seeing all the Devil fans call for this guy and a bunch actually have him in their avatars and beg for Lou to sign him (as if Lou can convince any top UFA's to come)but once he signs with us he suddenly sucks and it was a bad deal!
pot calling the kettle black, do you know how many ranger fans wanted rolston?

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Same with Roszival, probrably the 3rd most sought after UFA dman this summer who once again chose the Rangers over all the other suitors.

And the Mara signing as our 5th dman just goes to show that the Rangers, unlike the Devils is amoung the top 2 or 3 destinations for UFA's who will take much less favorable terms to sign on.
hahah yea, good point because rolston did the same thing. he took less money to play for the devils

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Tom Gulitti

The Devils beat out the Rangers and the Detroit Red Wings among 16 total teams that submitted contract offers to Rolston. A league source said the Rangers were one of the finalists, but, in the end, Rolston chose to return to New Jersey.

"There were other teams in it," Rolston said. "I would say Lou stepped up big time and that means a lot to me. I respect Lou and the way he does business...It's a class organization and there were other offers that were maybe a little bit more (money), but at the end of the day I feel that this organization is where I want to be."
but nice try with that one.



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You know who signs players who are closer to 40 as opposed to 30...teams that can't entice players at or near their primes and that is also why Lou was kicking the tires on an ancient Sergei Federov...but at least you got the younger Fed-Fed to buck the trend you were on!
uhhhh, no unlike sather, lou has a little bit of patience. you guys love sather so much because he buys players every single year for you and what has it gotten you???? how many division banners? how many appreances in the scf?? exactly.

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And while you guys are overjoyed with these "vast" improvements that the mightly Lou was able to pull off you are forgetting 2 things...you're pretty much capped out and don't have anything close to a #1 and for that matter #2 center on the squad and your top 6 or 8 as Lou likes to carry is just as pathetic as ever as you'll see the great Mike Motteau and Brookbank taking regular shifts!

For that I as a NYR fan would like to thank Lou!
im glad you know more about our team then both lou and sutter. elias averaged almost a point a game when he was playing center.

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And back to the Devs going with the former NYR style of mangement, there's nothing like putting together a roster and trying to back square pegs into round holes as in having to resort to shifting wingers to play out of place as 1st line centers!
from reading your posts, youd think you are playing NHL 08 or something. i mean you nitpick about a year in age difference and guys that are actually able to play more then one position....ive read alot of threads that talk about lines, and many people have zherdev playing lw and rw and drury not playin center and naslund playing lw and rw, dubinsky playing lw, i mean WHICH IS IT???? make up your minds already, its not like players can play different positions

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managements has lost their minds but yet Lou had such a great summer that he has redeemed himself from being hands down one of the worst 5 GM's since the lockout ended!
im glad daddy sather buys you what you want every july....


Last edited by Gunnar Stahl 30: 07-10-2008 at 09:33 PM.
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Old
07-10-2008, 09:30 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
is he even top 4 on the devils?? Brooklyndevil doesn't think.
thats just the pairings, he has to play with a guy thats faster then him because hes not very fast

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07-10-2008, 09:32 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
i agree with you, and i actually dont think there will be a run and gun style. i think that they will keep in the same defensive format that they've had success in.
Hey, the trap never fails.

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07-10-2008, 09:32 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
i agree with you, and i actually dont think there will be a run and gun style. i think that they will keep in the same defensive format that they've had success in.
i personally dont know why you would get away from something that is successful, who the **** gives a **** if your "boring" etc as long as you win

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07-10-2008, 09:36 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Based on what?

He never excelled at a single aspect of the game. I always liked him and thought he was a good player, but to call him a superstar is absurd.

He was never particularly physical, he was never a shutdown defenseman. His offensive game was pretty good, but he was never a Zubov, a Lidstrom, or a Gonchar. His shot isn't especially great and I never noticed his passing ability/decision making to be on par with the aforementioned "superstars."

I've watched him play many, many times, both in his prime and after it. Never did I think of him as a superstar. A very good player, a #2 defenseman, yes. Probably on the "star" level, at least for 2-3 years.

Never a superstar, though.
Gonchar is extremely overated in my opinion. he gets all of his points playing with Crosby, and Malkin on the PowerPlay, the guy is a liability when it comes to the defensive game. And obviously you only remember the past 2 years, as Redden was probably a top 5 defensman in this league.

