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The role of a captain

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Old
02-18-2004, 10:30 PM
  #1
Cariboux
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The role of a captain

The Habs had the chance to have many great "C" like The Rocket, Bob Gainey, Guy Carbonneau, etc.

What is, for your toughts, a great captain and what responsabilities he have for his team ?


Please, be objective. Stop to talk about french medias since english medias have preferences too.

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02-18-2004, 10:44 PM
  #2
Kirk Muller
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Ideally a good captain is respected, brings 100% in games and practice, inspirational and is able to talk to his teammates. The first three have synergistic forces enabling the latter to be effective.

HOWEVER, destructive personalities in the dressing room can and will destroy ANY semblance of a good leader, for example Mark Messier and NYR. A team can have a great leader, but others can kill unity and cohesiveness. One many say a leader should be able to overcome this, but each individual makes its own choices thus if they feel bigger than the team, no one man will change this.

Also, leadership is NEVER found from one sole individual. Montreal has a few, Koivu, Rivet, and Souray. Souray more recently. But Montreal has/had there fair share of dividers like Dagenais, Audette, Czerkawski, plus factor into it guys who simply aren't character players like Kilger, Juneau, Brisebois, and Zednik. All this creates instability.

Note - The jury is out on Ribeiro. He has had his share of questionable behaviour, but to say he is problem of the likes of others mentioned, I don't know.

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02-18-2004, 10:48 PM
  #3
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Quintal and Theodore also have good leadership and i belive Ryder will become one too .

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02-18-2004, 10:50 PM
  #4
The Power Forward
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Actually in the present edition of the Habs , there are only two real leaders :

Sheldon Souray and Stephane Quintal.

There are no other , not Koivu , not Rivet , not Ribeiro , not Juneau or whoever. Only Souray and Quintal deserve to wear the "C" on their jersey.

Now flame me . crucify me , bash me , throw me rocks or whatever you need that will make you feel better but this is my opinion and i truly beleive it.

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02-18-2004, 11:08 PM
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As we all know, Koivu is a leader on the ice. He always give everything he have. I have respect for Koivu because of that. But in my opinion, a guy like Sheldon Souray would be better captain because he know how to communicate in the locker room and outside of the arena. As a captain, he would be more able to shake the team, he is a born leader and it shows.

Now the habs are going to miss the playoffs and Koivu is never in the locker room to talk to the medias after losses. This team lacks leadership. It was another story when guys like recchi/corson were on the team to support koivu's leadership.

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02-18-2004, 11:08 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Power Forward
Actually in the present edition of the Habs , there are only two real leaders :

Sheldon Souray and Stephane Quintal.

There are no other , not Koivu , not Rivet , not Ribeiro , not Juneau or whoever. Only Souray and Quintal deserve to wear the "C" on their jersey.

Now flame me . crucify me , bash me , throw me rocks or whatever you need that will make you feel better but this is my opinion and i truly beleive it.
I second you.

And good that you have the guts to post your opinion.

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02-18-2004, 11:15 PM
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Hey, I'd make a GREAT captain for the habs! I say we all mount a protest until the habs decide to make me captain. All for say Aye!

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02-19-2004, 12:18 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Power Forward
Actually in the present edition of the Habs , there are only two real leaders :

Sheldon Souray and Stephane Quintal.

There are no other , not Koivu , not Rivet , not Ribeiro , not Juneau or whoever. Only Souray and Quintal deserve to wear the "C" on their jersey.

Now flame me . crucify me , bash me , throw me rocks or whatever you need that will make you feel better but this is my opinion and i truly beleive it.
(throws rock)

One thing I agree about is that Koivu might not be approachable. Messier said at the all-star break that he doesn't offer advice to young kids, he develops a relationship first so they get to know who he is and vice versa. Then, if they have any questions, they'll know where he's coming from so they can interpret what he says to suit themselves. The same piece of advice won't work the same for every person.

Koivu is the guy who Ribs has to go to to get tips since they play similar styles, so it's not good if they don't get along!

