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07-21-2008, 09:32 AM
  #1
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Why there HAS to be a trade coming...

Okay, so we've talked about the "logjam at center" and questioned whether there's "room for the kids" and, as always, Squishy's done a great job of analyzing the Wolfpack roster... but I don't think that anyone's taken the time to analyze how truly crowded our forward situation is throughout the organization. As a result, I thought I'd take a shot at laying out exactly how the Rangers would most logically deploy the various forwards we have under contract (or whose signings appear imminent) if they were to enter the 2008-2009 season exactly as they stand now.

Rangers - starters:
Gomez
Drury
Naslund
Zherdev
Prucha
Voros
Fritsche
Dubinsky
Betts
Dawes
Callahan
Sjostrom

Rangers - extras:
Rissmiller
Orr

Wolfpack - starters (AHL teams only dress 11 forwards):
Korpikoski
Anisimov
Parenteau
Moore
Byers
Jessiman
Ouellette
Dupont
Zaborsky
Pyatt
Hillier

Wolfpack - extras:
Jamtin
Soryal

Sent to Checkers
Owens
Barnes
potentially C. Urquhart depending on the veracity of that announcement

Sent back to juniors
Skokan

Sent back to Europe
Kveton

Did I miss anyone? Anyone whose deployment is illogical? If so, it gets MORE crowded. Anyway, assuming I've got everyone who could conceivably play for the Rangers listed, that's:

-at least one (two, depending on whether or not you believe Orr should be in every game) guys in NY sitting in the press box, who should be on the ice;
-a lot of guys playing at HFD, who should be banging down the door of the big club;
-a lot of guys playing bottom 5 in HFD, who should be playing top 6;
-two guys in HFD sitting in the press box, who were signed specifically to play there;
-one guy in Charlotte who was signed to play at HFD; and
-two guys sent back to their junior/European clubs who also could well demand time at HFD.

And that's without adding any veteran presence on the forward lines at HFD or the persistant Shanny signing rumor!

What this tells me is that, barring a massive rash of injuries, there simply isn't enough room for all of these players on the Rangers or the Wolfpack. As far as I'm concerned, Slats is virtually guaranteed to make one or more moves between now and the start of the season.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 07-21-2008 at 09:38 AM.
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Old
07-21-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Okay, so we've talked about the "logjam at center" and questioned whether there's "room for the kids" and, as always, Squishy's done a great job of analyzing the Wolfpack roster... but I don't think that anyone's taken the time to analyze how truly crowded our forward situation is throughout the organization. As a result, I thought I'd take a shot at laying out exactly how the Rangers would most logically deploy the various forwards we have under contract (or whose signings appear imminent) if they were to enter the 2008-2009 season exactly as they stand now.

Rangers - starters:
Gomez
Drury
Naslund
Zherdev
Prucha
Voros
Fritsche
Dubinsky
Betts
Dawes
Callahan
Sjostrom

Rangers - extras:
Rissmiller
Orr

Wolfpack - starters (AHL teams only dress 11 forwards):
Korpikoski
Anisimov
Parenteau
Moore
Byers
Jessiman
Ouellette
Dupont
Zaborsky
Pyatt
Hillier

Wolfpack - extras:
Jamtin
Soryal

Sent to Checkers
Owens
Barnes
potentially C. Urquhart depending on the veracity of that announcement

Sent back to juniors
Skokan

Sent back to Europe
Kveton

Did I miss anyone? Anyone whose deployment is illogical? If so, it gets MORE crowded. Anyway, assuming I've got everyone who could conceivably play for the Rangers listed, that's:

-at least one (two, depending on whether or not you believe Orr should be in every game) guys in NY sitting in the press box, who should be on the ice;
-a lot of guys playing at HFD, who should be banging down the door of the big club;
-a lot of guys playing bottom 5 in HFD, who should be playing top 6;
-two guys in HFD sitting in the press box, who were signed specifically to play there;
-one guy in Charlotte who was signed to play at HFD; and
-two guys sent back to their junior/European clubs who also could well demand time at HFD.

And that's without adding any veteran presence on the forward lines at HFD or the persistant Shanny signing rumor!

