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Old
07-28-2008, 08:48 PM
  #26
Reaper45
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[QUOTE=Leaf Fever;15014207]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Couple reasons why I don't think this works.

LA is still in a rebuild mode. They are going to keep all their picks for the forseeable future, unless it is used to make a play at a franchise type player.

If LA finishes in the bottom 10 of the league (which they probably will do), Toronto essentially gives up Kubina for nothing until 2010. That doesn't help the Leafs win games now, all it does is show that they are willing to tank for a 2nd first round pick, and a high 1st rounder of their own.



I understand your POV from your first point. But for the second, the leafs are in rebuilding mode as well (mind you not as much as LA), and also, the leafs don't want to win now.

I only proposed this trade so that the leafs could get a first round pick for Kubina, it gets LA closer to the salary cap floor, and it still gives LA a shot for Taveras or Hedman.
The Kings don't need help getting to the salary cap floor.

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Old
07-28-2008, 08:54 PM
  #27
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[QUOTE=Leaf Fever;15014207]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I understand your POV from your first point. But for the second, the leafs are in rebuilding mode as well (mind you not as much as LA), and also, the leafs don't want to win now.

I only proposed this trade so that the leafs could get a first round pick for Kubina, it gets LA closer to the salary cap floor, and it still gives LA a shot for Taveras or Hedman.
If LA is in more of a rebuilding mode, why would they trade away a 1st?

Read, the millions of other posts regarding LA not needing to make a trade to reach the cap floor.

So LA trades a 1st rd pick for a guy that will help them, "still get a shot at Taveras or Hedman?" I'd have to think they'll hold on to all of their 1st, unless (like JTG32005 said) it was to land a franchise type player.

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Old
07-28-2008, 09:09 PM
  #28
Leaf Fever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Couple reasons why I don't think this works.

LA is still in a rebuild mode. They are going to keep all their picks for the forseeable future, unless it is used to make a play at a franchise type player.

If LA finishes in the bottom 10 of the league (which they probably will do), Toronto essentially gives up Kubina for nothing until 2010. That doesn't help the Leafs win games now, all it does is show that they are willing to tank for a 2nd first round pick, and a high 1st rounder of their own.



So you are saying that teams need to overpay for your first round pick? I think you have it backwards. To get any of the guys mentioned above you'll need to add to your first. Especially with Malkin. Sure things > prospects
[QUOTE=kingsfann805;15014495]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Fever View Post

If LA is in more of a rebuilding mode, why would they trade away a 1st?

Read, the millions of other posts regarding LA not needing to make a trade to reach the cap floor.

So LA trades a 1st rd pick for a guy that will help them, "still get a shot at Taveras or Hedman?" I'd have to think they'll hold on to all of their 1st, unless (like JTG32005 said) it was to land a franchise type player.
Fair enough.

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Old
07-29-2008, 02:50 PM
  #29
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howboutyadont?

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Old
07-29-2008, 03:09 PM
  #30
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how about Calgary's 2nd, so Lombardi can still get off to the 1st pick in the 2nd round, and a 2nd tier prospect, like Moller.

To LA
Kubina

To TOR
CAL 2nd round pick
Moller

Getting Hedman or Tavares will make up for the loss of Moller and that pick.

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Old
07-29-2008, 03:19 PM
  #31
Ziggy Stardust
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Kings aren't trading Moller. And how does adding an upgrade on the blueline help LA's chances of tanking to end up with the #1 pick? Makes no sense at all.

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Old
07-29-2008, 03:21 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_blueandwhite View Post
how about Calgary's 2nd, so Lombardi can still get off to the 1st pick in the 2nd round, and a 2nd tier prospect, like Moller.

To LA
Kubina

To TOR
CAL 2nd round pick
Moller

Getting Hedman or Tavares will make up for the loss of Moller and that pick.
Kings are very high on Moller. He's not going anywhere.

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Old
07-29-2008, 03:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Everything they have said so far contradicts that.
Everything this team has said slightly hints that they are probably going to lose a lot of games. Ron Wilson's "two year plan" reaffirms that.

