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Time to Settle the Score...

View Poll Results: On or off the K-Lo bus?
On 72 87.80%
Off 10 12.20%
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Old
02-18-2004, 11:47 PM
  #1
Fists of Fuhry
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Time to Settle the Score...

Alot of stuff has been brought up the last couple of days saying how the Oilers' brass has not come through on their promisses and alot of criticism has been dealt to Lowe for certain shortcomings (Comrie, standing pat on the trade front, etc.). I for one would not be the first to say that Lowe is a dream GM but there are certain things that the "Boys on the Bus" have given in their short tenure that Oiler fans should not take for granted. I for one will admit that I ***** my pants the day I heard Sather was leaving for the Big Apple but now.. I'm sure that I would not trade Lowe for 2 Sathers. And what would most fans expect with the Departure of Weight, Guerin -->eventually Carter, Marchant, Niinimaa? (I didn't include Comrie because his departure wasn't a salary dump or rebuild move)... I'm not quite certain that another GM, Coach duo could command much more from the Oilers' unseasoned roster during a transition period. Sure you could say that losing a chunk of our star players were a direct result of Lowe and Co. but on the other hand, I don't hear too many complaints about the personell that we acquired back. Dvorak, York, Torres, Stoll, Hemsky, Ulanov, Staios are all huge fan favorites and their additions can all be attributed to clever work of the GM. I for one like what I see in terms of the near future and am willing to give our GM at least 2 more years to piece together his contender before I pass judgement. Where does everyone else stand? Its time to settle the score...

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:50 PM
  #2
dawgbone
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Everyone knows where I stand.

Lowe has 3 years after the new CBA for me to see something tangible (i.e. a roster that is starting to come together and make strides), and I feel Lowe is living up to what he promised.

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:53 PM
  #3
Seachd
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I'm on until he starts taking this team in a direction I don't like personally. He hasn't done that.

I think that if the Oilers played even 5 more games as hard as they did tonight, we wouldn't be talking about this.

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:53 PM
  #4
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I agree with dawegbone. I wanna see a team that contends for a long playoff run, not a team thats squeeks in destined for a 1st-round exit.

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:56 PM
  #5
Fists of Fuhry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
I'm on until he starts taking this team in a direction I don't like personally. He hasn't done that.

I think that if the Oilers played even 5 more games as hard as they did tonight, we wouldn't be talking about this.
I agree somewhat... I don't think its the number of games that we've won so far that concerns me of this team but the painful losses to teams that we could've beat in recent games.. Minny, Nashville...

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:57 PM
  #6
Matts
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with that attitude

Lowe could go live in a spider hole for three years and be exempt from criticism.

I'm not one of the guys talking about promises and I'm not talking about making an asinine deal to make the playoffs in a year we can't compete for anything anyway. This season took a big dent as soon as Lowe brought Tommy back.

I just thought Lowe jumped on the Comrie thing, gave MacT the keys to the kingdom, hired Simpson without seemingly looking around and back to Comrie the centre situation is really beyond stable.

It could all work out in three years but that doesn't absolve Lowe from making dummy moves in the here and now either.

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:59 PM
  #7
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Everyone knows where I stand.

Lowe has 3 years after the new CBA for me to see something tangible (i.e. a roster that is starting to come together and make strides), and I feel Lowe is living up to what he promised.
I would say that is where I stand as well. Give or take a year.

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:59 PM
  #8
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
Lowe could go live in a spider hole for three years and be exempt from criticism.

I'm not one of the guys talking about promises and I'm not talking about making an asinine deal to make the playoffs in a year we can't compete for anything anyway. This season took a big dent as soon as Lowe brought Tommy back.

I just thought Lowe jumped on the Comrie thing, gave MacT the keys to the kingdom, hired Simpson without seemingly looking around and back to Comrie the centre situation is really beyond stable.

It could all work out in three years but that doesn't absolve Lowe from making dummy moves in the here and now either.
If the Oilers are going to dump a player every time they have an off season, you are going to run out of talent really quick.

As for the Comrie thing, once again, seeing as you seem to know the complete story,

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN THE REST OF US!

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:00 AM
  #9
Allan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
back to Comrie the centre situation is really beyond stable.
Are you crazy? The centre situation is a long way short of stable. IF most of the prospects turn out, it may be stable in two or three years, but until then, it's pretty shaky.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:01 AM
  #10
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I am a big Klo supporter but that doesn't mean that I support his every move (or in this case, non-move).

The situation whereby we had no #1 offensive center came by quite unexpectedly and I'm not blaming Lowe or Mact for that matter, us going into the season without one was an obvious setback. Signing Oates wasn't such a poorly concocted scheme and it didn't cost us a lot moneywise, it cost us nothing in terms of personnel.

