HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

HOH Top 100: Rejected Lists

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-26-2008, 03:50 AM
  #1
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
HOH Top 100: Rejected Lists

This thread contains all the lists which were rejected in the Round 1 voting phase, as well as the reasons for rejection and any comments on the list made by the reviewers. To spare any humiliation, the names of the posters who submitted these lists have been omitted.

List 21
RankPlayerPosition
1Wayne GretzkyC
2Bobby OrrD
3Gordie HoweRW
4Bryan TrottierC
5Bobby HullLW
6Mike BossyRW
7Mario LemieuxC
8Phil EspositoC
9Maurice RichardRW
10Jean BeliveauC
11Denis PotvinD
12Guy LafleurRW
13Steve YzermanC
14Patrick RoyG
15Mark MessierC
16Dale HawerchukC
17Eddie ShoreD
18Ted LindsayLW
19Tim HortonD
20Rod LangwayD
21Joe SakicC
22Peter StastnyC
23Terry SawchukG
24Martin BrodeurG
25Raymond BourqueD
26Billy SmithG
27Ken DrydenG
28Red KellyC/D
29Brett HullRW
30Bobby ClarkeC
31Pavel BureRW
32Jaromir JagrRW
33Elmer LachC
34Dave KeonC
35Marcel DionneC
36Ron FrancisC
37Paul CoffeyD
38Frank MahovlichLW
39Busher JacksonLW
40Rod GilbertRW
41Joe MaloneC
42Scott NiedermayerD
43Stan MikitaC
44Jari KurriRW
45Mike ModanoC
46Viacheslav FetisovD
47Darryl SittlerC
48Dickie MooreLW
49Dominik HasekG
50Denis SavardC
51Cyclone TaylorC
52Bob BaunD
53Johnny BowerG
54Glenn HallG
55Serge SavardD
56Milt SchmidtC
57Pat LaFontaineC
58Cam NeelyRW
59Larry RobinsonD
60Alex DelvecchioC/LW
61Johnny BucykLW
62Black Jack StewartD
63Grant FuhrG
64Andy BathgateRW
65Borje SalmingD
66Henri RichardC
67Gump WorsleyG
68Michel GouletLW
69Mike GartnerRW
70Gilbert PerreaultC
71Brian LeetchD
72Sergei FedorovC
73Doug HarveyD
74Cy DennenyLW
75Syl Apps, Sr.C
76Lanny McDonaldRW
77Bob GaineyLW
78George ArmstrongRW
79Guy LapointeD
80Al MacInnisD
81Larry MurphyD
82Luc RobitailleLW
83Nicklas LidstromD
84Joe MullenRW
85Teemu SelanneRW
86Igor LarionovC
87Mats SundinC
88Aurele JoliatLW
89Wayne CashmanLW
90Bill BarberLW
91Dave AndreychukLW
92Steve LarmerRW
93Dino CiccarelliRW
94Alexander MogilnyRW
95Bill MosienkoRW
96Jean RatelleC
97Frank BrimsekG
98Chris CheliosD
99Pat VerbeekRW
100Steve ShuttLW
101Pierre PiloteD
102Bernie NichollsC
103Adam OatesC
104Brendan ShanahanLW
105Eddie GiacominG
106Gerry CheeversG
107Glenn AndersonRW
108Clarke GilliesLW
109Ching JohnsonD
110Bernie ParentG
111Wendel ClarkLW
112Jeremy RoenickC
113Lorne ChabotG
114Rick VaiveRW
115Pierre TurgeonC
116Tony EspositoG
117Mark HoweD
118King ClancyD
119Bert OlmsteadLW
120Scott StevensD

Reason for Rejection: Bias against non-NHL international players

Reviewer comments:
Quote:
I’m going to have to say that 21 is rejected. It seems to put too much emphasis on recent players (Bossy and Trottier in the top-6, Hawerchuk at 16, Langway at 20, Bure at 31, Larmer and Vaive being on the list at all are some examples) and there are notable omissions from Soviet hockey (Kharlamov and Tretiak) and the early years (no Morenz or Lalonde).
Quote:
List 21 is 99.9% free of international players.

List 21 with almost no international players, and quite a number of very questionable selections near the end, as well as some strange rankings near the top, I would recommend for rejection.


