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Old
08-05-2008, 11:21 PM
  #51
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Why's is everyone overrating Yemelin and Valatenko?
'Cause most people have a lot of faith in Timmins and Co who keeps praising them. Timmins had great words for Emelin and then talked about Valentenko as "a Emelin with a better shot".....pretty hard to not be excited.

On personal level, after seeing Emelin play at the Worlds Juniors and Valentenko at the AHL level, it is pretty obvious that both of these kids have a serious skillset. How it will be developed that's another story especially in Emelin's case. 'Cause while people keep saying how it doesn't matter that he stays in Russia, that the level of play is really good down there, same people should acknowledge that the guy has all the trouble in the world to get some significant playing time and that will most likely affect his development.

Having said that, put him on the spot with Hamilton and it wouldn't be long to see him making a difference in that squad. Valentenko made some tremendous progress as the year passed by. Same could be said for Emelin if he ever comes....


Last edited by Whitesnake: 08-06-2008 at 08:38 AM.
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Old
08-06-2008, 12:07 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I am very up on Gorges. He has grown a lot.
Gainey too because he gave him 3.3M and 2.825M to OBy.

Global picture is the following. Komi is next year.
Markov, Hamerlik, Gorges and O'Byrne all finish in 2010-11.
Then in 2009-10 Korneev, Yemelin, McDonagh, Suban and Fisher are all going to be in the pipeline. I can see two or three in our roster.

Who are you going to keep?
For now, I think O'Byrne is better than Gorges but we have another almost two years to evaluate.

I think we will sign Komisarek for two or three years.
We will have to choose between Hammer and Markov.
Then we may have to choose between OBY and Gorges.

There is also Carle but for me he is a wild card. I don't know how to position him. He presents stats a little bit better than O'Byrne but Valentenko seems higher in most of the people mind (probably because of his spectacular mid-ice hits).
BTW, Valentenko: 1.9% scoring (1 goal in 54 shots) so I guess he won't replace Streit of Brisebois... OBY is 11.1 % in AHL while carle is 9.9% (quite similar).

But what I have seen of Gorges in the playoffs was totally out of any expectations I had wih him. So we will have to see.
As I expect 200 Hits, 150 Blocked shots and 20 points from O'Byrne... Well the choice seems obvious NOW. Let's wait a year.
The choice will be easy .

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Old
08-06-2008, 12:12 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I am very up on Gorges. He has grown a lot.
Gainey too because he gave him 3.3M and 2.825M to OBy.
.
.
.

There is also Carle but for me he is a wild card. I don't know how to position him. He presents stats a little bit better than O'Byrne but Valentenko seems higher in most of the people mind (probably because of his spectacular mid-ice hits).
BTW, Valentenko: 1.9% scoring (1 goal in 54 shots) so I guess he won't replace Streit of Brisebois... OBY is 11.1 % in AHL while carle is 9.9% (quite similar).
.
.
Gorges has more NHL experience, so he gets more money. Does not imply better or more upside. I like Gorges as a 5th or 6th D, but I don't see a physical or offensive game. O'Byrne may not score but he should start hitting this season.

Valentenko did not put up offensive numbers in Hamilton but he has a hard shot. Scored some goals in the world juniors.

Carle may be ready, Valentenko may be ready, best case training camp produces tough decisions and no one goes back to Russia. I could see Carle taking Streit's PP role by the end of the season. I really hope Valentenko is in the NHL by the end of the season (without dumping any top 4 D). Gainey said he would not start the season in the NHL this year, but then he wanted Max Pac in college, too, I think.

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Old
08-06-2008, 01:15 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
The point was that in the post I had quoted originaly someone had Bell as a 7th D and no O'byrne in the lineup.
i understood the point and i quoted natey to voice my agreement , i guess i agree with you by association . either way belle is vastly over rated by more than a few people on this board who don't realize that once you get past his size and skating ability there isn't much left to like about him as a hockey player .

