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Sundin to Montreal Rumors and Discussion Part 8

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Old
07-23-2008, 12:50 PM
  #176
417
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Wow, even when you're not bashing Ryder I think you're still out to lunch!
1. Super-star in every sense of the word. How many more power forwards/centers can do what he does - let alone on a CRAPPY line with CRAPPY linemates and a CRAPPY team??

2. Put Sundin with some real talent like what the Habs have, and he could be a 100 point guy. Would likely surpass Kovalev simply because of his consistancy.

3. Agreed, Sundin is what we need. Glad you at least got this one right.
Bashing Ryder? When have I ever bashed Ryder? i'm confused

as for the rest of your post...I have trouble considering a guy who hasn't played in a playoff game in 4 years, hasn't surpassed 80pts in 6 years, a superstar...

Sorry, I can't buy that argument...that doesn't mean I don't think Mats Sundin is a wonderful player or that he wouldn't be a incredible fit on a team like Montreal, it's just that I think he gets way more credit than he actually deserves

You can give me the argument that he had no one to play with, but I can counter that a true superstar makes the players around him better, and while he was able to do that and get his teams in the playoffs 4 or 5 years ago, it hasn't been the case since the lockout ended.

Again, i'm not bashing Sundin...I just think i'm being realistic. You're putting this guy in the class of Thornton or Iginla or Crosby or Lecavalier. He's not near those guys in terms of talent or impact. That's not a slight, it's just the way it is.

Sundin has a unique opportunity IMO, to come to a team like Montreal where he'll be the missing piece to the puzzle, in that scenario, he fits perfectly.

However, Vancouver is lining up to pay this guy 10M (as the highest paid player in the NHL which is another joke IMO) to feature as THE MAN, when I dont think he can carry that responsibility

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Old
07-23-2008, 12:51 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You forgot something......Hossa signs next year....WE WIN THE CUP AGAIN!
Well duh!

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Old
07-23-2008, 12:55 PM
  #178
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I have to say that Gillis is really lacking some profesionalism in all this....going around and spewing remarks that can only alienate a player and his agent is not the best thing to do.

It seems like he's already allienated Barry by saying its a two team race, which Barry has flatly denied.

Eventually he'll put his foot in his mouth if he hasn't already with that statement because now Barry has to call the Gms of the other teams involved to deny that rumor just like the Vancouver rumor on the weekend.

If this guy proceeds this way in these negotations it isn't a good reflection on his approach of being a GM and that could be a turn off for a player.

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Old
07-23-2008, 12:55 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
I'm curious to know your assessment for Sundin.
1. Do you consider him as a Super Star ?
2. How is he compared to Kovalev ? Better, equal or worse ?
3. Do you choose Sundin at $7M/year or Selanne at $5M/year ?

In my opinion:
1. Not Super Star
2. Slightly worse than Kovalev
3. Sundin

How about you ?
1. Star, not quite 'super'
2. Equal right now to last year's Kovalev. It remains to be seen if Kovy finally has matured into the player he can be, but we'll see.
3. Selanne, coz I'm from Winnipeg !

But I should say I *like* Kovalev more than Sundin. He's one of my favorite Habs and like I said in the other thread, he's the Mack Daddy of Russia, a real original. If they can ever get rid of Putin I expect AK27 to be the next President. He'd make a great leader for the Rodina-mat.

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Old
07-23-2008, 12:57 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Bashing Ryder? When have I ever bashed Ryder? i'm confused

as for the rest of your post...I have trouble considering a guy who hasn't played in a playoff game in 4 years, hasn't surpassed 80pts in 6 years, a superstar...

Sorry, I can't buy that argument...that doesn't mean I don't think Mats Sundin is a wonderful player or that he wouldn't be a incredible fit on a team like Montreal, it's just that I think he gets way more credit than he actually deserves

You can give me the argument that he had no one to play with, but I can counter that a true superstar makes the players around him better, and while he was able to do that and get his teams in the playoffs 4 or 5 years ago, it hasn't been the case since the lockout ended.

Again, i'm not bashing Sundin...I just think i'm being realistic. You're putting this guy in the class of Thornton or Iginla or Crosby or Lecavalier. He's not near those guys in terms of talent or impact. That's not a slight, it's just the way it is.

Sundin has a unique opportunity IMO, to come to a team like Montreal where he'll be the missing piece to the puzzle, in that scenario, he fits perfectly.

However, Vancouver is lining up to pay this guy 10M (as the highest paid player in the NHL which is another joke IMO) to feature as THE MAN, when I dont think he can carry that responsibility
Very, very good post. Of course, it means I allready agree with everything, which makes me biaised, I guess...

To me, that's the whole story :

Sundin is a damn good centerman with size that isn't good enough anymore to carry a team on his shoulder. That makes Montreal the perfect fit : a team full of young and energetic offensive talent, with two vets with talent (Koivu and Kovy) that can share the load, but that is missing, guess what : a damn good centerman with size.

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:02 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by couz View Post
I have to say that Gillis is really lacking some profesionalism in all this....going around and spewing remarks that can only alienate a player and his agent is not the best thing to do.

It seems like he's already allienated Barry by saying its a two team race, which Barry has flatly denied.

Eventually he'll put his foot in his mouth if he hasn't already with that statement because now Barry has to call the Gms of the other teams involved to deny that rumor just like the Vancouver rumor on the weekend.

If this guy proceeds this way in these negotations it isn't a good reflection on his approach of being a GM and that could be a turn off for a player.
Like someone said earlier, that "it's between us and Toronto now" is pretty dumb....But I also think that some things Kevin Lowe said weren't that brillant and same for Burke.....so I guess it's becoming somewhat of a trend to see stupid things said by GM and it shouldn't be an impact over a player's decision.

