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07-26-2008, 07:58 AM
  #1
Whitesnake
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Bouchard's contract vs Plekanec

What do you all think about that contract? Approximately 4 millions per year for 5 years. Seems fair to me especially that it's for 5 years and Bouchard should just improve. Not his greatest fan but he's a fine hockey player.

What are the implications as far as Plekanec's next contract? Is every party going to use that as a basis of discussion. Is that fair to think that Gainey will wait to see how Plekanec will do this year before discussing anything? Can Plekanec really asked for that much money?


http://ww3.startribune.com/blogs/wil...ard-re-signed/

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07-26-2008, 08:02 AM
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C-Saku Koivu MTL
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Alot will depends on this season. I think he is better than Bouchard and you also have to facter in the taxes. Players want more money in MTL because of it. I think he could get around 5 per but hopefully we can have him closer to 4 than 5.

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07-26-2008, 08:27 AM
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I'm not sure that Plecky will get much more then A. Kosty. So $4MM range I think is where it would be at. I just can't believe salaries have gone up so high that Plecks will probably get $4MM +, not that he's not a good player. I guess we'll see.

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07-26-2008, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Is that fair to think that Gainey will wait to see how Plekanec will do this year before discussing anything? Can Plekanec really asked for that much money?
BG would be wise to wait until the end of the year to sign Plekanec. See if he's able to repeat his performance from last year (and improve in the playoffs). If so, then yeah, I think it's reasonable for Plekanec to ask for a contract similar to PM Bouchard's.

I'd be weary of signing him to extension, since there's a chance he'll regress this year if he's not seeing as many minutes, or not playing on a line with Kovalev.

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07-26-2008, 08:40 AM
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Marc the Habs Fan
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That's a great contract for Minny, he had one more year left before UFA status (same thing as Pleks next summer) so they got FOUR UFA years at a good price. I really don't understand how Bouchard signs for less than Lupul while giving up more UFA years.

To lock up Pleks for 4-5 years, I'd definitely give him in the range of 4-4.5 M. I have him pencilled in for 4.5 M starting in 2009-10 right now. That's basically ''good value for a 2nd line center money'' at this point and I am convinced Plekanec is going to at least be that for a long time.

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07-26-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
That's a great contract for Minny, he had one more year left before UFA status (same thing as Pleks next summer) so they got FOUR UFA years at a good price.

To lock up Pleks for 4-5 years, I'd definitely give him in the range of 4-4.5 M. I have him pencilled in for 4.5 M starting in 2009-10 right now. That's basically ''good value for a 2nd line center money'' at this point and I am convinced Plekanec is going to at least be that for a long time.
You mean RFA right?
I agree on the numbers for Plekanec next contract...

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07-26-2008, 08:50 AM
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Marc the Habs Fan
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Bouchard was slated to become a UFA next summer as he already has 6 accrued seasons. Check that previous entry in the blog Whitesnake quoted. Remember, he played a full season at age 18.

Next summer, Plekanec will be a year away from UFA status and a RFA, just like Bouchard this summer.

Man, this contract is really a good one for Minnesota compared to the Lupul debacle of a contract in Philly. Lupul only gave Philly three UFA years but got 4.25 M per and IMO, Bouchard is a better player now and probably going forward too.

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07-26-2008, 09:02 AM
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He signed for less than Lupul because we all know Lupul is an awesome 20 goals scorer in the NHL.

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07-26-2008, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
What do you all think about that contract? Approximately 4 millions per year for 5 years. Seems fair to me especially that it's for 5 years and Bouchard should just improve. Not his greatest fan but he's a fine hockey player.

What are the implications as far as Plekanec's next contract? Is every party going to use that as a basis of discussion. Is that fair to think that Gainey will wait to see how Plekanec will do this year before discussing anything? Can Plekanec really asked for that much money?


http://ww3.startribune.com/blogs/wil...ard-re-signed/
he can ask for more than that.

being the #1 center on a conference winning team, expect him to ask at least 5m.

to me .... plekanec>bouchard.

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07-26-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
he can ask for more than that.

being the #1 center on a conference winning team, expect him to ask at least 5m.

to me .... plekanec>bouchard.
Except he didn't win the conference...

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07-26-2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
Except he didn't win the conference...
I was obviously talking about the season...

contracts are based on seasons, not playoffs...