What this tells me is that, barring a massive rash of injuries, there simply isn't enough room for all of these players on the Rangers or the Wolfpack. As far as I'm concerned, Slats is virtually guaranteed to make one or more moves between now and the start of the season.
I like your analysis and your way of reaching it
Totally agree!
Have been saying this for some time now

The interesting part is Who, When and where and What we get in return? The Why is obvious.
Only time will tell

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Old
07-21-2008, 09:45 AM
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i dont know about anyone else but having a glut of young prospects is not a bad thing. I remember a time when all this organization had in it's system was Darren Langdon

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07-21-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Okay, so we've talked about the "logjam at center" and questioned whether there's "room for the kids" and, as always, Squishy's done a great job of analyzing the Wolfpack roster... but I don't think that anyone's taken the time to analyze how truly crowded our forward situation is throughout the organization. As a result, I thought I'd take a shot at laying out exactly how the Rangers would most logically deploy the various forwards we have under contract (or whose signings appear imminent) if they were to enter the 2008-2009 season exactly as they stand now.

Rangers - starters:
Gomez
Drury
Naslund
Zherdev
Prucha
Voros
Fritsche
Dubinsky
Betts
Dawes
Callahan
Sjostrom

Rangers - extras:
Rissmiller
Orr

Wolfpack - starters (AHL teams only dress 11 forwards):
Korpikoski
Anisimov
Parenteau
Moore
Byers
Jessiman
Ouellette
Dupont
Zaborsky
Pyatt
Hillier

Wolfpack - extras:
Jamtin
Soryal

Sent to Checkers
Owens
Barnes
potentially C. Urquhart depending on the veracity of that announcement

Sent back to juniors
Skokan

Sent back to Europe
Kveton

Did I miss anyone? Anyone whose deployment is illogical? If so, it gets MORE crowded. Anyway, assuming I've got everyone who could conceivably play for the Rangers listed, that's:

-at least one (two, depending on whether or not you believe Orr should be in every game) guys in NY sitting in the press box, who should be on the ice;
-a lot of guys playing at HFD, who should be banging down the door of the big club;
-a lot of guys playing bottom 5 in HFD, who should be playing top 6;
-two guys in HFD sitting in the press box, who were signed specifically to play there;
-one guy in Charlotte who was signed to play at HFD; and
-two guys sent back to their junior/European clubs who also could well demand time at HFD.

And that's without adding any veteran presence on the forward lines at HFD or the persistant Shanny signing rumor!

What this tells me is that, barring a massive rash of injuries, there simply isn't enough room for all of these players on the Rangers or the Wolfpack. As far as I'm concerned, Slats is virtually guaranteed to make one or more moves between now and the start of the season.
so rissmiller signed for 1 mil to be an extra depth forward i dont know why we signed marcel hossa part 2. at least voros replaces avery orr or hollweg.

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07-21-2008, 10:05 AM
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I don't think there's anything wrong with having Rissmiller and Orr ride the bench just in case we face major injury problems. However, if Korpo does well early on it would be difficult to see why the Rangers wouldn't call him up to give some more energy and some scoring to that third line. I have to say Prucha always seems like the odd man out if he's not considered for those top two lines.

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07-21-2008, 10:17 AM
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The question is, a trade for what?

Clearing space and signing another UFA?

Trading out some dead wood and getting another solid defenseman?

Trading some salary and possibly some prospects to get in a legit top 6 winger?

Anything other than that and its a bit of a waste, there's no need for another redundant part like another solid 3 line winger, obviously.

I think the Rangers biggest need now is another legit top 6 winger, that can play both sides of the puck and secondly a solid hitting defenseman that can join the current group of 6. An injury to two of those could suddenly prove devastating, because of the lack of a seasoned 7th man, if they dont decide to take on Pock. Having Mara and Kalinin being the 6th and 7th guys is a good position to be in.

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07-21-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRKing View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with having Rissmiller and Orr ride the bench just in case we face major injury problems. However, if Korpo does well early on it would be difficult to see why the Rangers wouldn't call him up to give some more energy and some scoring to that third line. I have to say Prucha always seems like the odd man out if he's not considered for those top two lines.
The problem with Rissmiller riding the bench is you're paying him 1M. That's a lot to not play.

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07-21-2008, 10:27 AM
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The problem with Rissmiller riding the bench is you're paying him 1M. That's a lot to not play.
Agreed - that's why I listed him as one of the many problems stemming from the overabundance. I can see Renney benching Rissmiller, if he feels it gives him the best chance to win - but I can't see Slats keeping him for very long in the press box taking up that kind of cap space.

