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08-01-2008, 09:39 AM
  #1
Cogliano13Gagner89
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Nilsson or Bernier (Argument)

I was searching through the HF fantasy boards a few days ago and I saw this trade posted where the guy wanted to know if he should trade Steve Bernier for Robert Nilsson and two other guys. Almost everyone said no, saying that Bernier is better than all of those guys. I thought this was just plain stupid and said Nilsson alone is better than Bernier. Then this guy replies and says Bernier is better and I'm only saying this cause I'm an Oilers Fan.

So I did some research and I don't know if I'm crazy, but Nilsson has put up better numbers, even though there not by much. IMO Nilsson is a potential second liner, maybe 1st. Bernier will probably never be better than a 3rd line guy.

Here is the link to the thread. It's towards the end.... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...6#post15050586

Let me know what you think

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08-01-2008, 09:41 AM
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Cogliano13Gagner89
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In case you didnt see my last post in the thread these are both Bernier's and Nilsson's stats:

Steve Bernier:
05-06 - 62gp 15g 16a 31pts
06-07 - 59gp 13g 10a 23pts
07-08 - 76gp 16g 16a 32pts

Robert Nilsson:
05-06 - 53gp 6g 14a 20ts
07-08 - 71gp 10g 31 41pts

Nilsson also posted 17 points in the last 21 games of the season.

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08-01-2008, 09:45 AM
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Don't argue forwards with Nux fans, or anything hockey-related for that matter. I was on another site and some Vancouver fans said the Sedins were on their 2nd line?! Many fans also think the Canucks, particularly their offence, has actually gotten better this offseason

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08-01-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
Don't argue forwards with Nux fans, or anything hockey-related for that matter. I was on another site and some Vancouver fans said the Sedins were on their 2nd line?! Many fans also think the Canucks, particularly their offence, has actually gotten better this offseason
haha. Morrison and Naslund out. Demitra, Bernier, and Hordichuk in.

WATCH OUT FOR VANCOUVER

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08-01-2008, 09:58 AM
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the guy in the other thread is talking about trading Jonathan Bernier not Steve Bernier. That's why people aren't agreeing with you.

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08-01-2008, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
the guy in the other thread is talking about trading Jonathan Bernier not Steve Bernier. That's why people aren't agreeing with you.
Really? lol

Even then, I think I'd rather have Nilsson. I'm no expert on LA prospects but hasn't Jonathan Bernier been said to be overhyped?

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08-01-2008, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogliano13Gagner89 View Post
Really? lol

Even then, I think I'd rather have Nilsson. I'm no expert on LA prospects but hasn't Jonathan Bernier been said to be overhyped?
He is a goalie, they take longer to come into thier own. He will be an elite goalie in this league, mark my words.

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08-01-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogliano13Gagner89 View Post
Really? lol

Even then, I think I'd rather have Nilsson. I'm no expert on LA prospects but hasn't Jonathan Bernier been said to be overhyped?
He is like any prospect on these boards some think he will be a super star other think he is overrated and will never make it to the NHL. And I would have to agree with the rest I wouldn't make that trade if I was that guy. But I like Jonathan Bernier and think he is going to be a great goalie.

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08-01-2008, 11:22 AM
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I think Steve Bernier is a coke machine that won't amount to much in the NHL. I'd rather have Nilsson.

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08-01-2008, 11:40 AM
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with the Risk Reward with prospects in a keeper league you take Bernier. No questions asked.

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08-01-2008, 12:29 PM
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koeltrain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I think Steve Bernier is a coke machine that won't amount to much in the NHL. I'd rather have Nilsson.
A coke machine that eats up rebounds. He did very well against Anaheim with the crap team that he had in front of him.

I never checked the other thread, but Bernier is going to be a good tender. Probably sooner that most people think.


Last edited by koeltrain: 08-01-2008 at 12:30 PM. Reason: ops wrong Bernier - you were talking about Steve that time, jeez this is confusing
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08-01-2008, 01:48 PM
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Cogliano13Gagner89
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A coke machine that eats up rebounds. He did very well against Anaheim with the crap team that he had in front of him.

I never checked the other thread, but Bernier is going to be a good tender. Probably sooner that most people think.
Wow this thread is getting confusing lol

When OntOilFan posted he's a choke machine he was talking about STEVE Bernier, not Jonathan Bernier.

