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Old
07-30-2008, 09:19 AM
  #51
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Old
07-30-2008, 10:15 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
The Leafs are NOT unloading McCabe because of his salary or cap hit, Toronto does NOT have any cap problems and obvioulsy has NO budget problems.

The only reason that Fletcher is trying to peddle McCabe is it is high time for this team to go in a different direction. Leafs have missed the play-offs for 3 years in a row (a team record btw) and ALL the high priced help was on the move at the trade deadline (Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, Kubina and even Kaberle).

The Leafs will have a new look next year with as many as 10 new players plus a new coaching staff. That is a significant turn-over. McCabe does NOT fit into the new look Leafs.

McCabe at 4.15 million even with a 5.75 million cap hit is an absolute bargain !!! (and I am not even a huge McCabe fan)
Oh now I understand. I wish the Canucks could sign a true top four defenseman that cheap.

You are right. What a bargain. McCabe, as you point out, is obviously better than anyone the Canucks have. The Canucks defense is made up of players who can't even have a cap hit over $3.75 million per so they must not be very good hockey players compared to those on the Leafs. Isn't it true that you get what you pay for?

Based on some of the Leaf posters here, our Canucks defense must be one of the weakest defenses in the league using the Leaf's defense as a standard. Last season we even used Weaver and McIver in our top 4 because some of our other soft, injury prone defensemen like Bieksa, Ohlund & Krajicek wouldn't play hurt. You obviously wouldn't want any of our defensemen playing for an elite team like the Leafs and especially not wimps like Ohlund or Salo and those two are the best Vancouver has got. Toronto represents to the world as to just what hockey is about doesn't it?

Why, if the Canucks offered Luongo and three first round picks for McCabe alone, I could see the Leaf's GM laughing his head off while slamming down the phone on Gillis. You've been on this board for years and I still see you as insightful and knowlegeable about hockey as ever.


Last edited by Hi-wayman: 07-30-2008 at 10:23 AM.
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Old
07-30-2008, 10:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Oh now I understand. I wish the Canucks could sign a true top four defenseman that cheap.

You are right. What a bargain. McCabe, as you point out, is obviously better than anyone the Canucks have. The Canucks defense is made up of players who can't even have a cap hit over $3.75 million per so they must not be very good hockey players compared to those on the Leafs. Isn't it true that you get what you pay for?

Based on some of the Leaf posters here, our Canucks defense must be one of the weakest defenses in the league using the Leaf's defense as a standard. Last season we even used Weaver and McIver in our top 4 because some of our other soft, injury prone defensemen like Bieksa, Ohlund & Krajicek wouldn't play hurt. You obviously wouldn't want any of our defensemen playing for an elite team like the Leafs and especially not wimps like Ohlund or Salo and those two are the best Vancouver has got. Toronto represents to the world as to just what hockey is about doesn't it?

Why, if the Canucks offered Luongo and three first round picks for McCabe alone, I could see the Leaf's GM laughing his head off while slamming down the phone on Gillis. You've been on this board for years and I still see you as insightful and knowlegeable about hockey as ever.
Wow what did I do to deserve that cheap-shot ????? I do not once opine on any Vancouver player I was merely trying to point out why Toronto would want to part with McCabe and why I thought he was a bargain for any team acquiring him with the exception of the cap hit. No need for this kind of reply !!!!

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Old
07-30-2008, 10:50 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
Wow what did I do to deserve that cheap-shot ????? I do not once opine on any Vancouver player I was merely trying to point out why Toronto would want to part with McCabe and why I thought he was a bargain for any team acquiring him with the exception of the cap hit. No need for this kind of reply !!!!
Yeah, I went overboard so I appologise, but no, few other teams would consider McCabe a bargain at $4.15 mil/yr let alone $5.75 mil/yr. Especially not the Canucks who have Mitchell, Ohlund & Salo at $3.5 mil/yr cap hit, Bieksa at $3.75 mil and Edler at $550K.

McCabe is a good player when used properly. He was a Canuck once remember. But he can cause problems defensively just as easily as he can be a good offensive defenseman. We also had Jovo and he was the same type. Salo also is great on the power play, has a hard, fast shot, but is also very good defensively. For a team looking for an all round defenseman, not a power play/offensive specialist, Salo is the better bargain. As for the Canucks needing an offensive & power play specialist that forgets he's also supposed to play in his own end too, the Canucks still have the rights to Kirill Koltsov & he'd leave the RSL for far less money than McCabe would cost us.