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07-21-2008, 10:28 AM
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This team is so weird.....I don't feel any connection with those guys as Rangers....anyone else? maybe in time...I don't know

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07-21-2008, 10:30 AM
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you know...I love brandon dubinsky.....but the kid has some serious trade value right now. I think packaging him with Roszival and Sanguinetti...and throwing a 1st in there would most likely land you Kovalchuk....definitely Gaborik.

do you make that move?

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07-21-2008, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
you know...I love brandon dubinsky.....but the kid has some serious trade value right now. I think packaging him with Roszival and Sanguinetti...and throwing a 1st in there would most likely land you Kovalchuk....definitely Gaborik.

do you make that move?
For Kovalchuk, YES!

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07-21-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
The question is, a trade for what?

Clearing space and signing another UFA?

Trading out some dead wood and getting another solid defenseman?

Trading some salary and possibly some prospects to get in a legit top 6 winger?

Anything other than that and its a bit of a waste, there's no need for another redundant part like another solid 3 line winger, obviously.

I think the Rangers biggest need now is another legit top 6 winger, that can play both sides of the puck and secondly a solid hitting defenseman that can join the current group of 6. An injury to two of those could suddenly prove devastating, because of the lack of a seasoned 7th man, if they dont decide to take on Pock. Having Mara and Kalinin being the 6th and 7th guys is a good position to be in.
I can see something like this happening - Glen Sather style - although it is not what i would like to see to fill out the also imo theoretical needs you correctly point out are necessary to fill:
Cap space Now is 1.302.000 (thanx Kodiak)
Sjöström signed at 880.000
Cap space is then 420.000
Sjöström (or Rissmiller/Voros which I seriously doubt) and a lower prospect (Moore?) are traded to San Jose for Doug Murray (creates 330.000)
Remaining cap space is then at 750.000 with 7 defensemen signed
  • Prucha, the Hollweg pick and Callahan/Fritsche (one of the two) sent to Vancouver for Tyler Pyatt
Creates 650.000 in cap space
Shanny is resigned at the remaining breadcrumbs ie = 1.400.000 + Performance bonuses of 1,400,000 (still viable in the CBA section 50.2biC due to Shanny's age + section 50.5hii regarding team overage of 7,5%)

Team

Näslund - Gomez - Pyatt
Dawes - Drury - Zherdev
Callahan/Fritsche **(survivor) - Dubinsky - Shanahan
Rissmiller - Betts - Voros/Orr

Redden - Staal
Rozie - Girardi
Kalinin - Mara
Murray


Now that is some sandpaper...
Probably just a bit of a mad rave but... interesting... And plausible
Too many changes imo..
I personally would not resign Shanny - but go with younger fresher legs

Thoughts?

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07-21-2008, 10:43 AM
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I think any trade will be salary dump move for '09 draft picks to give us some room to make a deadline deal. I really don't see us adding any one new to the team before camp.

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07-21-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I think any trade will be salary dump move for '09 draft picks to give us some room to make a deadline deal. I really don't see us adding any one new to the team before camp.
Both logical & preferable

But c´mon - this is the New York Rangers

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07-21-2008, 10:55 AM
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no to taylor pyatt...no point.

and if we trade any forward...pruchas the man

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07-21-2008, 10:55 AM
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Sather is going to make room for Shanahan

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07-21-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
you know...I love brandon dubinsky.....but the kid has some serious trade value right now. I think packaging him with Roszival and Sanguinetti...and throwing a 1st in there would most likely land you Kovalchuk....definitely Gaborik.

do you make that move?
Interesting... that is a pretty lucrative package that could land you a serious player. Gaborik is a FA next year, though. It could land you a player of Kovalchuk's caliber... but not Kovalchuk himself. He is currently that entire franchise. You're better off getting him when he's a UFA in 2010.

According to http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/ you guys are already over the cap. If there is a trade coming... I'm not sure how much quality is coming back your way... as its likely a trade to lose some cap space might happen.

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07-21-2008, 11:07 AM
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I think any trade will be salary dump move for '09 draft picks to give us some room to make a deadline deal. I really don't see us adding any one new to the team before camp.
I can totally see that. Prucha and Betts get dumped for picks/defense prospects. Rissmiller steps in for Betts and Korpikoski/Anisimov plays for Prucha. You're left with 13 forwards on the big squad, with Moore riding the shuttle whenever there's a need. So you get some combination that looks like:

Naslund-Gomez-Korpikoski*
Dawes-Drury-Zherdev
Sjostrom-Dubinsky-Fritsche
Voros-Rissmiller-Callahan
Orr

*In this scenario, you obviously have to ask someone to step up to be a top 6, who previously hasn't filled that role. I chose Korpi with Gomez, just 'cause I love the idea of their speed together (not because I think one goal in one PO game makes him an instant 40 goal scorer). Could easily be someone else such as Callahan/Sjostrom/Fritsche - and Zherdev could obviously play with Gomez, leaving the new guy to play with Drury. Or you could move Drury to wing, shift Dubinsky up to 2nd line, Fritsche to 3rd line center and play one of Naslund or Dawes on the right side (and therefore out of position).

