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Something that Worries me about Cole...

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Old
07-20-2008, 07:45 PM
  #26
Cerebral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I think the concern is pretty unwarranted.

Went through 11 goals.

3 were end to end rushes.

2 were tip ins in front.

1 was a bowl over in front.

3 were in the hashmarks, between the circles.

2 were in the slot from the left side.
It's not just the goals though. Cole is one of the best in the NHL at drawing penalties and if you go back and watch the clips, a large majority of the penalties Cole draws are due to him using his size and speed on the right wing and consequently forcing the opposing defenceman to haul him down.

I don't think there is any doubt Cole can still be an effective player on the left wing but I'm still not sold that's how the Edmonton Oilers can best utilize his talents. On the flip side, I think Cole and Hemsky are absolutely perfect linemates besides the position issue so we'll have to wait and see.

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07-20-2008, 07:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by jet228 View Post

Different forward positions dictate different responsibilities, different angles, different muscle memory. You try one timing a laser from your off wing. It's a hell of a lot harder than you are making it out to be. Making a power move inside from your off wing is totally different too... the way you protect the puck is not the same.

Bottom line is some guys are comfortable playing the off wing and some aren't. Same with LD/RD.
Like I said previously, I played hockey for a lot of years and I was usually a left winger. It's a heck of a lot easier making a power move to the net on your off-wing when you can shield the puck on your back-hand and cut in on your forehand than it is on your natural wing where you can't really get position on the opposing defenceman.

A lot of people think an NHL player can just switch from position to position easily and that is certainly not the case. The same holds true for defencemen and which side of the ice they like to play on (which we've already heard Visnovsky mention).

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07-20-2008, 07:57 PM
  #28
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Exactly, I played hockey for a lot of years and hated when coaches would figure "he shoots left, you're on LW." I absolutely refused to play LW because I could never get the hang of it being naturally a centre but RW if needed. To the point I argued with a coach about it where he was all "LW or defense, your choice."
I ended the year as a defenseman which I had no previous experience as, but still did better than I would have on the left side.

Another part of the reason I never really pay much attention to people's lineups when they make them. They'll toss a player anywhere, left, right, centre....

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07-20-2008, 07:57 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I remember the 1st time that I thought of that line as a combo. Size, skill, goalscoring ability, speed. Who'd match up with that line???

The 2nd line would be an all skill line, and IMO would be better than many think because they would know when to shoot the puck, and it would get all 3 to think "shot" more often than they might on other lines.

3rd scoring line...

Schremp-Pouliot-Cogliano

checking line...

Moreau-Brodziak-Pisani

looks pretty solid to me.

Schremp will not be in the lineup to start the season no matter how bad you would like him to be.

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07-20-2008, 08:00 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
It's not just the goals though. Cole is one of the best in the NHL at drawing penalties and if you go back and watch the clips, a large majority of the penalties Cole draws are due to him using his size and speed on the right wing and consequently forcing the opposing defenceman to haul him down.

I don't think there is any doubt Cole can still be an effective player on the left wing but I'm still not sold that's how the Edmonton Oilers can best utilize his talents. On the flip side, I think Cole and Hemsky are absolutely perfect linemates besides the position issue so we'll have to wait and see.
That makes more sense.

Would Hemsky be able to play the other side if it was an issue?

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07-20-2008, 08:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
I don't see any reason why Cole should step in and take over Penner's spot. Toss the guy on line 2. Won't matter.
Well apparently MacT wants to keep the kid line together at least for now. I say let the two of them fight it out. You feel Penner should just have the 1st line LW spot no matter what? I say whoever is best in camp and pre-season gets the spot.

But if you want to go on stats Cole is a strong ES scorer. Penner last year could have been better in this area IMO. But Penner had better PP numbers despite playing slightly less PP minutes per game than Cole (only 20-30 seconds less but still).

So unless Cole under performs in pre-season. I would probably go with Cole on the 1st line and then Penner gets the top PP unit and Cole drops down to the 2nd unit.

Beyond all of that. Cole has the foot speed to keep up with Hemmer & Horc on the rush. So I am curious to see if those guys have any kind of decent chemistry together.


Last edited by Oilerdiehard: 07-20-2008 at 08:28 PM.
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07-20-2008, 08:11 PM
  #32
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When the Hurricanes won the cup, which was also his best year ppg wise, he was primarily used as a left wing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but a quick search on google also seems to indicate that he mostly played lw back then too.

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07-20-2008, 08:26 PM
  #33
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Reality is we have Gagner, Hemsky, Cole, Horcoff, Penner, Cogliano, and Nilsson who are all top 6 forwards. Schremp also has the skill set to play a top 6 role on this team (only chance for that will come through injury).