Last edited by FissionFire: 07-26-2008 at 11:46 AM.
FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 03:50 AM
  #2
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
List 2
RankPlayerPosition
1Wayne GretzkyC
2Gordie HoweRW
3Mario LemieuxC
4Phil EspositoC
5Maurice RichardRW
6Jean BeliveauC
7Bobby HullLW
8Bobby OrrD
9Raymond BourqueD
10Eddie ShoreD
11Jaromir JagrRW
12Stan MikitaC
13Guy LafleurRW
14Doug HarveyD
15Jacques PlanteG
16Red KellyD
17Dominik HasekG
18Glenn HallG
19Howie MorenzC
20Terry SawchukG
21Ken DrydenG
22Mark MessierC
23Ted LindsayLW
24Nicklas LidstromD
25Paul CoffeyD
26Mike BossyRW
27Patrick RoyG
28Frank NighborC
29Bryan TrottierC
30Bobby ClarkeC
31Bernie GeoffrionRW
32Denis PotvinD
33Bill CookRW
34Joe SakicC
35Chris CheliosD
36Larry RobinsonD
37Brett HullRW
38Steve YzermanC
39Clint BenedictG
40Frank BrimsekG
41Frank BoucherC
42Charlie ConacherRW
43Jari KurriRW
44Tiny ThompsonG
45King ClancyD
46Martin BrodeurG
47Turk BrodaG
48Cy DennenyLW
49Georges VezinaG
50Bill DurnanG
51Brad ParkD
52Frank MahovlichLW
53Pierre PiloteD
54Sprague CleghornD
55Dit ClapperRW/D
56Syl Apps, Sr.C
57Al MacInnisD
58Henri RichardC
59George BoucherD
60Nels StewartC
61Dickie MooreLW
62Marcel DionneC
63Tony EspositoG
64Scott StevensD
65Aurel JoliatLW
66George HainsworthG
67Milt SchmidtC
68Yvan CournoyerRW
69Elmer LachC
70Newsy LalondeC
71Peter ForsbergC
72Johnny BowerG
73Joe MaloneC
74Bill CowleyC
75Bernie ParentG
76Babe DyeRW
77Harry LumleyG
78Sergei FedorovC
79Teemu SelanneRW
80Alex DelvecchioC/LW
81Sid AbelC/LW
82Johnny BucykLW
83Ed BelfourG
84Luc RobitailleLW
85Charlie GardinerG
86Ron FrancisC
87Grant FuhrG
88Ed GiacominG
89Gump WorsleyG
90Harry CameronD
91Toe BlakeLW
92Alex ConnellG
93Andy BathgateRW
94Claude ProvostRW
95Ted KennedyC
96Tim HortonD
97Busher JacksonLW
98Billy SmithG
99Butch BouchardD
100Dave KeonC
101Steve ShuttLW
102Bob GaineyLW
103Jacques LaperriereD
104Guy LapointeD
105Ebbie GoodfellowD
106Norm UllmanC
107Scott NiedermayerD
108Brendan ShanahanLW
109Rod LangwayD
110Jacques LemaireC
111Brian LeetchD
112Paul KariyaLW
113Gordie DrillonRW
114Eric LindrosC
115Pavel BureRW
116Jarome IginlaRW
117Serge SavardD
118Max BentleyC
119Bobby BauerRW
120J.C. TremblayD

Reason for Rejection: No non-NHL players listed

Reviewer Comments:
Quote:
I’m going to have to say rejected on this one.

Really well put together list but they’ve completely excluded any players who didn’t play in the NHL (perhaps they weren’t aware of the change in format). No Taylor, Kharlamov, Fetisov, etc.
Quote:
Rejected

This list appears to be written while the NHL only rules were in effect.


Last edited by FissionFire: 07-26-2008 at 03:31 PM.
FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 04:20 AM
  #3
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
This thread contains all the lists which were rejected in the Round 1 voting phase, as well as the reasons for rejection and any comments on the list made by the reviewers. To spare any humiliation, the names of the posters who submitted these lists have been omitted.

List 21
RankPlayerPosition
1Wayne GretzkyC
2Bobby OrrD
3Gordie HoweRW
4Bryan TrottierC
5Bobby HullLW
6Mike BossyRW
7Mario LemieuxC
8Phil EspositoC
9Maurice RichardRW
10Jean BeliveauC
11Denis PotvinD
12Guy LafleurRW
13Steve YzermanC
14Patrick RoyG
15Mark MessierC
16Dale HawerchukC
17Eddie ShoreD
18Ted LindsayLW
19Tim HortonD
20Rod LangwayD
21Joe SakicC
22Peter StastnyC
23Terry SawchukG
24Martin BrodeurG
25Raymond BourqueD
26Billy SmithG
27Ken DrydenG
28Red KellyC/D
29Brett HullRW
30Bobby ClarkeC
31Pavel BureRW
32Jaromir JagrRW
33Elmer LachC
34Dave KeonC
35Marcel DionneC
36Ron FrancisC
37Paul CoffeyD
38Frank MahovlichLW
39Busher JacksonLW
40Rod GilbertRW
41Joe MaloneC
42Scott NiedermayerD
43Stan MikitaC
44Jari KurriRW
45Mike ModanoC
46Viacheslav FetisovD
47Darryl SittlerC
48Dickie MooreLW
49Dominik HasekG
50Denis SavardC
51Cyclone TaylorC
52Bob BaunD
53Johnny BowerG
54Glenn HallG
55Serge SavardD
56Milt SchmidtC
57Pat LafontaineC
58Cam NeelyRW
59Larry RobinsonD
60Alex DelvecchioC/LW
61Johnny BucykLW
62Black Jack StewartD
63Grant FuhrG
64Andy BathgateRW
65Borje SalmingD
66Henri RichardC
67Gump WorsleyG
68Michel GouletLW
69Mike GartnerRW
70Gilbert PerreaultC
71Brian LeetchD
72Sergei FedorovC
73Doug HarveyD
74Cy DennenyLW
75Syl Apps, Sr.C
76Lanny McDonaldRW
77Bob GaineyLW
78George ArmstrongRW
79Guy LapointeD
80Al MacInnisD
81Larry MurphyD
82Luc RobitailleLW
83Nicklas LidstromD
84Joe MullenRW
85Teemu SelanneRW
86Igor LarionovC
87Mats SundinC
88Aurele JoliatLW
89Wayne CashmanLW
90Bill BarberLW
91Dave AndreychukLW
92Steve LarmerRW
93Dino CiccarelliRW
94Alexander MogilnyRW
95Bill MosienkoRW
96Jean RatelleC
97Frank BrimsekG
98Chris CheliosD
99Pat VerbeekRW
100Steve ShuttLW
101Pierre PiloteD
102Bernie NichollsC
103Adam OatesC
104Brendan ShanahanLW
105Eddie GiacominG
106Gerry CheeversG
107Glenn AndersonRW
108Clarke GilliesLW
109Ching JohnsonD
110Bernie ParentG
111Wendel ClarkLW
112Jeremy RoenickC
113Lorne ChabotG
114Rick VaiveRW
115Pierre TurgeonC
116Tony EspositoG
117Mark HoweD
118King ClancyD
119Bert OlmsteadLW
120Scott StevensD

Reason for Rejection: Bias against non-NHL international players

Reviewer comments:
I was giggling when I saw Lemieux come in behind Bossy and Trotz. Laughing hard when I saw Hawerchuk and Langway in the top 20, Laughed even harder when I saw Bure at 31 and was guffawing when I saw Modano, LaFontaine and Neely between 45 and 60.

