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could the canucks get kovalev? should they?

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Old
02-19-2004, 11:04 AM
  #26
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
that regardless of a players performance in a certain city, it doesn't really reduce his value.

If you can justify King's 11 goals, then you can justify the fact that Kovalev has proven that he cannot cut it in NY and that a move anywhere else in which there is an actual system run by a competent coach he will flourish.

Under normal circumstances, Kovalev would not be dealt without a 1st rounder coming back, but this is sather and he's an idiot to Umberger and King could quite possibly get it done, but if Craig Patrick was the GM of the Rangers, add a 1st to King and Umberger.
In theory, you're right. In practice, you're dead wrong. I could cite examples over and over, so I'll just do one - Tony Amonte. His value in Chicago was huge. Wasn't so huge when he went to Philly, though.

Quote:
As for the comparison to Bondra, somwehat fair, but Kovalev is almost 5 years younger and still in his prime years.
I agree, but you also must remember that with Bondra, he's playing like he's 3 years younger, and Bondra had a team option on his contract, Kovalev does not. Kovalev will be a full-fledged UFA this coming off-season.

I would argue their value is almost dead similar.

That said, I would move Kirril Koltsov and a conditional pick (1st if he's resigned by July 1st, 3rd if not) for him. He is my favorite of the possible Canuck 2nd line pickups, and with the Sedin Twins, if resigned, I could see him scoring 30 goals quite easily.

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02-19-2004, 11:20 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
In theory, you're right. In practice, you're dead wrong. I could cite examples over and over, so I'll just do one - Tony Amonte. His value in Chicago was huge. Wasn't so huge when he went to Philly, though.
True, but there was a large contract that went with Amonte as well.

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02-19-2004, 11:49 AM
  #28
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[QUOTE=Jackson Ranger]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVal575
FAR FAR FAR too much to give up for Kovalev. he still has a hefty sum to pay for a rental.[/QUOTE

Do you know exactly what hefty sum he has left on his contract which pays him every two weeks until the end of the REGULAR season?

Let's break it down so it's easier to digest. The season is six months long and say Kovalev's salary is six million dollars a year (just giving numbers that are easy to understand). The Rangers therefore, have paid 5/6 of his salary or five million dollars. The balance is one million. Now, is this a hefty sum to pay for a rental??? Keep in mind, the Rangers could kick in a little to help a team pay the rest of the contract for this season.

In my mind, it's not a lot of money considering the rewards of playing more home games in the playoffs if the team is successful and that is where teams make their money.

If you want to say that Kovalev isn't equal to Bondra, go ahead, that's your opinion. But I don't buy the "hefty sum" argument.
I think what he probably means is giving up two decent prospects and a first rounder PLUS having to pay Kovalev $1 M is hefty for a rental. I like the deal if either one of the three were taken out(likely the 1st rounder). But hey, if the Rangers are willing to pick up salary, all the mroe better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brizash!
give up all your picks for kovalev.....he would regain his scoring touch in vancouver. you already are the most exciting team in the league but with him you'd be AMAZING!!
If Burke does an impression of Bobby Clarke, fans are going to lynch him. Granted, Kovalev is talented, but cripes, he's UFA at season's end. Who knows how much he's going to want...

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02-19-2004, 12:14 PM
  #29
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Hey npinguy. Long time no read. I have certainly found this site better for hockey knowledge, if not so active with other controversial topics.

I think Kovalev is exactly the kind of guy that would thrive for us in the playoffs. I would really hesitate to give up Koltsov though. I think he could be a cornerstone offensive d for a long time to come. King and Umberger as has been said would be about as high as I personally would go. But who knows what the true value is.

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02-19-2004, 01:15 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy
You put kovalev with the sedins..........everybody would be paying attention to kovalev forgetting they can score too and they WILL

And there's only 1.2 mill left in his contract for this year.....


Do you think this could happen? And would it be good for the canucks? And what would it cost?

Something like.......


Umburger (selfish basttard, wants to play in new york, should fit right in on the rangers), King (the trade bait), and a 1st round pick


edit: this is a proposal

edit also: i meant to say Umburger wants to play in the US, NOT new york. Just the US. But New York would work
How about Cooke and Fedorov and a third for Kovalev.

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02-19-2004, 01:26 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVal575
FAR FAR FAR too much to give up for Kovalev. he still has a hefty sum to pay for a rental.
Fine. Then lose in the playoffs.

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Old
02-19-2004, 02:06 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
How about Cooke and Fedorov and a third for Kovalev.
If that is what Kovalev costs, then the Canucks are better off getting Oneill who probably wouldn't cost too much more than that and is signed beyond this year.

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Old
02-19-2004, 02:15 PM
  #33
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Knowing the tendencies of Brian Burke, he's going to just acqquire a depth defenseman, and keep the forward positions intact the way they are now. However, I think if he were to pursue an offensive weapon, it would be good if he did look at Kovalev.