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:40 AM
  #9
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
As we all know, Koivu is a leader on the ice. He always give everything he have. I have respect for Koivu because of that. But in my opinion, a guy like Sheldon Souray would be better captain because he know how to communicate in the locker room and outside of the arena. As a captain, he would be more able to shake the team, he is a born leader and it shows.

Now the habs are going to miss the playoffs and Koivu is never in the locker room to talk to the medias after losses. This team lacks leadership. It was another story when guys like recchi/corson were on the team to support koivu's leadership.

As for Koivu's leadership, all we, the fans, can base it on, is what we see on the ice. What we have seen from Koivu is giving 110% on the ice, andtalking to youngsters like Ryder and Hossa on the bench. He does talk after every game, I have no clue where you got that. Are you a reporter? Do you know that just because newspapers or TV don't quote him all the time, it doesn't mean he isn't speaking to the media. And just because its not in French means very little.

The difference between knowing and assuming is vast, and that is what you do when talking about Souray's leadership abilities and acting like you know whats happening in the lockerroom.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:48 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
As for Koivu's leadership, all we, the fans, can base it on, is what we see on the ice. What we have seen from Koivu is giving 110% on the ice, andtalking to youngsters like Ryder and Hossa on the bench. He does talk after every game, I have no clue where you got that. Are you a reporter? Do you know that just because newspapers or TV don't quote him all the time, it doesn't mean he isn't speaking to the media. And just because its not in French means very little.

The difference between knowing and assuming is vast, and that is what you do when talking about Souray's leadership abilities and acting like you know whats happening in the lockerroom.
Souray really sounds like a great guy though... he seems to be loved by all, goes to war for the team and protects is teammates (mostly his captain), he doesn't need the "C" to have an effect on team's chemistry me thinks.

Another guy who could be captain material [if only he was more skilled...] is Begin. Now that's a guy that gives more than 110%, fights for the team and all. He's really a great contributor IMO, just not on the scoresheet.

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Old
02-19-2004, 01:29 AM
  #11
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Power Forward
Actually in the present edition of the Habs , there are only two real leaders :

Sheldon Souray and Stephane Quintal.

There are no other , not Koivu , not Rivet , not Ribeiro , not Juneau or whoever. Only Souray and Quintal deserve to wear the "C" on their jersey.

Now flame me . crucify me , bash me , throw me rocks or whatever you need that will make you feel better but this is my opinion and i truly beleive it.
Sheldon Souray is a freaking nobody. A late bloomer who's made little noise until recently. You truly believe something that's made out of thin air, if you ask me.

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Old
02-19-2004, 01:40 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Sheldon Souray is a freaking nobody. A late bloomer who's made little noise until recently. You truly believe something that's made out of thin air, if you ask me.
We shall see about that in 2 years. If you know Souray's past, old bad habits and injuries problems, you would agree that he never had the chance to prove himself.

I give him 2 years to prove you and many around those boards (eyes on Toronto's fans) wrong.

P.S.: as a side note, i agree on the fact that making him a Captain so soon wouldn't be appropriate. On that i agree.

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02-19-2004, 06:09 AM
  #13
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I get a kick out of how you guys know what is going on in the locker room. What is your source? Has one of the Habs ever come out of a meeting and say to you, "Man, that Koivu. What a useless captain".

With that said, I say scrap the "C" and have 3 "A's". Why put pressure on a player to be the captain. Lets face it. Not everyone is a Yzerman, Linden or Gainey.

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02-19-2004, 08:25 AM
  #14
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Yep, all we can base it on is the on ice product we see from Koivu. Coming from a hockey coach in the West Island I can only offer my perception on what I look for in a captain when chosing for my teams:

- Desire
- Discipline
- Dedication
- Coachability
- Respect
- In your face attitude
- Vocal on and off the ice

Doe Koivu fit all these qualities? Also, didn't the players vote for Koivu as captain?

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02-19-2004, 08:29 AM
  #15
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I find it funny that people are always talking about what makes a good captain, and how Koivu isn't a good captain, when the truth is the stuff that a great captain does is stuff that is rarely seen by the media or the fans.

