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Canucks/Devils Talk Heats up...Canucks also looking at Vermette?

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Old
07-17-2008, 05:45 PM
  #76
vancityluongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Do you actually think Raymond is at the level of Gionta?
Hopefully not.

What would you guys think of a Schneider + something (Ellington?/Sauve?/picks?) for Gionta deal? Vancouver doesn't give up a key piece of the current roster, while if Brodeur retires in 2 years (reasonable), it's a perfect time frame for Schneider to take over.

Sedin-Sedin-Bernier
Raymond-Demitra-Gionta

Ugh, that's a small second line, but they're talented.

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Old
07-17-2008, 05:49 PM
  #77
Jason MacIsaac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Hopefully not.

What would you guys think of a Schneider + something (Ellington?/Sauve?/picks?) for Gionta deal? Vancouver doesn't give up a key piece of the current roster, while if Brodeur retires in 2 years (reasonable), it's a perfect time frame for Schneider to take over.

Sedin-Sedin-Bernier
Raymond-Demitra-Gionta

Ugh, that's a small second line, but they're talented.
I doubt Lou would trade him for that, Lou said there was no goaltenders worth while at this years draft so he is obviously picky with goaltenders...maybe he likes him though.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:06 PM
  #78
TrevorLinden16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
On a defense that has Ohlund, Salo, Edler and Krajicek making up 4 of the 6 players (Mitchell and Bieksa being the other), you can't move the most intimidating guy on the defense, and maybe on the team overall, when you already have a lack of physical presence overall.
Ohlund is 3 inches and 15 pounds bigger than Bieksa. Obviously Bieksa is a bit more of a pugilist, but I wouldn't lump Ohlund with Krajicek et al.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:17 PM
  #79
JonathanHuberdoh
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The Canucks have been "after everyone" this offseason. So far they have.....

Pavol Demitra.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:21 PM
  #80
Todds Chiropractory
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Gionta would be destroyed in the western conference.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:23 PM
  #81
Todds Chiropractory
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Originally Posted by Jok-AtTheDriveIn-en View Post
The Canucks have been "after everyone" this offseason. So far they have.....

Pavol Demitra.
Steve Bernier
Ryan Johnson
Darcy Hordichuk
Kyle Welwood
Jason Krog
John Davidson
Nolan Baumgartner

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:24 PM
  #82
Jason MacIsaac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckaholic19 View Post
Gionta would be destroyed in the western conference.
Explain...have you ever seen Gionta play?

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:27 PM
  #83
Missionhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Explain...have you ever seen Gionta play?
Players under 6' can't play in the west

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:34 PM
  #84
Raven25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckaholic19 View Post
Steve Bernier
Ryan Johnson
Darcy Hordichuk
Kyle Welwood
Jason Krog
John Davidson
Nolan Baumgartner
Sweet - you acquired the Blues' President!

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:46 PM
  #85
Jason MacIsaac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey View Post
Players under 6' can't play in the west
Man, how long has Sakic been out of the league then? 94

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:46 PM
  #86
JannikAtTheDisco
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Originally Posted by Raven25 View Post
Sweet - you acquired the Blues' President!
We gave him an offer sheet right after they gave an offer sheet to Chris Zimmerman. We matched, they didn't.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:46 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckaholic19 View Post
Gionta would be destroyed in the western conference.
Just out of my own curiosity, post-lockout:

2005-06:
EC opponents: 72 GP, 41 G, 39 A, 80 P
WC opponents: 10 GP, 7 G, 2 A, 9 P

2006-07:
EC: 52 GP, 20 G, 18 A, 38 P
WC: 10 GP, 5 G, 2 A, 7 P

2007-08:
EC: 72 GP, 19 G, 25 A, 44 P
WC: 10 GP, 3 G, 6 A, 9 P

totals for the last three years:
EC: 196 GP, 80 G, 82 A, 162 P (0.827 PPG)
WC: 30 GP, 15 G, 10 A, 25 P (0.833 PPG)