We all know Jeff O'Neill's price is very high at the moment, and Bryan Allen would have to be thrown into a package to even get the Canes thinking, which isn't going to happen from a Canucks perspective. Kovalev has a tiny bit left on his contract, his price won't be too high, he's produced in the Playoffs before, and can really help our powerPlay.

The Canucks style of play can really bring out the best in Kovalev's game.

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02-19-2004, 02:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
True, but there was a large contract that went with Amonte as well.
Right, but he was also guarenteed to play that next season. Besides, it's not as if Kovalev is going to be signed for a half a million here, Singn

All that said, I think the Koltsov & the conditional pick makes a lot of sense. So long as another team doesn't trump it. It's about the same value as the Sens trade for Bondra, maybe a little bit more in fact.

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02-19-2004, 02:27 PM
  #35
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I like it as well...where do we sign?

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Old
02-19-2004, 02:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck you
We all know Jeff O'Neill's price is very high at the moment, and Bryan Allen would have to be thrown into a package to even get the Canes thinking, which isn't going to happen from a Canucks perspective.
I heard Rutherford say he wanted players that could play now. Allen qualifies, but so does Cooke. I don't think Allen HAS to be gone to get Oneill but i do think that someone off of the roster will.

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Old
02-19-2004, 02:48 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vee-Dub
I heard Rutherford say he wanted players that could play now. Allen qualifies, but so does Cooke. I don't think Allen HAS to be gone to get Oneill but i do think that someone off of the roster will.
Yeah, I understand that. Rutherford wants to get younger, cheaper, but with that, he wants players that can step in right now, not players who are a few years away, I'm sure he'd take good prospects as well, but I think the deal would have to be centered around a young player, with upside, who is currently on the roster, or who can step in at the NHL level and start developing their NHL game.

If the Canucks offer up Koltsov, King and a 1st, that may be a starting point, however I'm sure Rutherford could get more from other teams.

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Old
02-19-2004, 02:53 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
But are you guys positive that Kovalev will produce in Vancouver?
it is all but guaranteed that he'd produce there because he wouldn't be wearing a rangers jersey...the ranger jersey is like kryptonite for alex

watching kovalev this year every game, i can tell you with 99% certainty that if kovalev was playing for any other team he'd have 25-30 goals right now...

and kovalev doesn't work well under idiot coaches...so he'd thrive under crawford

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02-19-2004, 03:35 PM
  #39
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One point to clarify for those who keep arguing that Kovalev is a UFA at season's end: so is Umberger. Consider that when building your packages. The Rangers have just as much chjance of losing Umberger at the end of the season as the Nucks do of losing Kovalev.

In addition, the Rangers can simply sign Umberger over the summer and offer nothing for him now.

Honestly, you should really eliminate Umberger from proposals. There are simply too many reasons for the Rangers (or any team) not to take him or to offer very little of value for him.

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02-19-2004, 04:09 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
One point to clarify for those who keep arguing that Kovalev is a UFA at season's end: so is Umberger. Consider that when building your packages. The Rangers have just as much chjance of losing Umberger at the end of the season as the Nucks do of losing Kovalev.

In addition, the Rangers can simply sign Umberger over the summer and offer nothing for him now.

Honestly, you should really eliminate Umberger from proposals. There are simply too many reasons for the Rangers (or any team) not to take him or to offer very little of value for him.
If Umberger isn't signed though, the team gets a 2nd round pick as compensation. Not exactly nothing. Kovalev would also give a pick, but I don't think Vancouver has a low enough team salary to qualify for the compensation pick from Kovalev (potentially) leaving as an UFA.

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02-19-2004, 04:17 PM
  #41
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people mentioning cooke - he will NEVER be traded for a rental.

NEVER.

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02-19-2004, 04:21 PM
  #42
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I hope Alex stays in NY; I'd rather have him rebound here than somewhere else.

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02-19-2004, 04:49 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanguay40
If Umberger isn't signed though, the team gets a 2nd round pick as compensation. Not exactly nothing. Kovalev would also give a pick, but I don't think Vancouver has a low enough team salary to qualify for the compensation pick from Kovalev (potentially) leaving as an UFA.

As per the current CBA, present salary does not dictate compensation, FA signings do. So as per the current CBA if Kovy doesn't sign and Vancouver doesn't sign many FA then the comp. is higher.

The main question is what every other team is dealing with. What will the new CBA dictate?

I believe that Kovy for a high rated prospect and a high draft pick is a good deal.

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02-19-2004, 05:15 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy
people mentioning cooke - he will NEVER be traded for a rental.

NEVER.
Thanks for the heads up Mr. Burke.

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Old
02-19-2004, 06:53 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger
Do you know exactly what hefty sum he has left on his contract which pays him every two weeks until the end of the REGULAR season?

