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Sundin to Montreal Rumors and Discussion Part 8

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Old
07-23-2008, 08:47 AM
  #126
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sundin Part 8

this has more parts then the star trek movies or dallas.

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07-23-2008, 08:50 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I was laying in bed thinking that Vancouver may be the last team that has a shot at Sundin.

Here's what we know.

If it was all about money, he would've signed in Vancouver already.
- Vancouver's offer is the highest monetarily. This is what they have to offer above all teams. Sundin dismisses that the most money is what matters.
He's pretty sure he's not going to play in the Olympics
- Vancouver made some weird ploy about defending the gold medal for Sweden in Vancouver. I dunno how this makes sense, it seems like a stupid reason to me but Sundin goes out of his way to state that it's most likely he won't play for his country again.

So, Sundin has specifically sent out two big messages that Vancouver's offer and ploys, the big two, have no affect on his decision on where to play.
I believe that Sundin just want to give no indication whatsoever as far as where he's going. So everytime somebody bring him an argument that should be decisive, he turns it down.....but then still praises the team that did it.

There was NEVER a question about Montreal so far. How about a freakin radio station in Montreal ask Barry about Montreal? How about asking him what he thought about the fact that Gainey and Co had that window to sign him? How about we know what Sundin thinks about the way Gainey handle the situation?

Of course, if he does hesitate between the 3 offers, he cannot say that money is important 'cause he would've signed already. Doesn't mean that it's not that important but he needs some time to take EVERYTHING into consideration. Money might still be on top and when he'll discover the other advantages of playing in Vancouver, he'll go there but won't forget to say in the press conference that while the money is there, Vancouver offers a lot more....

As far as Toronto is concerned, it seems more likely that he'll go back there anyway. He says way too much about that organization for not going back there. Who freakin cares about Nieuwendyk.....only a guy who's looking for any positive reason will....

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07-23-2008, 08:51 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I believe that Sundin just want to give no indication whatsoever as far as where he's going. So everytime somebody bring him an argument that should be decisive, he turns it down.....but then still praises the team that did it.

There was NEVER a question about Montreal so far. How about a freakin radio station in Montreal ask Barry about Montreal? How about asking him what he thought about the fact that Gainey and Co had that window to sign him? How about we know what Sundin thinks about the way Gainey handle the situation?

Of course, if he does hesitate between the 3 offers, he cannot say that money is important 'cause he would've signed already. Doesn't mean that it's not that important but he needs some time to take EVERYTHING into consideration. Money might still be on top and when he'll discover the other advantages of playing in Vancouver, he'll go there but won't forget to say in the press conference that while the money is there, Vancouver offers a lot more....

As far as Toronto is concerned, it seems more likely that he'll go back there anyway. He says way too much about that organization for not going back there. Who freakin cares about Nieuwendyk.....only a guy who's looking for any positive reason will....
I'm leaning towards the fact he's going to Toronto too. I just think that Vancouver has even less steam than their fans think. Even though I think he's signing in Toronto, I'm going to continue pissing off Canucks fans because it's simply hilarious.

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07-23-2008, 08:51 AM
  #129
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I'm going to have a lot of fun with Gillis if Sundin signs with the Leafs or Habs, a lot of fun. What a tit. Just setting himself up for a bigger fall if Sundin doesn't come, even their GM reads way too much into an article that said very little!

It would seem this noob arrogance from Gillis has trickled down to his front office, and in some sort of girlish glee they went around gossiping and bragging to people(ie. HankyFF) that Sundin was "signed, sealed and delivered to Vancouver".

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07-23-2008, 08:52 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
I'm going to have a lot of fun with Gillis if Sundin signs with the Leafs or Habs. What a tit. Just setting himself up for a bigger fall if Sundin doesn't come, even Gillis read way too much into an article that said very little!
Rookie GM making Rookie mistakes. I'm going to enjoy seeing the conclusion of this even if we don't get Sundin.

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07-23-2008, 08:57 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Gillis just never stops talking, does he?