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08-01-2008, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogliano13Gagner89 View Post
Wow this thread is getting confusing lol

When OntOilFan posted he's a choke machine he was talking about STEVE Bernier, not Jonathan Bernier.
I'm just glad we have Nilsson and we need to resign Garon. I hope this is on STs' priority list

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08-01-2008, 02:57 PM
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Nilsson's BTN stats are all considerably better. Way better 5v5 offensively, way better 5v5 defensively. About the same minutes, about the same QUALTEAM (although both favour Bernier a bit). They played about the same amount on the PP and neither played much at all at 4v5.

Nilsson is signed for 3 years at a $2 million dollar cap-hit while Bernier is signed for 1 year at a $2.5 million dollar hit. If Bernier has anything approaching the season Canucks fans think he will, it's going to cost them to re-up him long term. Nilsson is just about 2 months older then Bernier. Nilsson scored more points in fewer games then Bernier last year although Bernier has a considerably better GPG average. Nilsson is the better playmaker.

Nilsson wins handily.

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08-01-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogliano13Gagner89 View Post
Wow this thread is getting confusing lol

When OntOilFan posted he's a choke machine he was talking about STEVE Bernier, not Jonathan Bernier.
Awesome mix up.

Back to Steve Bernier if he plays with the Sedins as the 'Nucks fans think. If he does not get 20+ goals and 45+ points then that would be pretty sad. A pylon who knows where the net is should be able to do that with those guys.

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08-01-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogliano13Gagner89 View Post
haha. Morrison and Naslund out. Demitra, Bernier, and Hordichuk in.

WATCH OUT FOR VANCOUVER
Because Hordichuk is an offensive player.

Our offense is better than last year's. Losing Morrison sucks, but Demitra is a huge upgrade over Naslund, and Raymond seems to be coming in on his own. We also have a big right hand shot playing with the Sedins, something we haven't had since Anson Carter (who wasn't really that big anyway).

The problem is question marks on the offense. We have a talented group, but can they put it together?

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08-01-2008, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cao View Post
Because Hordichuk is an offensive player.

Our offense is better than last year's. Losing Morrison sucks, but Demitra is a huge upgrade over Naslund, and Raymond seems to be coming in on his own. We also have a big right hand shot playing with the Sedins, something we haven't had since Anson Carter (who wasn't really that big anyway).

The problem is question marks on the offense. We have a talented group, but can they put it together?
I would say Demitra is a moderate upgrade on Naslund. That is also taking into account that he stays healthy and that age does not catch up with him too much (he turns 34 just after the season begins).

Otherwise it looks to me you guys have replaced the offense lost from last season. But are not really ahead of last year offensively or by a very small margin. If you sign Sundin then yeah for sure. If not I do not see the Canucks scoring much more than last season.

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08-01-2008, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao View Post
Because Hordichuk is an offensive player.

Our offense is better than last year's. Losing Morrison sucks, but Demitra is a huge upgrade over Naslund, and Raymond seems to be coming in on his own. We also have a big right hand shot playing with the Sedins, something we haven't had since Anson Carter (who wasn't really that big anyway).

The problem is question marks on the offense. We have a talented group, but can they put it together?
So much is wrong with this I don't even know where to start.
Anyone remember that Demitra scored 15 goals last season? He;s good, but he's not going to score 25 goals this season in Vancouver.
The rest of the team besides the Sedins, Ohland, Bieksa and Luongo look like 4th liners.

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08-01-2008, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NMK View Post
So much is wrong with this I don't even know where to start.
Anyone remember that Demitra scored 15 goals last season? He;s good, but he's not going to score 25 goals this season in Vancouver.
The rest of the team besides the Sedins, Ohland, Bieksa and Luongo look like 4th liners.
Bernier's an established 20 goal scorer, Kesler is an established 20 goal scorer and Raymond somewhere in between Cogliano and Brodziak in terms of PPG percentage.

Their offense looks to be the weakest in the division at the moment (they aren't done tinkering, though). And really, if their D can stay healthy, it should be top-15.

I still say Edmonton is the deeper more complete team with fewer question marks, but don't count them out completely.

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08-01-2008, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Bernier's an established 20 goal scorer
Bernier hasn't scored 20 yet... pro-rated over 82 games maybe. I see him as another Torres/Pyatt (potential is there, but won't ever reach it).

If we put Torres or Stoll in the first line and claimed our offense kicked ass, wouldn't most non-Oiler fans laugh at us?

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08-01-2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Bernier hasn't scored 20 yet... pro-rated over 82 games maybe. I see him as another Torres/Pyatt (potential is there, but won't ever reach it).