The rest of the list was pretty funny too.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 10:47 AM
  #4
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
To me the worst things on the list were Eddie Shore at 17 and Hasek at 49.

But, when comparing the top players ever I wouldn't say I laughed at the picks unless there was absolutely no reason for the players in question to even be in the top 200.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 12:50 PM
  #5
BM67
Registered User
 
BM67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In "The System"
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,579
vCash: 500
Doug Harvey at 73. Only 16 goalies total, and 5 of them come after 100.

BM67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 02:51 PM
  #6
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
Although not mentioned yet, I thought the complete exlusion of Jacques Plante was probably the most egregious oversight.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 03:31 PM
  #7
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
Second rejected list added.

These two lists (List 2 and List 21) were the only two lists which were rejected for inclusion in the project.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 03:39 PM
  #8
lextune
I'm too old for this
 
lextune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 9,536
vCash: 500
I am probably the biggest Neely fan alive but seeing him in the top 60 made even me roll my eyes.


lextune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 03:51 PM
  #9
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,373
vCash: 500
Bobby Orr at #8 in the second list made me giggle. In a manly way.

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 05:25 PM
  #10
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 21,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
List 2
RankPlayerPosition
1Wayne GretzkyC
2Gordie HoweRW
3Mario LemieuxC
4Phil EspositoC
5Maurice RichardRW
6Jean BeliveauC
7Bobby HullLW
8Bobby OrrD
9Raymond BourqueD
10Eddie ShoreD
11Jaromir JagrRW
12Stan MikitaC
13Guy LafleurRW
14Doug HarveyD
15Jacques PlanteG
16Red KellyD
17Dominik HasekG
18Glenn HallG
19Howie MorenzC
20Terry SawchukG
21Ken DrydenG
22Mark MessierC
23Ted LindsayLW
24Nicklas LidstromD
25Paul CoffeyD
26Mike BossyRW
27Patrick RoyG
28Frank NighborC
29Bryan TrottierC
30Bobby ClarkeC
31Bernie GeoffrionRW
32Denis PotvinD
33Bill CookRW
34Joe SakicC
35Chris CheliosD
36Larry RobinsonD
37Brett HullRW
38Steve YzermanC
39Clint BenedictG
40Frank BrimsekG
41Frank BoucherC
42Charlie ConacherRW
43Jari KurriRW
44Tiny ThompsonG
45King ClancyD
46Martin BrodeurG
47Turk BrodaG
48Cy DennenyLW
49Georges VezinaG
50Bill DurnanG
51Brad ParkD
52Frank MahovlichLW
53Pierre PiloteD
54Sprague CleghornD
55Dit ClapperRW/D
56Syl Apps, Sr.C
57Al MacInnisD
58Henri RichardC
59George BoucherD
60Nels StewartC
61Dickie MooreLW
62Marcel DionneC
63Tony EspositoG
64Scott StevensD
65Aurel JoliatLW
66George HainsworthG
67Milt SchmidtC
68Yvan CournoyerRW
69Elmer LachC
70Newsy LalondeC
71Peter ForsbergC
72Johnny BowerG
73Joe MaloneC
74Bill CowleyC
75Bernie ParentG
76Babe DyeRW
77Harry LumleyG
78Sergei FedorovC
79Teemu SelanneRW
80Alex DelvecchioC/LW
81Sid AbelC/LW
82Johnny BucykLW
83Ed BelfourG
84Luc RobitailleLW
85Charlie GardinerG
86Ron FrancisC
87Grant FuhrG
88Ed GiacominG
89Gump WorsleyG
90Harry CameronD
91Toe BlakeLW
92Alex ConnellG
93Andy BathgateRW
94Claude ProvostRW
95Ted KennedyC
96Tim HortonD
97Busher JacksonLW
98Billy SmithG
99Butch BouchardD
100Dave KeonC
101Steve ShuttLW
102Bob GaineyLW
103Jacques LaperriereD
104Guy LapointeD
105Ebbie GoodfellowD
106Norm UllmanC
107Scott NiedermayerD
108Brendan ShanahanLW
109Rod LangwayD
110Jacques LemaireC
111Brian LeetchD
112Paul KariyaLW
113Gordie DrillonRW
114Eric LindrosC
115Pavel BureRW
116Jarome IginlaRW
117Serge SavardD
118Max BentleyC
119Bobby BauerRW
120J.C. TremblayD

Reason for Rejection: No non-NHL players listed

Reviewer Comments:
Well, some EXTREMELY wierd stuff (Nighbor in the Top-30? Espo at 4? Harry Lumley in the list? If at least Espo and Orr would have been inverted...) and some calls that I don't agree with even though they aren't that off (Schmidt at 67?). I think that one wasn't that bad, and considering the number of lists we hand, it could have been accepted (if only because it would have corrected the oddity of having Nighbor in the 94-100 range). Many europeans players got voted on their first round of eligibility, even if there were definitely better choices avaiable (I still don't understand the Mikhailov/Cleghorn inversion...)

MXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 05:29 PM
  #11
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
This thread contains all the lists which were rejected in the Round 1 voting phase, as well as the reasons for rejection and any comments on the list made by the reviewers. To spare any humiliation, the names of the posters who submitted these lists have been omitted.

