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Old
07-14-2008, 11:21 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Dont worry, that is coming from the guy who think Brandon Reid has what it takes to play in the NHL.
Ah come on...that's unfair. BR was on a 23 goal/60 point pace in 02/03..

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07-15-2008, 02:57 AM
  #177
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Still not convinced that the rumoured amount is the truth. If it is I'm completely wrong and have no idea what they intend to do.

I like Krog but nothing more than a depth signing who can help out the top six during injuries and lead the Moose to a Calder Cup.
Would he get back through waivers?

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07-15-2008, 03:25 AM
  #178
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interesting signing.

The thing about the AHL today is, that if you can put up 80 points in 44 games at the AHL, then the AHL is too easy for you, and of course you need to be challenged at the NHL level.

He might be the late boomer type. Dont wanna sound out of this world, but Henrik Sedin might not be able to put up 80 points in 44 games in the AHL.

Anyways, Gillis signed a player that will try no matter what. Not a lazy ball player, who was signed to 6 million dollars and will stop trying. He knows Krog will try to make a name for himself in the NHL and try all out.

It might work out, or it might not work. Gillis did say hes gonna try some things, might work out, might not work.

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07-15-2008, 04:18 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
interesting signing.

The thing about the AHL today is, that if you can put up 80 points in 44 games at the AHL, then the AHL is too easy for you, and of course you need to be challenged at the NHL level.

He might be the late boomer type. Dont wanna sound out of this world, but Henrik Sedin might not be able to put up 80 points in 44 games in the AHL.
Anyways, Gillis signed a player that will try no matter what. Not a lazy ball player, who was signed to 6 million dollars and will stop trying. He knows Krog will try to make a name for himself in the NHL and try all out.

It might work out, or it might not work. Gillis did say hes gonna try some things, might work out, might not work.

Henrik Sedin would put up 80+ assists in 44 games in the ahl. The sedins would own the puck in the ahl.

late bloomer at age 32?

Not saying krog won't be able to make the team, he might, but if he makes our top 6 either hes improved by tenfolds since leaving the nhl or our team sucks.

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07-15-2008, 09:05 AM
  #180
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Would he get back through waivers?
He would required waivers everytime he gets sent down or is called up but given his age and salary I doubt any team would try and get him off waivers.

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07-15-2008, 10:21 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Vector View Post
He would required waivers everytime he gets sent down or is called up but given his age and salary I doubt any team would try and get him off waivers.
Actually, he wouldn't go through re-entry waivers because he hasn't played enough games in the NHL recently.

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#2 above does not apply to a player who

1. If a goalie, the goalie has played in 180 or more professional games [NHL, AHL, or ECHL; regular season and playoffs] or, if a skater, 320 or more professional games; AND
2. Has not spent more than 80 games on an NHL roster in the prior 2 seasons or 40 or more games on an NHL roster in the immediately prior season.
I caught this about his salary in the news this morning:

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The fact the Canucks were able to lure Krog, who also led the Chicago Wolves to the Calder Cup this past spring, back to North America after the skilled centre had signed a lucrative deal to play in Russia (rumoured to be worth seven figures) is definitely noteworthy.

With a one-year, one-way deal supposedly worth somewhere in the neighbourhood of $750,000 in his back pocket, we expect Krog will be given every opportunity to make the Canucks -- who are always on the lookout for offensive contributors in the quest to find secondary scoring.
http://winnipegsun.com/Sports/Hockey...59706-sun.html

If that's true it's not as bad as previously thought. Obviously they had to pay a premium to stop him from going overseas, especially considering the differences in taxation between the two countries.

EDIT: A couple other notes from the Province:

Quote:
"He [Gillis] said it's a new year and he's coming in with no prior expectations for anyone, so there's some opportunity," added Krog. "Whoever shows that they can play in camp is going to get a chance.

"That's why I signed here. I had the opportunity to go over to Europe, but the only way I was going to stay here is if I got a good chance. I've always been on that fine line between the NHL and the AHL."

...

"He's coming off a great season that adds to a player's versatility and leadership," said Gillis. "We're trying to get to a more aggressive team with lots of elements that lead to leadership.