It's the stuff in the dressing room, the stuff before and after the games. Unless some of you posters actually play for the Montreal Canadiens you have absolute no clue wether Koivu is truely a good captain or not. Speculate all you want.

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Old
02-19-2004, 08:49 AM
  #16
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Any captain should have beat the crap of Ribeiro !
and koivu does !!! now i have more respect for him !!
thx saku !!

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Old
02-19-2004, 09:17 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
I find it funny that people are always talking about what makes a good captain, and how Koivu isn't a good captain, when the truth is the stuff that a great captain does is stuff that is rarely seen by the media or the fans.

It's the stuff in the dressing room, the stuff before and after the games. Unless some of you posters actually play for the Montreal Canadiens you have absolute no clue wether Koivu is truely a good captain or not. Speculate all you want.
the captain is also the one who gives the exemple in the practices and in the games by his intensity , but i agree that we have no clue about the way a captain is inside of the room.Speculation ? oh yes !

this thread was about the qualities of a good captain , but once again it's turn in a '' Koivu is or is not a good captain '' thread.Is it so difficult to talk about hockey without going in a Koivu or a Ribeiro debate ?

Romain is right , he with his answer;
- Desire
- Discipline
- Dedication
- Coachability
- Respect
- In your face attitude
- Vocal on and off the ice

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Old
02-19-2004, 09:40 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
Any captain should have beat the crap of Ribeiro !
and koivu does !!! now i have more respect for him !!
thx saku !!
Come on it's not a Koivu/Ribeiro thread, but a captain thread

I agree with markov and romain about the qualities of a great captain.

Another question, who will be a great captain for us in the next years in our young guns ?

Ryder ?
Komisarek ?
Higgins ?

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Old
02-19-2004, 09:42 AM
  #19
Habeas Corpus
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Hi guys,

It's a slow day and I have some time on my hands so I thought I'd give my thoughts on this subject. I've been in the Forces since 95. I have some of experience in leadership positions.

I find that the most important thing a leader needs is to be respected by your peers (teammates). You have to earn respect, you can't demand it - especially from adults. You must demonstrate that you will not ask of them, that which you will not do yourself. They must want to follow you and if you are a good leader they will.

Another thing I have noticed is talk is cheap. Yeah, I know it's cliche, but it is true. At first it works, but eventually you will be "tuned-out" unless you lead by example. You can be the best motivational speaker in the world, but without action you lack credibility. Think of past captains of the Canadiens, Gainey, Carbo, and yes Saku. These players lead by example, they are not big talkers. There is nothing that they ask of their teammates that they would not do themselves on the ice.

Of course I have encountered individuals who are reluctant to follow, this is where the rest of the team has to step in. You cannot lead on your own, you need a supporting cast, "Lieutenants" are needed. Every good leader has them. Take Mark Messier for example, some would say he is the best leader in profeesional sports. He got the job done in Edmonton because he had his lieutenants, but when he was traded to NY (where there was abundant talent) he stumbled and couldn't get the team to move in the same direction untill he brought in his supporting cast of leaders (Lowe, Tikanen, Graves, and others). You see, even the best leader in professional sports couldn't do it by himself.

If one is to lead, support from above is necessary as well. There must be a unified front at all times. In the case of hockey, I believe a coach has as much to do with the success of the captain as anything else. If the coach supports the captain this will add to his credibility. Of course, this is a two way street. The support of the coach by his captain adds to his credibilty.

In closing, the leadership of a team cannot be left to one individual. Leadership should be approached from a team perspective. There must be a leadership team in place. Unless everyone is on the same page it just isn't going to work. Let's hope our team can get it together, stop pointing fingers, and collectively lead us into the playoffs.

My 2 cents.

