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Bouwmeester rejects multi-year deal

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:05 PM
  #76
Novak Djokovic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
If Homer does not trade Richards, Coburn, Carter and JVR (and maybe even Giroux) for Jay-Bo then he should make a deal.
Why do other fans expect to give their junk to Florida for a quality defenseman?

Is there anyone Philly can trade on defense? Probably Parent but he's unproven. On offense? Briere isn't getting traded.......so who?

Florida wants Carter + Parent for J-Bo, I would think.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:11 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
Why do other fans expect to give their junk to Florida for a quality defenseman?

Is there anyone Philly can trade on defense? Probably Parent but he's unproven. On offense? Briere isn't getting traded.......so who?

Florida wants Carter + Parent for J-Bo, I would think.
Junk? Lupul, Hartnell, Parent, Downie, Jones even Gagne. Most of the players I mentioned are all under contract. Flyers may offer some of these players. Yeah junk... Just another Sens fan running his mouth.

Yo.. Philly has nothing, thats why we made it to the conference finals and you didn't..


O yeah... answer this.. How much are Vermette + Meszaros maikng?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 07-25-2008 at 12:22 PM.
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07-25-2008, 12:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Still like from Dallas:

Boucher
Niskanen/Daley (their choice)
Lindgren (2nd line center prospect)
Lundqvist
Conditional pick if he re-signs
With us as close to the cap as we are both Boucher and Daley would have to be involved.

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07-25-2008, 12:13 PM
  #79
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A deal centred around Vermette+ Meszaros for Bouw may be most fair deal I have seen so far, along with the Kessel + Stuart deal.

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07-25-2008, 12:20 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Junk? Lupul, Hartnell, Parent, Downie, Jones even Gagne. Flyers may offer some of these players. Yeah junk...

Yo.. Philly has nothing, thats why we made it to the conference finals and you didn't..


O yeah... answer this.. How much are Vermette + Meszaros maikng?
I don't want those bolded players for Bouwmeester. [If I was Martin]

Gagne? Actually, I'll take a chance on him and Lupul is OK......

Carter goes to Florida if Philly wants J-Bo. That's all I'm saying.

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07-25-2008, 12:20 PM
  #81
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O'Byrne, Maxwell, Fischer, 1st in 09

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:21 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heaterhassasin View Post
A deal centred around Vermette+ Meszaros for Bouw may be most fair deal I have seen so far, along with the Kessel + Stuart deal.
Vermette + Meszaros > Kessel + Stuart

But still, those two are very good proposals.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:21 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
I don't want those bolded players for Bouwmeester. [If I was Martin]

Gagne? Actually, I'll take a chance on him and Lupul is OK......

Carter goes to Florida if Philly wants J-Bo. That's all I'm saying.
How often do teams get players like Carter back in a trade? Very, very rarely.

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07-25-2008, 12:21 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heaterhassasin View Post
A deal centred around Vermette+ Meszaros for Bouw may be most fair deal I have seen so far, along with the Kessel + Stuart deal.
I'd say Frolov for Bouwmeester straight up is just about dead even.

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07-25-2008, 12:22 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
O'Byrne, Maxwell, Fischer, 1st in 09
With that, Florida gets Hedman or Tavares in the draft.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:23 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
How often do teams get players like Carter back in a trade? Very, very rarely.
What do you mean?

How often do teams get a young defenseman with so much potential [already logging 30 minutes a night]?

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:25 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
I don't want those bolded players for Bouwmeester. [If I was Martin]

Gagne? Actually, I'll take a chance on him and Lupul is OK......

Carter goes to Florida if Philly wants J-Bo. That's all I'm saying.
You do not want? Who the hell are you? Lupul was a center player in Prongers trade and hie is just ok in your books? Well, what the hell did Vermette do playing for one of the strongest team in the East? WHat did Vermette do in playoffs? 8 points in 38 games? lol

Well if Florida is looking for someone like Carter Sens have nothing to offer. Got it?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 07-25-2008 at 12:31 PM.
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Old
07-25-2008, 12:25 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Open the bidding. The 29 GMs aren't negotiating with the Panthers in a vacuum. They're bidding against each other.
Actually, with it taken into account that he FOR SURE will not be traded inside the division you can cut out four other teams. When you take out the teams that are already in cap trouble you can take out about ten other teams. There you go. You've already cut the bidders in half without even getting to the "make an offer", stage of the talks.

Now how many of those 15 teams that are capable to make an offer will end up making one? How many of them actually want to give up what it's going to take to land Jay Bouwmeester?

Say 5 teams actually want to make a fair offer for Bouwmeester. That may even be an overstatement considering the way GM's have built their team and are actually happy with how it looks heading into the season which they almost always are.

Now you've got 5 teams in the bidding. Say three in the east and two in the west. Now you have to decide if the three offers in the east are worth trading him inside the conference or if you would take a slightly less impactful return for the safety of not having to play him 4 or 5 times per season. Once you decide that, there go half of your teams either way.

And this is how you dwindle 29 teams down to just a couple.

