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Why isn't anyone talking about Sakic?

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Old
08-05-2008, 11:51 AM
  #26
FLAMESTR
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Basically in a nut shell its Avs or retire Sackic has made it clear he won't sign with any other team

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Old
08-05-2008, 11:52 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoHockeyFan View Post
As US cities go, it's a fantastic hockey market.
I'm sure it is, but there really is no comparison between Toronto and Colorado.

Might as well be comparing Montreal and Phoenix.

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08-05-2008, 12:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I'm sure it is, but there really is no comparison between Toronto and Colorado.

Might as well be comparing Montreal and Phoenix.
The Avs also hold the league record for most consecutive sellouts, I think you are way underestimating how good of a hockey market Colorado is......but that's just typical of most Canadians with a hockey superiority complex so I guess it's not your fault.

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08-05-2008, 12:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by avsfan987 View Post
The Avs also hold the league record for most consecutive sellouts, I think you are way underestimating how good of a hockey market Colorado is......but that's just typical of most Canadians with a hockey superiority complex so I guess it's not your fault.
While there ARE many Canadians with a superiority complex when it comes to hockey, I don't quite count myself as part of that group. Nice try, though.

I'm just saying that hockey is a more popular sport in Toronto than it is in Colorado. I really didn't think there was much to debate about.

And I still don't.

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08-05-2008, 01:18 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post

I'm just saying that hockey is a more popular sport in Toronto than it is in Colorado. I really didn't think there was much to debate about.
Yes, I will agree with you on that, but I don't think that's the reason why nobody is talking about Sakic. As great of a player Sundin is, he's still no Joe Sakic. Sundin is just being a drama queen and the media is gobbling it up.

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08-05-2008, 01:34 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by avsfan987 View Post
Yes, I will agree with you on that, but I don't think that's the reason why nobody is talking about Sakic. As great of a player Sundin is, he's still no Joe Sakic. Sundin is just being a drama queen and the media is gobbling it up.
And I'll agree that Sundin is no Sakic. No question there.

But the two are in remarkably similar situations; longtime veterans who are approaching retirement, now hitting free agency, and taking their time to decide what lies next for them.

Sure, media-wise Sundin's situation could be handled better, but this just goes back to what I was saying before; the Toronto hockey media is just rabid, and will go on for days and days about this story, drowning out other possibilities like Sakic. Had Sakic been traded to Toronto instead of Sundin, and the two were still in the same position today, you can bet it'd be the exact same situation, just with Sakic getting all the attention.

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08-05-2008, 02:27 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I'm sure it is, but there really is no comparison between Toronto and Colorado.

Might as well be comparing Montreal and Phoenix.

Yes Denver completely sucks as a hockey market. Nobody goes to the games or talks about the Avs at all. Thanks for clearing that up for all of us here in Colorado. I'll be at a monster truck/tractor pull/X games event if you need to holla back.




Oh Canucks fans, keep wishing on a star.

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08-05-2008, 02:40 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
Yes Denver completely sucks as a hockey market. Nobody goes to the games or talks about the Avs at all. Thanks for clearing that up for all of us here in Colorado. I'll be at a monster truck/tractor pull/X games event if you need to holla back.




Oh Canucks fans, keep wishing on a star.
Nobody said Colorado wasn't a great hockey market. Colorado has a rich hockey history. While perhaps the poster could have couched his words better, I think the poster was just saying in Toronto hockey is no.1 In Colorado while hockey gets tremendous support, it is not the no. 1 sport.

FYI I don't think he is s Canuck fan

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08-05-2008, 02:43 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by lennie View Post
Nobody said Colorado wasn't a great hockey market. Colorado has a rich hockey history. While perhaps the poster could have couched his words better, I think the poster was just saying in Toronto hockey is no.1 In Colorado while hockey gets tremendous support, it is not the no. 1 sport.
Yeah, his expressive language could have been worded. A little inane on the comparison.

Quote:
FYI I don't think he is s Canuck fan
Stars fan if I'm not mistaken.

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08-05-2008, 02:44 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lennie View Post
Nobody said Colorado wasn't a great hockey market. Colorado has a rich hockey history. While perhaps the poster could have couched his words better, I think the poster was just saying in Toronto hockey is no.1 In Colorado while hockey gets tremendous support, it is not the no. 1 sport.

FYI I don't think he is s Canuck fan
Thanks for clearing that up, it seems some people are having a hard time understanding me lately.

And no, I'm definitely not a Canucks fan. Hell, I'm not a Leafs fan either. Just a Toronto resident who's well aware of the way things work around here when it comes to the media and hockey coverage.

And..

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Originally Posted by The Budaj Bugatti View Post
Stars fan if I'm not mistaken.
Bingo.