This all means that we are in very good shape heading into the new season. It's a much better problem to have than not having enough players to fill those spots.

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07-20-2008, 08:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by oilersrule14 View Post
When the Hurricanes won the cup, which was also his best year ppg wise, he was primarily used as a left wing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but a quick search on google also seems to indicate that he mostly played lw back then too.
I have vivid memories of Cole burning Spacek wide down the RW shift after shift in the finals.

Beyond that BBO asked this question on the Canes board. Apparently he has played both LW and RW in the past and does not mind one over the other. But did make the comment that which ever wing the coaching staff puts him on he would like to stay on that wing for the season and not be switched back and forth.

They also said he has been a RW primarily the last few seasons so I think he was RW during the cup year regular season.

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07-20-2008, 09:01 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersrule14 View Post
When the Hurricanes won the cup, which was also his best year ppg wise, he was primarily used as a left wing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but a quick search on google also seems to indicate that he mostly played lw back then too.
He played RW that season on a line with Stillman and Staal.

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07-20-2008, 09:12 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Well apparently MacT wants to keep the kid line together at least for now. I say let the two of them fight it out. You feel Penner should just have the 1st line LW spot no matter what? I say whoever is best in camp and pre-season gets the spot.

But if you want to go on stats Cole is a strong ES scorer. Penner last year could have been better in this area IMO. But Penner had better PP numbers despite playing slightly less PP minutes per game than Cole (only 20-30 seconds less but still).

So unless Cole under performs in pre-season. I would probably go with Cole on the 1st line.
Again, Penner is a natural LW'r and Cole is RW. Why would he step in and take over first line left wing? I'm not saying they shouldn't battle for a spot, but why transition a guy over just to knock off Penner?

I wouldn't mind seeing a Penner LW - Horcoff - Cole line. I think a lot of damage could be done there. But why take Hemsky off line one? The kid line won't be together forever.

The Oilers are in a funny spot to have three solid scoring lines. No sense to just jam players in the top 6, or demote players when it's really a top 9 in Edmonton.

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07-20-2008, 09:12 PM
  #37
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the first goal in the clip is Cole doing a power move from the left side.

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07-20-2008, 09:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Andrew Hutchinson View Post
He played RW that season on a line with Stillman and Staal.
okay, thanks to you and oilersdiehard for correcting me.

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07-20-2008, 09:19 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
LOL I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you've never played hockey at a decent level.

Lemieux is a generational talent, some would suggest a healthy more motivatied Mario could have broken all of Gretzky's records. You suggesting that because he could play a different forward position and excel at it then anyone can is laughable.

Different forward positions dictate different responsibilities, different angles, different muscle memory. You try one timing a laser from your off wing. It's a hell of a lot harder than you are making it out to be. Making a power move inside from your off wing is totally different too... the way you protect the puck is not the same.

Bottom line is some guys are comfortable playing the off wing and some aren't. Same with LD/RD.
The wink means he's kidding.

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07-20-2008, 09:24 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Supermassive View Post
The wink means he's kidding.
I think he was hitting on him.

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07-20-2008, 09:30 PM
  #41
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Forwards don't get used ar LW,C,RW really anymore in alot of coaching techniques when it comes to offense.
They set Up like LW-C-RW on the faceoff dot ( Usually ) and in breakouts from the D zone ( From D to O ) depends what winger is on what side at what time.

They go As F1, F2, and F3.

F1 - First guy in the zone after a dump in ( Crash and Bang )
F2 - Second guy in the zone ( Obtains the Puck )
F3 - Goes to High slot ( Ready for shot or Offensive move )

But, if the side gets dumped to the left, usually the leftwing is F1 and same goes for rightwing on the Rightside. The 2 Wingers should be F1 and F2 because the Center has a further way to go to get to the Ozone.

After that they work the Cycle with F1 and F2 while F3 stays in slot. If the puck Switches sides F3 goes to that side and cycles with the next closest forward while the left over forward goes to the slot.

I read in a THN magazine that this is how most if not all teams are coached now

So Really he is playing LW but he will be playing on both the right and left side in the Offensive zone.


Last edited by ProtestTheHero: 07-20-2008 at 09:40 PM.
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07-20-2008, 10:02 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
Again, Penner is a natural LW'r and Cole is RW. Why would he step in and take over first line left wing? I'm not saying they shouldn't battle for a spot, but why transition a guy over just to knock off Penner?

I wouldn't mind seeing a Penner LW - Horcoff - Cole line. I think a lot of damage could be done there. But why take Hemsky off line one? The kid line won't be together forever.

