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Seven Biggest Hockey Trades -Scott Burnside (Two Directly Involving the Habs)

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08-09-2008, 02:05 AM
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Sined
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Seven Biggest Hockey Trades -Scott Burnside (Two Directly Involving the Habs)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...e=NHLHeadlines

Quote:
Dec. 6, 1995: Patrick Roy and Mike Keane traded by Montreal to Colorado for Andrei Kovalenko, Jocelyn Thibault and Martin Rucinsky

In hockey-mad Quebec, this is simply known as Le Trade or The Trade. As with all things relating to hockey in Quebec, the trade of the man known as St. Patrick involved more than a little emotion. Already at odds with head coach Mario Tremblay, a former teammate with whom he had squabbled, Roy was enraged after the Detroit Red Wings poured nine goals past him en route to a 12-1 shelling of the Habs on Dec. 2. When Roy was finally pulled in the second period of the drubbing, the netminder stormed past Tremblay and mouthed to team president Ronald Corey, who was sitting behind the bench, that he was done in Montreal. By the end of that week Roy was shipped to Denver.

After what amounted to a shotgun deal, the Habs managed to win just one playoff round over the next six springs following the trade. Although the appearance of Jose Theodore in the Montreal fold eased some of the pain of having lost an elite player who was also a native son, in some ways the trade will always haunt the franchise.

As for the Colorado Avalanche, who had just relocated from Quebec City before the start of the 1995-96 season, there was more than a little irony at play in the spring of 1996 when the Avs won their first-ever Stanley Cup. The Avs would win again in 2001, and Roy would earn his second Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP. Roy's arrival in Denver ensured that the NHL's second go-round in the mountain city would be a success, and when he retired from the NHL after the 2003 season, he was considered by most to be the finest goaltender of all time.

Jan. 26, 1971: Ralph Backstrom traded from Montreal to Los Angeles for Gord Labossiere and Ray Fortin

As time passes, the significance of this seemingly inconsequential deal fades, but given the ultimate impact the deal had, it remains a significant transaction in league history. At the time the Montreal Canadiens owned the No. 1 draft pick in the 1971 draft, having acquired the pick from the California Golden Seals.

But as the 1970-71 season progressed, the woeful Los Angeles Kings looked as though they were going to be even worse than California and end up with the top pick and the opportunity to select French Canadian star Guy Lafleur. Montreal GM Sam Pollock, considered among the finest hockey minds in the history of the game, sent still-useful Ralph Backstrom to the Kings for two players who never played a game for the Habs. Backstrom, however, had 14 goals and 27 points in 33 games for the Kings and his contributions were enough to lift Los Angeles out of the NHL basement and allow the Canadiens to draft Lafleur with the No. 1 pick at the 1971 draft.

Lafleur, of course, was the offensive cornerstone of the Canadiens' dynasty that would win four straight Stanley Cups in the mid to late 1970s -- teams that are considered among the best of all time.

The Kings are still looking for their first-ever championship and have advanced to just one Cup final in their more than 40 years of existence.
I found it a really good read. The second trade to insure the No. 1 pick is mind boggling.

Interestingly enough they are also involved (though indirectly) in another of the 7 trades.

June 30, 1992: Peter Forsberg, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, Mike Ricci, Ron Hextall, a draft pick (that became Jocelyn Thibault), Chris Simon and $15 million traded from Philadelphia to Quebec for Eric Lindros.

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08-09-2008, 08:37 AM
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still can't believe we picked Tremblay over Roy...

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08-09-2008, 08:56 AM
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I still try to block that 1st one out of mind, it sends me over to the bad place.

I've read about how shrewd GM Sam Pollock was in orchestrating deals in books & articles over the years. Pollock was Hockey's version of a beautiful mind.

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08-09-2008, 04:19 PM
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That whole Lafleur thing was very shady. The Seals were owned by a corporation for a couple months while that whole thing went down. Very fishy. We need to get back to that imo. hehehe

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08-09-2008, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
still can't believe we picked Tremblay over Roy...
Ronald Corey was the nail in Roy's coffin in Montreal. Another president would have had a lot more diplomacy in resolving the situation.

