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looks like Lowe was wrong about Burke gutting the Ducks

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07-22-2008, 02:14 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Burke seems to me to be the type of GM who doesn't care about the long term because he doesn't plan on being there long term. He has a piss poor draft record and he is one year away from ditching the horrendous problems he is creating and heading over to Toronto to start the cycle over again. Wow, to think people used to consider this guy a top GM. As MacT said, the curtain has opened on the Burke.
Can you realistically say that Burke's draft record in Anaheim is poor? The guy has drafted tons of NHL prospects such as Mark Mitera, Matt Beleskey, Logan MacMillan, Eric Tangradi, Jake Gardiner, Nicolas Deschamps, Eric O'Dell and others. I'd say he's done a fantastic job of drafting.

Notice I didn't include Bobby Ryan, Brendan Mikkelsson, Brian Salcido or anyone else from that 2005 draft. That's because Burke had little to nothing to do with that draft, and the scouting staff handled it. That said, they did a pretty damn good job IMO.


As for how bad of a job Burke's done, not only has he won a cup, but once Schneider is gone and Selanne is signed, he'll have another team ready to compete for one. Still one of the league's best defenses, top-notch goaltending and a pretty solid group of forwards. But, no, let's ignore reality for a bit and just jump on Burke.

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07-22-2008, 02:18 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
But, no, let's ignore reality for a bit and just jump on Burke.
Ignore reality? Reality is that Burke is going to have to realistically not only get rid of Schneider but another player as well to have breathing room under the cap AND sign Selanne.

::Edit::

...and he's also gonna get reamed with the players/draft picks/prospects coming back in any deals he makes.

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07-22-2008, 02:24 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Julio18 View Post
Nope - definitely not alphabetical. Probably just a coincidence that the Ducks are first in line. This can't be construed in any other manner - it screams damage control for the fickle fans in la la land.

Whatever - I really couldn't care less about the whole schpeal anyway. Burke got what he wanted anyway; his time in the controversial lime light. Why not just pay some celebs to come out and have TMZ do the rest.

JULY
21
Anaheim
Ducks

22
Atlanta
Thrashers

23
Chicago
Blackhawks

24
Boston
Bruins

25
Colorado
Avalanche

28
New Jersey
Devils

29
Dallas
Stars

25
Carolina
Hurricanes

31
Columbus Blue Jackets
You can't see the pattern there? It's very much in alphabetical order, but they alternate the divisions. It goes Pacific, Southeast, Central, Northeast, Northwest, Atlantic and it's alphabetical for each 5 teams in the division. The reason Boston doesn't come after Atlanta is because they clearly wanted to alternate Western conference divisions and Eastern conference division. Other than that it is very much in alphabetical order.

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07-22-2008, 02:34 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
You can't see the pattern there? It's very much in alphabetical order, but they alternate the divisions. It goes Pacific, Southeast, Central, Northeast, Northwest, Atlantic and it's alphabetical for each 5 teams in the division. The reason Boston doesn't come after Atlanta is because they clearly wanted to alternate Western conference divisions and Eastern conference division. Other than that it is very much in alphabetical order.
Calgary should be done before Colorado, then.

I don't see what the big deal over the Ducks being featured first anyway.

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07-22-2008, 02:35 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Ignore reality? Reality is that Burke is going to have to realistically not only get rid of Schneider but another player as well to have breathing room under the cap AND sign Selanne.

::Edit::

...and he's also gonna get reamed with the players/draft picks/prospects coming back in any deals he makes.
That comment was more directed towards people who claim that Burke's done a horrible job from all angles and is a horrible GM, where reality is that he's done just as good of a job as anybody over the last 3 or so years.

However, I can't see him having too much difficulty getting rid of Schneider. The guy's a top pairing defenseman with 1 year left on his deal. People, usually that one Oiler fan, keep claiming that no GM will help him out, but realistically what GM would be dumb enough to pass up on a very good deal for his team just to spite Burke? And, even if that is the case, no chance Schneider would clear waivers, some team would claim him then. I wouldn't even doubt it if Marchant was claimed, which could also free up cap space.

Also, regarding the $50 million thing, currently the Ducks are spending roughly over $55 million for next season. So, if Schneider is gone, they're under, and I can't see them being particularily sticky about going a million or two over. If Marchant goes, then we're laughing.

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07-22-2008, 02:38 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
That comment was more directed towards people who claim that Burke's done a horrible job from all angles and is a horrible GM, where reality is that he's done just as good of a job as anybody over the last 3 or so years.

However, I can't see him having too much difficulty getting rid of Schneider. The guy's a top pairing defenseman with 1 year left on his deal. People, usually that one Oiler fan, keep claiming that no GM will help him out, but realistically what GM would be dumb enough to pass up on a very good deal for his team just to spite Burke? And, even if that is the case, no chance Schneider would clear waivers, some team would claim him then. I wouldn't even doubt it if Marchant was claimed, which could also free up cap space.