My only concern in this scenario, is that the cap space created would then be immediately spent on Shanahan to "play the 3rd line", while Korpikoski/Anisimov continues to toil in the minors. In which case you get the following:

Naslund-Gomez-Zherdev
Dawes-Drury-Shanahan*
Sjostrom-Dubinsky-Fritsche
Voros-Rissmiller-Callahan
Orr

*Problem is... I just don't see Shanahan staying in the bottom 6. And even if he did stay on the bottom 6, he'd stick out like a sore thumb in a team built for speed.

And the REAL problem is... I think this is the likely scenario...

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07-21-2008, 11:19 AM
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Signing Rissmiller and Voros at $1m apiece was just stupid. Neither is better than a 3rd line player at best.

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07-21-2008, 11:28 AM
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Signing Rissmiller and Voros at $1m apiece was just stupid. Neither is better than a 3rd line player at best.
voros is only 26 years old and signed to a 3 year contract same for rismiller but he is 30

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07-21-2008, 11:40 AM
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A couple of injuries in the pre-season will take of these "problems".

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07-21-2008, 11:42 AM
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i agree with the op....i have said it a few times but if anyone reads sams blog, his last live time blog where people could ask questions he said how renney and sather were disapointed with the point totals from the 4th line, which is why i think voros, rissmiller and sjostrom were brought in......i think prucha and betts will be traded along with some prospects before camp for picks+prospects(younger, still in minors)

naslund-gomez-zherdev
dawes-drury-fritsche
callahan-dubinsky-korpikoski
voros-rissmiller-sjostrom
orr

that lineup makes the most sense.....i know people love betts, but he isnt as good as rissmiller or sjostrom....he is one dimensional......and has practically no offensive ability......do i like him?.....absolutely, but sather was able to upgrade that entire line.....6-8 goals changed to 20-25 goals from the 4th line is a big deal.

if hollweg could get a 5th rounder, i have a feeling betts could get at least a 4th

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07-21-2008, 11:47 AM
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BRF - I too can see someone like Rissmiller taking over for Betts, with them thinking that Rissmiller is better offensively. And while Betts may be better defensively, I think the Rangers are trying to find more offense from the bottom six. Whether or not Rissmiller can contribute as much as he contributed the last few seasons while playing less minuts is not known, however, and if the Rangers' brass are thinking this is the way they'd like to go, I'm not totally convinced they're correct in their thinking (but of course I admit to not knowing as much about Rissmiller as I do Betts).

Prucha's a forgone conclusion to be gone before December, and the Rangers won't attempt to create value for him, thus he may be the $1.6MM guy sitting in the stands. They should either move him right before camp or play him on Dubi's left and on the first PP unit on the left side and give it a whirl (and if he works out, trade him at a higher value, and if he doesn't work out, oh well, that's why you attempt to trade him before camp opens).

I also don't doubt guys like Korps, Byers and Moore beginning the season in HFD. Of course, all three are unlikely to be with the NHL club when the season opens as it's tough enough making room for one. The season's long, however, and their first callup may also be the one that keeps them in NY, or creates a bargaining chip for a trade later in the season (if there's any space at the deadline or sooner).

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07-21-2008, 11:49 AM
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viper - I agree about Betts getting a fourth, but feel that he was really the anchor on that line, especially when going against top lines, and he's a fair amount better offensively than Hollweg. One would hope that he could fetch a third [of course you said "at least..." so we are in agreement]. A very good PKer. Good centerman who was able, at times, to go against top lines competently (and let's face it, the centerman has the most work on that line, then the defensemen, then the wingers). `

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07-21-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
you know...I love brandon dubinsky.....but the kid has some serious trade value right now. I think packaging him with Roszival and Sanguinetti...and throwing a 1st in there would most likely land you Kovalchuk....definitely Gaborik.

do you make that move?
Absolutely

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