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Old
07-30-2008, 11:04 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by westcoast-rumourmill View Post
Bryan McCabe / Nik Antropov / Jiri Tlusty

for

Sammy Salo / Taylor Pyatt / Jeff Cowan / Matt Pettinger & 5th rounder



I just really see no need for any of those Canucks to be here for the 08/09 season. I think this would be a trade the leafs would make.

criticize away!!!!
I just really see no need for any of those Canucks to be in Toronto, either. Absolute joke of a proposal.

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Old
07-30-2008, 11:55 AM
  #56
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As a Canucks fan who happens to be a big Edler fan (I even have that jersey) lets not get ridiculous. Edler may be a stellar young defenceman but to say he's better than McCabe is laughable. Maybe in a few years, or even next year, but right now it's McCabe.....contracts aside...
Ask any GM....money aside, which defensemen he'd rather have? Why do teams keeping asking the Canucks for Edler? Why don't teams ask TO for McCabe? And don't say money because there are quite a few teams way under the cap, and once Edler's contract is up it will be pay day for him.

The bottom line is that Edler's current all around defensive play + his upside = far more worth than the 1 atribute McCabe has....his shot.

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07-30-2008, 12:01 PM
  #57
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Due to his contract, Bryan McCabe isn't a great trading asset. In reality, McCabe, (Based on playing ability) >>> Salo.

With Salo out of the picture, Antropov and Tlusty are the next two best players in this deal.

Taylor Pyatt...borderline 2nd liner. Matt Pettinger, 3rd/4th line, Jeff Cowan = garbage and 5th is, well, a 5th.


Though, because of the contract of McCabe, it brings the value of each other player up and helps Toronto finish last.

Based purely on talent, I'd say a big hell no from Toronto.

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Old
07-30-2008, 01:07 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Due to his contract, Bryan McCabe isn't a great trading asset. In reality, McCabe, (Based on playing ability) >>> Salo.

With Salo out of the picture, Antropov and Tlusty are the next two best players in this deal.

Taylor Pyatt...borderline 2nd liner. Matt Pettinger, 3rd/4th line, Jeff Cowan = garbage and 5th is, well, a 5th.


Though, because of the contract of McCabe, it brings the value of each other player up and helps Toronto finish last.

Based purely on talent, I'd say a big hell no from Toronto.
I agree with your Taylor Pyatt analysis. I don't even think he's a borderline 2nd liner. He's a 3rd liner on 80% of the teams in the league. Jeff Cowan is just garbage. He played well when 1st aquired by Vancouver, but he really doesn't have much to offer.

Salo is hugely underated though. Before he got injured at the last Olympics, most had him as the best defensemen of the Olympics. He was that good. This guy, when healthy, really does it all. He is so solid in his own end, makes very wise decisions, and can make that 1st all important pass out of his own end. You rarely hear an announcer call a mistake on this guy. He's a decent powerplay guy and will get you 10-15 goals and 35-40 points a season. His biggest knock is his health. If he could be heatlhy for an entire season he'd be a 15-18 goal and 45 point guy.

Pettinger is another intruiging player. While he did not play well last season, he did have 20 goals in only 71 games in 05/06 and 16 goals in only 64 games in 06/07. The guy really does have excellent wheels and decent size. Unfortunately, he'll be 28 in October and is more of a suspect than a prospect.

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Old
07-30-2008, 01:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Due to his contract, Bryan McCabe isn't a great trading asset. In reality, McCabe, (Based on playing ability) >>> Salo.

With Salo out of the picture, Antropov and Tlusty are the next two best players in this deal.

Taylor Pyatt...borderline 2nd liner. Matt Pettinger, 3rd/4th line, Jeff Cowan = garbage and 5th is, well, a 5th.


Though, because of the contract of McCabe, it brings the value of each other player up and helps Toronto finish last.

Based purely on talent, I'd say a big hell no from Toronto.
Do you know McCabe's contract details?

