I don't know - I guess I'd hedge my bets and work out a trade deal conditional upon him not re-signing before his arbitration hearing, meanwhile negotiating with his agent to try to convince him to sign long-term. If nothing is agreed upon before his arbitration hearing, get the arbiter's decision, sign the contract, then pull the trigger on the trade deal.
But there's probably NHL rules against that.
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"...and ultimately it doesn't matter."
Vokoun deal has no direct (Only very marginal indirect) corrolation with the Luongo deal. Therefore he cannot be considered a return. Matthias is to an extent a return, but again not directly involved with that trade. Assessing that trade must be refined to the trade itself, and not other trades after.
Stillman has nothing do with the OJ trade. We could have signed with OJ, or a different return for OJ.
I voted trade him. Not because I desperately want to see Bouwmeester traded to the Oilers (which I do), but because I feel it's probably in the best interest of the Panthers organization.
- He'll be harder to move later in the offseason and during the year than it is now because teams will not have the cap/budget space or roster flexibility to bring in a guy with Jbo's pricetag. With less teams able to add his salary, the less teams there will be to enter any bidding war. Trading him at the deadline only limits the return to non-roster players and draft picks from playoff-bound teams, and the draft is never a good time to trade established players (particularly ones about to become UFAs)
- Having a player on the team that doesn't want to be there can be more damaging than not having a good player like Jay on the ice. A relatively young team like the Panthers can't afford to have that kind of distraction or it will kill their chances of a good season.
- The return should be very good for a player like him, and there are many holes that need to be filled. Bouwmeester could go a long way in making that happen, and addressing the depth issues the Panthers have.
- You don't have to worry about him walking away for nothing next year.
- The sooner it's done, the sooner everyone can move on, and focus on improving the team and getting them to the playoffs. The last thing you want is to have the Bouwmeester saga always in the back of your mind (as a player, managment, or a fan).
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If you are offended by this post, it's probably because you're ugly.
I voted to trade him because I'm a Bruins fan and want to see J-Bo in Boston. We (like probably 90% of the teams in the NHL) could really use a player like him... I do think he'll have more value now than he will at the trade deadline, especially if he's only on a 1 year contract. Things could get complicated at the deadline if you get a team looking for a 24 hour window to negotiate an extension, and if you're trading him strictly as a rental you won't get as much return.
You'll also have plenty of teams making offers for him now while you might find less of a market at the deadline if teams that are interested now aren't in the playoff hunt at the end of the year.
I voted trade him. Not because I desperately want to see Bouwmeester traded to the Oilers (which I do), but because I feel it's probably in the best interest of the Panthers organization.
- He'll be harder to move later in the offseason and during the year than it is now because teams will not have the cap/budget space or roster flexibility to bring in a guy with Jbo's pricetag. With less teams able to add his salary, the less teams there will be to enter any bidding war. Trading him at the deadline only limits the return to non-roster players and draft picks from playoff-bound teams, and the draft is never a good time to trade established players (particularly ones about to become UFAs)
- Having a player on the team that doesn't want to be there can be more damaging than not having a good player like Jay on the ice. A relatively young team like the Panthers can't afford to have that kind of distraction or it will kill their chances of a good season.
- The return should be very good for a player like him, and there are many holes that need to be filled. Bouwmeester could go a long way in making that happen, and addressing the depth issues the Panthers have.
- You don't have to worry about him walking away for nothing next year.
- The sooner it's done, the sooner everyone can move on, and focus on improving the team and getting them to the playoffs. The last thing you want is to have the Bouwmeester saga always in the back of your mind (as a player, managment, or a fan).
I voted "Keep him...try to convince him to re-sign during season...move him at trade deadline if he won't." but the more I think about it the more it bites us in the ass...
I voted "Keep him...try to convince him to re-sign during season...move him at trade deadline if he won't." but the more I think about it the more it bites us in the ass...
This is very true. And Bouw has put us in this bind. The more I think about it, the more I think "**** it, ship him off."
Of course, there will be people here who think JM was just being cheap and wouldn't pony up what he deserves... but most of us realize that's a bunch of crap.
If you can move him now (before his arbitration hearing), he holds greater value as the team trading for him can work out a long term deal prior to the hearing and thus the return would be better.