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Old
02-19-2004, 09:44 AM
  #20
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Koivu est un leader, et ça se voit sur la glace. Comme plusieurs ont dit, il faudrait peut-être arrêter de croire à la lettre des espèces de losers jaloux (Pedneault, Flynn, Chantelois, etc etc etc) qui n'ont d'yeux que pour leur nouveau ti gars qui parle québécois, même si c'est un putain de freshier qui se prend pour un autre. Moi aussi je suis content que Koivu ait répliqué, ça va peut-être lui apprendre à respecter ses coéquipiers. Aussi, et surtout, nous n'avons vus que des images, on a rien entendu de ce qui s'est dit au moment où ça s'est produit. Facile d'interpréter tout ce qu'on veut et faire son ti-jo connaissant parce qu'on passe à la TV...

Les médias sont puissants... un pouvoir de suggestion prononcé. Et quand ils sont contrôlés par du monde comme ces 'losers jaloux', qui font passer leurs idées avant leur devoir d'information neutre, ya une bunch de crétins qui les suivent aveuglément et qui copient leurs agissements. Je ne vise personne en particulier, mais j'espère que certains se reconnaîtront.

Justement, à cause de la 'puissance' de nos médias, on a fait fuir plusieurs bons joueurs, ou jamais donné l'intérêt à d'autres de venir jouer à Mtl. Nos très sages gourous de RDS (entres autres...) parlent comme s'ils étaient rois et maîtres du hockey à Mtl (je déteste Pedneault, il parle tellement comme s'il savait tout, alors que souvent ce ne sont que des opinions biaisés en faveur d'un joueur particulier ex: Quel beau jeu de Ribeiro! alors qu'il a fait une passe en zone neutre, et Le gardien a été faible sur ce tir! alors que Bulis a scoré).

Et finalement, je sais que je n'ai pas beaucoup de posts (pour ceux dont ça importe pour le 'respect' ou la 'réputation'), mais ça fait longtemps que je viens sur ces boards. Et ça devient de plus en plus pathétique...

Ce ne sont que mes opinions, donc pas besoin de le prendre personnel.

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Old
02-19-2004, 09:49 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
Any captain should have beat the crap of Ribeiro !
and koivu does !!! now i have more respect for him !!
thx saku !!

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Old
02-19-2004, 10:19 AM
  #22
Darz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habeas Corpus
Hi guys,

It's a slow day and I have some time on my hands so I thought I'd give my thoughts on this subject. I've been in the Forces since 95. I have some of experience in leadership positions.

I find that the most important thing a leader needs is to be respected by your peers (teammates). You have to earn respect, you can't demand it - especially from adults. You must demonstrate that you will not ask of them, that which you will not do yourself. They must want to follow you and if you are a good leader they will.

Another thing I have noticed is talk is cheap. Yeah, I know it's cliche, but it is true. At first it works, but eventually you will be "tuned-out" unless you lead by example. You can be the best motivational speaker in the world, but without action you lack credibility. Think of past captains of the Canadiens, Gainey, Carbo, and yes Saku. These players lead by example, they are not big talkers. There is nothing that they ask of their teammates that they would not do themselves on the ice.

Of course I have encountered individuals who are reluctant to follow, this is where the rest of the team has to step in. You cannot lead on your own, you need a supporting cast, "Lieutenants" are needed. Every good leader has them. Take Mark Messier for example, some would say he is the best leader in profeesional sports. He got the job done in Edmonton because he had his lieutenants, but when he was traded to NY (where there was abundant talent) he stumbled and couldn't get the team to move in the same direction untill he brought in his supporting cast of leaders (Lowe, Tikanen, Graves, and others). You see, even the best leader in professional sports couldn't do it by himself.

If one is to lead, support from above is necessary as well. There must be a unified front at all times. In the case of hockey, I believe a coach has as much to do with the success of the captain as anything else. If the coach supports the captain this will add to his credibility. Of course, this is a two way street. The support of the coach by his captain adds to his credibilty.

In closing, the leadership of a team cannot be left to one individual. Leadership should be approached from a team perspective. There must be a leadership team in place. Unless everyone is on the same page it just isn't going to work. Let's hope our team can get it together, stop pointing fingers, and collectively lead us into the playoffs.

My 2 cents.
That's a really good way of looking at it. I think on the subject of what makes a good captain, I wanna say...