Also, regarding the $50 million thing, currently the Ducks are spending roughly over $55 million for next season. So, if Schneider is gone, they're under, and I can't see them being particularily sticky about going a million or two over. If Marchant goes, then we're laughing.
Quick question before we continue. Have you even looked at the Ducks cap numbers right now? They're 3.2 million OVER.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=ANA

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07-22-2008, 02:39 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Danny View Post
Calgary should be done before Colorado, then.

I don't see what the big deal over the Ducks being featured first anyway.
Hmm, you're right about that. Not sure why that is, as otherwise it fits that pattern perfectly.

As for it being a big deal, I guess some people just figure there's some sort of conspiracy with Burke and the NHL. Next thing you know people will start claiming the fix was in during the 2007 playoffs.

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07-22-2008, 02:43 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Quick question before we continue. Have you even looked at the Ducks cap numbers right now? They're 3.2 million OVER.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=ANA
Figured someone would bring this up. So, quick question before we continue. Have you ever realized that the money a team spends on salary during a given season is different than their cap number? I don't imagine Anaheim is too worried about having a high cap number as opposed to actually spending a high amount on salary.

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07-22-2008, 02:44 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
Hmm, you're right about that. Not sure why that is, as otherwise it fits that pattern perfectly.

As for it being a big deal, I guess some people just figure there's some sort of conspiracy with Burke and the NHL. Next thing you know people will start claiming the fix was in during the 2007 playoffs.
Because all the teams listed are American.

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07-22-2008, 02:44 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
That's one of the reasons why I'm calling it a 'firesale'. Burke has zero leverage in any trade and teams are going sooo take advantage of that.
It would be pure karma. I hope he gets fleeced, and then holds another press conference where he can talk about some other GM in terms of grenades and sewers.

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07-22-2008, 02:48 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
It would be pure karma. I hope he gets fleeced, and then holds another press conference where he can talk about some other GM in terms of grenades and sewers.
LMAO

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
Figured someone would bring this up. So, quick question before we continue. Have you ever realized that the money a team spends on salary during a given season is different than their cap number? I don't imagine Anaheim is too worried about having a high cap number as opposed to actually spending a high amount on salary.
You really don't know the dynamics of the Salary cap do you? You really don't fully get why the Ducks are so screwed at this point in time....and they haven't even signed Selanne yet.

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07-22-2008, 02:49 AM
  #62
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It would be pure karma. I hope he gets fleeced, and then holds another press conference where he can talk about some other GM in terms of grenades and sewers.
How is that even close to running his team into the sewer? Hell, getting little for Schneider wouldn't even be that bad. It's not like he paid anything to get him other than money.

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07-22-2008, 02:50 AM
  #63
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Anaheim has 14 UFAs next season, including all of their current defensemen except for Pronger?

Edit: just noticed they have $31.8M tied up next season and only eight players (five Fs, one D, two Gs) under contract.


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07-22-2008, 02:53 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
You really don't know the dynamics of the Salary cap do you? You really don't fully get why the Ducks are so screwed at this point in time....and they haven't even signed Selanne yet.
Um, what? Once they get rid of Schneider, they're looking at around $2.5 million in space. That's more than enough to sign Selanne and still have a bit of breathing room. They've got plenty of time to get under the cap, and do not need to get anything back for Schneider. So, how are they screwed again?

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07-22-2008, 02:57 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
Um, what? Once they get rid of Schneider, they're looking at around $2.5 million in space. That's more than enough to sign Selanne and still have a bit of breathing room. They've got plenty of time to get under the cap, and do not need to get anything back for Schneider. So, how are they screwed again?
Ok let me put it to you this way. How many teams can fit Schneiders salary under their cap AND can use his services? To get his salary to fit on another team Burke may need to unload at least one more player to get the deal to work on another team. You have to look at the teams on the other end of the deal when posting something like this. The amounts of teams that can fit him under their caps without ruining their teams is pretty small.

The days of one for one high salary trading went out the window with the new CBA.

$2.5 Million is not a lot of room under the cap.

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07-22-2008, 03:03 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
Can you realistically say that Burke's draft record in Anaheim is poor? The guy has drafted tons of NHL prospects such as Mark Mitera, Matt Beleskey, Logan MacMillan, Eric Tangradi, Jake Gardiner, Nicolas Deschamps, Eric O'Dell and others. I'd say he's done a fantastic job of drafting.
Uhh, three of the players on that list were drafted just this year and one other had the worst season of his major junior career in 2007-08. I think it's a wee bit early to be calling those 'fantastic' picks.

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07-22-2008, 03:14 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
How many teams can fit Schneiders salary under their cap AND can use his services?
Teams that can fit him in:

Atlanta
Buffalo
Carolina
Colorado
Columbus
Florida
Los Angeles
Minnesota
Montreal
Nashville
NY Islanders
Ottawa
Phoenix
Tampa Bay
Toronto
Vancouver

Minny, Montreal, Toronto, Tampa, and Carolina would all have under $2M in space if they didn't move any salary back to Anaheim.

Can't answer the second part of your question, though.