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Old
07-30-2008, 02:39 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
Ask any GM....money aside, which defensemen he'd rather have? Why do teams keeping asking the Canucks for Edler? Why don't teams ask TO for McCabe? And don't say money because there are quite a few teams way under the cap, and once Edler's contract is up it will be pay day for him.

The bottom line is that Edler's current all around defensive play + his upside = far more worth than the 1 atribute McCabe has....his shot.
Well I never mentioned the worth of either player, only who is better at the moment. I agree that Edler has more value (due to his age,level of play so far and potential...plus a booming shot of his own,) but if McCabe's contract was more reasonable then undoubtedly he would bring in more. The reason being that he already is something proven and if (yeah, I know) he were at a better price (or maybe just less a NMC) people would be all over him.

The point I was trying to make before was that saying a sophmore is better than a veteran who has scored 148 pts since the lockout and being a +- 0 (on the LEAFS!!!)
is ridiculos, not matter what his potential may be.

When/if Edler reaches his potential I think he will bring great passing and a giant shot combined with solid, sound, and strong defense. That player will be better than McCabe, but how long until he's gained the experience to do that nightly?

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Old
07-30-2008, 07:18 PM
  #61
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Ok, McCabe might not be overated, but he certainly is not a steal! Sure he puts up points, but he is definitely not worth the 5.75m cap hit on the Leafs roster. If he is such a steal, why would the leafs contemplate asking him to stay home for training camp?
He seems to be the guy they wish to move. They will not ask him to stay home. These are rumors and nothing more. The Leafs simply need to move one of the top 3 dmen and he's apparently who they would like to move. Kubina would have been the one to go but Wilson really likes him so there trying to move McCabe instead.

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07-30-2008, 07:29 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
After Sept 15th McCabes salary is 4.15 million per year for 2 more years. He is a steal at that price given what Redden is getting albiet his cap hit is 5.75 million.
id take redden over mccabe any day

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07-30-2008, 08:41 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by westcoast-rumourmill View Post
Bryan McCabe / Nik Antropov / Jiri Tlusty

for

Sammy Salo / Taylor Pyatt / Jeff Cowan / Matt Pettinger & 5th rounder



I just really see no need for any of those Canucks to be here for the 08/09 season. I think this would be a trade the leafs would make.

criticize away!!!!
BRUTAL!!!! GO HOME AND NEVER MAKE A PROPOSAL INVOLVING THE LEAFS EVER AGAIN!!! please.

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Old
07-30-2008, 09:39 PM
  #64
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id take redden over mccabe any day


I guess you didn't watch many Sens games...

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07-31-2008, 01:10 AM
  #65
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this is the worst thread i've ever read

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Old
07-31-2008, 02:11 AM
  #66
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id take redden over mccabe any day
Without a question.

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07-31-2008, 02:12 AM
  #67
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I absolutly hate the leafs, but Van City wins this one hands down.

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07-31-2008, 02:40 AM
  #68
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Lmao at the leaf fans who think McCabe is an absolutely bargain at 4.whatever million or even worse at 5.75 or whatever the number was. Absolutely ridiculous.

McCabe is either really overrated (by pretty much all the people defending him in this thread-- eg: Blatantly obvious leaf fan- "I'm not really a McCabe fan so my opinion is objective, but McCabe is an absolute bargain etc etc.") or underrated by the people who think he's a complete trash player who doesn't deserve any sort of a decent role on a hockey team. There doesn't seem to be ANY in between with this guy.

McCabe is a decent-good defensemen who has some really good qualities as well as some pretty bad ones, but is not a great one by ANY stretch of the imagination.

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Old
08-01-2008, 12:31 PM
  #69
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Ok, McCabe might not be overated, but he certainly is not a steal! Sure he puts up points, but he is definitely not worth the 5.75m cap hit on the Leafs roster. If he is such a steal, why would the leafs contemplate asking him to stay home for training camp?
the Leafs arent, that was a fool reporter who suggested it, and was laughed at by Fletcher when it was suggested to him.

...the only reason the Leafs would want to trade him is to change the face of the team, since he's been one of the key players since he was aquired. ...and he averages about 27 mins/game ...far more than the 20 someone posted

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Old
08-01-2008, 01:42 PM
  #70
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Good lord.

Again:
McCabe is a Multiple time 15 go/50 point scorer.
He has been an olympian and has finished top 5 in norris voting as recent as 3 years ago.
He plays one of the highest min/game out of defensemen in the league and has done so since 2000.