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08-06-2008, 07:57 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
he'll never go to hamilton. He can stay in russia and make a comfortable living his entire career. Having that in his back pocket, I think he can negotiate a 1 way contract in the NHL
He can't do that, he has to sign a 2 way contract if he comes over next summer as he'll be 23 and still under the rookie contract rules. But he'll only get a one year deal due to his age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Why's is everyone overrating Yemelin and Valatenko?
Emelin had a down year from what I've heard so I will wait and see what happens to him this year. I really like what I've seen from him when he was with Lada, haven't seen him with AK Bars though.

Valentenko though I really like and can't wait to see him with the Habs. I hope he gets some games in this year and I could see him as a regular in 2 years if all goes well for him. There's a lot to like about him imo, he's got a good frame, he's very physical, solid in his own end, skates well, moves the puck well has a cannon of a shot.

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08-06-2008, 09:17 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
he'll never go to hamilton. He can stay in russia and make a comfortable living his entire career. Having that in his back pocket, I think he can negotiate a 1 way contract in the NHL

Agreed. Kinda like Streit, who came here and never played in the AHL, wether by prior agreement with the Habs or because he was that good. I can't see why the same couldn't happen with Yemelin, though I've never seen him play.

Edit : Montreal's post : he'd have to have a 2 way contract, but he could still make the team on his first try.

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08-06-2008, 09:29 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I am very up on Gorges. He has grown a lot.
Gainey too because he gave him 3.3M and 2.825M to OBy.

Global picture is the following. Komi is next year.
Markov, Hamerlik, Gorges and O'Byrne all finish in 2010-11.
Then in 2009-10 Korneev, Yemelin, McDonagh, Suban and Fisher are all going to be in the pipeline. I can see two or three in our roster.

Who are you going to keep?
For now, I think O'Byrne is better than Gorges but we have another almost two years to evaluate.

I think we will sign Komisarek for two or three years.
We will have to choose between Hammer and Markov.
Then we may have to choose between OBY and Gorges.

There is also Carle but for me he is a wild card. I don't know how to position him. He presents stats a little bit better than O'Byrne but Valentenko seems higher in most of the people mind (probably because of his spectacular mid-ice hits).
BTW, Valentenko: 1.9% scoring (1 goal in 54 shots) so I guess he won't replace Streit of Brisebois... OBY is 11.1 % in AHL while carle is 9.9% (quite similar).

But what I have seen of Gorges in the playoffs was totally out of any expectations I had wih him. So we will have to see.
As I expect 200 Hits, 150 Blocked shots and 20 points from O'Byrne... Well the choice seems obvious NOW. Let's wait a year.
I don't think we will have to chose between Gorges an OBY. I would like to make it clear and say that Gorges is the perfect #5D. shot % means almost nothing. Take Sourey for exemple, in the AHL life time has a 2.13%...looks more like the Tank. It's a mater of getting that big shot under control. And for what I ear it's a big one.
Streit for exemple could wirer the puck but it was not a booming shot.

Bouillon looks like the odd man in here. I'm not sure that he will be around for mutch longer. To bad, he has a great attitude and seems to be a good teammate.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 08-06-2008 at 11:59 PM.
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Old
08-06-2008, 09:38 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Why's is everyone overrating Yemelin and Valatenko?

Because they're finished overrating Grabovski & Perezhogin and need a new favour this year?

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08-06-2008, 09:49 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Why's is everyone overrating Yemelin and Valatenko?
How can you say someone is overrated when you have not even seen them play??

You can say Sundin or Malone is overrated...but it's impossible to say Yemelin is unless you watch RSL games.

...and it's Valentenko.

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08-06-2008, 08:10 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
He can't do that, he has to sign a 2 way contract if he comes over next summer as he'll be 23 and still under the rookie contract rules. But he'll only get a one year deal due to his age.