It's a small sample space, but I'm not sure I'd draw the conclusion of "destroyed" based on that.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:48 PM
  #88
Burke's Evil Spirit
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Gionta's problem isn't that he's small, his problem is he's a 20 goal scorer earning $4 million. He's trade value is low, and swapping him straight up for Bieksa is laughable.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:54 PM
  #89
NFITO
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Originally Posted by TrevorLinden16 View Post
Ohlund is 3 inches and 15 pounds bigger than Bieksa. Obviously Bieksa is a bit more of a pugilist, but I wouldn't lump Ohlund with Krajicek et al.
and Salo might be bigger than Ohlund... Krajicek and Edler are 6'2" and 6'3" respectively... size isn't everything here... none of those guys are intimidating to play against... even Mitchell doesn't play that aggressively either.

These guys are big bodies and play solid positionally - they are all solid defensemen... but Bieksa brings an edge that no one else does... he throws bigger hits, scraps, is tougher to play against in the corners... he may be positionally the worst dman on the team, but he does so many things that no one else brings, and it's tough to lose those intangibles entirely from the lineup. And replacing that with a guy like Davison, who'd be lucky to get 10 mins a night - and shouldn't even be counted on for a regular role, would be a huge mistake IMO.

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Old
07-17-2008, 06:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Vermette put up 20 more points than Kesler playing less minutes overall, more minutes on the PK, fewer minutes on the PP, playing mostly with third liners like Chris Kelly, Chris Neil, Nick Foligno, and Patrick Eaves.
I don't know much about Kesler other than his point totals, which aren't in the same ballpark as Vermette. With Vermette's great defensive play as well, I wouldn't think that a straight up Kesler/Vermette trade is what Ottawa is looking for. Especially since Kesler is also a centre, and Fisher is already the Sens' second line centerman.

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07-17-2008, 07:01 PM
  #91
Brodeur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
Gionta's problem isn't that he's small, his problem is he's a 20 goal scorer earning $4 million. He's trade value is low, and swapping him straight up for Bieksa is laughable.
I think Gionta's problem is that he needs a center in order to produce. He got 48 with Gomez and 25 in 62 games the following season (projects to low 30s over a full season). Last year, he ended up on the Madden line to finish off the season which had me dumbfounded.

Put him with a playmaking center and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he gets 30+ again.

I agree with you that Gionta isn't worth Bieksa straight up. Gionta's only signed for one more year and Bieksa is, off the the top of my head, signed for three.

Personally would be more than happy to see Gionta play out the season as a Devil. These trade rumors are popping up with the notion that New Jersey could ideally use one more puck moving D and Gionta's our most expendable asset who has some trade value. It also depends if a guy like Nicklas Bergfors is ready to take Gionta's spot.

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Old
07-17-2008, 07:36 PM
  #92
OptimismRestrainer
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
The Gionta for a d-man rumour makes me want to get my pillow...

ZzZzZzZzZzzZzzzz...
The Devils, in general, make me want to get my pillow.......

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Old
07-17-2008, 08:13 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by His Dudeness View Post
I don't know much about Kesler other than his point totals, which aren't in the same ballpark as Vermette. With Vermette's great defensive play as well, I wouldn't think that a straight up Kesler/Vermette trade is what Ottawa is looking for. Especially since Kesler is also a centre, and Fisher is already the Sens' second line centerman.
I guess you should learn more about Kesler then. First thing to learn, Kesler is not a top six forward. He plays 3rd or 4th line centre. Still think he's worth less than Vermette? No. Kesler's trade value is worth far more than Vermette's.

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Old
07-17-2008, 08:17 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Goalie Needed View Post
The Devils, in general, make me want to get my pillow.......
good one.....

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Old
07-17-2008, 09:13 PM
  #95
Ajackalit
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
I guess you should learn more about Kesler then. First thing to learn, Kesler is not a top six forward. He plays 3rd or 4th line centre. Still think he's worth less than Vermette? No. Kesler's trade value is worth far more than Vermette's.
I tend to agree with most of your posts, but I think you're wrong here.

