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pump and dump candidates

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Old
08-02-2008, 10:32 AM
  #1
Mr Sakich
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pump and dump candidates

the oilers have done this in the past - players who got traded invaribly got extra minutes + prime minutes / linemates in order to maximize thier trade value. Jarret Stoll is the most recent example. Because of contract situations and players in the system ready to contribute, there are some good candidates for this and it will foreshadow a trade next off season.

My bet is Grebeshkov. We have 4 dmen signed long term plus Smid ready to take more minutes. We also have some excellent prospects almost ready to demand NHL ice time. Grebeshkov is kind of in no mans land, there isn't room for him to be a top pairing guy and kids right below him. He has the kind of game that can produce attention grabbing numbers and some GM might consider him a potential top 3 dman.

Any others?

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Old
08-02-2008, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post

My bet is Grebeshkov. We have 4 dmen signed long term plus Smid ready to take more minutes. We also have some excellent prospects almost ready to demand NHL ice time. Grebeshkov is kind of in no mans land, there isn't room for him to be a top pairing guy and kids right below him. He has the kind of game that can produce attention grabbing numbers and some GM might consider him a potential top 3 dman.
If we are to win the Stanly Cup within the next three years, Grebeshkov is one of the keys...... He will be a game-breaker - guaranteed...

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Old
08-02-2008, 11:06 AM
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Roloson is an obvious one. His value will spike come the trade deadline, where a couple of teams will be looking for his leadership and a solid backup option come playoffs. I can't see us keeping him even if we do make the playoffs ourselves.

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08-02-2008, 11:16 AM
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Louis Cypher
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Originally Posted by GagnerforGod View Post
Roloson is an obvious one. His value will spike come the trade deadline, where a couple of teams will be looking for his leadership and a solid backup option come playoffs. I can't see us keeping him even if we do make the playoffs ourselves.
If we are riding 3 goalies come playoff time we are doomed. Roli needs to be traded or bought out ASAP.

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Old
08-02-2008, 11:24 AM
  #5
Oi'll say!
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Any player with more hockey skill than social skills will almost certainly get the ol' p&d imo. The Oil make no bones about cultivating a good locker room at the expense of good players who just don't fit in (I won't miss Lowe's comments re: the character of Oiler/ex-Oiler players, hopefully Tambo can do as good a job at making trades with a little more class/integrity).

It's hard for us fans to know who fits that mould because we don't generally see how the teammates interact on a personal level and I won't speculate on anyone's character so my prediction is - the guy on the bus who can't turn that frown upside-down or who's a little too cocky.

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08-02-2008, 11:25 AM
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Roloson will be the backup, but will be given quite a few starts throughout the year, with the frequency increasing as we move towards the trade deadline. It will be hoped that he shows his 2006 form, and can then be moved to a Cup contender that is having some goaltending issues.

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Old
08-02-2008, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Louis Cypher View Post
If we are riding 3 goalies come playoff time we are doomed. Roli needs to be traded or bought out ASAP.
Buying him out or him retiring does nothing for us. He remains at the same cap hit because of when we signed him. Our only option is to trade him, and you won't be able to until the deadline.

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Old
08-02-2008, 12:44 PM
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theoil
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
the oilers have done this in the past - players who got traded invaribly got extra minutes + prime minutes / linemates in order to maximize thier trade value. Jarret Stoll is the most recent example. Because of contract situations and players in the system ready to contribute, there are some good candidates for this and it will foreshadow a trade next off season.
Sorry Sakich but I don't buy this. You think putting Stoll on the 1st line after Horcoff went down so that his total inability to function in that role was part of a master plan to increase his value around the league? You don't think anybody watching him would have noticed how bad he looked skating beside Hemsky and Penner? That nobody would look at his +/- at the end of the season and wonder if he had a clue in his own end? I just don't buy it.

But then I have never bought the 'pump and dump' conspiracy theory which has been around these boards for as long as I have been here. It is the job of the coach to win games - not to be involved in some season long shell game to help his GM pull the wool over the eyes of one of the other GM's in the league.

I can buy the fact that a marginal player gets into the lineup for a game or two now and then because he is part of a deal and the other team wants a look before pulling the trigger but that is about it. In a league where the difference between making the playoffs and sitting in 10th spot is about 2 points I find it hard to believe that any braintrust in the NHL is playing silly games like this. Too much to lose and any supposed benefits are far too unpredictable.