But if I was Sundin, I would really begin to be annoyed 'cause it does put pressure on him 'cause either his agent or himself always have to come and respond to allegations....

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07-23-2008, 01:08 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
sundin Part 8

this has more parts then the star trek movies or dallas.

Start trek is putting out number 11 on May 8th 2009

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:09 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Bronto Dan View Post
Start trek is putting out number 11 on May 8th 2009
Nerd alert! Nerd alert!

Look everybody!

Nerd alert!


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Old
07-23-2008, 01:10 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Nerd alert! Nerd alert!

Look everybody!

Nerd alert!

...loading...

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07-23-2008, 01:10 PM
  #185
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The thing is that quite often the GM is a reflection of how well an organization is run and wether it succeeds.

Gainey radiates success, composure, profesionalism and winning.

Gillis, simply doesn't because he's new.

If there's one thing that has always come out of Sundin or his agent concerning Montreal when Montreal was mentioned was how impressed they both were with Gainey's approach and discussions....especially early when Montreal was getting the press.

Lately Montreal hasn't been getting as much press as Vancouver but all I hear about Vancouver is how great the offer was money wise, not much else.

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:12 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Wow, even when you're not bashing Ryder I think you're still out to lunch!

1. Super-star in every sense of the word. How many more power forwards/centers can do what he does - let alone on a CRAPPY line with CRAPPY linemates and a CRAPPY team??
2. Put Sundin with some real talent like what the Habs have, and he could be a 100 point guy. Would likely surpass Kovalev simply because of his consistancy.

3. Agreed, Sundin is what we need. Glad you at least got this one right.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000432004.html

That was the year Iginla and the Flames went the the Finals...THAT'S a superstar. Look at the team that Iginla had

He finished 1st in scoring for the Flames with 73pts...the next closest players were Craig Conroy (with 8 goals and 47pts ) followed by Shean Donovan (42pts) and Martin Gélinas (35pts). He was also nominated for the Hart trophy that year.

Jarom Iginla is a superstar, you could put that guy on an AHL team, and they could challenge for a playoff spot. I don't think the same can be said for Sundin...and again, thats no slight to him, more of an hommage to Iginla and the players of his ilk

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:25 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Nerd alert! Nerd alert!

Look everybody!

Nerd alert!



I know what can I say...

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:28 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Bronto Dan View Post


I know what can I say...
It's ok Bronto Dan. We still welcome you to the board. Enjoy!



















*cough* nerd *cough*




Edit: what the? You joined in 2006 and have 18 posts?

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:30 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
1. I think he's somewhere between ''star'' and ''superstar''
I'll propose a new category: sub-par superstar.

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:31 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Wow, even when you're not bashing Ryder I think you're still out to lunch!

1. Super-star in every sense of the word. How many more power forwards/centers can do what he does - let alone on a CRAPPY line with CRAPPY linemates and a CRAPPY team??

2. Put Sundin with some real talent like what the Habs have, and he could be a 100 point guy. Would likely surpass Kovalev simply because of his consistancy.

3. Agreed, Sundin is what we need. Glad you at least got this one right.
Sundin would be a great fit, but on the Habs he'd get 80-85 points tops. Carbo usually plays 3-4 lines so he wouldn't get the 23-24 minutes that guys like Lecavalier does...plus he is not the player he was 5-7 years ago. He's still very good and would fill a big need...but he's not a superstar, he's not Crosby or Vinny or Malkin.

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:32 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
It's ok Bronto Dan. We still welcome you to the board. Enjoy!



















*cough* nerd *cough*




Edit: what the? You joined in 2006 and have 18 posts?
read a lot, don't post a lot...

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:33 PM
  #192
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Sundin will surprise everyone and sign a one year deal with Buffalo.

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:33 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mont Royale View Post
I'll propose a new category: sub-par superstar.
Star+ is a more positive way to look at things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronto Dan View Post
read a lot, don't post a lot...
Peeping toms


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-23-2008 at 02:34 PM.
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Old
07-23-2008, 01:36 PM
  #194
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Sundin will surprise everyone and sign a one year deal with Buffalo.
make that Nashville...

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07-23-2008, 01:36 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Sundin will surprise everyone and sign a one year deal with Buffalo.
then will find out Sundins favorite player is Craig RIVET

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:37 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Star+ is a more positive way to look at things.
I suppose, but it doesn't rhyme.

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07-23-2008, 01:37 PM
  #197
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Peeping toms
Takes one to know one, Mr In-the-closet-or-under-the-bed...

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:38 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Bronto Dan View Post
read a lot, don't post a lot...

...Double nerd alert!

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:39 PM
  #199
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Sundin will surprise everyone and sign a one year deal with Buffalo.
It wouldn't surprise me that much. There is always an outsider.

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Old
07-23-2008, 01:45 PM
  #200
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I think that the Vancouver Canucks are approaching this situation in a very juvenile manner. They lack class and professionalism, which is something the Canadiens organization has in abundance. Gainey, on the other hand, has probably pitched the merits of the Habs in his usual persuasive ways and has allowed Sundin the space and time needed to come to a decision without making this a media spectacle like in Vancouver. To me, the latter team is using this situation as a way to keep the Canucks in the spotlight because season tickets sales would go down with the team that they have now. And, Sundin may be using the Canucks offer as a way to get more form the team he wants to go to.

U can also look at Sundin's indecisiveness as a hint that he may have already made a decision. Perhaps he has decided to head to Montreal but had to take this long to make it appear as though it was a very difficult decision. Sundin would only be a traitor if the Leafs and Habs were in the same position. That is not the case as both teams are heading in opposite directions, one to the basement in the East while the other will be battling for the Conference title.

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