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Old
08-05-2008, 07:58 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm all for dealing Prucha, but not for Babchuk.
id love to get ruutu.


maybe prucha for ruutu. ladd was dealt for ruutu but he has potential but was a 3rd liner for the canes. prucha scored more than ruutu but ruutu adds grit and skill.

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08-05-2008, 08:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
And when Boston was ready to give up on him, didn't he prove it with Edmonton? Then he was waived by Montreal the following year and then got cut from a lineup in Chicago where they had like 5 forwards on the IR at one point. I mean come on.



Okay which is it, is he this great "ES" player or does he need PP time to produce? Obviously he's solid at even strength and like everyone procduces even more when given PP time, so why was he waived twice and spent time on 5 teams in three years?

No doubt his best years were in Boston and I'm a fan of any small guy who can over come the odds and score like he did in the NHL. That said, at 2.5+ million a year, and a definate incapability to play defense, only a team in desparate need of scoring, is going to let this guy play for them.
He is great at even strength. He has shown this. He is a fast shifty and creative forward that creates oppotunities for others around him.

So why wasn't he used more on the PP in mtl? Easy. Alex Kovalev. He and Kovalev play a very simular game, especially on the PP, too many chefs in one kitchen. And I don't care what anyone says about his production in mtl, he hustled his buns off. Everyone in mtl will say otherwise, but I lived in mtl and watched many of his games. He wasn't the problem. Carboneau never put him with Koivu or ther skilled players. He simply didn't fit the system there. Now I didn't see him ever in Chicago so I can't comment there.

What do you think? He just suddenly came to Carolina and decided "hey, I'm gonna play hockey now!" He came in and started scoring gangbusters because lavi gave him the minutes, confidence, space and teammates to work with.

As for the incapability to play defence? . Can't even tell you how many 2-1 he broke up last year for the Canes by hard f-ing backchecking. he is anything but lazy.

You obviously haven't watched him or don't care to expand your view beyond a narrow look at the stats sheet. DO some homework before you make accusations perpetuated by the media and their blind sheep followers...

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Old
08-05-2008, 08:46 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDubinskyNYR17 View Post
id love to get ruutu.


maybe prucha for ruutu. ladd was dealt for ruutu but he has potential but was a 3rd liner for the canes. prucha scored more than ruutu but ruutu adds grit and skill.
You can forget getting Ruutu. We don't have enough physical forwards as it is and after moving Cole, Ruutu isn't going anywhere.

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Old
08-06-2008, 12:07 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
I would love to have Prucha on the Sens. He would be a great fit with Spezza and Heatley. What would the Rangers want for him? Prospect/pick would be nice......

Prucha-Spezza-Heatley
Vermette-Fisher-Alfredsson
Foligno-Kelly-Neil

That looks nice.....
I'll take Chris Neil, if available. If not, I'd sweeten the pot for Vermette, this way you guys could get a cheap scoring forward who has scored 30 goals and could score 25+ if given the ice time.

Don't get me wrong, Prucha's value is down, but I'm not going to say that he can't score, because he most definitely can.

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Old
08-06-2008, 08:54 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TRAINIAC View Post
What do you think? He just suddenly came to Carolina and decided "hey, I'm gonna play hockey now!" He came in and started scoring gangbusters because lavi gave him the minutes, confidence, space and teammates to work with.

As for the incapability to play defence? . Can't even tell you how many 2-1 he broke up last year for the Canes by hard f-ing backchecking. he is anything but lazy.
The ignorance of some people on here is just astounding. Samsonov was awesome defensively for us. I keep thinking back to all of the breakups he made just because he had the wheels to get back in time and knew how to take a player off the puck without taking a penalty.

It only takes the opinions of a few bitter fans to skew a player's reputation, regardless of how well they play as they mature or play in new surroundings.

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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
No he's not, he's a winger. He's played center a couple of times on the Rangers which only adds to his versatility.
Bah, the first website I opened up called him a center so I just took that. According to the Ranger's website, he's a RW. I would wish him good luck in trying to squeeze a good spot into our lineup when he's competing against Justin Williams, Patrick Eaves, and Scott Walker.


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08-06-2008, 09:09 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Why so? Why is it so bad? Prucha is a forward who's stock has dropped and Babchuk's stock had never increased from a minor leaguer. Cap is balanced and the Rangers aren't set with their defense and will need another solid Dman. The best situation is to trade what you have excess of for what you lack. The Rangers have excess forwards and lack a Dman. Carolina has a solid top 3 defensemen and have a quantity of decent d-men. Seems plausible to me.
The Hurricanes have three Top 4 defensemen and then a bunch of question marks. Of the question marks, Babchuk would be the most likely to claim a Top 4 spot.

