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could the canucks get kovalev? should they?

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Old
02-20-2004, 12:40 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrisweb
You're right but do you really think that adding 1 maybe 2 rental players is amazingly going to solve all of the Canucks problems?
If anything this shows that the Canucks have more problems that just a couple holes and they do.. they have a lot of question marks much more than any other contender. They should maybe make a trade for another core member or let the boys continue to develop. It's still a very young team, outside of Naslund and Linden everybody else is only going to continue to grow and get better.

Yes Naslund said he would like to go back to Sweden, but he also said if he felt the team was still competative he would stay.

Instead of forcing Burke into making some rash trades giving up a lot of our future lets make sure the rest of the team is ready first.
And in the midst of the shouting, a voice of reason was heard...

Seriously, I agree with you. It's more of a team problem right now, as shown by that complete embarassment in Minny. Holes can be filled via trades, but the way they are playing right now it wouldn't help if they managed to land Lang and Gonchar.

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02-20-2004, 01:06 PM
  #77
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I still think Jeff O'niel would be the better solution for Vancouver. He is cheaper, and he is an RFA. You trade for him, and you still have his rights.......if he doesn't resign, you get compensated via a draft pick. Jeff can play dominant......and frankly, I'd much rather roll the dice with him, then Alexi "who is going to show up" Kovalev.

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02-20-2004, 01:07 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck you
Very true, Burke and Nonis just need to step up and roll the dice, I said on another board that Burke has shown he can build a successful business, and make sure there is a profit coming in every year for this organisation, but has he shown he can make a hockey transaction that significantly upgrades this team, pushing it to another level? I don't think so, if Burke wants to spit out that crap about how he's sticking to the mold, and going to make deals if they are sensible, then thats going to be the demise of the Canucks in the PostSeason.

Burke should be a financial planner for a mortgage company if he wants to only focus on the financials, and not upgrading this team.

You could not have given Burke a greater compliment. I mean, just think about the owner's position here. He's making money and has the fan base at his mercy, what incentive is there for him to make a move? This team still has potential to go all the way without taking a gamble, and make a ton of money like last season. The franchise value will go up again, and even if we pull out in the first round, everyone will be back next year saying the same things. Look at it that way, then understand why there's no hurry to make a move from management's stand point.

Also, i think you're also the guy who said Burke would make a move for a depth dman, just like you'd expect him to. Didn't he acquire a forward last season, but the deal was snuffed out due to contract issues? I think you need to get a better grasp of Burke's tendencies before you go throwing out stuff like that. There's tons of time left, if the management feels that they can take a small monetary hit to possibly advance a round or two, they'll look at any deal.

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02-20-2004, 01:09 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I still think Jeff O'niel would be the better solution for Vancouver. He is cheaper, and he is an RFA. You trade for him, and you still have his rights.......if he doesn't resign, you get compensated via a draft pick. Jeff can play dominant......and frankly, I'd much rather roll the dice with him, then Alexi "who is going to show up" Kovalev.
I agree, if the Canucks are going to make a big splash and get a big name RW, I'd rather it was O'Neill.

Besides, there is about zero chance that Burke trades for Kovalev. Too expensive, he will be looking for a longer term move.

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02-20-2004, 06:06 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Leetch has another year on his contract at for $6,000,000. Burke's not going to be touching that.

King, Umberger, and a 1st for Kovalev? Where do I sign? Hell, they can have Fedorov too.

No way in hell we re-sign him, none, nada, zip, zilch. King umberger and 1st: for just one playoff? Maybe we can rent Gonchar for Koltsov, Kesler and 1st too?

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02-22-2004, 10:52 PM
  #81
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to all the people that say sather would laugh at something like chubarov and 1st for kovalev

(for example)


look at it this way:


you're going out of town, and your buddy says can i use your car while you're away? I'll pay you 100 bux.

When you get back, here's your car again, you can still use it, AND you got 100 bux!! IT'S PRACTICALLY FREE MONEY


It's the same thing with the rangers - they could trade away kovalev for a few months.....not affect their record at all...not affect their ticket prices at all...get some prospects...AND THEN IN THE SUMMER RE-SIGN KOVALEV AGAIN! Hell - they could agree to do that with him even BEFORE he is traded.

So next year, - they still got kovalev AND they got some prospects!! It's free prospects!!



I am fully convinced that sather would trade away kovalev for a bag of pucks is that's the best he was offered. The question is - who can offer more pucks. Vancouver? Or colorado/detroit/toronto/etc.