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...90b77feeb5&p=1

Here's to a certain thing called karma taking effect right about now.
I do believe that while he shouldn't voice it that much, I believe that he's saying to Mats exactly what he wants to hear. How good he is, how important he is to the team, the role he's going to play and so on.....While I don't believe that Gainey would go that far, probably letting Sundin alone and waiting for his decision, it is possible that Gillis is so annoying that Sundin will start by believing what he's saying....

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07-23-2008, 08:59 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I do believe that while he shouldn't voice it that much, I believe that he's saying to Mats exactly what he wants to hear. How good he is, how important he is to the team, the role he's going to play and so on.....While I don't believe that Gainey would go that far, probably letting Sundin alone and waiting for his decision, it is possible that Gillis is so annoying that Sundin will start by believing what he's saying....
I think it'll have the opposite effect. Sundin's been taking his time to reflect silently. He's waiting on making a decision to keep things as quiet as possible while he gets married. He went on a fishing trip to get away from it all. I think Gainey's silent attitude to the media is better. I'm sure Gainey is and has notified Sundin on what's going on with the team, what an important cog he'd be.

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07-23-2008, 09:00 AM
  #133
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I may be way off on this, but I think Sundin is just talking nice about Toronto for PR reasons and to avoid a media frenzy ruining his summer. The team is still a mess, they have moved players in and out, but they are no more a playoff team than last year. I'm not sure how good a sales pitch it is to tell a guy "if you return you can help us maybe sneak into the playoffs". Even if they were going in the right direction, they are 3-4 years away from contending.

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07-23-2008, 09:06 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I do believe that while he shouldn't voice it that much, I believe that he's saying to Mats exactly what he wants to hear. How good he is, how important he is to the team, the role he's going to play and so on.....While I don't believe that Gainey would go that far, probably letting Sundin alone and waiting for his decision, it is possible that Gillis is so annoying that Sundin will start by believing what he's saying....
Sundin is the slow, silent thinking type, just like Gainey. I doubt he gets influenced by small talk in an article online. I think he would respect Gainey's approach much more.

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07-23-2008, 09:14 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I think it'll have the opposite effect. Sundin's been taking his time to reflect silently. He's waiting on making a decision to keep things as quiet as possible while he gets married. He went on a fishing trip to get away from it all. I think Gainey's silent attitude to the media is better. I'm sure Gainey is and has notified Sundin on what's going on with the team, what an important cog he'd be.
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
Sundin is the slow, silent thinking type, just like Gainey. I doubt he gets influenced by small talk in an article online. I think he would respect Gainey's approach much more.
I'm not saying that Gillis media approach is what Sundin likes, on the contrary. But I believe that what Gillis says in the medias, he says that also to Sundin and his agent personnally and while Sundin might have loved to not see or hear it through the newspapers, I believe that the essence of what he's looking for as far as his role in a team, is exactly what Gillis says. Now, will it pisses Sundin off to read it everyday in the newspapers?

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07-23-2008, 09:24 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If Detroit wanted him, I guess Detroit thought that they would need Sundin as well, but Sundin and Co said that they thought they didn't need him....

Now even if Montreal want him, Sundin would say...."Well you went 1st overall last year, you don't need me". He would have to share the spotlight with Saku, Kovy, Tanguay.....

He might still go back to Toronto, but Montreal is out of the equation, in my opinion.
For sure you'll have that opinion if you actually ignore that he said that he "wants to be integral part of helping a team go over the top in terms of winning"

Which is exactly what he would be in Montreal, and sorry but the spotlight is big in Montreal and he would be "one of the top players on the team" as only he and Kovalev are at this level.

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07-23-2008, 09:34 AM
  #137
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http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/256218.html

Sundin to decide if he retires or not on the 1st of August.

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07-23-2008, 09:45 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/256218.html

Sundin to decide if he retires or not on the 1st of August.
I can't read French that well, does it for sure say "on the 1st of August" or "by the 1st of August"?