Kesler and Vermette played quite similar roles last year; both were on 1st unit pk, both played third line C. However, Kesler had significantly more time on the PP (40%+) and Vermette logged more PK minutes (7%). In spite of less total minutes and tougher minutes in which to produce offensively, Vermette outscored Kesler by 43%.

Vermette, IMO, is every bit as good a defensive player as Kesler, but a significant upgrade offensively. If he produces like a good 2nd line centre, while playing on the third line, what can Vermette do with skilled line mates and 2.5 minutes of pp time per game???

One other thing i'll mention is FO%. Of the top 30 players in terms of FOs won, Vermette had the 4th highest winning percentage - only Brind'Amor Malhotra and Holik faired better.

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Old
07-17-2008, 09:18 PM
  #96
AfroThunder396
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
Gionta's problem isn't that he's small, his problem is he's a 20 goal scorer earning $4 million. He's trade value is low, and swapping him straight up for Bieksa is laughable.
Gionta got 48 goals playing with Gomez, he could easily score +40 again playing with the Sedins.

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Old
07-17-2008, 09:19 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
I guess you should learn more about Kesler then. First thing to learn, Kesler is not a top six forward. He plays 3rd or 4th line centre. Still think he's worth less than Vermette? No. Kesler's trade value is worth far more than Vermette's.
What you said made no sense whatsoever

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Old
07-17-2008, 09:23 PM
  #98
Peter Griffin
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post

Pass from NJ unless Cory Schneider is comming back.
Schneider and Bieksa or just Schneider? I'd definitely consider a deal centered around Schneider and Gionta, although if Sundin comes here that wouldn't be financially feasible. I really like Gionta and feel he would be a great addition to this team, but with his impending UFA status and with the Canucks needing to re-sign the Sedins, Edler and Ohlund, I have a feeling Gionta would be a one season rental.

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Old
07-17-2008, 09:26 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by iheartnonis View Post
I tend to agree with most of your posts, but I think you're wrong here.

Kesler and Vermette played quite similar roles last year; both were on 1st unit pk, both played third line C. However, Kesler had significantly more time on the PP (40%+) and Vermette logged more PK minutes (7%). In spite of less total minutes and tougher minutes in which to produce offensively, Vermette outscored Kesler by 43%.

Vermette, IMO, is every bit as good a defensive player as Kesler, but a significant upgrade offensively. If he produces like a good 2nd line centre, while playing on the third line, what can Vermette do with skilled line mates and 2.5 minutes of pp time per game???

One other thing i'll mention is FO%. Of the top 30 players in terms of FOs won, Vermette had the 4th highest winning percentage - only Brind'Amor Malhotra and Holik faired better.

yea but will vermette go toe to toe with iginla?

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Old
07-17-2008, 09:31 PM
  #100
HBK27
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
What would you guys think of a Schneider + something (Ellington?/Sauve?/picks?) for Gionta deal? Vancouver doesn't give up a key piece of the current roster, while if Brodeur retires in 2 years (reasonable), it's a perfect time frame for Schneider to take over.
The Devils have zero interest in trading away Gionta for any picks/prospects - especially a goaltending prospect. Brodeur is not retiring in 2 years - he's signed through the 2011-2012 season & given how much he loves playing, there is no reason to believe he won't honor that contract. He's also coming off yet another Vezina winning season, so even if/when his performance does start to decline he will likely still be among the top goaltenders in the league unless there is really an unexpected significant dropoff.

The Devils also don't need any type of Aaron Rodgers / Brett Favre type of scenerio playing out where they have a goaltender of the future pushing out one of the greats of the game. Given all Marty has done for the franchise, he should be able to hang them up on his own terms unless his play really deteriorates to the point where he's hurting the team (at which point he'd probably just retire anyway). Most likely the Devils either draft a goaltender of the future of their own in one of the next few drafts or just acquire a stop gap option via trade or free agency one Marty decides to retire. Not really any chance they acquire Schneider, who will be 26 by the time Marty's contract is up.

Furthermore, the only reason Gionta is being rumored to be shopped is for a defenseman that will help the Devils win NOW, while Brodeur is still on top of his game. No chance they trade him for prospects.

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