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07-10-2008, 09:40 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
Gonchar is extremely overated in my opinion. he gets all of his points playing with Crosby, and Malkin on the PowerPlay, the guy is a liability when it comes to the defensive game. And obviously you only remember the past 2 years, as Redden was probably a top 5 defensman in this league.
Again, I ask, based on what? Even during Redden's best years, 2000-2004, he just happened to be paired with Zdeno Chara. Ask Senator fans how they feel about the team's decision to retain Redden and allow Chara to walk.

And where did Gonchar get his points when he played in Washington? He was a liability on defense, I'll give you that, but he improved that aspect of his game this season. A big reason for their success in the playoffs. His responsible play made it a lot easier for the highly overrated Orpik to run around out of position and crunch people.

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07-10-2008, 09:43 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
Gonchar is extremely overated in my opinion. he gets all of his points playing with Crosby, and Malkin on the PowerPlay, the guy is a liability when it comes to the defensive game. And obviously you only remember the past 2 years, as Redden was probably a top 5 defensman in this league.
gonchar is no more a defensive liablilty then redden is.

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07-10-2008, 09:48 PM
  #148
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Oh my God, we brought back Rolston, we gave him too much money, too many years, we are so old. We suck, I should read this thread and cry, oh my God, we might lose 6 games maybe 10 to the rangers next year, time for me to hang myself...I should log off right now and end it all. Lou is the worst GM in the world...hes so old, just like the devils. Long post, please read. Please read. Oh Sangy, oh Cherry, oh Potty, oh baby JD. Its all over, NJD getting the lottery pick. Tavares is a devil, oh no wait he will demand trade, nobody wants to play in the hood. Look at my post, look at my post.

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07-10-2008, 09:49 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by ALine9900 View Post
Avery was a thorn in New Jersey's side ever since he came to NYC. Losing him is going to make the Rangers a lot easier to play against, sorry. IMO anyway.
Maybe, but this team is deeper and more balanced than last year's team.

Not to mention, younger, faster, and stronger.

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Originally Posted by sattar18 View Post
And why the hell are people bashing white, i would like to see how many people would even consider playing in the nhl with one eye.
I don't bash him because he has one eye, I bash him because he's a cheapshot artist with mediocre talent, at best, and would be a 7th defenseman on a championship caliber team.

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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
hes the devils fan whipping boy. hes better then girardi, mara, and kalinin and currently bettter then staal. you guys underrate him white so muhc
BETTER THAN STAAL LMFAO

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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post


Heaven forbid you re-sign your #1 scorer... and then probably wave goodbye to your #4 scorer too... because they're 'TOO OLD'.
Shanahan is burning out, and can't play in a top-6 role anymore.

Jagr wanted 14 million over 2 years, you think he's worth that much after his pitiful performance from October to February?

He had 3 power play goal droughts that lasted 10 or more games, including one that spanned 31 games.

Maybe you should watch the Rangers more instead of talking about them and pretending to have a clue.

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Good to see you're going with youth like Dubinsky and his 40pts rather than Jagr and Shanny with their 147 pts.

Good moves; better post.
Jagr has declined 30 goals and 50 points from 06. Shanahan hasn't been the same since Renney burned him out about half-way through the 06-07 season, and then the Knuble collision completely killed his year.

They're getting older, and their play is declining with that age. It's not going to get better from here on out with them.

Avery is another story, but to Sather's credit, he offered him 3 years, 12 million, and Pat Morris never called Sather back and went to Dallas for 750K more a year.

Clearly with Avery, he didn't give a crap about playing in NY, he just cared about the money.

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Originally Posted by devils4check View Post
Hey your right. thats what the 94 rangers said.

might as well buy the edmonton oilers...
Buy the Edmonton Oilers? They were all TRADED for.

Messier & Beukeboom: for Nicholls, Rice, and DeBrusk
Lowe: RFA signing.
MacTavish: for Marchant
Tikkanen: for Weight
Anderson: for Gartner

Next time, do your homework.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
well this is lose lose for me. i can A) name the 20 teams, give and give a legitimate argument but still people will argue with me just for the sake of arguing or B) not list the 20 teams and people will be saying " he cant do it because white sucks and every ranger defenseman is better then him"

so im going to choose B because there are many people that like to argu just for the sake of arguing
Maybe it's because there aren't 20 teams that would take Colin White over Marc Staal.

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07-10-2008, 09:50 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
BETTER THAN STAAL LMFAO

Maybe it's because there aren't 20 teams that would take Colin White over Marc Staal.
Selection B!!

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