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Kane or Gagner?

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Old
08-02-2008, 01:36 PM
  #1
Luongo4VP
 
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Kane or Gagner?

So I hung out with my cousin from Chicago yesterday night and as we stumbled across this topic of hockey. He said to me "You guys are extremely fortunate to have a player like Sam Gagner, I wish we had a player of that ilk" and my initial response was "Umm, have you heard about Patrick Kane or Jonathan Toews? Well, they play for Chicago and both are much better players than Gagner. He looks at me for a second and replies "Toews might be an obvious better choice than Gagner, but I'm not so sure about Kane". I am totally stunned so I say "Kane won the Calder, what are you smoking man?".

He than points out the following to me:

-Kane played Top Line minutes the entire year in Chi-City and he acknowledged the fact that Gagner never played on the Top Line
- He played with linemates with the talent of Patrick Sharp/Toews. He says that Gagner should also have inflated stats if he played with those two.
- He says that coming into the league as an 18 year old is a more of an adjustment than a 19 year old(I think this is a ridiculous comment since both players came straight out of the draft)

So, would you agree with my cousin or do you think that he is just being very modest about his team?

Also, who do you think will be the more successful player in the future? My money is entirely on Patrick.

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08-02-2008, 01:39 PM
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melubsdonna
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Kane.

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08-02-2008, 01:40 PM
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hockeychild99
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Gagner...your cousin was right...

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08-02-2008, 01:58 PM
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Ramrod
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Kane.

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08-02-2008, 02:04 PM
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Alex87
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Right now Kane is better but your cousin is right in pointing out the age difference (which is a huge factor believe it or not) and the quality of Kane's linemates versus those of Gagner's. However, Kane likely had much tougher minutes to play being a first line player.

It's a homer thing for me to say but I would rather have Gagner if only because of how smart he is with and without the puck. Barring injuries though, both players will be fantastic throughout their careers, and since they're both so young now it's a little ridiculous predicting who will be a better player in seven or eight years when both really hit their prime.

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08-02-2008, 02:04 PM
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Horseradish
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A couple of good points by your cousin. It's hard to tell because the last 1/3 of the season, Gagner was just as good.

But I'd rather have Toews than either.

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08-02-2008, 02:06 PM
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Flash Walken
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Toews > Kane > Gagner

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Old
08-02-2008, 02:10 PM
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I'll take Gagner as he wanted to be drafted by a Canadian team, so he should be a part of our future. Kane as an 18yo would probably have Gag's stats and Sam as a 19 yo should have Kane's stats.

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08-02-2008, 02:10 PM
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CorpseFX
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Patrick Sharp and a young Toews are now Alfy and Heater? i dont think so. theyre nice players but theyre not exactly "elite" first line stuff yet.

i dont see what the difference of playing on the top line is if you have great point producing chemistry with a second line and arent facing the opposing teams best checking unit. seems like Kane had a tougher job, and at his size, he really showed that he can be extremely effective. watching only a few games of Kane, he seems extremely intelligent in the offensive zone to dictate the play. he's great at puck possession, where to put the puck to keep possession in the zone to set up a play/cycle, elite vision and passing.

their both nice players but neither has showed to have the speed yet to be over the top studs yet, so until they mature more physically im reserving judgment on who id rather have. but right now id still give the edge to Kane.

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08-02-2008, 02:31 PM
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The Smytty Clapper
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Right now Kane.
But let's wait another year.

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08-02-2008, 02:34 PM
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Ok, I know that Gagner was averaging nearly a PPG the second haf of the season(since the new year), but Kane was able to manitain that prolific scoring pace for the ENTIRE season.

I do feel that both are going to be magnificent players, but Kane right now.

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Old
08-02-2008, 02:48 PM
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Oilerdiehard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post

He than points out the following to me:

- He says that coming into the league as an 18 year old is a more of an adjustment than a 19 year old(I think this is a ridiculous comment since both players came straight out of the draft)
Well Kane being 9 months older is actually a decent gap at this young stage of a players development. Also Kane's speed at least on paper should have helped him adjust and excel at the NHL level quicker than Gagner.

I did not watch Kane regularly enough to make a call on whether I think he is going to be better or not. Obviously right now in pure point production at this stage Kane is better. Next year is likely going to be a much better comparison year between the two. Gags amazing hockey sense, timing and anticipation definitely make his eventual roof pretty high IMO.