The Oilers are in a funny spot to have three solid scoring lines. No sense to just jam players in the top 6, or demote players when it's really a top 9 in Edmonton.
I think this is a question for the coaching staff. As apparently this what they plan to do. For whatever their reason they want to start the year with Cole on the LW. Maybe MacT will change his mind on that but I would not count on it.

If I had to hazard a guess though. I think they think Cole may be a better fit with his speed and strong ES play to hang with Hemksy and Horcoff. But that is just my guess at their thinking.

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07-20-2008, 10:36 PM
  #43
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My concern with Cole is he won't move the puck enough to work well with our top line players.

Carolina had forwards who make delay plays and w/o much of a 4 attacker joining their rush(es) Cole was given a license to bury his shoulder and drive the net. It was effective for him...

Here in Edmonton...we have more creativity and contribution from the 'D' and I think Cole willl need to learn to pass the puck more.

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07-20-2008, 10:42 PM
  #44
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FYI... Horcoff needs to play with Hemsky. Remember the last time those two were split up? Horcs stunk it up on a line with Poophole and Smyth. He's only effective if he can play with a playmaker.

WG

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07-20-2008, 10:48 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtestTheHero View Post
Forwards don't get used ar LW,C,RW really anymore in alot of coaching techniques when it comes to offense.
They set Up like LW-C-RW on the faceoff dot ( Usually ) and in breakouts from the D zone ( From D to O ) depends what winger is on what side at what time.

They go As F1, F2, and F3.

F1 - First guy in the zone after a dump in ( Crash and Bang )
F2 - Second guy in the zone ( Obtains the Puck )
F3 - Goes to High slot ( Ready for shot or Offensive move )

But, if the side gets dumped to the left, usually the leftwing is F1 and same goes for rightwing on the Rightside. The 2 Wingers should be F1 and F2 because the Center has a further way to go to get to the Ozone.

After that they work the Cycle with F1 and F2 while F3 stays in slot. If the puck Switches sides F3 goes to that side and cycles with the next closest forward while the left over forward goes to the slot.

I read in a THN magazine that this is how most if not all teams are coached now

So Really he is playing LW but he will be playing on both the right and left side in the Offensive zone.
This is true. But in the defensive zone, Cole will be playing the left-wing. Cole has scored a lot of his goals on the rush. Any rushes that start in the defensive zone or the neutral zone will have Cole on the left side of the ice. Thus negating the whole rush thing.

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07-20-2008, 10:50 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
This is true. But in the defensive zone, Cole will be playing the left-wing. Cole has scored a lot of his goals on the rush. Any rushes that start in the defensive zone or the neutral zone will have Cole on the left side of the ice. Thus negating the whole rush thing.
Exactly. The whole 'off wing' thins is almost always easy to do...until you try clearing the puck out of the D zone with a back handed play.

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07-20-2008, 10:55 PM
  #47
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I would be interested at giving Nilsson a shot with Schremp at some point this season to try and rekindle some WBS chemistry.

Penner - Horc - Hemsky
Cogliano - Gagner - Cole
Nilsson - Schremp - Pisani
Moreau - Brodziak - Stortini
I think Schremp is going to be given every chance in the world to make the team, if he does I would love to see.

Penner-Horc-Hemmer
Nilson-Gags-Cole
Shremp-Cogs-Pisani
Moreau-Brods-STortini

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07-20-2008, 11:04 PM
  #48
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Or

Penner-Horc-Cole
Nillson-Gagner-Hemsky

Lots of ways to line up. The way MacT likes to play and with this lineup you have to think the EV minutes will be pretty evenly distributed.
Very interesting...it never occurred to me to put Cole and Penner on the 1st line. One concern i would have with this is that it makes the 2nd line very easy to play against. They would need some serious sheltering.
The other thing is that MacT would be playing his best player on the second line which would mean reduced minutes for Hemsky.

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07-20-2008, 11:42 PM
  #49
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Very interesting...it never occurred to me to put Cole and Penner on the 1st line. One concern i would have with this is that it makes the 2nd line very easy to play against. They would need some serious sheltering.
The other thing is that MacT would be playing his best player on the second line which would mean reduced minutes for Hemsky.
Another line combo I mentioned in the past could be Penner-Gagner-Cole.

MacT kind of threw it out there around the time of the trades. Like he was thinking out loud whether or not a guy like Nilsson could be ready for 1st line minutes. Nilsson-Horcoff-Hemsky.

One thing would be for sure Gagner should have plenty of time and space with those two big wingers creating havoc.

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07-20-2008, 11:59 PM
  #50
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Take Hemsky away from Horcoff and we'll see that Horcoff is truly a 2nd line center.

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