"I don't think we've left any stones unturned in trying to acquire players who add something to our lineup. We want to create competition at training camp with jobs on the line."

...

"I was a centre in Anaheim, but also played left wing and right wing and anywhere from the first to fourth line. Hopefully, my versatility can help out. I take pride in faceoffs and the penalty kill and wherever they [Canucks] need me."
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...0-e1467a0e3cc4


Last edited by pitseleh: 07-15-2008 at 10:38 AM.
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07-15-2008, 10:52 AM
  #182
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I'm guessing Krog sees this as is "final last shot" at the NHL. Probably could have signed for more money over seas but wants to take one more try at the NHL. If he has a great year by his standards (by great I mean over 15 goals and 40 points) he has probably earned one more long term contract.
I'd say that's about as much motivation as you can get.

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07-15-2008, 10:56 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
STUFF
That's more in-line what I expected. Seems if he doesn't make the team he'll be paid a premium to help lead to the Moose to a potential Calder Cup. Thanks for clearing up the re-entry waiver issue, I thought he had played enough NHL games.

If it's what I suspect it's a very good move. He's an elite AHL star and can provide offensive depth if any of the top-6 get injured, etc. I've said everything before and will stand by what I have said. We won't know anything concrete until after training camp.

Edit: Eric Boguniecki keeps popping into my head. He was 27/28 years old when he finally got a shot at the NHL and had 22-27-49 in 80 games.


Last edited by Vector: 07-15-2008 at 10:58 AM. Reason: Boguniecki factor!
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07-15-2008, 11:19 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Actually, he wouldn't go through re-entry waivers because he hasn't played enough games in the NHL recently.
If someone is more familiar with the CBA, please correct me:
If Krog does not make the team out of camp, they can demote him and subsequently recall him without exposing him to waivers.
On the other hand, if he plays just one NHL game this year, he becomes waiver-eligible thereafter since he is over 25 years old.

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07-15-2008, 11:25 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Pettinger is not a "light-weight" offensive player, he's a 6-1 210 grinder. Pettinger and Pyatt could be compared perhaps. But Pettinger plays nothing like Raymond, Wellwood or Krog. I do agree however, there is not room for all of them. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see Raymond end up in the minors to start the season. I can't see Pettinger moved myself. He hasn't created any worth and a decent asset was sacrificed in order to obtain him ( I realize it was a different GM), he has upside and decent size. An excellent 4th liner in this league in my opinion, but has proved nothing, no point in trading him for a 6th or 7th (Hollweg drew a 5th). You're right, we only need a couple undersized offensive players, my guess is that it's Krog and Wellwood who make the team.

D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Bernier
Demitra -****** - Pyatt
Burrows - Kesler - Krog/Wellwood
Hordichuk - Johnson - Pettinger

The space is where I expect a forward to be added. Personally I think as things stand, this is our best line-up.
For the most part, I agree with your line up assessment. Hordichuk though I think will be used as our 13th forward. Inserted only when the coach feels he may be needed.

Gillis indicated some time ago that he wasn't planning to build a team that had set lines, but instead was very flexable with interchangeable parts. He also said he was looking for players that not only were intelligent, fast and gritty, but he also said he was looking for players he felt other teams were miss-using and under-rating. Wellwood, Krog and Davison all fall into that category. If they all work out we have ourselves a pretty strong team with or without Sundin.

Based on the above, I think Gillis is also trying to accomplish three other things. First, I think he is trying to break the stereotyping of Kesler's line as a shutdown line only. I think he wants to establish a top nine rather than a top six and to have only the fourth line to be totally defensive oriented.

Second I think Gillis is trying to build the team around a combination of speed and grit. Though it would be nice that each player had both, I think he realizes that not all players will be, but wants all players to at least bring one of those two traits to the team.

Third, I think Gillis wants to develop our draft picks as much as he can in the minors and not to make it a given that those players will automaticly be penciled in to the Canucks roster the following season. He is accumulating players like Wellwood and Krog of whom players like Raymond, Hansen and Grabner will have to prove they can displace if they want to earn a Canuck roster spot. This is much on the same lines as Detroit and Colorado.