Starting in september, his salary will be 4.15 million x 3. That puts him at the 35th highest in the league. That is almost HALF of brian Campbell, 2.5 million less than Dan Boyle.

Brian Campbell has had one good year where he scored 62 points and was a second team allstar, and has never even reached 50 points before. McCabe has had a season high of 68 points and has had 3 50 plus point seasons and has scored 15, 19,16,17. Campell has only made it to 10 once (12). McCabe is better defensively than campbell, bigger and scores more when his arm isnt broken in 3 places. He will be making half as much but he has no value?????

Hell look at boyle. The same age and have similar points and resumes over the past 5 years since boyle came into his own. McCabe has played much longer, is bigger, stronger and is every bit as defensively responsible as boyle. Boyle signed at 6.667 until he is like 38 is somehow worth Carle, Wishart, 1 4 but a comparable (i would argue better player) signed for 4.15 until he is 35 is worthless.

Right now McCabe's money payed out sits him at about 35th in salaries for defencemen with stalwarts like JM liles, Ron Hainsey, Mark Streit and Tom Gilbert. That contract has No value??????


Last edited by Krazy: 08-01-2008 at 02:28 PM.
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Old
08-01-2008, 02:30 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Good lord.

Again:
McCabe is a Multiple time 15 go/50 point scorer.
He has been an olympian and has finished top 5 in norris voting as recent as 3 years ago.
He plays one of the highest min/game out of defensemen in the league and has done so since 2000.


Starting in september, his salary will be 4.15 million x 3. That puts him at the 35th highest in the league. That is almost HALF of brian Campbell, 2.5 million less than Dan Boyle.

Brian Campbell has had one good year where he scored 62 points and was a second team allstar, and has never even reached 50 points before. McCabe has had a season high of 68 points and has had 3 50 plus point seasons and has scored 15, 19,16,17. Campell has only made it to 10 once (12). McCabe is better defensively than campbell, bigger and scores more when his arm isnt broken in 3 places. He will be making half as much but he has no value?????

Hell look at boyle. The same age and have similar points and resumes over the past 5 years since boyle came into his own. McCabe has played much longer, is bigger, stronger and is every bit as defensively responsible as boyle. Boyle signed at 6.667 until he is like 38 is somehow worth Carle, Wishart, 1 4 but a comparable (i would argue better player) signed for 4.15 until he is 35 is worthless.

Right now McCabe's money payed out sits him at about 35th in salaries for defencemen with stalwarts like JM liles, Ron Hainsey, Mark Streit and Tom Gilbert. That contract has No value??????
Comparing Campbell to McCabe is absolutely ridiculous. First lets start with the fact the Campbell doesn't score on his own net.....

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Old
08-01-2008, 02:34 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
Comparing Campbell to McCabe is absolutely ridiculous. First lets start with the fact the Campbell doesn't score on his own net.....
He just does his 360 move leading to giveaways in front of his own net. Backstrom scored into his own net....Backstrom for stajan!!!!!

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Old
08-01-2008, 02:47 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Good lord.

Again:
McCabe is a Multiple time 15 go/50 point scorer.
He has been an olympian and has finished top 5 in norris voting as recent as 3 years ago.
He plays one of the highest min/game out of defensemen in the league and has done so since 2000.
Rob Zamuner has been an Olympian too.

Oh and the one year McCabe finished top five in Norris voting was 2004 (which is not "as recent as three years ago" for the record), Adrian Aucoin was top five in Norris voting that year, too.


Quote:
Starting in september, his salary will be 4.15 million x 3. That puts him at the 35th highest in the league. That is almost HALF of brian Campbell, 2.5 million less than Dan Boyle.

Brian Campbell has had one good year where he scored 62 points and was a second team allstar, and has never even reached 50 points before. McCabe has had a season high of 68 points and has had 3 50 plus point seasons and has scored 15, 19,16,17. Campell has only made it to 10 once (12). McCabe is better defensively than campbell, bigger and scores more when his arm isnt broken in 3 places. He will be making half as much but he has no value?????