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08-09-2008, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LeafRefereeeeeees View Post
That whole Lafleur thing was very shady. The Seals were owned by a corporation for a couple months while that whole thing went down. Very fishy. We need to get back to that imo. hehehe
Nothing shady happened. Pollock saw the Kings just might finish last. He made them an offer they couldnt refuse. He gambled a bit and it paid off.

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Ronald Corey was the nail in Roy's coffin in Montreal. Another president would have had a lot more diplomacy in resolving the situation.
So would a different GM. Lets say Savard. He would have had a talk with Roy first.


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08-09-2008, 06:28 PM
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Nothing shady happened. Pollock saw the Kings just might finish last. He made them an offer they couldnt refuse. He gambled a bit and it paid off.
Yes, but in the interim while that trade was made (a few months I think), the Seals were owned by a corporation. Does that not start your engine? I'm glad we got Lafleur, but Guy would have been the Gretzky of California before Gretzky. It's a shame in some ways because we probably still would have won several Cups, but probably no dynasty. I'm sure Guy is counting his pesos. I would. But as the best player in the league, all he did was challenge for 250k. That's a lesson to us all. Push for more. Much more. Because it's there.

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08-09-2008, 06:37 PM
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Yes, but in the interim while that trade was made (a few months I think), the Seals were owned by a corporation. Does that not start your engine? I'm glad we got Lafleur, but Guy would have been the Gretzky of California before Gretzky. It's a shame in some ways because we probably still would have won several Cups, but probably no dynasty. I'm sure Guy is counting his pesos. I would. But as the best player in the league, all he did was challenge for 250k. That's a lesson to us all. Push for more. Much more. Because it's there.
What does being owned by a corporation indicate? It's not like the Canadiens had the money to bribe a corporation. Even if they did, it makes no sense because the Golden Seals were, truly, that bad. It's not like they were all of a sudden going to become a better team that the LAK with Ralph Backstrom, who was quite a decent player back then.

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08-09-2008, 06:54 PM
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Nothing shady happened. Pollock saw the Kings just might finish last. He made them an offer they couldnt refuse. He gambled a bit and it paid off.
The way Montreal got the first pick was weird...

To Montreal : 1st pick overall, Francois Lacombe
To Oakland : 10 pick overall, Ernie Hicke

Hicke and Lacombe were both minor league players at that time...this trade should be in Burnside's list. This trade is way better than the Backstrom trade because even if the Seals had finish in front of the kings, Montreal would have probably drafted Marcel Dionne!

The important part of the Lafleur trade was really to get a high first round pick that would have probably turn out to be Lafleur or Dionne, even without the Backstrom trade.

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08-09-2008, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LeafRefereeeeeees View Post
Yes, but in the interim while that trade was made (a few months I think), the Seals were owned by a corporation. Does that not start your engine? I'm glad we got Lafleur, but Guy would have been the Gretzky of California before Gretzky. It's a shame in some ways because we probably still would have won several Cups, but probably no dynasty. I'm sure Guy is counting his pesos. I would. But as the best player in the league, all he did was challenge for 250k. That's a lesson to us all. Push for more. Much more. Because it's there.
I dont know what you are alluding to.
The seals traded Francois Lacombe and their first round pick to for Montreal's first round pick and Ernie Hicke.
Then when it looked like the kings would finish last Pollock sent them some ammo so they wouldnt finish last.

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The way Montreal got the first pick was weird...

To Montreal : 1st pick overall, Francois Lacombe
To Oakland : 10 pick overall, Ernie Hicke

Hicke and Lacombe were both minor league players at that time...this trade should be in Burnside's list. This trade is way better than the Backstrom trade because even if the Seals had finish in front of the kings, Montreal would have probably drafted Marcel Dionne!

The important part of the Lafleur trade was really to get a high first round pick that would have probably turn out to be Lafleur or Dionne, even without the Backstrom trade.
guess who finished top goal scorer for the Seals that season.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 08-09-2008 at 08:03 PM.
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08-09-2008, 07:26 PM
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guess who finished top goal scorer for the Seals that season.
Hicke?

But that's not enough for the difference between 1st and 10th

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08-09-2008, 08:04 PM
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Hicke?

But that's not enough for the difference between 1st and 10th
well the year before the habs missed the playoffs they had the 9th pick the seals had the 2nd. Maybe the Seals thought they could move up and montreal would move down. Plus they thought that Hicke could help now as opposed to a pick that would help in many years.