List 21
RankPlayerPosition
1Wayne GretzkyC
2Bobby OrrD
3Gordie HoweRW
4Bryan TrottierC
5Bobby HullLW
6Mike BossyRW
7Mario LemieuxC
8Phil EspositoC
9Maurice RichardRW
10Jean BeliveauC
11Denis PotvinD
12Guy LafleurRW
13Steve YzermanC
14Patrick RoyG
15Mark MessierC
16Dale HawerchukC
17Eddie ShoreD
18Ted LindsayLW
19Tim HortonD
20Rod LangwayD
21Joe SakicC
22Peter StastnyC
23Terry SawchukG
24Martin BrodeurG
25Raymond BourqueD
26Billy SmithG
27Ken DrydenG
28Red KellyC/D
29Brett HullRW
30Bobby ClarkeC
31Pavel BureRW
32Jaromir JagrRW
33Elmer LachC
34Dave KeonC
35Marcel DionneC
36Ron FrancisC
37Paul CoffeyD
38Frank MahovlichLW
39Busher JacksonLW
40Rod GilbertRW
41Joe MaloneC
42Scott NiedermayerD
43Stan MikitaC
44Jari KurriRW
45Mike ModanoC
46Viacheslav FetisovD
47Darryl SittlerC
48Dickie MooreLW
49Dominik HasekG
50Denis SavardC
51Cyclone TaylorC
52Bob BaunD
53Johnny BowerG
54Glenn HallG
55Serge SavardD
56Milt SchmidtC
57Pat LaFontaineC
58Cam NeelyRW
59Larry RobinsonD
60Alex DelvecchioC/LW
61Johnny BucykLW
62Black Jack StewartD
63Grant FuhrG
64Andy BathgateRW
65Borje SalmingD
66Henri RichardC
67Gump WorsleyG
68Michel GouletLW
69Mike GartnerRW
70Gilbert PerreaultC
71Brian LeetchD
72Sergei FedorovC
73Doug HarveyD
74Cy DennenyLW
75Syl Apps, Sr.C
76Lanny McDonaldRW
77Bob GaineyLW
78George ArmstrongRW
79Guy LapointeD
80Al MacInnisD
81Larry MurphyD
82Luc RobitailleLW
83Nicklas LidstromD
84Joe MullenRW
85Teemu SelanneRW
86Igor LarionovC
87Mats SundinC
88Aurele JoliatLW
89Wayne CashmanLW
90Bill BarberLW
91Dave AndreychukLW
92Steve LarmerRW
93Dino CiccarelliRW
94Alexander MogilnyRW
95Bill MosienkoRW
96Jean RatelleC
97Frank BrimsekG
98Chris CheliosD
99Pat VerbeekRW
100Steve ShuttLW
101Pierre PiloteD
102Bernie NichollsC
103Adam OatesC
104Brendan ShanahanLW
105Eddie GiacominG
106Gerry CheeversG
107Glenn AndersonRW
108Clarke GilliesLW
109Ching JohnsonD
110Bernie ParentG
111Wendel ClarkLW
112Jeremy RoenickC
113Lorne ChabotG
114Rick VaiveRW
115Pierre TurgeonC
116Tony EspositoG
117Mark HoweD
118King ClancyD
119Bert OlmsteadLW
120Scott StevensD

Reason for Rejection: Bias against non-NHL international players

Reviewer comments:
I hope I'm not of line criticizing the lists... they are anonymous, after all, and I see no other reason to post them other than to discuss.

Conspicuous in their absence:
1. Howie Morenz (we had him 10th)
2. Jacques Plante (12th)
3. Newsy Lalonde (29th)
4. Valeri Kharlamov (30th)
5. Bernie Geoffrion (39th)
6. Brad Park (40th)
7. Bill Cook (42nd)
8. Bill Durnan (44th)
9. Charlie Conacher (45th)
10. Max Bentley (46th)
Other than that, I wouldn't presume that anyone past our top-50 absolutely HAD to appear on other lists, but for fun, here are the next few who weren't listed: Tretiak, Clapper, Boucher, Broda, Seibert, Benedict, Nels Stewart, Mikhailov, Cleghorn.


Grossly (not just a little, a lot) underrated:
1. Doug Harvey - 73rd!
2. Pierre Pilote - 101st!
3. Chris Chelios - 98th!
4. Nicklas Lidstrom - 83rd!
5. Glenn Hall - 54th!
6. Dominik Hasek - 49th!
7. Stan Mikita - 43rd???
8. Larry Robinson - 59th!
9. Ray Bourque - 25th!
10. Eddie Shore - 17th!

9/10 of these were defensemen and goalies.

Grossly overrated players who still should have ranked: (only players listed who were ranked twice as high as they should have been, or 30 spots or more
1. Bryan Trottier - 4th!
2. Mike Bossy - 6th!
3. Phil Esposito 8th
4. Tim Horton - 19th, and 4th among defensemen!
5. Peter Stastny 22nd
6. Billy Smith 26th
7. Brett Hull 29th
8. Elmer lach 33rd
9. Dave Keon 34th
10. Ron Francis 36th
11. Serge Savard - 55th

8/11 of these were forwards.

Highly ranked players who are questionable but may have been considered by a few others near the very bottom of their lists:
1. Dale Hawerchuk 16th
2. Rod Langway 20th
3. Pavel Bure 31st... and ahead of Jagr!
4. Rod Gilbert 40th (56 spots ahead of Jean Ratelle, who shouldn't be here either!)
5. Scott Niedermayer 42nd
6. Mike Modano 45th
7. Darryl Sittler 47th
8. Denis Savard 50th

6/8 of these were forwards.