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07-23-2008, 09:47 AM
  #139
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I can't read French that well, does it for sure say "on the 1st of August" or "by the 1st of August"?
on...

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07-23-2008, 09:48 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
For sure you'll have that opinion if you actually ignore that he said that he "wants to be integral part of helping a team go over the top in terms of winning"

Which is exactly what he would be in Montreal, and sorry but the spotlight is big in Montreal and he would be "one of the top players on the team" as only he and Kovalev are at this level.
So why wouldn't he want to be an integral part of helping Detroit go over the top in terms of winning? Is it because Detroit won the Cup last year that they'll automatically going to win it this year? He would've certainly helped them keeping the Cup if he would've signed there. Thing is he would not have been the MAIN PART as it was said by his agent yesterday.

Chances are he'll be, with Luongo, the main part of that offense in Vancouver. And he'll be, of course, the main part. And why wasn't there any mention of winning the cup? We talked about winning, well the 8th seed most likely will have a winning record and might surprise in the playoffs. He likes, or seemed to like the direction that Toronto is making, for whatever reason, and he could be the MAIN PART of a surprising playoffs team....

Sure the spotlight is big in Montreal. But as big as it is, it wil be divided between Price, Saku, Kovy, Tanguay and even Laraque for all the other reasons....in TO, the spotlight is still pretty big and it will be directed at.....Sundin who's the hero for coming back and not letting his team down and is the reason for a surprising comeback and playoff team that is Toronto....or with Luongo, will be THE guy who would change Vancouver's offense and by some kind of miracle will turn Bernier or any other guy into something they weren't able to do elsewhere. Sedin's are fine, but they won't have any share of the spotlight with Sundin on.

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07-23-2008, 09:51 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Can we summarize the interview with Bary and how it breaks down?

Wants to be the Go To guy - Advantage Vancouver and Toronto.
Wants to be one of the top players on the team - Advantage all three.
Wants to be integral part of helping a team go over the top in terms of winning - Advantage Montreal.
It's not about money - advantage Toronto and Montreal.Trying to come to terms with disapointments in Toronto (sounds like he is doing his best to forget what has transpired with former wife before moving on to next one) - Advantage Montreal and Vancouver.

Count...

Vancouver - 3
Montreal - 4
Toronto - 3

What else?
Sundin said it's not ALL about money, but it was one part of the equation. It seems kind of silly to think Toronto/Montreal have an advantage because their offers were lower..

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07-23-2008, 09:54 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/256218.html

Sundin to decide if he retires or not on the 1st of August.
I guess he is only going to say " I'll play! But you don't know with who... " and then take another month to decide with who.

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07-23-2008, 09:56 AM
  #143
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8 Days To Go!!!

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07-23-2008, 10:32 AM
  #144
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8 Days To Go!!!
We should be at thread 12 by then...what an explosion on these boards on August 1st...gonna be nuts!

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07-23-2008, 10:37 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Gillis just never stops talking, does he?

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...90b77feeb5&p=1

Here's to a certain thing called karma taking effect right about now.
"Barry took exception with Gillis's view that Sundin has narrowed his choices to Toronto or Vancouver if he decides to play on."

Keep it up Gillis. Piss the agent off.

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07-23-2008, 10:37 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
So why wouldn't he want to be an integral part of helping Detroit go over the top in terms of winning? Is it because Detroit won the Cup last year that they'll automatically going to win it this year? He would've certainly helped them keeping the Cup if he would've signed there. Thing is he would not have been the MAIN PART as it was said by his agent yesterday.
You do understand what he said, right? He wouldn't be an integral part of helping Detroit go over the top in terms winning because they've already done that. Is that too hard to understand? It shows exactly the difference between choosing either Montreal or Vancouver over Detroit.

Quote:
Chances are he'll be, with Luongo, the main part of that offense in Vancouver. And he'll be, of course, the main part.
Luongo and Sundin, or Kovalev and Sundin, it's the same thing, he would still be part of the top players of the team. It seems you're trying to find any excuse to keep that belief that he won't sign in Montreal. I believe the possbilities are quite open for any of Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. Nothing indicates he will rather chose Vancouver over Montreal.