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08-09-2008, 08:07 PM
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Hicke?

But that's not enough for the difference between 1st and 10th
Teams didn't understand the value of building through the draft in those days... the draft was still a realitively new concept.... The first drafts brought in relatively few superstars as players who had already signed with NHL clubs prior to the institution of the draft were not eligible... Only in the late 60s did the draft truly open up to include everyone as those already signed players ran out (the practice of signing these minor age players, some like Bobby Orr as young as 12, was abolished with the draft).

Sam Pollack was the first man to understand the value of First rounders, and made many trades for them in the early 70s. The Lafleur deal and the Backstrom deal are just his best and most famous.

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08-09-2008, 09:01 PM
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What? How can Juha Lind or Mike Ribeiro not be on that list!

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08-09-2008, 09:01 PM
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The Canadiens were owned by a corporation then too, MOLSONS! What does it mean? Nothing.

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08-09-2008, 09:57 PM
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The first trade is a lot worse because of the fact that we let go of Keane too.

The trade, value=wise, was good if Keane was not involved.

Kovalenko looked very promising, Thibault was a top-prospect goalie and Rucinsky, at the time, was a very good player.

As much as the Roy trade sucked, if Keane was not apart of the deal (or the Avs didn't win the cup that season), the trade wouldn't be look upon as a bad trade over time.

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08-09-2008, 11:58 PM
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So would a different GM. Lets say Savard. He would have had a talk with Roy first.
Isn't there rumours of Savard having a package deal for Roy in place before he got fired?

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08-10-2008, 12:06 AM
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So would a different GM. Lets say Savard. He would have had a talk with Roy first.
Savard traded Roy for Nolan and Fiset but the deal never went down because he got fired.

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08-10-2008, 12:30 AM
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Savard traded Roy for Nolan and Fiset but the deal never went down because he got fired.
He didnt make the trade he said he was working on a deal that included these players. But he would not have trade Roy with a gun to his head.

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08-10-2008, 02:34 AM
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...e=NHLHeadlines



I found it a really good read. The second trade to insure the No. 1 pick is mind boggling.

Interestingly enough they are also involved (though indirectly) in another of the 7 trades.

June 30, 1992: Peter Forsberg, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, Mike Ricci, Ron Hextall, a draft pick (that became Jocelyn Thibault), Chris Simon and $15 million traded from Philadelphia to Quebec for Eric Lindros.

the Backstrom deal appearing on the list is not quite right. Oh I suppose it's part of the supposed lore of the Habs, and it's now a legendary trade in Habs fan circles, but it wasn't that impressive.

The bottom line is that had LA got their man and landed Lafleur, the Habs could have picked up Marcel Dionne, a player that scored 171 more goals and over 400 more points in his career.

Nobody thinks about the Habs dynasty in the 70's and what it would have been like had Dionne been a part of it. They continue to dwell on the Pollock move that got him. Sorry, it doesn't deserve to be on the list, because as great as Lafleur was, Dionne was arguably as good if not a better hockey player.

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08-10-2008, 11:47 AM
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He didnt make the trade he said he was working on a deal that included these players. But he would not have trade Roy with a gun to his head.
Everybody wanted Roy out; it was something that had been building for a while amongst fans and behind the scene in management, even through most of the old legends, the former Habs players. So much so that when Tremblay took the job, he was like on a mission. Mario was in the press at that time and was in contact a lot with the former Habs players, he had the pulse of everybody. And as a old school guy that played for the Habs were the motto was "one for all, all for one" where everybody was treated equal, he wanted to bring that back. Like most former Habs of the glorious years he was offended by how Roy was treated better than his teamates, and how he in turn was treated like ...a king. Demers had made Roy his chosen one and ran on that concept because he had won a cup this way, and was riding his horse as much as he could. (In retrospect that was the only option for Demers because in the 90s the Habs were not the all-stars of old).Tremblay was there to set things straight and felt invested by that particular role like a real trooper. Being rather unorthodox, the actions of Tremblay made everything exploded rather quickly and it lead to what we know happened. Mario had the right ideas but was just the wrong man to go about it. (one thing that I would like to know is if by his Habs contacts, Mario knew Roy would be traded in the near futur and that may be why he lacked respect for Roy...)

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