Should never be listed by anyone, not even at 120th:
1. Bob Baun, 52nd
2. Mike Gartner, 69th
3. George Armstrong, 78th
4. Wayne Cashman, 89th
5. Dave Andreychuk 91st
6. Steve Larmer 92nd
7. Dino Ciccarelli 93rd
8. Alexander Mogilny 94th
9. Bill Mosienko 95th
10. Pat Verbeek 99th
11. Steve Shutt 100th
12. Bernie Nicholls 102nd
13. Clark Gillies 108th
14. Wendel Clark 111th
15. Rick Vaive 114th
16. Pierre Turgeon 115th

15/16 of these were forwards.

Generally this person overrates forwards badly, and underrates defensemen and goalies. I'd like to say that maybe this list was put together by a teenager, but this person clearly was an Isles fan in the early 1980's.

Since I'm not immune from criticism... here is my list judged by the same criteria:

conspicuously absent:
1. Boris Mikhailov (we had him 68th)
2. Sergei Makarov (77th)
3. Anatoli Firsov (84th)
4. Vsevolod Bobrov (95th-109th)
5. Valeri Vasiliev (95th-109th)

underrated: (I had to lower the criteria for anyone to show up on this list, I had to have ranked them more than 50% further down the list than they ended up)
1. Peter Forsberg - 114th
2. Al macInnis - 109th
3. Vladislav Tretiak - 76th
4. Howie Morenz - 18th
5. Ray Bourque - 17th
6. Bobby Hull - 8th

overrated, still should be ranked: (50% criteria applied)
1. Doug harvey - 5th
2. Patrick Roy - 9th
3. Glenn Hall - 12th
4. Mark Messier - 15th
5. Gilbert Perreault - 50th

players I ranked who won't make the top-100 (and aren't up for voting now):
1. Igor Larionov - 84th
2. Babe Dye - 87th
3. Lorne Chabot - 88th
4. Georges Vezina - 90th
5. Lionel Conacher - 92nd
6. Georges Boucher - 98th
7. Sweeney Schriner - 99th
8. Tiny Thompson - 104th
9. Jack Stewart - 106th
10. Gump Worsley - 112th
11. Joe Primeau - 113th
12. Darry Sittler - 115th
13. Luc Robitaille - 116th
14. Butch Bouchard - 117th
15. Jean Ratelle - 118th
16. Ed Belfour - 120th

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 05:32 PM
  #12
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 21,895
vCash: 500
Shore at 17th isn't criminal... Not wise, but not criminal.

MXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 05:34 PM
  #13
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,670
vCash: 500
Just took a look at the original THN list... you have to go down to 75th, Georges Vezina, to find a player we didn't at least discuss.


Last edited by seventieslord: 07-26-2008 at 05:43 PM.
seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2008, 10:08 PM
  #14
pappyline
Registered User
 
pappyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mass/formerly Ont
Country: United States
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
.

Since I'm not immune from criticism... here is my list judged by the same criteria:

conspicuously absent:
1. Boris Mikhailov (we had him 68th)
2. Sergei Makarov (77th)
3. Anatoli Firsov (84th)
4. Vsevolod Bobrov (95th-109th)
5. Valeri Vasiliev (95th-109th)

underrated: (I had to lower the criteria for anyone to show up on this list, I had to have ranked them more than 50% further down the list than they ended up)
1. Peter Forsberg - 114th
2. Al macInnis - 109th
3. Vladislav Tretiak - 76th
4. Howie Morenz - 18th
5. Ray Bourque - 17th
6. Bobby Hull - 8th

overrated, still should be ranked: (50% criteria applied)
1. Doug harvey - 5th
2. Patrick Roy - 9th
3. Glenn Hall - 12th
4. Mark Messier - 15th
5. Gilbert Perreault - 50th

players I ranked who won't make the top-100 (and aren't up for voting now):
1. Igor Larionov - 84th
2. Babe Dye - 87th
3. Lorne Chabot - 88th
4. Georges Vezina - 90th
5. Lionel Conacher - 92nd
6. Georges Boucher - 98th
7. Sweeney Schriner - 99th
8. Tiny Thompson - 104th
9. Jack Stewart - 106th
10. Gump Worsley - 112th
11. Joe Primeau - 113th
12. Darry Sittler - 115th
13. Luc Robitaille - 116th
14. Butch Bouchard - 117th
15. Jean Ratelle - 118th
16. Ed Belfour - 120th
Nice pre-emptive airing of dirt laundry. My lists would be even longer so I will only give the highlights,

Conspicuously absent which shows my ignorance of Russian players but I have learned a lot.

Mikailov
Makarov
Stevens
Francis
Vasiliev
Pronger

As far as drastically under-rated to the final list, I have a eleven players. The most obvious are:

Brodeur(me at 120, list at 34)
Roy(43 & 16)
Fetisov (57 & 35)
Chelios (68 & 42)
McInnes(117 & 64)

Overrated
Jackson (33 & 89)
Kennedy (35 & 72)
Gardiner (46 & 91)
Perrault (49 & 85)

Guys I had top 100 but never came up

Dye 79
Schriner 85
Pratt 87
Stewart 88
Primeau 90
L. conacher 94
R.Conacher 95
Paul Thompson 100

I would certainly change many of my rankings after going through this exercise. Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with the final rankings.. For example. I would move Brodeur up considerably but not all the way to # 34

pappyline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 01:35 AM
  #15
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
One thing I want to say is that using "overrated/underrated" when compared to the final list isn't really the right words. The final lists is a consensus opinion of 26 posters. It's very possible (maybe even likely) that some of the names on it are themselves overrated/underrated. Instead of comparing to the final list, why not compare them to how you'd rank them now instead. Just because, for example, the list has Brodeur at 34 doesn't mean that you are necessarily underrating him if you put him at 60. It just means you have a differing opinion.