'What he said'

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Old
02-19-2004, 10:34 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cariboux
Come on it's not a Koivu/Ribeiro thread, but a captain thread

I agree with markov and romain about the qualities of a great captain.

Another question, who will be a great captain for us in the next years in our young guns ?

Ryder ?
Komisarek ?
Higgins ?
Komi appears to have the qualities required. From what I hear, so does Higgins. I think it'll come down to a coin toss.

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Old
02-19-2004, 11:08 AM
  #24
Guy Caballero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habeas Corpus
Hi guys,

It's a slow day and I have some time on my hands so I thought I'd give my thoughts on this subject. I've been in the Forces since 95. I have some of experience in leadership positions.

I find that the most important thing a leader needs is to be respected by your peers (teammates). You have to earn respect, you can't demand it - especially from adults. You must demonstrate that you will not ask of them, that which you will not do yourself. They must want to follow you and if you are a good leader they will.

Another thing I have noticed is talk is cheap. Yeah, I know it's cliche, but it is true. At first it works, but eventually you will be "tuned-out" unless you lead by example. You can be the best motivational speaker in the world, but without action you lack credibility. Think of past captains of the Canadiens, Gainey, Carbo, and yes Saku. These players lead by example, they are not big talkers. There is nothing that they ask of their teammates that they would not do themselves on the ice.

Of course I have encountered individuals who are reluctant to follow, this is where the rest of the team has to step in. You cannot lead on your own, you need a supporting cast, "Lieutenants" are needed. Every good leader has them. Take Mark Messier for example, some would say he is the best leader in profeesional sports. He got the job done in Edmonton because he had his lieutenants, but when he was traded to NY (where there was abundant talent) he stumbled and couldn't get the team to move in the same direction untill he brought in his supporting cast of leaders (Lowe, Tikanen, Graves, and others). You see, even the best leader in professional sports couldn't do it by himself.

If one is to lead, support from above is necessary as well. There must be a unified front at all times. In the case of hockey, I believe a coach has as much to do with the success of the captain as anything else. If the coach supports the captain this will add to his credibility. Of course, this is a two way street. The support of the coach by his captain adds to his credibilty.

In closing, the leadership of a team cannot be left to one individual. Leadership should be approached from a team perspective. There must be a leadership team in place. Unless everyone is on the same page it just isn't going to work. Let's hope our team can get it together, stop pointing fingers, and collectively lead us into the playoffs.

My 2 cents.
Fine post, and it validates what I've always believed about assisstant captains: that they should not be named lightly. Our three players wearing letters must share the same vision of the team's direction and leave it all out there on the ice every night. Right now, we have a good leader in Koivu, but we haven't surrounded him with the right players. Leadership has become a burden because he's forced to shoulder it alone.

Quintal and Rivet have struggled with their own poor play season, so it's hard to imagine that they could stabilize this team, Zednik's effort on the ice has seemed erratic this year, and Juneau is done. That's why we need someone like Smyth—a guy with talent and grit who busts his ass every night. I think we missed the boat where he is concerned, though, and we might now have to wait until the offseason to make any moves.

As far as the future is concerned, I don't think we should worry. Ryder, Ward, Souray, Begin, and Komisarek all seem to have the right attitude—toughness, good work ethic, and humility. After our current vets hit the road, I think these guys, along with Saku, will step up and form a leadership core we can really build around, like when we had Carbo, McPhee, Skrudland, Chelios, Ludwig, etc.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:11 PM
  #25
habitual_hab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cariboux
The Habs had the chance to have many great "C" like The Rocket, Bob Gainey, Guy Carbonneau, etc.

What is, for your toughts, a great captain and what responsabilities he have for his team ?


Please, be objective. Stop to talk about french medias since english medias have preferences too.

I suppose the only reason that you're posing this question is because Koivu had a little tussle with Ribeiro.

Henri Richard slapped Serge Savard upside the head one day - did that make him an unworthy captian? No, because he was standing up for a team-mate. Koivu was chosen as captain of the Habs by his peers - so that makes him a good captain for his peers - because it's Koivu they look to for leadership. End of story.

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