Hell look at boyle. The same age and have similar points and resumes over the past 5 years since boyle came into his own. McCabe has played much longer, is bigger, stronger and is every bit as defensively responsible as boyle. Boyle signed at 6.667 until he is like 38 is somehow worth Carle, Wishart, 1 4 but a comparable (i would argue better player) signed for 4.15 until he is 35 is worthless.

Right now McCabe's money payed out sits him at about 35th in salaries for defencemen with stalwarts like JM liles, Ron Hainsey, Mark Streit and Tom Gilbert. That contract has No value??????
That's all well and good, but the original point in this thread was that McCabe might have value to the Canucks.

The Canucks don't care what he's paid, they care what his cap hit is - they're not struggling to meet the cap floor while keeping costs down, they want to build the best team they can while staying under the ceiling.

Players who don't contribute anything that the Canucks are missing (grit from the defense or a shot from the point on the powerplay) who would be paid more than any other Canuck defender and have a cap hit significantly higher than even that are not a good way of doing this.

edit: The Canucks more than likely also won't be picking up any aging, overpaid defensemen who have long-term commitments tied to them - the three years left on McCabe's contract will almost certainly impede the Canucks ability to retain their own young players.

I don't see why this is so controversial?

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08-01-2008, 02:51 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Good lord.

Again:
McCabe is a Multiple time 15 go/50 point scorer.
He has been an olympian and has finished top 5 in norris voting as recent as 3 years ago.
He plays one of the highest min/game out of defensemen in the league and has done so since 2000.


Starting in september, his salary will be 4.15 million x 3. That puts him at the 35th highest in the league. That is almost HALF of brian Campbell, 2.5 million less than Dan Boyle.

Brian Campbell has had one good year where he scored 62 points and was a second team allstar, and has never even reached 50 points before. McCabe has had a season high of 68 points and has had 3 50 plus point seasons and has scored 15, 19,16,17. Campell has only made it to 10 once (12). McCabe is better defensively than campbell, bigger and scores more when his arm isnt broken in 3 places. He will be making half as much but he has no value?????

Hell look at boyle. The same age and have similar points and resumes over the past 5 years since boyle came into his own. McCabe has played much longer, is bigger, stronger and is every bit as defensively responsible as boyle. Boyle signed at 6.667 until he is like 38 is somehow worth Carle, Wishart, 1 4 but a comparable (i would argue better player) signed for 4.15 until he is 35 is worthless.

Right now McCabe's money payed out sits him at about 35th in salaries for defencemen with stalwarts like JM liles, Ron Hainsey, Mark Streit and Tom Gilbert. That contract has No value??????

I want to point out that saying McCabe is signed for 4.15 million until he is 35 is patently incorrect, as his cap hit is significantly higher, coming in at just under 6 (don't have the exact figure).

I just don't understand people who intentionally mis-represent players salaries to bolster their opinions. It works entirely against your argument by making you seem suspicious.

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Old
08-01-2008, 02:57 PM
  #75
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Rob Zamuner has been an Olympian too.

Oh and the one year McCabe finished top five in Norris voting was 2004 (which is not "as recent as three years ago" for the record), Adrian Aucoin was top five in Norris voting that year, too.




That's all well and good, but the original point in this thread was that McCabe might have value to the Canucks.

The Canucks don't care what he's paid, they care what his cap hit is - they're not struggling to meet the cap floor while keeping costs down, they want to build the best team they can while staying under the ceiling.

Players who don't contribute anything that the Canucks are missing (grit from the defense or a shot from the point on the powerplay) who would be paid more than any other Canuck defender and have a cap hit significantly higher than even that are not a good way of doing this.

edit: The Canucks more than likely also won't be picking up any aging, overpaid defensemen who have long-term commitments tied to them - the three years left on McCabe's contract will almost certainly impede the Canucks ability to retain their own young players.

I don't see why this is so controversial?
Actually I completely agree that McCabe to the nucks doesnt make much sense when they have Edler, Bieska, Ohlund etc.....
I was reacting to the earlier point that basically McCabe isnt worth his contract (which you will read in any McCabe thread). This thread is just a background to the whole McCabe is overpaid and useless thing that you read around here all the time. You would read it in proposals to Buffalo, SJ, etc.....(which I personally find irritating since these teams obviously did need defencemen and paid more in terms of assets and contracts for players that were lesser or equal then McCabe for similar or worse contracts)

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