People that criticize trades in a fantasy point value are plain out to lunch. Nobody considers what GM's have to consider when they're trading a valuable player. It isn't just "player x + player y + draft pick = player a". The real equation would have so many variables it would be ridiculous.

People slammed the Jack Johnson and Oleg Tverdovsky for Tim Gleason and Eric Belanger trade under these same conditions. Carolina needed a team that could afford to dump salary, had a young defenseman they thought could play big time minutes as early as that year, and didn't play in their conference so they wouldn't have to play against him every month if he developed into a star defenseman. That probably limited them to about two or three teams or the choice of not trading him at all. Some say they made the wrong choice.... but nonetheless these things must be considered.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:30 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
I could almost assure you that Florida will not trade him to another team in the East when they trade him.
No you can't.

Florida gets burned on every trade they make, they aren't going to limit what they can get for someone like Bouwmeester.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:31 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
O'Byrne, Maxwell, Fischer, 1st in 09
more like McDonagh + Higgins + 1st.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:33 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Give your head a shake!!!! Thats a terrible trade. Bowmeester is nowhere near the defencemen as Hamrlik is....and then to through O'Byrne, Higgins and a 1st rounder into the mix just makes me puke!!!

I would offer Dandenault, Latendresse, Lapierre and a 1st rounder for him....but nothing more.

Bowmeester is a good defencemen, but he isn't worth giving up the whole team for. He isn't better than Hamrlik and Higgins is a great player now...so we would be giving up way too much for him...not worth it.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=538974

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=538063
Check out #9 and #27

You have to give quality to get quality, we won't get star players by offering garbage all the time in trade proposals.

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07-25-2008, 12:34 PM
  #92
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Afinogenov, MacArthur, Drew Scheistel and a 2nd.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:36 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
No you can't.

Florida gets burned on every trade they make, they aren't going to limit what they can get for someone like Bouwmeester.
Take a closer look at those trades they "got burned on", before you dismiss that statement. Take a look at where those players landed.

Huselius to Calgary.
Luongo to Vancouver.
Bertuzzi to Detroit.
Jokinen to Phoenix.

They didn't at all get burned on the Bertuzzi trade, but it's just another example of them shipping a high caliber player out West.

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07-25-2008, 12:39 PM
  #94
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Lars Eller and Eric Brewer
or
Eller, Cole and a second.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:40 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Junk? Lupul, Hartnell, Parent, Downie, Jones even Gagne. Most of the players I mentioned are all under contract. Flyers may offer some of these players. Yeah junk... Just another Sens fan running his mouth.

Yo.. Philly has nothing, thats why we made it to the conference finals and you didn't..


O yeah... answer this.. How much are Vermette + Meszaros maikng?
Compared to J-Bo, the rest of that offer (save Gagne and maybe Lupul) is junk.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:42 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Tarpan View Post
You guys took Todd Bertuzzi for Luongo, do you think we can ditch Taylor Pyatt on you for Bouwmeester?
"You guys" no longer works for Florida.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
You do not want? Who the hell are you? Lupul was a center player in Prongers trade and hie is just ok in your books?
A trade in which most people thought Edmonton got hosed? That same trade?

But yeah...Lupul is right up there with Pronger.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:49 PM
  #98
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Puckhead58 does not represent the feelings of the majority of the Habs fanbase. In fact, I would wager that most Habs fans have him on ignore. Do the same.

As for Jay Bo and this possible deal, anyone wondering if the Panthers future is in serious doubt at this point? How can that franchise EVER get better if every star player they have either gets dealt it away or doesn't want to stay?

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:52 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Kessel, Mark Stuart and a 1st in '09.
I like it and wish we had the cap space to do it. Kessel 2.2, Stuart 1.3 + ~1 mil initial cap space is only about 4.5 mil in cap space to sign J-Bo after the trade. Boston would have to include Schaefer and his 2.1 mil contract or send Wideman instead of Stuart which I'm still not sure I'd want to do. For arguments sake, here's what I think the trade would have to look like from Boston's side for them to be able to make a move and still be under the cap.

Wideman, Kessel and a prospect (Hunwick / Karsums type value) for a signed J-Bo. (minimum 5 yr contract extension signed before trade)

I'd rather see a Kessel, Stuart, Schaefer, 09 first for J-Bo, but I think Florida would scoff at taking on Schaefer and his contract.

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Old
07-25-2008, 12:53 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
A trade in which most people thought Edmonton got hosed? That same trade?

But yeah...Lupul is right up there with Pronger.
Not to add insult to injury, but that was also before Lupul totally crapped the bed with Edmonton and registered a lower minus rating (-29) than total points scored (28).

He had a bounce back season last year for sure but the memory of that Edmonton year is not forgotten and to say that his trade value is roughly the same would be ludicrous.

At the time of the Pronger trade he was a 22 year old forward that scored 28 goals from the 3rd line of Anaheim. At the time of the Pitkanen trade he was a 23 year old forward that had the worst season of NHL hockey by such a promising forward in recent memory. Today he is a 24 year old forward who still touts those 28 goals as a rookie in Anaheim as his career best and the Edmonton season has to be cast from his resume before he approaches the same trade value he had at the time. It will take more than 50 games to get that done.

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