To this point I'm all smiles. However, the mob at lw is too big and has been since day 1, and calling the Oates experiment a flop and making some kind of move is now overdue. Lowe is dragging his feet in these areas and it's time to see something resolved.

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02-19-2004, 12:02 AM
  #11
Matts
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No one knows the real story

though I know that in the trade we didn't address a real need either. And now he has to trade from the D to pick up a goaltender or another centre.

As for a guy who had one bad season, '01 and '03. getting older and inspiring so much confidence as to have Lowe want to send Peeters over there during the summer.

So yeah Tommy was looking damn solid after last year.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:03 AM
  #12
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
though I know that in the trade we didn't address a real need either. And now he has to trade from the D to pick up a goaltender or another centre.

As for a guy who had one bad season, '01 and '03. getting older and inspiring so much confidence as to have Lowe want to send Peeters over there during the summer.

So yeah Tommy was looking damn solid after last year.
What you don't have confidence in Tyler Moss to lead us to Glory.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:03 AM
  #13
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I'm still on the bus, but I'd have to say in this past year I've moved from the back of it to somewhere around the middle. IMO this year hasn't been his best, he's been hit and miss.

We'll see what next year brings.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:03 AM
  #14
Matts
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well I was trying to be nice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
Are you crazy? The centre situation is a long way short of stable. IF most of the prospects turn out, it may be stable in two or three years, but until then, it's pretty shaky.
York made it somewhat palatable but yeah I know how badit is and there's two offensive pivots in the pipe and one of them had major shoulder surgery and is rumored to be less than Herculean when itcomesto the weight training so 2-3 years?

now you so crazzzzyyy

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:04 AM
  #15
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You know what

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
What you don't have confidence in Tyler Moss to lead us to Glory.
that was a great movie. Denzel was getting on with his old showboating stuff but Freeman and Braugher and Broderick were great

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:05 AM
  #16
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I did say maybe it could be stable, not that it will be great (not that I don't think it isn't possible). All they really need is one more decent centre for now, and draft a few more prospects, and things will look a lot better.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:06 AM
  #17
Fists of Fuhry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
Lowe could go live in a spider hole for three years and be exempt from criticism.

I'm not one of the guys talking about promises and I'm not talking about making an asinine deal to make the playoffs in a year we can't compete for anything anyway. This season took a big dent as soon as Lowe brought Tommy back.

I just thought Lowe jumped on the Comrie thing, gave MacT the keys to the kingdom, hired Simpson without seemingly looking around and back to Comrie the centre situation is really beyond stable.

It could all work out in three years but that doesn't absolve Lowe from making dummy moves in the here and now either.
I guess I can't speak for you Matts, but I don't think that by giving Lowe credit (in areas that he deserves credit for) I become mindless sheep. I'm just trying to keep it realistic in the sense that not everything about our management is suspect to conspiracy theories to reward loyal dogs blindly and without rhyme or reason.

MacT is not a brilliant coach, but he was not a brilliant player either (think Helmet), but he was a damn hard working one.. and he's got the Oiler's as one of the hardest working teams in the NHL... Now the PP? that's a different story.. you don't count on MacT (a defenceman) to come thru as a great PP Coach ....

Comrie may or may not have happened eventually.. I agree that Lowe gambled a bit and it may come back to haunt him but I'd bet that Comrie's ego would eventually be a trouble spot for us sometime down the road if for not what happened this season..

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:09 AM
  #18
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
that was a great movie. Denzel was getting on with his old showboating stuff but Freeman and Braugher and Broderick were great
I didn't mind the move. It doesn't hurt to have goatending depth in the organization

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:11 AM
  #19
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
though I know that in the trade we didn't address a real need either. And now he has to trade from the D to pick up a goaltender or another centre.

As for a guy who had one bad season, '01 and '03. getting older and inspiring so much confidence as to have Lowe want to send Peeters over there during the summer.

So yeah Tommy was looking damn solid after last year.
But why acquire a goaltender in mid-season when you can get one cheaper in the off-season? Buffalo is going to need to make a decision this summer, so why give into them and possibly over pay for one of their tenders before they have to trade one?

And I'm not sure, but Oates-York-Reasoner-Stoll sounds like a pretty solid centre group to me, especially as a temporary stop gap. When you desparately need a # 1 centre, they won't come cheap. Heck, next year isn't so bad if you have York-Reasoner-Stoll-Horcoff. Injuries have hurt, but if you start tossing away resources to pick up a centre, you'll need to make decisions on guys like Stoll and Reasoner. So you've basically picked up a centre for a few months, and now you have to get rid of someone by either trading or releasing.