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02-22-2004, 11:20 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy
to all the people that say sather would laugh at something like chubarov and 1st for kovalev

(for example)


look at it this way:


you're going out of town, and your buddy says can i use your car while you're away? I'll pay you 100 bux.

When you get back, here's your car again, you can still use it, AND you got 100 bux!! IT'S PRACTICALLY FREE MONEY


It's the same thing with the rangers - they could trade away kovalev for a few months.....not affect their record at all...not affect their ticket prices at all...get some prospects...AND THEN IN THE SUMMER RE-SIGN KOVALEV AGAIN! Hell - they could agree to do that with him even BEFORE he is traded.

So next year, - they still got kovalev AND they got some prospects!! It's free prospects!!



I am fully convinced that sather would trade away kovalev for a bag of pucks is that's the best he was offered. The question is - who can offer more pucks. Vancouver? Or colorado/detroit/toronto/etc.
Isn't that kind of conspiring illegal in the current CBA? If not, then why hasn't that happened before?

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02-22-2004, 11:24 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy
to all the people that say sather would laugh at something like chubarov and 1st for kovalev

(for example)


look at it this way:


you're going out of town, and your buddy says can i use your car while you're away? I'll pay you 100 bux.

When you get back, here's your car again, you can still use it, AND you got 100 bux!! IT'S PRACTICALLY FREE MONEY


It's the same thing with the rangers - they could trade away kovalev for a few months.....not affect their record at all...not affect their ticket prices at all...get some prospects...AND THEN IN THE SUMMER RE-SIGN KOVALEV AGAIN! Hell - they could agree to do that with him even BEFORE he is traded.

So next year, - they still got kovalev AND they got some prospects!! It's free prospects!!



I am fully convinced that sather would trade away kovalev for a bag of pucks is that's the best he was offered. The question is - who can offer more pucks. Vancouver? Or colorado/detroit/toronto/etc.


AND what if there's a cap and we can't afford Kovalev? Gm's don't give players away. also maybe Kovalev won't resign, he's not exactly happy here under Sather. So the thought of free kovalev, not likely, don't get your hopes up buddy boy.

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02-22-2004, 11:29 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
Isn't that kind of conspiring illegal in the current CBA? If not, then why hasn't that happened before?
Glen Wesley, was traded to Toronto last deadline only to re-sign with Carolina in the off-season.

I don't see why their should be anything against these types of transactions regarding UFA.

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02-22-2004, 11:30 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnyquist
AND what if there's a cap and we can't afford Kovalev? Gm's don't give players away. also maybe Kovalev won't resign, he's not exactly happy here under Sather. So the thought of free kovalev, not likely, don't get your hopes up buddy boy.
So the Rangers would rather get nothing for Kovalev?

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02-22-2004, 11:38 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
So the Rangers would rather get nothing for Kovalev?

I never said they'd take nothing, BUT if they're going to deal him, they won't just give him away because they're safe in knowing they could get him in July

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02-22-2004, 11:45 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
So the Rangers would rather get nothing for Kovalev?
no they'd just find someone who does want Kovalev, and take the best offer. IMO if the Canucks offered Koltsov straight up Id do it. Umberger, 4th? sure.... but if a better offer came along, I'd take it.

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02-22-2004, 11:45 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnyquist
I never said they'd take nothing, BUT if they're going to deal him, they won't just give him away because they're safe in knowing they could get him in July
Chubarov and a 1st round pick isn't "giving him away"...

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02-22-2004, 11:48 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Chubarov and a 1st round pick isn't "giving him away"...
Yeah but Chubarov is redundant on the Rangers, so if someone offered a LATE first rd pick and a D prospect the Rangers would take that offer over this one. Thats the point.

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02-23-2004, 11:20 AM
  #90
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The Canucks wouldn't give Chubarov away easily..he's a good developing center. Umberger and King for Kovalev, I'd do..if the NYR wanted a pick, maybe a 3rd or 4th, I'd throw it in too..we need a 2nd line scorer.

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02-23-2004, 11:30 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken
Yeah but Chubarov is redundant on the Rangers
How so? I thought the Rangers lacked hard working, defensive players...