I sincerely hope that for the update people don't let the final list influence how they rank players. If your opinion was swayed by the debate that's great. If you feel you need to slide a player up or down the list because the final list did that, then don't. Without variety of opinions, this project becomes very stale. Besides, I think once I post up everyones lists that people will realize how incredibly lax the approval criteria was so nobody has to be afraid that they'll get a list rejected just because you rank Howie Morenz at 75 instead of 10.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 03:03 AM
  #16
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,670
vCash: 500
I can't say I completely agree with that first statement. If I had Forsberg 114th but we ended up voting him in the 70's, then either you are all overrating him or I underrated him. I'm betting on the latter.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 03:49 AM
  #17
ck26
Free Raptor Reagan
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 7,116
vCash: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I can't say I completely agree with that first statement. If I had Forsberg 114th but we ended up voting him in the 70's, then either you are all overrating him or I underrated him. I'm betting on the latter.
The terms over- and underrated are inherently silly. I don't overrate Gordie Howe putting him 1st or underrate Bobby Orr putting him 3rd, I just have a different set of criteria than most.

I didn't post very often in these threads because I had relatively little to add ... there's not much I know factually that the rest of you guys don't ... I'm just here to shill for rough-and-tumble, two-way hockey and to occasionally speak up for the incredibly-underrated goal scorer.

I lost my original list when I lost my harddrive a while back, so I'd like to see my list again. If I submitted 7 in 7 days, they'd probably all look different depending on my mood. Is this just me or is anyone else in this situation?

ck26 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 06:06 AM
  #18
Kyle McMahon
Registered User
 
Kyle McMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Evil Empire
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,724
vCash: 500
On the list so far that didn't make my top 120:

-Clint Benedict (Oops. You'd think that myself, a big proponent of the old-timers, wouldn't have committed such an obvious oversight)
-Al MacInnis (Still looks out of place to me at #64. Didn't really give him serious consideration for my list, but arguments for him were solid)
-Johnny Bower (arguments opened my eyes on Bower)
-Sergei Makarov (see Bower)
-Sergei Fedorov (surprised he's as high as he is, probably still wouldn't have him in my top 100)
-Scott Stevens (Had to include so old-time d-men, so Stevens, Bouchard, and Quackenbush got edged out)

Clearly underrated by myself:

-Howie Morenz (21 on my list). Playoff record looked suspect to me, but I later discovered that numerous 20's and 30's stars saw dramatic point reductions in the playoffs.
-Ted Lindsay (33 on my list). Lack of hardware, but I punished him too harshly for it.
-Syl Apps (65 on my list), Charlie Conacher (61 on my list), Elmer Lach (102 on my list). Punished perceived lack of longevity too harshly.
-Martin Brodeur (79 on my list). I think he's borderline Top 50, so I underrated him and our list overrated him IMO.
-Turk Broda (81 on my list). Great playoff record warrants better than I gave him.
-Moose Johnson (not listed). Somehow I missed him, easily top 100 upon further research.

Overrated by myself:

-Bill Durnan (26 on my list). Great peak, but I probably had him a little too high as the fifth goalie on my list.
-Nels Stewart (34 on my list). A little low on our list, and little high on mine IMO.
-George Hainesworth (48 on my list). I really dont know what I was thinking.
-Harry "Hap" Holmes (63 on my list). Think he's underrated and worthy of discussion, but this is probably too high.
-Vsevolod Bobrov (68 on my list). Wasn't as aware of competition issues as I should have been.

In my top 120 that never came up:

Hap Holmes (63)
Georges Vezina (66)
Tiny Thompson (69)
Ching Johnson (86)
Eddie Gerard (87)
Frank Fredricksson (93)
Denis Savard (94)
Dale Hawerchuk (95)
Didier Pitre (96)
Bullet Joe Simpson (99)
Adam Oates (104)
Milan Novy (105) *any thoughts on this selection?*
Hugh Lehman (106)
Frank Foyston (107)
Roy Worters (108)
George Boucher (109)
Babe Dye (110)
Sweeny Schriner (111)
Harry Cameron (112)
Jan Suchy (113)
Jack Darragh (114)
Black Jack Stewart (116)
Duke Keats (117)
Aleksander Maltsev (118)
Mike Gartner (119)
Lionel Conacher (120)

Others:

-Cyclone Taylor (12 on my list). Obviously much higher than our list, but I maintain that the best pre-NHL/pre-1926 player deserves a spot in the top 15, be it Taylor, Lalonde, or somebody else.
-Cy Denneny (27 on my list). A lot higher than on our list, but I still think it's defensible.
-Joe Malone (32 on my list). See above.
-Frank Nighbor (57 on my list). May or may not make our top 100; criminally underrated regardless, IMO.

Kyle McMahon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 07:59 AM
  #19
Triffy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Helsinki
Country: Finland
Posts: 336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Overrated by myself:
-Nels Stewart (34 on my list). A little low on our list, and little high on mine IMO.

In my top 120 that never came up:

Ching Johnson (86)
Eddie Gerard (87)

Milan Novy (105) *any thoughts on this selection?*

George Boucher (109)

Jan Suchy (113)

Aleksander Maltsev (118)


Others:

-Frank Nighbor (57 on my list). May or may not make our top 100; criminally underrated regardless, IMO.
Interesting read.

Like you, I don't see any sense in not having Nighbor on the list already. Cy Denneny is already at 65. Nels Stewart a spot below him. Nighbor played much more complete game than either of those two. And his offensive contribution wasn't that much below theirs. I think Nighbor is very similar to Ted Kennedy who is listed at 72.

You have Ching Johnson and Eddie Gerard one after another, but George Boucher quite significantly below them. Gerard and Boucher were very similar during their Senators time, so I suppose you value Gerard's pre-Senators years quite much. I know nothing about what he did during his OCHL and IPAHU years compared to his contemporaries, so I'd be interested to hear about that.