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08-05-2008, 02:50 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by avsfan987 View Post
The Avs also hold the league record for most consecutive sellouts, I think you are way underestimating how good of a hockey market Colorado is......but that's just typical of most Canadians with a hockey superiority complex so I guess it's not your fault.
you gotta stop spouting that one out, like many markets what the avs call a sellout can be surprising. i was at many of those "sellouts" and they werent even close. not to mention since the lockout is hasnt been as good at all, with the team not being as dominant as it was. its more fun for me to watch, i enjoy this team more - but denver is an average to above average hockey city. and ive lived in it for ten years, and im not canadian.

when they are a top team people come, when they are average much less come - mostly the real fans. like most cities.

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08-05-2008, 02:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
Oh Canucks fans, keep wishing on a star.
In Vancouver, we have the Canucks. The Canucks are the only big sports story here. We have a CFL team too, but I'd wager more people here follow the NFL than the CFL.

Toronto thinks of itself as the center of Canada, and hockey is it's sport too. It has other teams, but no other sport gets near the amount of attention that hockey does.

In Colorado, you have the Rockies, Broncos, Nuggets, and even a team in the MLS. Vancouver doesn't even have that; they're pushing to get an expansion slot.

We're aware that the Avalanche have (had?) the longest running sellout streak, and it's impressive... but hockey isn't #1 in that market. Not only is hockey #1 in the Vancouver and Toronto markets, but because hockey is bigger in Canada than in the US, the websites we read for reports are Canadian (TSN.ca, sportsnet.ca, etc). Thus, Canadian players/teams get more attention.

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08-05-2008, 02:58 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan987 View Post
The Avs also hold the league record for most consecutive sellouts, I think you are way underestimating how good of a hockey market Colorado is......but that's just typical of most Canadians with a hockey superiority complex so I guess it's not your fault.
Consecutive sellouts mean jack when it comes to overall revenue. Colorado ranked 12th according to Forbes.com in overall revenue, 8th in current value of all 30 teams, and 10th in Operating Income.

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Old
08-05-2008, 03:03 PM
  #39
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Mats may leave Toronto, Sakic won't leave Colorado.

Plus, Toronto has the biggest media in the league.

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08-05-2008, 03:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
but denver is an average to above average hockey city.
Television ratings say otherwise (among other barometers): that is, that it's more than just an "average to above average hockey city." (And this extends to hockey beyond just the Avs or the NHL.) And for the other posters (since you weren't making this comparison yourself), comparisons with Canadian cities are irrelevant, because obviously, hockey is the #1 (and sometimes only) sport in those cities. Certainly when it comes to the US, Denver/Colorado is an extremely good hockey area.

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08-05-2008, 03:19 PM
  #41
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as usual i respect your arguement but my opinion remains what it is based off my time here. as for the original dispute, there is no comparison to toronto - the avs arent even no 1 in their own town. to be honest if the nuggets or rockies could find any level of consistently i think the avs would be 3 or 4. im not a hoops fan but i was blown away by the support the nuggets got in the playoff game i went to - and they werent a very good team at all. this market has a strong cultural mix that i think could put the nuggets over the top in this town if they could get their heads out of their butts. baseball is baseball, its tough to beat if its good. there is no competition with the broncos. i know this isnt your point but it goes in hand with my opinion.

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08-05-2008, 03:23 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
as usual i respect your arguement but my opinion remains what it is based off my time here. as for the original dispute, there is no comparison to toronto - the avs arent even no 1 in their own town. to be honest if the nuggets or rockies could find any level of consistently i think the avs would be 3 or 4. im not a hoops fan but i was blown away by the support the nuggets got in the playoff game i went to - and they werent a very good team at all. this market has a strong cultural mix that i think could put the nuggets over the top in this town if they could get their heads out of their butts. baseball is baseball, its tough to beat if its good. there is no competition with the broncos. i know this isnt your point but it goes in hand with my opinion.
nuggets are by far the #4 sport in Denver, they'll pretty much never pass the avs (I'll remind you that tickets to Nuggets playoff games were half the price of tickets to avs playoff games for the same seats). I wouldn't be surprised if the Crush pass the Nuggets some day

no one beats the broncos but the avs are #2, only drop to #3 if the rockies do something like they did last year

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08-05-2008, 03:27 PM
  #43
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i used to work at the pepsi center, i know the lay of the land. to say the nuggets couldnt compete, i can only assume youve never been there on a big night, or a playoff night. that crowd is louder than any avs game ive ever been to, and ive been to more than most short of ticket holders - and they were sellouts. if the avs tanked for two years and the nuggets were a contender at the same time i think youd be surprised how quickly things could change there.

if the rockies were anything like last year on a consistent basis they would blow the avs out of the water - baseball is by nature a much larger audience base than hockey. they have no 2 right in front of them if they could get it together.

i didnt go to the last nuggets playoff, so maybe its died out since as people have lost hope they will actually do something - but the base is there.