Quote:
so if someone offered a LATE first rd pick and a D prospect the Rangers would take that offer over this one. Thats the point.
That's if someone offered that. Anyway, all I'm saying is that a package of Chubarov and a 1st round pick isn't worthless, espcially considering Bondra, who I think is better, went for a decent prospect and a 2nd round pick. I highly, highly doubt any team gives up more then what Ottawa did for Bondra.

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02-23-2004, 05:49 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
Isn't that kind of conspiring illegal in the current CBA? If not, then why hasn't that happened before?
No, because its other teams can bid for Kovalev in the offseason, just as they can if the Rangers don't trade. Collusion is usually where the teams get to gether to screw a player and drive down his value. No collusion what so ever in doing this as the Nucks won't try to resign him anyway because of the $$$.


Yes it has happened before. Remember all those post-season trades before July 1. The ones where a rich team dumps a UFA on a poor team for a low pick, the UFA resigns with the rich teams, the poor team gets a compensation pick for a player they never really had and the rich team gets a pick for nothing.

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02-23-2004, 05:50 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Chubarov and a 1st round pick isn't "giving him away"...

Just pass, he's not worth it. Let the Rags keep him and get nothing.

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02-23-2004, 06:59 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
How so? I thought the Rangers lacked hard working, defensive players...



That's if someone offered that. Anyway, all I'm saying is that a package of Chubarov and a 1st round pick isn't worthless, espcially considering Bondra, who I think is better, went for a decent prospect and a 2nd round pick. I highly, highly doubt any team gives up more then what Ottawa did for Bondra.

Mr Griffin,

Jamie Lundmark, Dan Lacouture, Jed Ortmeyer, Garth Murray


All guys that are good defensive players that work hard. Lundmark, very under-rated defensively, Ortmeyer as well. Chubarov isnt a bad player, just why do the Rangers really need him, when what we are really missing is defense?

Makes NO sense to accept a deal with him for the sake of making a deal, such as this would be. Anyway, I'm sure the Rangers will get more than Chubarov and essentially a second round pick. I'd imagine that it's not even that they are asking for much [a solid defensive prospect]. There are certainly teams that can afford to part with one.

[Jan Platil + conditional 3rd if he re-signs with them, if not Rangers get a 4th rounder from Ottawa ... something along those lines is more than adequate return for Kovalevs services.]

The fact that he [Kovalev] is a UFA doesnt matter to a team that is interested in winning. If they trade for him there is always a good chance, esp with the upcoming CBA, that a player would like to sign a long term deal to stay with a team to keep a job.

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02-23-2004, 07:20 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken
Mr Griffin,

Jamie Lundmark, Dan Lacouture, Jed Ortmeyer, Garth Murray


All guys that are good defensive players that work hard. Lundmark, very under-rated defensively, Ortmeyer as well. Chubarov isnt a bad player, just why do the Rangers really need him, when what we are really missing is defense?

Makes NO sense to accept a deal with him for the sake of making a deal, such as this would be. Anyway, I'm sure the Rangers will get more than Chubarov and essentially a second round pick. I'd imagine that it's not even that they are asking for much [a solid defensive prospect]. There are certainly teams that can afford to part with one.

[Jan Platil + conditional 3rd if he re-signs with them, if not Rangers get a 4th rounder from Ottawa ... something along those lines is more than adequate return for Kovalevs services.]

The fact that he [Kovalev] is a UFA doesnt matter to a team that is interested in winning. If they trade for him there is always a good chance, esp with the upcoming CBA, that a player would like to sign a long term deal to stay with a team to keep a job.
Fair enough, but how is a 1st round pick, essentially a 2nd? With the way the Canucks are playing it could be anywhere from 20th-30th. A 1st is a 1st. Also, even though Chubarov may not be the ideal return, do you disagree that a package of Chubarov and a 1st is worth more then Platil and a 3rd/4th? 1st > Platil, Chubarov >= 3rd/4th. I would think the Rangers would take the better value with their situation. They could draft a much better d-man than Platil in the 1st round.

Anyway, what type of d-man do you think the Rangers would be after?

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02-23-2004, 07:21 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
Just pass, he's not worth it. Let the Rags keep him and get nothing.
Don't worry, I wouldn't touch that deal from a Canucks' perspective(no way does Kovalev go for more then what Bondra went for). Just stating that Chubarov and 1st isn't a garbage offer.

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02-23-2004, 07:39 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy
to all the people that say sather would laugh at something like chubarov and 1st for kovalev

... It's the same thing with the rangers - they could trade away kovalev for a few months.....not affect their record at all...not affect their ticket prices at all...get some prospects...AND THEN IN THE SUMMER RE-SIGN KOVALEV AGAIN! Hell - they could agree to do that with him even BEFORE he is traded.