Milan Novy has great individual statistics but I haven't read anything that would suggest he was better than another Czechoslovakian star center Ivan Hlinka, for example. And I certainly wouldn't rank him above Petrov or Maltsev. Vladimir Zabrodsky seems very interesting case, but it's almost impossible to find his year by year statistics. Has anyone found them? As Reds4Life posted, Zabrodsky was voted only below Hasek and Jagr when 50 Czech hockey experts were voting for the best Czech players ever. Novy isn't even in the top 12. It would be interesting to hear why because he has such a great résumé.

Jan Suchy is an interesting case too. I personally like what I've read, he seems to be greatly appreciated by people who saw him play. I wish I knew more about him. He's a step below Fetisov but very likely close to Salming.

Does anyone know which was Maltsev's main position, center or right wing? He's been regularly used on wing on the ATD lineups but I've got a picture he was a natural center. Correct me if I'm wrong.

When speaking of the greatest Russian defensemen ever, Vasiliev's name keeps popping up here almost every time after Fetisov. I haven't heard a good case for him yet. Again, I'd be interested to hear why. I'd like to suggest Nikolai Sologubov too. Like Vasiliev, he was three times (1956, 1957 and 1960) the best defenseman in the world championships. There were no all-star team selections during his time. Vasiliev has 4 all-star team selections. I think Ragulin is a step below these two.

Triffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 09:49 AM
  #20
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
The terms over- and underrated are inherently silly. I don't overrate Gordie Howe putting him 1st or underrate Bobby Orr putting him 3rd, I just have a different set of criteria than most.

I didn't post very often in these threads because I had relatively little to add ... there's not much I know factually that the rest of you guys don't ... I'm just here to shill for rough-and-tumble, two-way hockey and to occasionally speak up for the incredibly-underrated goal scorer.

I lost my original list when I lost my harddrive a while back, so I'd like to see my list again. If I submitted 7 in 7 days, they'd probably all look different depending on my mood. Is this just me or is anyone else in this situation?
I'm with you as a shill for goal scorers and the more physical aspects of the game.
There was a lot to learn from just sitting back and reading the give and take. I didn't get into this until the list got up to around 40, so I never made a list. If I did a top 120 I'm sure it would be a lot different than the one I would make now.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 10:47 AM
  #21
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 21,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triffy View Post

When speaking of the greatest Russian defensemen ever, Vasiliev's name keeps popping up here almost every time after Fetisov. I haven't heard a good case for him yet. Again, I'd be interested to hear why. I'd like to suggest Nikolai Sologubov too. Like Vasiliev, he was three times (1956, 1957 and 1960) the best defenseman in the world championships. There were no all-star team selections during his time. Vasiliev has 4 all-star team selections. I think Ragulin is a step below these two.
I had Sologubov in my HM's. Very interesting resume, but I definitely had some concerns on his competition level - thus pushing him on the HM list. Which puts him in the Tom Johnson category, even though their careers are pretty much polar opposites when I think about it (great D-Men, weak competition vs. a guy stuck as a 2nd Men to the 2nd best D-Men ever in an era with great competition). Another comparable would be Ebbie Goodfellow.

I had Maltsev in the 100-120 range in my list. There something to be said about his goal-scoring prowesses everywhere he played...

MXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 02:24 PM
  #22
Kyle McMahon
Registered User
 
Kyle McMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Evil Empire
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triffy View Post
You have Ching Johnson and Eddie Gerard one after another, but George Boucher quite significantly below them. Gerard and Boucher were very similar during their Senators time, so I suppose you value Gerard's pre-Senators years quite much. I know nothing about what he did during his OCHL and IPAHU years compared to his contemporaries, so I'd be interested to hear about that.
I wasn't really taking into account years in the OCHL and IPAHU, so I couldn't tell you very much about them. Both appear to be lesser league's than the ECAHA and the NHA, so I can't imagine the competition level was all that great.

In listing the three defensemen, I didn't really have time to go over the list with a fine-tooth comb, asking myself "is player X better than player Y?". All three look to be of similar talent, so I could very well have listed Boucher ahead of them if I made my list a week later. Gerard was Ottawa's captain, and was a pretty good forward before switching to defense. In 1922, the St. Patricks were allowed to select any NHL defender as an injury replacement for their Stanley Cup series against Vancouver, and they chose Gerard. Those items probably caught my eye when throwing together the bottom third of my list, which is certainly something that would look different if time had allowed for more in-depth research.

Quote:
Milan Novy has great individual statistics but I haven't read anything that would suggest he was better than another Czechoslovakian star center Ivan Hlinka, for example. And I certainly wouldn't rank him above Petrov or Maltsev. Vladimir Zabrodsky seems very interesting case, but it's almost impossible to find his year by year statistics. Has anyone found them? As Reds4Life posted, Zabrodsky was voted only below Hasek and Jagr when 50 Czech hockey experts were voting for the best Czech players ever. Novy isn't even in the top 12. It would be interesting to hear why because he has such a great résumé.
When was looking at Czech forwards, the first player I looked at was Nedomansky. But from what I was able to find, I thought Novy was the better player. Three MVP's, six scoring titles (some with Stastny as competition), great international resume, I don't see what's not to like. I saw a quote somewhere that according to some who followed hockey in the late 70's, Novy was the best player not in the NHL.