Quote:
And why wasn't there any mention of winning the cup?
Going over the top in terms of winning doesn't include being a contender and wanting the cup?

Quote:
We talked about winning, well the 8th seed most likely will have a winning record and might surprise in the playoffs. He likes, or seemed to like the direction that Toronto is making, for whatever reason, and he could be the MAIN PART of a surprising playoffs team....
No, that wouldn't fit with his assertion of wanting to be an integral part of helping a team go over the top in terms of winning.

Quote:
Sure the spotlight is big in Montreal. But as big as it is, it wil be divided between Price, Saku, Kovy, Tanguay and even Laraque for all the other reasons....in TO, the spotlight is still pretty big and it will be directed at.....Sundin who's the hero for coming back and not letting his team down and is the reason for a surprising comeback and playoff team that is Toronto....
Where did Sundin say he would prefer the spotlight of TO to Montreal.. You can predict that Price, Koivu, Tanguay and Laraque will have a bigger spotlight on them, when in fact, Sundin is the first big UFA signing by Montreal in over two decades???

You read too much into and presume too much. You've created a paradigm in your own mind of what he wants, extrapolated his comments to include things and exclude others that he hasn't even mentioned. You play with degrees of varaibles that he hasn't spoken of. If he says he wants to help a team go over the top in winning and be an integral part of that, that makes Montreal as much in the run as the other teams, or even more so.

Quote:
or with Luongo, will be THE guy who would change Vancouver's offense and by some kind of miracle will turn Bernier or any other guy into something they weren't able to do elsewhere. Sedin's are fine, but they won't have any share of the spotlight with Sundin on.
Yeah, don't include Ohlund, the two Sedins, and Demitra... so this way you can keep thinking the spotlight will only be on him and Luongo. You do realize that the two Sedins are almost both PPG players and they should attract the spotlight as much or even more so than Price, Tanguay or Laraque.


Last edited by Ozymandias: 07-23-2008 at 10:53 AM.
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07-23-2008, 10:45 AM
  #147
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"Barry took exception with Gillis's view that Sundin has narrowed his choices to Toronto or Vancouver if he decides to play on."

Keep it up Gillis. Piss the agent off.
i think the agent would prefer VAN over any other teams.. for obvious monetary reasons. It's an extra ~500k for him over the Mtl offer.

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07-23-2008, 10:46 AM
  #148
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So why wouldn't he want to be an integral part of helping Detroit go over the top in terms of winning? Is it because Detroit won the Cup last year that they'll automatically going to win it this year?
mmmm.... yeah...

Not automatically, since nothing is 100% sure, but they are the huge favourites, especially after signing the best UFA available, Marian Hossa



Bob Gainey pick-up the phone, what's the first thing he says to Sundin? "We traded for you right because we need a big elite center to put us over the top"

Sundin one month later: "I want to go to a team that I put over the the top" (Which is only one of the many criteria by the way....)

Toronto goes from Tavares contention to playoffs contention.
Vancouver goes from playoffs contention to playoffs lock.


Anyway, I think he'll sign in Toronto too. Börje Salming sealed the deal when he told Sundin "the thing I regret the most was not ending my career in Toronto". But then again, Salming was drafted by TO, Sundin was not....

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07-23-2008, 10:47 AM
  #149
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i think the agent would prefer VAN over any other teams.. for obvious monetary reasons. It's an extra ~500k for him over the Mtl offer.
Thank god Sundin is the one making the final decision, no?

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07-23-2008, 10:48 AM
  #150
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i think the agent would prefer VAN over any other teams.. for obvious monetary reasons. It's an extra ~500k for him over the Mtl offer.
Hmmmm.....agreed.

However, if it's simply not true that Sundin has narrowed his choices to T.O. and Van, then Gillis has no business saying it, and it will ruffle someone's feathers.

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