So next year, - they still got kovalev AND they got some prospects!! It's free prospects!!
That assumes that Sather wants Kovalev back. I don't believe he does in which case he wants full value for him now. Also, while it's easy to say, "Let him walk and re-sign him later," that really doesn't happen terribly often. Too many other factors end up playing in which is why the vast majority of GMs who want to keep a guy simply won't risk it. And history suggests that they're wise not to do so.

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02-23-2004, 07:41 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Fair enough, but how is a 1st round pick, essentially a 2nd? With the way the Canucks are playing it could be anywhere from 20th-30th. A 1st is a 1st. Also, even though Chubarov may not be the ideal return, do you disagree that a package of Chubarov and a 1st is worth more then Platil and a 3rd/4th? 1st > Platil, Chubarov >= 3rd/4th. I would think the Rangers would take the better value with their situation. They could draft a much better d-man than Platil in the 1st round.

Anyway, what type of d-man do you think the Rangers would be after?
They will be after a stay at home physical defenseman with Poti being their offensive weapon, not to mention Leetch if he stays around.

Value isnt the answer. Its filling team needs. If we can get a tough stay at home guy like Gauthier then thats what we will take. I know a first round pick is good value and could produce a star on defense but it could also be a bust. If you guys are willing to offer Kirill Koltsov, you can have Kovie right now because it fills a need for the NYR. Koltsov - Tyutin sounds like a good pairing.

Peter Griffin [amazing show by the way] don't get frusturated, I never said your deal isn't good value, just not what the Rangers are seeking on a needs basis.

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02-23-2004, 07:55 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy
You put kovalev with the sedins..........everybody would be paying attention to kovalev forgetting they can score too and they WILL

And there's only 1.2 mill left in his contract for this year.....


Do you think this could happen? And would it be good for the canucks? And what would it cost?

Something like.......


Umburger (selfish basttard, wants to play in new york, should fit right in on the rangers), King (the trade bait), and a 1st round pick


edit: this is a proposal

edit also: i meant to say Umburger wants to play in the US, NOT new york. Just the US. But New York would work
I think that is too much for a player that the Rangers want and need to move. Bondra has more value than Kovalev and he went for a B level prospect and a pick. That is about what Ranger fans can expect to get from the Canucks. Maybe a little less. Maybe Fedor Fedorov and a 3rd round pick

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02-23-2004, 07:57 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken
They will be after a stay at home physical defenseman with Poti being their offensive weapon, not to mention Leetch if he stays around.

Value isnt the answer. Its filling team needs. If we can get a tough stay at home guy like Gauthier then thats what we will take. I know a first round pick is good value and could produce a star on defense but it could also be a bust. If you guys are willing to offer Kirill Koltsov, you can have Kovie right now because it fills a need for the NYR. Koltsov - Tyutin sounds like a good pairing.
I see your point, I just find it a bit odd that a team that is in desperate need of a change would take arguably a lesser offer. In any case, I would assume that there will be a few teams interested in Kovalev, namely the teams that lost out on Bondra as well as some others. I think your idea of Platil and a mid-round pick is fair value, problem is, Ottawa wouldn't have any interest after getting Bondra. What other teams can offer a similar package and would be willing to? Supposedly Detroit has interest, but I can't see them parting with a guy like Niklas Kronwall, more likely they'd offer a forward such as Jiri Hudler. Devils might have some interest, they could offer Anton Kadeykin who would be a good fit with New York IMO. Toronto would probably show interest, but their priorty is and should be defense. Buffalo has been rumoured to be interested, but I don't see them offering up too much, especially on defense. St.Louis has also been mentioned and may be the best fit. I could see them offering up Matt Walker and a pick for Kovalev. Vancouver likely won't have any interest, espcially if it costs Koltsov. Burke has stated he won't trade "a player that could play for 10 years for a two month rental". Koltsov may be used as trade bait, but not for Kovalev.



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Quote:
don't get frusturated, I never said your deal isn't good value, just not what the Rangers are seeking on a needs basis.
It's not my deal, I wouldn't make that deal(too much for Kovalev IMO). I just find it a bit odd that the Rangers wouldn't take the offer of more value, even though it may not be a better fit. Re-building teams tend to take value over fit.

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