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08-05-2008, 03:32 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
i used to work at the pepsi center, i know the lay of the land. to say the nuggets couldnt compete, i can only assume youve never been there on a big night, or a playoff night. that crowd is louder than any avs game ive ever been to, and ive been to more than most short of ticket holders - and they were sellouts. if the avs tanked for two years and the nuggets were a contender at the same time i think youd be surprised how quickly things could change there.

if the rockies were anything like last year on a consistent basis they would blow the avs out of the water - baseball is by nature a much larger audience base than hockey. they have no 2 right in front of them if they could get it together.

i didnt go to the last nuggets playoff, so maybe its died out since as people have lost hope they will actually do something - but the base is there.
I could never sit through an NBA game, I tried once, it's impossible. but I highly doubt it was louder than the end of game 6 of the avs-wild game

and the avs have higher ticket prices (by a fair margin) and higher percent attendance, I doubt the nuggets would pass them

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08-05-2008, 03:41 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by falconski View Post
I could never sit through an NBA game, I tried once, it's impossible. but I highly doubt it was louder than the end of game 6 of the avs-wild game

and the avs have higher ticket prices (by a fair margin) and higher average attendance, I doubt the nuggets would pass them
no offense, then i cant see how you can even argue the point then. it was louder than many of the playoff games ive been to (much more intense) - and ive been to cup finals games against nj, double ot against the stars when drury scored, van, detroit playoffs and regular season games - ive seen them play some biggies. ill repeat i was blown away by what i saw at the nuggets game. people were out of their seats the entire game screaming on every possesion, it was sensory overload and it was a first round game. the whole ticket price thing plays to my side, if the nuggets became a contender people could afford to go. of course the avs have better attendance, theyre a better team. avs attendance is sluggish of late, and not a good flag to wave right now.

dont know how you can highly doubt anything if you dont know much about it.

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08-05-2008, 03:57 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
as usual i respect your arguement but my opinion remains what it is based off my time here. as for the original dispute, there is no comparison to toronto - the avs arent even no 1 in their own town. to be honest if the nuggets or rockies could find any level of consistently i think the avs would be 3 or 4. im not a hoops fan but i was blown away by the support the nuggets got in the playoff game i went to - and they werent a very good team at all. this market has a strong cultural mix that i think could put the nuggets over the top in this town if they could get their heads out of their butts. baseball is baseball, its tough to beat if its good. there is no competition with the broncos. i know this isnt your point but it goes in hand with my opinion.
Of course there is no comparison to Toronto--I think the relevant point deals with just a comparison of US markets (at least for this tangent of the thread). And I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing much here, if at all. I just don't think the point you're making in this particular post is the relevant one. If a US hockey city can only be considered good if hockey trumps the other major sports in town, even when those other teams are excelling, then we don't have a very useful definition for a good hockey city (since football, baseball, and to a lesser extent even basketball are more popular than hockey across the US). The relevant point to discuss is how much a city follows, engages in, and enjoys hockey, period, when compared to the rest of the country. And whether it's TV ratings (local NHL, national NHL, Olympic, college, etc.), participation rates, or almost any barometer, the Denver/Colorado area is an extremely good hockey area within the US.

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Old
08-05-2008, 04:01 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
no offense, then i cant see how you can even argue the point then. it was louder than many of the playoff games ive been to (much more intense) - and ive been to cup finals games against nj, double ot against the stars when drury scored, van, detroit playoffs and regular season games - ive seen them play some biggies. ill repeat i was blown away by what i saw at the nuggets game. people were out of their seats the entire game screaming on every possesion, it was sensory overload and it was a first round game. the whole ticket price thing plays to my side, if the nuggets became a contender people could afford to go. of course the avs have better attendance, theyre a better team. avs attendance is sluggish of late, and not a good flag to wave right now.

dont know how you can highly doubt anything if you dont know much about it.
1. the quality of the two teams is about the same right now, bottom half playoff team, avs attendance is better even with the higher ticket prices(so fewer people can afford to go)
2. If the nuggets became a contender ticket prices would raise and you know it, from what i see right now they're trying to draw peopel in with stars (and for some reason can't make it past round 1 of the playoffs)

and I mentioned game 6 of the avs-wild series because it was no crap the loudest building I've ever been in in my life

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08-05-2008, 04:02 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Mats may leave Toronto, Sakic won't leave Colorado.

Plus, Toronto has the biggest media in the league.
That and Sakic would work behind the scenes to provide the Avalanche with the best situation possible whether he stays or retires.

As for Toronto having the biggest media - it is, afterall, the centre of the universe.

The Leafs have had Sundin for the last 13 years and haven't made the playoffs the last four with him - they are concerned that the universe might come to an end if he were to play elsewhere.

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08-05-2008, 04:08 PM
  #49
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Because there isnt anyone who cares about players who arent involved with Toronto.

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08-05-2008, 04:13 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Mats may leave Toronto, Sakic won't leave Colorado.

Plus, Toronto has the biggest media in the league.
Toronto buffet's are huge.

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