If Krog, Wellwood and Davison prove they can play regularily in the NHL and we do sign Sundin, I see our starting line up as this: Total cap hit: $55.97 mil.

Demitra - Sundin - Wellwood
Daniel - Henrik - Bernier
Pyatt - Kesler - Krog
Burrows - Johnson - Pettinger
Hordichuk

Ohlund - Bieksa
Mitchell - Salo
Edler - Krajicek
Davison

Luongo
Sanford


Last edited by Hi-wayman: 07-15-2008 at 12:04 PM.
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07-15-2008, 11:25 AM
  #186
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What's more depressing? No new Sundin news? (Aside from the TFP report that Sundin is fishing all week with his family and not close to a decision) or the fact we are stuck talking about Jason Krog.

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07-15-2008, 12:21 PM
  #187
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Don't know if this has been mentioned - it probably has - but Krog is by no means a "kid". He'll be 33 come the start of the season.

He reminds me a bit of Jason Jaffray (not his playing style, I've never seen Krog play)...Just in the sense that he's a guy that can absolutely dominate the AHL but for one reason or another just doesn't have the success when stepping up to the NHL.

I really hope he isn't anywhere near our roster come October though. If this is a "backup plan" for Sundin not signing, it's a terrible one. There are much better targets (Vermette) for a "plan B" if Sundin goes to Montreal.
This is where you and I disagree. Personally I find the acquistion of Krog an excellent move by Gillis. First, it required no loss of assets by the Canucks where as that would not be the case to acquire Vermette or someone similar. Second, Krog is not similar to Jaffray. Jaffray would have been a successful NHLer if he could have skated better and if the Canucks had a regular LW bottom six roster opening. Krog doesn't have Jaffray's skating limitation and has regularily shown far more offensive skill than Jaffray. Common sense says anyone who can put up the numbers that Krog does in the AHL has to have the ability to play in the NHL. I think he has just been on the wrong team at the wrong time and has been mis-used relative to the skills he brings to the table.

Equally, Wellwood has shown he has the skill set to be a top six NHL player, but has also been mis-used and allowed to think a roster spot didn't have to be earned, but was an automatic.

If these two players can be turned around, the Canucks are all the stonger for these signings.

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07-15-2008, 03:36 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
This is where you and I disagree. Personally I find the acquistion of Krog an excellent move by Gillis. First, it required no loss of assets by the Canucks where as that would not be the case to acquire Vermette or someone similar. Second, Krog is not similar to Jaffray. Jaffray would have been a successful NHLer if he could have skated better and if the Canucks had a regular LW bottom six roster opening. Krog doesn't have Jaffray's skating limitation and has regularily shown far more offensive skill than Jaffray. Common sense says anyone who can put up the numbers that Krog does in the AHL has to have the ability to play in the NHL. I think he has just been on the wrong team at the wrong time and has been mis-used relative to the skills he brings to the table.

Equally, Wellwood has shown he has the skill set to be a top six NHL player, but has also been mis-used and allowed to think a roster spot didn't have to be earned, but was an automatic.

If these two players can be turned around, the Canucks are all the stonger for these signings.
Fair enough. I can understand what you're saying. My point was just, that if Krog is your backup plan should Sundin not sign, it could turn out to be a disaster. If he's penciled anywhere near the top 6 come October he could just be another good-great AHL player that can't hack it on the top 6 of an NHL squad. Is there a chance Krog could produce some decent numbers? Sure there is, but I would rather pay what it takes to get a proven NHL commodity like Vermette who we know is going to put up proper top 6 numbers.

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07-15-2008, 07:26 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Common sense says anyone who can put up the numbers that Krog does in the AHL has to have the ability to play in the NHL.
You mean like Darren Haydar (122 points in 73 games played) and Kirby Law (110 points in 80 games played) the 2006-2007 and 2005-2006 AHL scoring leaders?