If Bouwmeester can turn into Carter, Vermette/Meszaros, Frolov, etc., trade his butt. Sure franchise Dmen are harder to come by, but I think our defense is a lot better than it has been in the past, and to add talent to the lines up front can really benefit us in the long run. While the D will take a hit with Bouw leaving, a deal like Vermette/Meszaros would put us in a better position than we were before IMO. If we can land a monster like Frolov for example, I think its a no brainer. But Bouw needs to be traded soon, if not, now. Let the team getting him have as much time as possible to get a long term deal done, because even though nothing has been said, its pretty obvious he doesnt want to be here.
Do you think JM would trade him to TO for package that includes Kubina + Steen + Stralman.
P.S no way CLIFF deals a 1st rounder
Funny, there is absolutely nothing on the leafs that we or any other team would want and much less for Bouw. and he doesn't want to trade the pick?? plus, didn't you guiys sign finger to some ridiculous contract, so he should be your next stud on defense. LOL
the only teams worth trading for that I can think of and possible starting point for packages are:
ottawa -- vermette, mezeros, neil
edmonton -- hemsky, gilbert
detroit -- kronwall, fillipula/franzen
montreal -- komisarek, gilbert, latendresse
of course more players would be invovled and we have need the team to take some of martin's dead weight from his complete failure in last year free agency
Funny, there is absolutely nothing on the leafs that we or any other team would want and much less for Bouw. and he doesn't want to trade the pick?? plus, didn't you guiys sign finger to some ridiculous contract, so he should be your next stud on defense. LOL
the only teams worth trading for that I can think of and possible starting point for packages are:
ottawa -- vermette, mezeros, neil
edmonton -- hemsky, gilbert
detroit -- kronwall, fillipula/franzen
montreal -- komisarek, gilbert, latendresse
of course more players would be invovled and we have need the team to take some of martin's dead weight from his complete failure in last year free agency
The only package their that rivals mine is the Detroit one, and that could never happen b/c of the cap. Kubina is already a proven number 2 d-man and Stralman is a stud prospect who (if u watch him) is very comparable to Tomas Kaberle. On top of this I included Steen a dynamic two way player who is still young and could easily get 60+ points if given ice time. I hate to disapoint you but you are dealing in a position of weakness here. BTW how could you possibly take the OTT and Montreal deals over mine, that tells me a) you dont know what the hell you are talking about or b) you aren't to familiar with the players i mentioned.
Funny, there is absolutely nothing on the leafs that we or any other team would want and much less for Bouw. and he doesn't want to trade the pick?? plus, didn't you guiys sign finger to some ridiculous contract, so he should be your next stud on defense. LOL
This is especially funny coming from a Florida fan, and buddy i hate to disapoint you but if you compare the two rosters as well as their prospect pools im sure you will take back your comments.
Stralman
Steen
Tlusty
Kulemin
Schenn
Pogge
Grabovski
Hayes
Stefanovich
All of these players are fairly young with tremendous potential and your not interested in any.
Funny, there is absolutely nothing on the leafs that we or any other team would want and much less for Bouw. and he doesn't want to trade the pick?? plus, didn't you guiys sign finger to some ridiculous contract, so he should be your next stud on defense. LOL
the only teams worth trading for that I can think of and possible starting point for packages are:
ottawa -- vermette, mezeros, neil
edmonton -- hemsky, gilbert
detroit -- kronwall, fillipula/franzen
montreal -- komisarek, gilbert, latendresse
of course more players would be invovled and we have need the team to take some of martin's dead weight from his complete failure in last year free agency
To answer all of your comments at once, we all know the typical leafs fan, everything in the hockey universe revolves around that team, even though for all of its history they haven't won the cup since 67. Every prospect is great and every other team is itching to give them their best talent for a bunch of potential guys and salary dumps. With that said, I'll admit that as an organization we are a laughingstock, becasue we have had year after year of the most incompetent management of any professional sports team, even worse than you guys, and it is the only reason we might get hosed on this deal too becasue I strongly disagree with you that we are not in a position of power. Bouw has tremendous value and his name alone is a huge pickup for many teams. If martin does this right and creates a bidding war we can get top market for him, unforutnaley I think he will try to hold onto him and then be forced to trade him with no leverage at the worst time. With that said, Kubina is not that great. Remember that he played in tampa and we got him 8 times a year. He is physical, has a good shot, but is very inconsistent. I would take any of the defensemen I mentioned over him any day. You are severly overrating the other two, and you can't tell me that they are a better package than Vermette or Hemsky who are proven scorers.