As for Salo, his 01 season was bad? 73 games 36 wins and 8 shutouts (all career highs) don't sound like a poor season to me.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:11 AM
  #20
Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
Lowe could go live in a spider hole for three years and be exempt from criticism.
Yeah, but a lot of us are Albertans. Ever hear of Ralph Klein?

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:12 AM
  #21
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The draft list 2001-3 is very good imo, complete with top end talent (Hemsky), solid role players (Stoll) and players who address team weaknesses (Deslauriers, Pouliot, Brodziak, Niinimaki). I also really like the trades that brought Mike York and Raffi Torres to the club.

However, the Torres trade (imo) points out a flaw in the team's direction and Lowe's vision for the team. By trading Niinimaa (no matter the return), Lowe exposed the team in an important area. By trading Markkanen, he showed loyalty to Salo and Conklin but also cut loose his safety net. By not addressing the void at center (which existed since training camp) until signing Adam Oates he put his team at a tremendous disadvantage. He also should have fired a coach over the debacle that is our powerplay.

And all of that is fine, though, as long as he takes care of the long term health of the organization. imo, he has done well in that area.

But he can't have his cake and eat it too. If the Oilers decided at training camp or Christmas that no moves would be made to save the season, that's okay. I still spent the $2,500 I planned to this year on Oilers tickets and such, and I'll spend that and more if I can afford to next time they play a season.

But he needs to be honest with the fanbase. "I didn't make a trade when York got hurt and Marty's injury became more serious because the asking price was to high, and frankly, we didn't see the value of taking on a high priced rental. What we need to do now is find out what we have here, and that may mean some veteran players leaving. I promised the fans a competitive team and that we'd make it to 2004. Well, we've been competitive, but this season we came up a little short."

I don't think people would rip up their tickets if Kevin Lowe said that kind of thing. Frankly, I think the fanbase would welcome it.

Because it's the truth.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:16 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
Yeah, but a lot of us are Albertans. Ever hear of Ralph Klein?

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02-19-2004, 12:19 AM
  #23
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The road to NHL success is through draft and development. This requires a patient, steadfast approach and not a reactive, panic to the bumps along the way. K-Lowe has been forthright in communicating this approach to all who will listen.

For me, K-Lowe and the scouting staff have 2-3 years to build a team which can challenge for the Cup. However I will watch to see what this management team does to address three areas of concern: legitimate first-line centre, goaltending, and powerplay defenseman. I think all three of these positions require NHL ready personnel in advance of the (hopeful) arrival of our prospects. I will also watch the Oilers draft strategy and hope they seek out the first-line skill personnel required to win in this league. We have enough depth players.

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02-19-2004, 12:21 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
The road to NHL success is through draft and development. This requires a patient, steadfast approach and not a reactive, panic to the bumps along the way. K-Lowe has been forthright in communicating this approach to all who will listen.

For me, K-Lowe and the scouting staff have 2-3 years to build a team which can challenge for the Cup. However I will watch to see what this management team does to address three areas of concern: legitimate first-line centre, goaltending, and powerplay defenseman. I think all three of these positions require NHL ready personnel in advance of the (hopeful) arrival of our prospects. I will also watch the Oilers draft strategy and hope they seek out the first-line skill personnel required to win in this league. We have enough depth players.

I agree. We have enough 3rd/4th line players and prospects. It's time to take some risks and go for some boom or bust players.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:22 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
But he needs to be honest with the fanbase. "I didn't make a trade when York got hurt and Marty's injury became more serious because the asking price was to high, and frankly, we didn't see the value of taking on a high priced rental. What we need to do now is find out what we have here, and that may mean some veteran players leaving. I promised the fans a competitive team and that we'd make it to 2004. Well, we've been competitive, but this season we came up a little short."

I don't think people would rip up their tickets if Kevin Lowe said that kind of thing. Frankly, I think the fanbase would welcome it.

Because it's the truth.
He has more or less said this, minus the actual giving up. He's admitted that he is looking, but he hasn't found a deal that he likes. At the same time, he's so competetive that he can't just lay down and accept that the team probably won't make the playoffs. I have no doubts that Lowe honestly feels that no matter how many more injuries pile on, his team can gut out a playoff spot.

This may very well be a character flaw of his... the fact he can't admit when he is beaten. It's tough to get that mentality, but some people do, and it can be a pretty awesome site. Maybe this is a learning step for Lowe, but my God, imagine if this team does make the playoffs...

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