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07-15-2008, 07:34 PM
  #190
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You mean like Darren Haydar (122 points in 73 games played) and Kirby Law (110 points in 80 games played) the 2006-2007 and 2005-2006 AHL scoring leaders?
To be fair, the jury is still out on Darren Haydar who amassed 8 points in 16 games last season with the Trashers which is decent. Also, Kirby Law was never given a real opportunity who only played 9 games in the NHL throughout his hockey career.

What intrigues me about Jason Krog is he put 80 points in 40 games, which is a phenomenal rate in any second-tier league. He is also versatile who can PK, win face-offs, and play any wing which means he possess some attributes that can benefit the Canucks rather than just being career ahl fodder. Ultimately, he adds depth and brings competition to training camp tha can result in some players pushing harder to make the roster for this upcoming season.

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07-15-2008, 07:34 PM
  #191
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Maybe this move replaces Pyatt on the third line with Kesler and Burrows, giving them the ability to move Pyatt IF Sundin does ever sign.

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07-15-2008, 07:37 PM
  #192
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Maybe this move replaces Pyatt on the third line with Kesler and Burrows, giving them the ability to move Pyatt IF Sundin does ever sign.
This might be a likely situation considering if Sundin signs and Gillis wants to add another top 6 winger, he cannot afford to add more salary under the circumstances of Sundin signing.

Pyatt+Defenceman = 5.75 million to bring in a top 6 player and provide some breathing room under the cap.

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07-15-2008, 07:52 PM
  #193
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I was cruising around behindthenet.ca, and I thought this article was relevant given Krog's proficiency in taking faceoffs (58.5% and 60.4% in his two full NHL seasons). It's a bit of an older article, but I think the point is probably still valid. If you're not a stats fan, it's probably not worth reading though:

Quote:
In this case, the outcome is much more significant. In the first seven seconds after a face-off in your own end, you are 10 times more likely to be scored on if you lost the draw than if you won it. In fact, more than 10% of all the goals in the NHL during the 2003-04 season were allowed within 20 seconds of a team losing a face-off in its own defensive zone. Overall, that means that one out of every 40 lost face-offs resulted in a goal in the next 20 seconds. In a league where teams score just 2.5 goals per game, that makes a significant difference.

...

The most significant result of this analysis is that teams should use their best face-off men on face-offs deep in their own end to decrease the likelihood of being scored on. Similarly, they should also use their best face-offs takers in the offensive zone. If a team improves its face-off winning percentage in these situations from 50% to 60% (say, by signing Yanic Perreault, assuming all other things are equal), it can expect, on average, to improve its goal differential by 25 goals over the course of the season. In today’s NHL, this translates into an additional three or four wins, which is obviously an advantage any team would take.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/faceoff.html

I hadn't realized that there was such a huge impact from winning faceoffs. It'll be interesting to see if bringing in great faceoff guys like Krog, Wellwood and Johnson has a tangible impact on the results of the team next season.

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07-16-2008, 12:52 AM
  #194
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What's more depressing? No new Sundin news? (Aside from the TFP report that Sundin is fishing all week with his family and not close to a decision) or the fact we are stuck talking about Jason Krog.
On July 1st when the offer was made, it was later said, Sundin does not plan to make a decision until August.

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07-16-2008, 01:25 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
It'll be interesting to see if bringing in great faceoff guys like Krog, Wellwood and Johnson has a tangible impact on the results of the team next season.
It has been interesting watching the parade of good faceoff men come in. Interesting to see Gillis immediately address one of the most publicized problems with the team last year.

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07-16-2008, 02:24 AM
  #196
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Holy crap this guy is 32?

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07-16-2008, 02:58 AM
  #197
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I love how almost nowhere in the North American press it's mentioned that Jason Krog has a current contract with KHL's Severstal Cherepovets that he just signed in May. Regardless of the status of the player this is no different than the whole Radulov saga, but since it goes the other way the North American media and the NHL prefer to keep this fact to themselves. Double standard, as usual.