One interesting little comparison (beyond Kane getting 1st line treatment) from their rookie years:

Gagner: 15+ total minutes per game and 2:43 in PP time per game.

Kane: 18+ total minutes per game and 3:56 in PP time per game.

It is worth mentioning of course. If Kane is on the 1st line all year and the leading scorer. Then he likely seen tougher opposition than Gagner did.


Last edited by Oilerdiehard: 08-02-2008 at 05:18 PM.
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Old
08-02-2008, 02:56 PM
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Cogliano13Gagner89
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Right now Kane, but I don't like him. There's just something about him.

Anyways you can't go wrong with either one

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08-02-2008, 03:06 PM
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Sayuri
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As far as talent goes, they both have it in spades but they play different styles. Gagner is a more creative and heads up player, whereas Kane is run and gun and lots of flash. I agree with your cousin, I would take Gagner over Kane I havnt heard good things about Kane's attitude and work ethic. I think Gagner will prove to be the better player in time.

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08-02-2008, 03:12 PM
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Kane is a better skater and by far a better shooter. He's almost equal in playmaking ability to Sam-wise. I'd take him over Gagner even though Kane slumped badly with Toews out.

I think Kane is more like Hemsky - both have no problems in high-traffic areas, but Kane's smaller and I suspect he'll be more injury prone.

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08-02-2008, 03:27 PM
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Why am I doubting this cousin story as an excuse for TheLastoftheBest11 to argue Gagner is better than Kane?


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 08-02-2008 at 03:38 PM.
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Old
08-02-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Why am I doubting this cousin story as an excuse to argue Gagner is better than Kane?
Because I'm vouching for Kane, not Gagner.

I just want to hear people's opinions on this, I would reboot this thread on the Blackhawks board, but I don't know if too many people would be comfortable with it.

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08-02-2008, 03:41 PM
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Kane is better because he had 8 more goals and 23 more point than Gagner. He may have gotten more ice time but he was also playing against the Pronger's and Lidstrom's of the league every night. He had 44 even strength points and Gagner had 49 points in total. Did he have better linemates? Yep but thats one of the perks to being on the top line.

I think they will be closer when they're at the end of their entry level contracts.

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08-02-2008, 03:46 PM
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They get to play with each other again in an ex-Knights 4 on 4 charity game in London this Thursday:

TEAM 1- BLACK
28. Adam Dennis
3. Marc Methot
5. Dan Girardi
7. Drew Larman
25. Danny Syvret
33. Brandon Prust
44. Rob Schremp
74. Bryan Rodney
79. Dylan Hunter
88. Patrick Kane
89. Sam Gagner
91. David Bolland

TEAM 2- WHITE
37. Gerald Coleman
4. Dan Jancevksi
6. Dennis Wideman
7. Danny Richmond
10. Corey Perry
11. Chris Kelly
13. Krys Barch
17. Robbie Drummond
22. Kyle Quincey
36. Alex Henry
59. Trevor Kell
61. Rick Nash

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Old
08-02-2008, 03:58 PM
  #20
Ice Whole
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At the moment I would take Kane, but i have a feeling that Gagner will put up more points then Kane this year.

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Old
08-02-2008, 04:13 PM
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melubsdonna
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i'll be very happy if gagner can do 71 points next season (which was kanes totals last season).

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Old
08-02-2008, 04:51 PM
  #22
Soundwave
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Kane is a great player, and for good reason was taken no.1 overall.

That said, Gagner seems to have been a great fit for our team and we were lucky to get him at no.6.

Given the choice I would take Kane, just because of the goal scoring ability, but I'm quite happy with Gagner. Love Sam's attitude too.

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Old
08-02-2008, 05:09 PM
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OceanAveOiler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Why am I doubting this cousin story as an excuse for TheLastoftheBest11 to argue Gagner is better than Kane?
I don't belive the cuz story either,Gagner's is better than Kane and Toews is better than both.

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Old
08-02-2008, 05:09 PM
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Tommy35
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Gagner is an Oiler, he luvs us we luv him. I choose Sammy

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Old
08-02-2008, 05:11 PM
  #25
Cogliano13Gagner89
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Quote:
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Gagner is an Oiler, he luvs us we luv him. I choose Sammy
Right on

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