Prucha is a RH shot. The Hurricanes have the following other RH wingers: Whitney, Samsonov, Eaves, Williams, Walker and LaRose. It's gotten so ridiculous that our Top 3 LWs for next season all shoot right-handed. Where does Prucha fit in?

His bread and butter two seasons ago was playing LW on the powerplay with Jagr, and he wouldn't get that opportunity here. In the situation he would be placed in here, it would be more likely that he plays 10 minutes a night and scores 7 goals. What is the point of dealing a *potential* Top 4 defenseman for a winger that isn't needed?

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08-06-2008, 11:56 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Andrew Hutchinson View Post
The Hurricanes have three Top 4 defensemen and then a bunch of question marks. Of the question marks, Babchuk would be the most likely to claim a Top 4 spot.

Prucha is a RH shot. The Hurricanes have the following other RH wingers: Whitney, Samsonov, Eaves, Williams, Walker and LaRose. It's gotten so ridiculous that our Top 3 LWs for next season all shoot right-handed. Where does Prucha fit in?

His bread and butter two seasons ago was playing LW on the powerplay with Jagr, and he wouldn't get that opportunity here. In the situation he would be placed in here, it would be more likely that he plays 10 minutes a night and scores 7 goals. What is the point of dealing a *potential* Top 4 defenseman for a winger that isn't needed?
Good points, thanks. Didn't realize how many right handed sticks you've got. That's a rareity as most teams are the other way around. I wonder if Carolina would trade forwards with someone just to change that, especialy if there is a need for a left handed stick on the PP.

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08-06-2008, 12:28 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Zach - #1 Canes Fan View Post
The ignorance of some people on here is just astounding...Bah, the first website I opened up called him a center so I just took that
I couldn't agree more about the ignorance....LOL, sorry dude you did it to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Zach - #1 Canes Fan View Post
...It only takes the opinions of a few bitter fans to skew a player's reputation...
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Originally Posted by TRAINIAC View Post
You obviously haven't watched him or don't care to expand your view beyond a narrow look at the stats sheet. DO some homework before you make accusations perpetuated by the media and their blind sheep followers...
I base my conclusion of Samsanov's game, not blindly from stat sheets, or by "just taking the information on the first website I opened". Instead it's by the decisions made by 4 GMs, to NOT keep him. GMs who get paid lots of money to make the right decisions and are far more qualified than anyone on this board. In 3 years, 4 GMs either traded, didn't resign, or waived him. He was waived twice, by intelligent people who know the game. If a player is talented, valuable and works hard, this doesn't happen to him. How many teams are counting on a guy who's been waived twice in two years by different GMs, to be their first line winger? For goodness sake, he was a healthy scratch from Chicago's lineup when they had 5guys on the IR including their top scoring forward in Havlat. That was a decision made by a coach, so add him to the count of intelligent people who didn't want to play this guy.

And please lets not forget that his best scoring years in, Boston, he played along side a very talented young playmaker and currently probably the best (Joe Thorton).

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Old
08-06-2008, 01:15 PM
  #34
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So, you go by the GMs decisions, rather than the stats?

Boston fans will tell you that Samsonov was an adept player there. After all, that's where he won the Calder.

He goes to Edmonton, and puts up 16 points in 19 regular season games, and 15 points in 24 playoff games. All this, playing only about 14:30 per game. But hey, obviously that's considered a failure. Clearly, he was not re-signed because he didn't produce, and not some other, completely logic, reason.

He goes to Montreal and apparently "fails" there. Even strength, he was better than any other Hab at the time. But, because he got very little powerplay time, on a team that couldn't score at even-strength, he "failed". And the powerplay time he got, as stated before, was with Kovalev, who both play a very similar type of game.

He gets waived to Chicago, where he is almost immediately put on the 3rd line. And then when he couldn't produce the same numbers while playing 3rd line minutes, he's scratched, and then waived to Carolina.

And as already stated, he succeeds in Carolina. And rightly gets re-signed there.

But hey, clearly he's a failure, despite the statistics saying otherwise. After all, fan opinion is what determines whether or not you're a good hockey player.

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08-06-2008, 01:25 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LaRoseByAnyOtherName View Post
So, you go by the GMs decisions, rather than the stats?

Boston fans will tell you that Samsonov was an adept player there. After all, that's where he won the Calder.

He goes to Edmonton, and puts up 16 points in 19 regular season games, and 15 points in 24 playoff games. All this, playing only about 14:30 per game. But hey, obviously that's considered a failure. Clearly, he was not re-signed because he didn't produce, and not some other, completely logic, reason.