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07-26-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
I was obviously talking about the season...

contracts are based on seasons, not playoffs...
Big bonuses will come for good playoffs. Playoff performances are much more important. If we were to win the cup and Plekanec finished with PPG, he'll get a lot more than if we exit the first round and he has 3 points in 7 games.

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07-26-2008, 09:53 AM
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PLEKANEC = DEREK ROY = PM BOUCHARD = approx 4 - 4.5 M$

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07-26-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
to me .... plekanec>bouchard.
How so? PMB has been a consistent 60 point producer. Plekanec has had one 60 plus season and has greatly benefited from his linemates. He's a better compliment player than PMB maybe, but Bouchard is someone who will produce with anyone. In terms of potential I think PMB has a higher ceiling. Right now both are at the very least equal (but I'd keep Pleks).

Having said that, I would trade Pleks for Mikko Koivu

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07-26-2008, 10:21 AM
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YMCMBeaulieu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
I was obviously talking about the season...

contracts are based on seasons, not playoffs...
Ryan Malone

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07-26-2008, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSAF HABS AWISS View Post
PLEKANEC = DEREK ROY = PM BOUCHARD = approx 4 - 4.5 M$
exactly, all 3 of these guys are in the same league with what they bring to their teams

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07-26-2008, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
How so? PMB has been a consistent 60 point producer.
I think you can actually hold that against Bouchard. He hasn't progressed from his age 21 to 23 seasons, which has to be a concern. Whereas Plekanec has taken leaps forward in his last two seasons, both times progressing much more than anticipated. If he improves again this season, I'd say his ceiling is higher than PMB's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Plekanec has had one 60 plus season and has greatly benefited from his linemates.
I agree that Plek was not the one driving Montreal's PP. However, I believe he's worth paying good money for his even strength production, the best on the team (2.35pts/60min). I don't see any reason why he and AKost can't continue to improve together.

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07-26-2008, 11:23 AM
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Good thread. Insightful comparison in order to envision our cap for next season. And since Pleks and Higgins got similar contracts, does this imply that Higgins should also get 4-4.5M?

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07-26-2008, 11:36 AM
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Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I agree that Plek was not the one driving Montreal's PP. However, I believe he's worth paying good money for his even strength production, the best on the team (2.35pts/60min). I don't see any reason why he and AKost can't continue to improve together.
I didn't say otherwise. I was saying that at this point, both Pleks and PMB are very equal to me. I think that Pleks is a much more complimentary player, which works out great for us. Pleks has the smarts to finish plays, PMB has the skills to carry them out. Pleks works much better for us.

That's why I said I'd love Mikko. He's another guy with great smarts who can finish plays (knows where to be).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarto View Post


Good thread. Insightful comparison in order to envision our cap for next season. And since Pleks and Higgins got similar contracts, does this imply that Higgins should also get 4-4.5M?
Higgins shouldn't get much more than A.Kost imo. Anything over 4mil is unjustified imo.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-26-2008 at 08:15 PM.
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07-26-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
How so? PMB has been a consistent 60 point producer. Plekanec has had one 60 plus season and has greatly benefited from his linemates. He's a better compliment player than PMB maybe, but Bouchard is someone who will produce with anyone. In terms of potential I think PMB has a higher ceiling. Right now both are at the very least equal (but I'd keep Pleks).

Having said that, I would trade Pleks for Mikko Koivu
1rst of all, PMB had 1 60 pts season last year... (63 pts), he had 57 and 59 pts but not 60pts

defensively, I see plekanec as a better player. I also think that he is a better goalscorer than PMB.

Pmb: 5 seasons , 61 G ... progression; 17G, to 20G, to 13G. Plek: 3 Seasons: 58 G . progression from 9G to 20G to 29G .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Plekanec has had one 60 plus season[/B] and has greatly benefited from his linemates.
How so? samsonov and kovalev played terrible 2 years ago. Last year, he finally had wingers who played up to the expectations... and because of that, you're telling me that he ''benefited'' from them... I remember plekanec being our best player during his second year... he remained with +10 while his linemates were - 8 and -18. and was the only one playing PK in the 3. Had less pp time, and ended up with 20 goals. and few assits because his linemates played like crap.

I think we are underestimating the impact plekanec had on our team during the last 2 years here...

PMB is a great player... no doubt about it... but to me, plek is more valuable, and more promissing, that's all.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 07-26-2008 at 11:53 AM.
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07-26-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
Ryan Malone
ryan malone had a great season.