If we put Torres or Stoll in the first line and claimed our offense kicked ass, wouldn't most non-Oiler fans laugh at us?
Wow, I think I looked at his numbers and overlooked the fact that he was in and out of the AHL (20 goal season in 05/06).

Still, he pro-rates to 20 goals twice in his four year career. The pace is there but for whatever reason, he doesn't stick in the NHL.

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08-01-2008, 04:25 PM
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This Is Not About The Winger On Vancouver This Is About Los Angeles' Goalie.

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08-01-2008, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMK View Post
So much is wrong with this I don't even know where to start.
Anyone remember that Demitra scored 15 goals last season? He;s good, but he's not going to score 25 goals this season in Vancouver.
The rest of the team besides the Sedins, Ohland, Bieksa and Luongo look like 4th liners.
Nowhere did I say that Demitra was going to score 25 goals this season. But his playmaking ability far surpasses that of Naslund, and is much better than Morrison's too.

Your anti-Canucks bias is just trying to find excuses to put down the Canucks and goes so far as to put words into my mouth.

But congratulations, because you just make yourself look ignorant.

It's Ohlund, not Ohland.

And of course, the rest of the team does not look like fourth liners. Taylor Pyatt is not a fourth liner. Taylor Pyatt is a fringe top 6 player who isn't good enough to be a top 6 guy but can fill in if needed. Matt Pettinger is a former 20 goal scorer who had an off season last year. He has all the talent in the world, plus a lot of grit in case he doesn't get his scoring touch back. In what world is a 20 goal scorer a fourth liner? Ryan Kesler is one of the premier checking centres of the NHL. He is the quintessential third line centre, and brings in grit and an offensive touch (he had 21 goals last year). Alexandre Burrows is a fantastic penalty killer, and came through with offense during the latter part of the season when we really needed it. He's a staple on the third line beside Kesler. Any team would love to have a combination of these four guys as their third line.

I'm not sure how you can peg Mason Raymond as a fourth liner. He was scoring at a 0.5 ppg in the NHL and was almost a ppg in the AHL. He has shown flashes of offensive brilliance combined with a good work ethic. Sure, fourth liner. Same with Steve Bernier, a fourth liner as well, but hey, like you said, he's not big, and he isn't a right hand shot and he isn't the solution to the RW slot beside the Sedins because your crystal ball tells all. And of course, Pavol Demitra gets paid 4 million dollars to be a fourth liner.

Even Kyle ****ing Wellwood isn't a fourth liner because he can't check and is too slow. He's pure offense, as shown by his near ppg campaign in 06/07. Sure, he didn't put it together last season, but he isn't a fourth liner because he can't be

The only fourth liners on this team are Darcy Hordichuk, Ryan Johnson (simply because Kesler's ahead of him, despite being a great faceoff man and a great penalty killer (lead the league in blocked shots for forwards)), Ryan Shannon, Jason Krog, and Jeff Cowan.

If you took a little time to notice the other teams around the Oilers instead of just thinking that they were the best team in the league, you'd see that every team has their strengths and weaknesses, but it doesn't mean that the team is absolutely terrible. Like our defense. How one can say that Sami Salo, Willie Mitchell, and Alexander Edler are bottom pairing defensemen absolutely baffles me, and probably baffles everybody else on HF.

But of course, our team isn't talented. Steve Bernier wasn't picked 16th overall in 2003, one of the deepest drafts in NHL history. Mason Raymond wasn't named the most valuable player of his NCAA team and wasn't selected to the WHCA Rookie team. Alexander Edler didn't play in the young stars game with Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, and Matt Niskanen. Ryan Kesler isn't seen as a great young checking centre with tons of potential left to be even better. Kyle Wellwood didn't score 42 points in 48 games in 06/07, coupled with a hatrick and 2 assists for a 5 point game against the Rangers. Pavol Demitra got 5 million dollar contracts for being a bum.

I hope you learned something from this post. Like I said before, this team is talented, but whether they put it all together is the question surrounding the team. We don't have the best offense in the Northwest. In fact, we have one of the worst offenses in the whole league right now. But the upcoming season will tell us what we need to do in order to improve.

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08-01-2008, 04:31 PM
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Fayne Gretzky
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Awkward thread...

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08-01-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
This Is Not About The Winger On Vancouver This Is About Los Angeles' Goalie.
The thread he is referring to might be. I never checked it out. But the thread starter certainly did turn this particular thread into a Steve Bernier vs. Nilsson thread.

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