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07-16-2008, 03:02 AM
  #198
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I love how almost nowhere in the North American press it's mentioned that Jason Krog has a current contract with KHL's Severstal Cherepovets that he just signed in May. Regardless of the status of the player this is no different than the whole Radulov saga, but since it goes the other way the North American media and the NHL prefer to keep this fact to themselves. Double standard, as usual.
Since I was aware of it, I'm pretty sure it has to have been mentioned in a few places.

Since nobody seems to have made a big noise about it out of the KHL, and I'd assume they would have immediately jumped all over it, I just figured he must have had an NHL release clause or something.

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07-16-2008, 03:35 AM
  #199
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If Krog earns a spot in training camp and Sundin signs then the Canucks could give Kessler a try on the top line as a winger. If Kessler could be as good as I think he could be on a line of Demitra-Sundin-Kessler then the Canucks dont need a top six forward. Wellwood is also a obvious potential top six forward. Really as long as Sundin signs I dont see any real need for the Canucks to do anything until the season starts and they can see whats working ans whats not.

Demitra-Sundin-Kessler
Sedin-Sedin-Bernier
Raymond-Krog-Wellwood
Pyatt-Johnson-Pettinger
Hordichuck

Thats a pretty good and balanced forward group. Kessler gives the 1st line someone who can go infront of the net and get some dirty goals and tip ins, Bernier does the same for the sedin line, the third line is another great offensive line with lots of potential, and the 4th line is a good checking line that can also score.
Like I said I dont see any need for a trade except to dump salary, and someone like Pyatt can be that player since he would be the highest paid depth guy.

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07-16-2008, 07:52 AM
  #200
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If Krog earns a spot in training camp and Sundin signs then the Canucks could give Kessler a try on the top line as a winger. If Kessler could be as good as I think he could be on a line of Demitra-Sundin-Kessler then the Canucks dont need a top six forward. Wellwood is also a obvious potential top six forward. Really as long as Sundin signs I dont see any real need for the Canucks to do anything until the season starts and they can see whats working ans whats not.

Demitra-Sundin-Kessler
Sedin-Sedin-Bernier
Raymond-Krog-Wellwood
Pyatt-Johnson-Pettinger
Hordichuck

Thats a pretty good and balanced forward group. Kessler gives the 1st line someone who can go infront of the net and get some dirty goals and tip ins, Bernier does the same for the sedin line, the third line is another great offensive line with lots of potential, and the 4th line is a good checking line that can also score.
Like I said I dont see any need for a trade except to dump salary, and someone like Pyatt can be that player since he would be the highest paid depth guy.
I don't see that lineup working well.

First of all - Kesler - with one "S" - is not as good on the wing. He's a prototypical shutdown center, and you're not improving your team when you take the best shutdown/defensive center you have and plug him on the wing in an offensive role. Kesler *belongs* centering the 3rd unit.

Secondly, where is Burrows?? They guy had a solid season last year, and had great chemistry with Kesler... why split them up??

Thirdly, I don't see Wellwood in a 3rd line role... same with Raymond... these are offensive players and sticking them on the 3rd line hurts your defensive presence and doesn't give them the type of icetime they need to succeed. And even with a more offensive system, I can't see AV abandoning his defensive assignments...

simply put, Kesler and Burrows manning the 3rd line makes this team better... why would you split up 2/3rd of one of the top shutdown/checking units in the league to put them in roles that doesn't suit them (like putting Kesler in a weaker position on a scoring line)??

IMO, again if Sundin signs, you go with 4 combos of 2 guys, and plug in the other guys depending on how works in camp...

Sundin-Demitra
Sedin-Sedin
Burrows-Kesler
Pettinger-Johnson

Plug in 2 in the top 6 from Raymond/Bernier/Shannon/Wellwood/Grabner/Pyatt depending on who wins in the jobs.... the ones that don't make it either get traded (like Pyatt), or sent down to the minors.

Plug in 2 guys in the bottom 6 from Hansen/Krog/Hordichuk/Cowan/etc depending on who wins the jobs.

That keeps guys together who have shown chemistry (Burrows/Kesler) and keeps all the players in roles that they are suited for - ie. not having a small, soft, defensively unreliable players like Shannon or Wellwood playing in your bottom 6.

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