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07-22-2008, 03:20 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Uhh, three of the players on that list were drafted just this year and one other had the worst season of his major junior career in 2007-08. I think it's a wee bit early to be calling those 'fantastic' picks.
So me calling those guys good picks isn't allowed, but calling Bobby Ryan a bust is?

And, I just said he's done a good job of adding quality potential NHLers. Time will tell how well he did, but right now I definitely approve of the drafting done by this team.

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07-22-2008, 03:21 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Danny View Post
Teams that can fit him in:

Atlanta
Buffalo
Carolina
Colorado
Columbus
Florida
Los Angeles
Minnesota
Montreal
Nashville
NY Islanders
Ottawa
Phoenix
Tampa Bay
Toronto
Vancouver

Minny, Montreal, Toronto, Tampa, and Carolina would all have under $2M in space if they didn't move any salary back to Anaheim.
Vancouver is leaving cap space open for Sundin. Of that list, how many teams still have roster space to fill?

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Can't answer the second part of your question, though.
LOL well played.

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07-22-2008, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Ok let me put it to you this way. How many teams can fit Schneiders salary under their cap AND can use his services? To get his salary to fit on another team Burke may need to unload at least one more player to get the deal to work on another team. You have to look at the teams on the other end of the deal when posting something like this. The amounts of teams that can fit him under their caps without ruining their teams is pretty small.

The days of one for one high salary trading went out the window with the new CBA.

$2.5 Million is not a lot of room under the cap.
Many teams can fit his salary, and many teams can also use a veteran, top-pairing defenseman. One prime example is Atlanta, who need to reach the floor yet. LA also needs to reach the floor. If Burke intends to get rid of Schneider, he can easily do it.

And how isn't $2.5 more than enough room for the Ducks? I could understand if they still needed to add pieces, but their team is complete, with or without Schneider.

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07-22-2008, 03:33 AM
  #71
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The way McLovin keeps grasping at straws to defend Burkie you'd think he counts against the Ducks' cap too.

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07-22-2008, 03:34 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
Many teams can fit his salary, and many teams can also use a veteran, top-pairing defenseman. One prime example is Atlanta, who need to reach the floor yet. LA also needs to reach the floor. If Burke intends to get rid of Schneider, he can easily do it.
Atlanta would be a good fit as no one wants to play there due to the lack of solid ownership and a competent GM. LA still have players to sign.

BUT...

My whole point is that making deals in the 'New NHL' is not as easy as you think. The new CBA threw so many different variables into the mix that you simply can't call up an Opposing teams anymore and make a 1 for 1 trade.

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And how isn't $2.5 more than enough room for the Ducks? I could understand if they still needed to add pieces, but their team is complete, with or without Schneider
Here's a hypothetical scenario. Let's say that Morrison got injured during the season and the Ducks brought in a player that made 3.5 million. The Ducks could make a cap exception for the duration of Morrison's injury and go over cap. However, when Morrison comes back the Ducks have to get back under cap. That means yet another salary dump.

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Originally Posted by Fishy Scales View Post
The way McLovin keeps grasping at straws to defend Burkie you'd think he counts against the Ducks' cap too.
I know. I'm just trying to get him to see things from a different perspective.

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07-22-2008, 03:40 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
So me calling those guys good picks isn't allowed, but calling Bobby Ryan a bust is?
Bobby Ryan- #2 overall, 2005
Jake Gardiner- #17, 2008
Nicolas Deschamps- #35, 2008
Eric O'Dell- #39, 2008

If you honestly can't see the difference between them, I can't help you.


Quote:
right now I definitely approve of the drafting done by this team.
A mind-blowing revelation.

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07-22-2008, 03:59 AM
  #74
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Anaheim has 14 UFAs next season, including all of their current defensemen except for Pronger?

Edit: just noticed they have $31.8M tied up next season and only eight players (five Fs, one D, two Gs) under contract.
i actually came to this thread specifically to post this, as i just noticed it at nhlnumbers.com about 5 minutes ago and thought of this thread

14 players as UFA after this upcoming season is simply crazy..... i looked at about half the leagues teams, and the average numebr of UFAs each team has for next year is around 6-7.... so anaheim has roughly *double* the UFAs as most other teams, yikes! now the difference between UFA and RFA isn't as great as it used to be, at least not for good players, but there is still a difference nonetheless.... burke could be in some serious, serious trouble next offseason.... but on the other hand hes gonna have quite a bit of cap room to work with, so its not all bad i suppose

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07-22-2008, 04:00 AM
  #75
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i actually came to this thread specifically to post this, as i just noticed it at nhlnumbers.com about 5 minutes ago and thought of this thread

14 players as UFA after this upcoming season is simply crazy..... i looked at about half the leagues teams, and the average numebr of UFAs each team has for next year is around 6-7.... so anaheim has roughly *double* the UFAs as most other teams, yikes! now the difference between UFA and RFA isn't as great as it used to be, at least not for good players, but there is still a difference nonetheless.... burke could be in some serious, serious trouble next offseason.... but on the other hand hes gonna have quite a bit of cap room to work with, so its not all bad i suppose
The Pens had just about that many this offseason.

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