Regardless of the fact that it has become gospel around here.

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Old
08-02-2008, 01:16 PM
  #9
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But then I have never bought the 'pump and dump' conspiracy theory which has been around these boards for as long as I have been here. It is the job of the coach to win games - not to be involved in some season long shell game to help his GM pull the wool over the eyes of one of the other GM's in the league.

Regardless of the fact that it has become gospel around here.
Sometimes there's not a great difference between two players who are vying for a spot in the lineup and as we have seen in the past MacT is pretty good at getting favorable matchups for weak players.

It's not unreasonable to think of a scenario like this example:
Let's say that R Schremp has finally proven to the Oilers brass that he will never be able to set foot on the ice without harming the team at even strength. He's a proven pp scorer though and on a pp with Souray and Vs he can rack up some points, plus he can play some easy mins alongside Moreau and Brodziak to get him a nice even strength +1 over 20 games. +1 is not unfathomable, The Sens have managed to make a couple of rookies top the +30 mark and Hemsky was a plus in his first season.
I honestly think that RS could get 12-15 points in 20 games without harming the team too much, especially if they just keep him out of a few key games like Cal, Ana, Det...
If they could get RS to 20gp, 4g-9a-13pts, +1 his trade value would be that of a guy who's starting to make an impact in the nhl instead of just being thought of as a potential headcase who's bound to play in the ahl the rest of his life.
The difference to the Oilers lineup over those 20 games would just be MAP vs Schremp and that's nothing on a healthy team. They've been forced into situations where 3 of their top 4 d-men have been out at the same time for 20+ games.

That scenario is, hopefully, way off base, I still hold out hope for RS. Having a guy with his skill level on the team would be incredible if he's working as hard as they say.

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Old
08-02-2008, 01:44 PM
  #10
theoil
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Sometimes there's not a great difference between two players who are vying for a spot in the lineup and as we have seen in the past MacT is pretty good at getting favorable matchups for weak players.

It's not unreasonable to think of a scenario like this example:
Let's say that R Schremp has finally proven to the Oilers brass that he will never be able to set foot on the ice without harming the team at even strength. He's a proven pp scorer though and on a pp with Souray and Vs he can rack up some points, plus he can play some easy mins alongside Moreau and Brodziak to get him a nice even strength +1 over 20 games. +1 is not unfathomable, The Sens have managed to make a couple of rookies top the +30 mark and Hemsky was a plus in his first season.
I honestly think that RS could get 12-15 points in 20 games without harming the team too much, especially if they just keep him out of a few key games like Cal, Ana, Det...
If they could get RS to 20gp, 4g-9a-13pts, +1 his trade value would be that of a guy who's starting to make an impact in the nhl instead of just being thought of as a potential headcase who's bound to play in the ahl the rest of his life.
The difference to the Oilers lineup over those 20 games would just be MAP vs Schremp and that's nothing on a healthy team. They've been forced into situations where 3 of their top 4 d-men have been out at the same time for 20+ games.

That scenario is, hopefully, way off base, I still hold out hope for RS. Having a guy with his skill level on the team would be incredible if he's working as hard as they say.
But the scenario you describe benefits the team. It doesn't describe a situation where players are used inappropriately when better options are available.

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Old
08-02-2008, 02:25 PM
  #11
misfit
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
I honestly think that RS could get 12-15 points in 20 games without harming the team too much, especially if they just keep him out of a few key games like Cal, Ana, Det...
You do, do you? That would put him on pace for 62 points for the season (which would've been good for 2nd in team scoring last year). And you expect him to be a plus player as well (we had 6 plus players of the 30 that dressed for us last year)? Maybe when he's done with that, he can cure the blind.

And to top it off, you've got us trading him after that. If Schremp gets 15 points in 20 games, we'd be bat-**** crazy to trade him.

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Old
08-02-2008, 03:07 PM
  #12
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Smid? Nilsson? Cole?

The only dumping we'll be doing is to get a better player back in a trade or UFA signing.

Post Stoll/Torres/Greene/Sanderson/Pitkanen we don't have any seriously underperforming players. Staios + Roloson are alright - not hurting us.

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