Quote:
When speaking of the greatest Russian defensemen ever, Vasiliev's name keeps popping up here almost every time after Fetisov. I haven't heard a good case for him yet. Again, I'd be interested to hear why. I'd like to suggest Nikolai Sologubov too. Like Vasiliev, he was three times (1956, 1957 and 1960) the best defenseman in the world championships. There were no all-star team selections during his time. Vasiliev has 4 all-star team selections. I think Ragulin is a step below these two.
I gave Sologubov a long look, he missed out on my list by a slim margin. Competition issues would certainly be prevalent when dealing with Sologubov though, similar to Bobrov and Sven Tumba.

Kyle McMahon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 03:28 PM
  #23
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triffy View Post
Interesting read.

Like you, I don't see any sense in not having Nighbor on the list already. Cy Denneny is already at 65. Nels Stewart a spot below him. Nighbor played much more complete game than either of those two. And his offensive contribution wasn't that much below theirs. I think Nighbor is very similar to Ted Kennedy who is listed at 72.

You have Ching Johnson and Eddie Gerard one after another, but George Boucher quite significantly below them. Gerard and Boucher were very similar during their Senators time, so I suppose you value Gerard's pre-Senators years quite much. I know nothing about what he did during his OCHL and IPAHU years compared to his contemporaries, so I'd be interested to hear about that.

Milan Novy has great individual statistics but I haven't read anything that would suggest he was better than another Czechoslovakian star center Ivan Hlinka, for example. And I certainly wouldn't rank him above Petrov or Maltsev. Vladimir Zabrodsky seems very interesting case, but it's almost impossible to find his year by year statistics. Has anyone found them? As Reds4Life posted, Zabrodsky was voted only below Hasek and Jagr when 50 Czech hockey experts were voting for the best Czech players ever. Novy isn't even in the top 12. It would be interesting to hear why because he has such a great résumé.

Jan Suchy is an interesting case too. I personally like what I've read, he seems to be greatly appreciated by people who saw him play. I wish I knew more about him. He's a step below Fetisov but very likely close to Salming.

Does anyone know which was Maltsev's main position, center or right wing? He's been regularly used on wing on the ATD lineups but I've got a picture he was a natural center. Correct me if I'm wrong.

When speaking of the greatest Russian defensemen ever, Vasiliev's name keeps popping up here almost every time after Fetisov. I haven't heard a good case for him yet. Again, I'd be interested to hear why. I'd like to suggest Nikolai Sologubov too. Like Vasiliev, he was three times (1956, 1957 and 1960) the best defenseman in the world championships. There were no all-star team selections during his time. Vasiliev has 4 all-star team selections. I think Ragulin is a step below these two.
Vasiliev's lack of all star selections in Russian Hockey =has a little to do with because his style of play was highly frowned upon until after the Summit series, as well as not playing for the Red Army team + Playing his career parallel to Fetisov for many years.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 04:23 PM
  #24
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triffy View Post
Vladimir Zabrodsky seems very interesting case, but it's almost impossible to find his year by year statistics. Has anyone found them?
This is what I have, but it is probably nothing new.

Season Team League No. GP G A P PIM GP G A P PIM


1943-1944 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia 5 10 * -- 10 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1944-1945 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1945-1946 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1946-1947 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia 4 17 * -- 17 * -- -- -- -- -- --

Czechoslovakia WEC-A -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1947-1948 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Czechoslovakia Olympics -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1948-1949 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia 7 19 * -- 19 * -- -- -- -- -- --

Czechoslovakia WEC-A -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1949-1950 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1950-1951 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1951-1952 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1952-1953 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1953-1954 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 15 30 * -- 30 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1954-1955 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1955-1956 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1956-1957 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 26 33 * -- 33 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1957-1958 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 22 24 -- 24 -- -- -- -- -- --

1958-1959 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 22 23 * -- 23 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1959-1960 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
1960-1961 DID NOT PLAY - SUSPENDED -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
1961-1962 DID NOT PLAY - SUSPENDED -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
1962-1963 DID NOT PLAY - SUSPENDED -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1963-1964 Praha [CKD] Czechoslovakia-3 5 11 -- 11 -- 4 9 * -- 9 * --

1964-1965 Praha [CKD] Czechoslovakia-3 26 25 -- 25 -- 1 1 -- 1 --

Totals 132 192 0 192 0 5 10 0 10 0

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2008, 04:34 PM
  #25
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
This is what I have, but it is probably nothing new.

Season Team League No. GP G A P PIM GP G A P PIM


1943-1944 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia 5 10 * -- 10 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1944-1945 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1945-1946 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1946-1947 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia 4 17 * -- 17 * -- -- -- -- -- --

Czechoslovakia WEC-A -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1947-1948 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Czechoslovakia Olympics -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1948-1949 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia 7 19 * -- 19 * -- -- -- -- -- --

Czechoslovakia WEC-A -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1949-1950 LTC Praha Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1950-1951 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1951-1952 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1952-1953 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1953-1954 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 15 30 * -- 30 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1954-1955 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1955-1956 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1956-1957 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 26 33 * -- 33 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1957-1958 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 22 24 -- 24 -- -- -- -- -- --

1958-1959 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia 22 23 * -- 23 * -- -- -- -- -- --

1959-1960 Spartak Sokolovo Czechoslovakia -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
1960-1961 DID NOT PLAY - SUSPENDED -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
1961-1962 DID NOT PLAY - SUSPENDED -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
1962-1963 DID NOT PLAY - SUSPENDED -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

1963-1964 Praha [CKD] Czechoslovakia-3 5 11 -- 11 -- 4 9 * -- 9 * --

1964-1965 Praha [CKD] Czechoslovakia-3 26 25 -- 25 -- 1 1 -- 1 --

Totals 132 192 0 192 0 5 10 0 10 0
Zabrodsky's competition level is under the same type of microscope as Bobrov and Baker's.

His international accomplishments were during an era of international hockey that was quite tame. The big red Machine was not even up and running at this point.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.