Emelin had a down year from what I've heard so I will wait and see what happens to him this year. I really like what I've seen from him when he was with Lada, haven't seen him with AK Bars though.

Valentenko though I really like and can't wait to see him with the Habs. I hope he gets some games in this year and I could see him as a regular in 2 years if all goes well for him. There's a lot to like about him imo, he's got a good frame, he's very physical, solid in his own end, skates well, moves the puck well has a cannon of a shot.

hmm, thanks for the correction, but it doesn't make me feel any better about his chances of coming over anytime soon.... it actually makes me feel worse. Maybe he can come to a "gentleman's agreement" though about not being sent down to the ahl

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08-07-2008, 12:01 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post
i understood the point and i quoted natey to voice my agreement , i guess i agree with you by association . either way belle is vastly over rated by more than a few people on this board who don't realize that once you get past his size and skating ability there isn't much left to like about him as a hockey player .
The thing with Belle as the number 7 over a guy like Tank or Carle is that Belle has a lot more AHL experience than they do. Carle and Tank would greatly benefit from the development time in the AHL... while Belle has played that level and it may be a greater benefit to him to practice against NHLers than play with AHLers. Whereas Carle and Tank definetely need to play everyday.

Regardless I still think Breezy will be our #7.

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08-07-2008, 07:43 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
hmm, thanks for the correction, but it doesn't make me feel any better about his chances of coming over anytime soon.... it actually makes me feel worse. Maybe he can come to a "gentleman's agreement" though about not being sent down to the ahl
Yes they could put a clause in his contract saying if he doesn't make the NHL roster then he can go back to Russia, if that's something they wanted to do. Guess we'll see what happens with him next summer.

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08-07-2008, 07:46 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Again, with 1.9% (1 in 54) in AHL. Does he have a shot "A la Souray" (>100mph)? Because as far as precision, tough to get lower.
So if Yemelin is even lower...

Still 1.9%... Tough to get lower. Coté has less...
And what do you want to demonstrate here?
Just think this scenario: Valentenko gets iced in two Powerplays. He shoots twice from the blue line, doesn't score, but both times a forward quickly picks a rebound up and puts it in the back of the net.
Valentenko gets 0.0%, but his team gets two goals...

This is why you always need big shooters in your lineup, even if they don't score too much.

To get back on topic, I mostly agree on what russianprospects.com said. He didn't had too much of ice time last season, and hardly he will get more this year...

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08-07-2008, 09:29 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
And what do you want to demonstrate here?
Just think this scenario: Valentenko gets iced in two Powerplays. He shoots twice from the blue line, doesn't score, but both times a forward quickly picks a rebound up and puts it in the back of the net.
Valentenko gets 0.0%, but his team gets two goals...

This is why you always need big shooters in your lineup, even if they don't score too much.

To get back on topic, I mostly agree on what russianprospects.com said. He didn't had too much of ice time last season, and hardly he will get more this year...
Which is a bad thing for his development, but a good thing for us. Hopefully he'll get frustrated with being in the RSL and come over. High unlikely he makes the team out of camp, but might go to AHL, adjust and come up and play some injury call-up games, enough to have the incentive to keep him here. I'm really high on Emelin, I like his offensive upside, I like his meanness and I think he's got the kinda temper and unpredictability that this team has lacked for a while.

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Old
08-07-2008, 09:33 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Which is a bad thing for his development, but a good thing for us. Hopefully he'll get frustrated with being in the RSL and come over. High unlikely he makes the team out of camp, but might go to AHL, adjust and come up and play some injury call-up games, enough to have the incentive to keep him here. I'm really high on Emelin, I like his offensive upside, I like his meanness and I think he's got the kinda temper and unpredictability that this team has lacked for a while.
That's why I'm tired to see how Russia is so great for the development.....it is if he plays....We may have lower leagues levels here but at the very least, they see ice time.

I'm so unfortunately positive that this is what we'll see for Trunev....unless he comes obviously...

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