Let's break it down so it's easier to digest. The season is six months long and say Kovalev's salary is six million dollars a year (just giving numbers that are easy to understand). The Rangers therefore, have paid 5/6 of his salary or five million dollars. The balance is one million. Now, is this a hefty sum to pay for a rental??? Keep in mind, the Rangers could kick in a little to help a team pay the rest of the contract for this season.

In my mind, it's not a lot of money considering the rewards of playing more home games in the playoffs if the team is successful and that is where teams make their money.

If you want to say that Kovalev isn't equal to Bondra, go ahead, that's your opinion. But I don't buy the "hefty sum" argument.
perhaps i'll break it down to you

the scenario is the Canucks aquire him on March 9th. 12 games of his $6.6 million costs $1.05 million. this is not including any performance or other contract bonuses. that's over a million for 12 games + playoffs of Kovalev's services. that is almost enough to pay for Cooke and Sopel's contracts next year combined.

say the Canucks aquire Carter (as an example). his services would cost them just over 400k.

that is the first part of the hefty price. the second, is how much of their future the Canucks would have to give up. their 1st and 2nd round picks (since they lost their original 2nd rounder in the Hedberg trade, they will only have the one they recieve as compensation for Umberger), and a good prospect in King.

a 1st and 2nd round draft picks, Jason King, and $1 million+ for a couple dozen games worth of Kovalev is a hefty price.

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Old
02-19-2004, 07:13 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVal575
perhaps i'll break it down to you

the scenario is the Canucks aquire him on March 9th. 12 games of his $6.6 million costs $1.05 million. this is not including any performance or other contract bonuses. that's over a million for 12 games + playoffs of Kovalev's services. that is almost enough to pay for Cooke and Sopel's contracts next year combined.

say the Canucks aquire Carter (as an example). his services would cost them just over 400k.

that is the first part of the hefty price. the second, is how much of their future the Canucks would have to give up. their 1st and 2nd round picks (since they lost their original 2nd rounder in the Hedberg trade, they will only have the one they recieve as compensation for Umberger), and a good prospect in King.

a 1st and 2nd round draft picks, Jason King, and $1 million+ for a couple dozen games worth of Kovalev is a hefty price.
Since we are covering math here....If the expected # of games played in the playoffs at home increases by 1 game Kovalev's contract would have been paid for. Average CM of one playoff game is approx $1 million USD according to Burke last year assuming playoff prices stayed the same.

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Old
02-19-2004, 08:07 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
Since we are covering math here....If the expected # of games played in the playoffs at home increases by 1 game Kovalev's contract would have been paid for. Average CM of one playoff game is approx $1 million USD according to Burke last year assuming playoff prices stayed the same.
Exactly, the Canucks can't keep making these shortcuts at the deadline. they need to roll the dice a bit, Anson Carter has moved 3 times in 2 seasons, and he is playing relatively well in Washington.

When will the Canucks ever get a Playoff rental then? Do you expect them to never rent a player? I understand it is a hefty price to pay, but teams that want to win pay the price, teams that lose early in the Playoffs, never roll the dice, and stick to Brian Burke's "I'll only make a trade if its sensible" crap. I'm sick of a ton of teams upgrading at the deadline, especially every team around us in the standings, but we stand pat, or add a fringe 4th liner.

Brian Burke's rhetoric about how "there are so many bad deals and mistakes made at the deadline" is exactly that, rhetoric. If he doesn't deliver this deadline, and push this team and upgrade it enough to get far into the Playoffs, I'm fine with him walking at the end of the year. He's done a good job at keeping this team a competetive, and successful regular season team, but if he is unable to pull the deal that pushes this team over the top, I'm fine with him walking. Kovalev would be a good addition here, no doubt about that, and his price wouldsn't be that high since he is a UFA.

I'd offer up Umberger and a 1st. You may think its too much, but teams that want to win, roll the dice, simple as that.

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Old
02-19-2004, 09:22 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.I.RangerFan
As per the current CBA, present salary does not dictate compensation, FA signings do. So as per the current CBA if Kovy doesn't sign and Vancouver doesn't sign many FA then the comp. is higher.

The main question is what every other team is dealing with. What will the new CBA dictate?

I believe that Kovy for a high rated prospect and a high draft pick is a good deal.
I thought I remember in the summer a couple years ago when a few teams traded their UFA's just before the deadline for a low pick that it was done because they wouldn't get a pick if the player signed with another team cause they had too high of a salary. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, however.

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Old
02-19-2004, 10:31 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vee-Dub
Thanks for the heads up Mr. Burke.

it's true. He's a great agitator, has got great wheels, great hands, hits as hard as anybody in the league, is extremely popular in the locker room, and is just generally a great team player.


And he makes DIRT (around 500,000)


He ain't going anywhere.

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02-19-2004, 10:32 PM
  #50
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I'd like Kovalev

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