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Old
08-01-2008, 11:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Fever View Post
To LA: Pavel Kubina

To TO: 1st 09 (Top 10 protected) if LA finishes bottom 10 then it moves to
1st 10 (Top 7 protected) if LA finishes bottom 7 it moves to
1st 11 (Unprotected)
Kubina will retire as a Leaf.

When he re-signs in 2010 he'll give them a hometown discount and decline a raise, playing for his current $5,000,000.00 per season.

His Number will be retired and his jersey will be hung between the pictures of Harold Ballard and JFJ.

They will rename the ACC to Pavel Kubina Center.

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Old
08-01-2008, 11:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
Kings are on the clock and are already choosing between Tavares and Hedman. We trade a chance to get one of two generational talents and up to 8 franchise players for a guy who has busted after getting a monstrous deal? I wouldn't do that trade for Kubina of 2 years ago. Not even close.
Busted? He just had the best season of his career.

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Old
08-01-2008, 11:49 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelVecchio View Post
Kubina will retire as a Leaf.

When he re-signs in 2010 he'll give them a hometown discount and decline a raise, playing for his current $5,000,000.00 per season.

His Number will be retired and his jersey will be hung between the pictures of Harold Ballard and JFJ.

They will rename the ACC to Pavel Kubina Center.
You bored or something?

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Old
08-02-2008, 09:45 AM
  #37
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When I first read it, I thought it said the next 3 first round picks..

Kubina for a first would be fine with me. Not a bad deal but L.A. does have some young D so not sure if they'd do it.

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Old
08-02-2008, 11:22 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Fever View Post
To LA: Pavel Kubina

To TO: 1st 09 (Top 10 protected) if LA finishes bottom 10 then it moves to
1st 10 (Top 7 protected) if LA finishes bottom 7 it moves to
1st 11 (Unprotected)
your really dreaming if you think you culd half of that for Kubina and his contract.

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Old
08-02-2008, 03:19 PM
  #39
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Might as well put this in...as it sounds about as fair as the other two...

LA: Kubina

TOR: Zeiler and a 6th or 7th round pick in 2010

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Old
08-02-2008, 04:33 PM
  #40
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Anyone else feel like the "prospect" craze is getting out of hand.

Kubina is a legit top 4 everyday defensemen, would be #1 on some teams.

How often do these picks turn into top 4 defensemen? No one in their right mind would have Kubina lower than 3-4 on ANY team's defensive depth chart (including DET I would argue).

Him, as well as McCabe, are worth more than they are getting credit for.

40 points and a +5 is more than respectable on a team like Toronto, especially considering he played against the top lines.

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Old
08-03-2008, 10:06 PM
  #41
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lol @ Zeiler proposal.

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Old
08-03-2008, 11:05 PM
  #42
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Are you kidding me...take away the 1st rounder and maybe u get a deal.

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Old
08-04-2008, 10:46 AM
  #43
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So Kubina for nothing is a fair deal? Pass me whatever you are on.

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Old
08-04-2008, 11:14 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBoy17 View Post
Anyone else feel like the "prospect" craze is getting out of hand.

Kubina is a legit top 4 everyday defensemen, would be #1 on some teams.

How often do these picks turn into top 4 defensemen? No one in their right mind would have Kubina lower than 3-4 on ANY team's defensive depth chart (including DET I would argue).

Him, as well as McCabe, are worth more than they are getting credit for.

40 points and a +5 is more than respectable on a team like Toronto, especially considering he played against the top lines.
Exactly correct.

Kubina was playing top pairing with Kaberle all season long and is a great 2 way defenceman who is solid in all situations.

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08-04-2008, 11:48 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBoy17 View Post
Anyone else feel like the "prospect" craze is getting out of hand.

Kubina is a legit top 4 everyday defensemen, would be #1 on some teams.

How often do these picks turn into top 4 defensemen? No one in their right mind would have Kubina lower than 3-4 on ANY team's defensive depth chart (including DET I would argue).

Him, as well as McCabe, are worth more than they are getting credit for.

40 points and a +5 is more than respectable on a team like Toronto, especially considering he played against the top lines.