And was ufa, and signed with a different team...

yes he had great playoffs... but he was solid all year long...

moreover , ... once a player reaches the market... it's a useless example.


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07-26-2008, 11:46 AM
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Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I think you can actually hold that against Bouchard. He hasn't progressed from his age 21 to 23 seasons, which has to be a concern. Whereas Plekanec has taken leaps forward in his last two seasons, both times progressing much more than anticipated. If he improves again this season, I'd say his ceiling is higher than PMB's.
Though as far as giving a long-term contract, you wouldn't have any problem giving it to a guy who's been consistant instead of giving that to a guy who might have a career year but still you wouldn't be sure what to expect (not saying it's Pleks case...)

PMB is a poor man's Ribeiro. If he becomes stronger (key word here...) and play with better linemates and a better system, he would have some 80-points season.

He needs to upgrade it a notch though for sure.

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07-26-2008, 11:51 AM
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Oh would you people ****ing stop it.

- We signed Markov under market value
- We signed Kostitsyn under market value
- We signed Koivu under market value
- We signed Kovalev under market value
etc.

Chances are, no matter how much money Bouchard got, Plekanec will get under what a Free Agent 70pt player would get. Why? Because thats how Gainey rolls.

My predictions:
Komisarek: $5M
Higgins: $3.5M
Plekanec: $4.5M

Can't see how I'll be wrong with that. There is more precedent for Gainey signing for less than signing for more.

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07-26-2008, 11:57 AM
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Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Oh would you people ****ing stop it.

- We signed Markov under market value
- We signed Kostitsyn under market value
- We signed Koivu under market value
- We signed Kovalev under market value
etc.

Chances are, no matter how much money Bouchard got, Plekanec will get under what a Free Agent 70pt player would get. Why? Because thats how Gainey rolls.

My predictions:
Komisarek: $5M
Higgins: $3.5M
Plekanec: $4.5M

Can't see how I'll be wrong with that. There is more precedent for Gainey signing for less than signing for more.
Everybody you mentioned are under market value AFTER all of these UFA's signing we saw this year except Kostitsyn, though Kosty had one 1 great season to work with and see what he got. They are under RIGHT NOW, they weren't that much under at the time. And Hamrlik was really OVER at the time he signed.

As far as the numbers you're giving, it will be around it sure, you're not too far from the reality. Thing is, it will be related to what PMB just got if you're giving Pleks a 4.5. 'Cause PMB got 4 and has showed just a little bit more consistency, though it depends of this year for Pleks.

In the end, it's fine to see how Gainey rolls, but players are agents are still the leaders here. And as great Gainey his, UFA's or RFA's, he will overpay like all of of them 'cause that's the name of the game. Wasn't he ready to overpay for Brière and all of the others?

Now that we have to work with figures out of this world based on the past UFA market, tell me you won't be a little worried what guys like Tanguay, Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, Higgins and Plekanec will ask. That's the whole core right there....

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07-26-2008, 11:58 AM
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Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
How so? samsonov and kovalev played terrible 2 years ago. Last year, he finally had wingers who played up to the expectations... and because of that, you're telling me that he ''benefited'' from them...
Yes, he did benefit from them. Plekanec is a complimentary player. I don't understand why you're taking it as though that is a bad thing? There are many complimentary players who do quite well in the NHL. Prospal being an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great
I remember plekanec being our best player during his second year...
Pleks was our best player in 06-07? That's funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great
I think we are underestimating the impact plekanec had on our team for the last 2 years here...

PMB is a great player... no doubt about it... but to me, plek is more valuable, and more promissing, that's all.
Like I said and have been saying the entire time, Plekanec is much more valuable to us than PMB would be. He's the perfect complimentary player. He's not someone who needs to see a lot of the puck to produce. I can't say the same for PMB.

As far as forwards go Plekanec is one of our top 3 most valuable. He's someone with the smarts to play with anyone on the team. Guys like him are nearly or perhaps just as important as your star players imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
My predictions:
Komisarek: $5M
Higgins: $3.5M
Plekanec: $4.5M

Can't see how I'll be wrong with that. There is more precedent for Gainey signing for less than signing for more.
Those are my predictions as well. But I am hoping for Komi to be at 4-4.5m.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-26-2008 at 08:17 PM.
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