To me it's this Kubina crarze thats getting out of hand. Kubina is a fine defensemen who on a good team is a 2nd paring problem, yet he is overpaid @ 5 mil for the next 2 years. Some Leaf fans however seem to think that if he's packaged w/ a decent prospect he's worth 1st round picks, multiple top level prospects, or even stars in the NHL.

To me there are a lot of guys similar to Kubina. How is D. Markov so different then him, and with Markov all you have to do is pay him (prob. less than 5 mil)? Maybe if they wait to the trading deadline and Kubina is putting up good numbers they can get a crazy haul for him. However 1, 2 months before the season starts I'd be happy a 2nd if I was the Leafs.

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Old
08-04-2008, 11:52 AM
  #46
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LOL, whats it matter to the kings anyways? Under the cap, theres no way they'll be able to keep Frolov, POS, Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Johnson, Hickey, Bernier, AND whoever you draft next year under contract long term? Why not trade away that first for a player that might start helping the team now? Not saying Kubina for LA first is fair but some fans are just being ridiculous here, the leafs might get an 8th overall pick (at best) in two years...wow. I guarantee you won't be able to keep that first round pick (the prospect) after all the players i mentioned before are signed.

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Old
08-04-2008, 12:16 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by goleafs86 View Post
LOL, whats it matter to the kings anyways? Under the cap, theres no way they'll be able to keep Frolov, POS, Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Johnson, Hickey, Bernier, AND whoever you draft next year under contract long term? Why not trade away that first for a player that might start helping the team now? Not saying Kubina for LA first is fair but some fans are just being ridiculous here, the leafs might get an 8th overall pick (at best) in two years...wow. I guarantee you won't be able to keep that first round pick (the prospect) after all the players i mentioned before are signed.
Ah, you mean similar to how Pittsburg hasn't been able to hold onto Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Whitney, Orpik, Letang, and Fleury.

Thanks for the concern, but we'll take our chances.

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Old
08-04-2008, 12:21 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goleafs86 View Post
LOL, whats it matter to the kings anyways? Under the cap, theres no way they'll be able to keep Frolov, POS, Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Johnson, Hickey, Bernier, AND whoever you draft next year under contract long term? Why not trade away that first for a player that might start helping the team now? Not saying Kubina for LA first is fair but some fans are just being ridiculous here, the leafs might get an 8th overall pick (at best) in two years...wow. I guarantee you won't be able to keep that first round pick (the prospect) after all the players i mentioned before are signed.
prospect envy...

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Old
08-04-2008, 02:25 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpooh View Post
To me it's this Kubina crarze thats getting out of hand. Kubina is a fine defensemen who on a good team is a 2nd paring problem, yet he is overpaid @ 5 mil for the next 2 years. Some Leaf fans however seem to think that if he's packaged w/ a decent prospect he's worth 1st round picks, multiple top level prospects, or even stars in the NHL.

To me there are a lot of guys similar to Kubina. How is D. Markov so different then him, and with Markov all you have to do is pay him (prob. less than 5 mil)? Maybe if they wait to the trading deadline and Kubina is putting up good numbers they can get a crazy haul for him. However 1, 2 months before the season starts I'd be happy a 2nd if I was the Leafs.
Dumb post, speculating how much D. Markov will get doesn't make your post make anymore sense. Kubina needs to be traded now before his NTC kicks in on August 15th. How is a 2nd good value when you consider what Dan Boyle got. Don't get me wrong, I think Boyle deserves better value than Kubina, but anything less than a 1st or good prospect is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goleafs86 View Post
LOL, whats it matter to the kings anyways? Under the cap, theres no way they'll be able to keep Frolov, POS, Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Johnson, Hickey, Bernier, AND whoever you draft next year under contract long term? Why not trade away that first for a player that might start helping the team now? Not saying Kubina for LA first is fair but some fans are just being ridiculous here, the leafs might get an 8th overall pick (at best) in two years...wow. I guarantee you won't be able to keep that first round pick (the prospect) after all the players i mentioned before are signed.
Dumber post, LA has plenty of time to make sure their cap is in order.

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Old
08-04-2008, 02:43 PM
  #50
tony d
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This isn't a bad deal per se but for it to really work Toronto would have to throw in a prospect or a mid round draft pick.

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