He goes to Montreal and apparently "fails" there. Even strength, he was better than any other Hab at the time. But, because he got very little powerplay time, on a team that couldn't score at even-strength, he "failed". And the powerplay time he got, as stated before, was with Kovalev, who both play a very similar type of game.

He gets waived to Chicago, where he is almost immediately put on the 3rd line. And then when he couldn't produce the same numbers while playing 3rd line minutes, he's scratched, and then waived to Carolina.

And as already stated, he succeeds in Carolina. And rightly gets re-signed there.

But hey, clearly he's a failure, despite the statistics saying otherwise. After all, fan opinion is what determines whether or not you're a good hockey player.
And your opinion seems to be hi on him so he must be great. Good luck with him this year. Carolina's stategy worked well last year as they failed to make the playoffs while playing in the worst division in the league.

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08-06-2008, 01:39 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
And your opinion seems to be hi on him so he must be great. Good luck with him this year. Carolina's stategy worked well last year as they failed to make the playoffs while playing in the worst division in the league.
Thanks for coming out. You obviously don't care to hear other people's take on things, even when we've shown you with stats, in game evidence, linemate pairings, etc... that we're CLEARLY more knowledgeable about a player that is on our team. But whatever. No point in trying to show an opposite view on the matter if you're not willing to listen to anything...

/thread please


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Old
08-06-2008, 02:02 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
And your opinion seems to be hi on him so he must be great. Good luck with him this year. Carolina's stategy worked well last year as they failed to make the playoffs while playing in the worst division in the league.
Gotta love your style. Make an incredibly stupid proposal, get called out on it and then insult the team rather than admit to it.

p.s. I think 300+ man games lost had a little say in that.

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Old
08-06-2008, 03:42 PM
  #38
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Definitely not.

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08-06-2008, 07:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TRAINIAC View Post
Thanks for coming out. You obviously don't care to hear other people's take on things, even when we've shown you with stats, in game evidence, linemate pairings, etc... that we're CLEARLY more knowledgeable about a player that is on our team. But whatever. No point in trying to show an opposite view on the matter if you're not willing to listen to anything...

/thread please
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Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes View Post
Gotta love your style. Make an incredibly stupid proposal, get called out on it and then insult the team rather than admit to it.
...nah just figured it was a good way to end a dead-horse-beating conversation about a player that's been waived twice but is still clearly deserving of a #1line spot.

Like I said, I hope Sammy works out for you guys, I'm not as optomistic (maybe it's deluded). Either way, this year will clarify it.

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08-06-2008, 08:19 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
...nah just figured it was a good way to end a dead-horse-beating conversation about a player that's been waived twice but is still clearly deserving of a #1line spot.

Like I said, I hope Sammy works out for you guys, I'm not as optomistic (maybe it's deluded). Either way, this year will clarify it.
DUDE! HOLY F--K! We're not saying Sammy was a godsend on the habs or hawks. Did he play the best hockey in his career? No, no one is saying that. All we ARE saying is that he kinda got the raw end of the deal by his respective teams and BIG TIME by the media. He didn't play amazing, if he had he wouldn't have been waived, but what we are saying is that it was more a situation of circumstance rather than because of his actual play. Like I said, he didn't come to Carolina and suddenly decide to play hockey for 30 games. He was put into a situation where he was comfortable and he thrived. End of story. Why are you so opposed to this logic???

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Like I said, I hope Sammy works out for you guys...
Also, where did you ever say anything like this ^^^ in this thread?


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Old
08-06-2008, 09:02 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
...nah just figured it was a good way to end a dead-horse-beating conversation about a player that's been waived twice but is still clearly deserving of a #1line spot.

Like I said, I hope Sammy works out for you guys, I'm not as optomistic (maybe it's deluded). Either way, this year will clarify it.
Plenty of guys have been waived and then continued to be successful players. We're delusional? Are we making up that he played awesome for us down the stretch? Seriously, are all of us canes fans halucinating or something?

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Old
08-06-2008, 09:12 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by LaRoseByAnyOtherName View Post
Samsonov has scored 150 even strength goals and 167 ES assists in his career of 657 games (with a career +36), or roughly an even strength point every other game. This is considerable when you take into account that he began his NHL career as an 18-year old. At the ages of 21-22, he scored 58 goals in two seasons...52 of those coming at even strength.

Before Samsonov was waived from Montreal, he posted 22 even strength points in 63 games. Montreal's leading even strength scorer was Koivu with 29 points, which he achieved in 81 games. Samsonov scored at a nearly identical rate at even strength as Montreal's leading scorer. At the time Samsonov was waived, he was leading the team in ES points.

He was waived, because he apparently wasn't producing. He wasn't producing, because he wasn't getting powerplay time, which was Montreal's bread and butter.

He joins Carolina, and aquires 23 even strength points in 38 games with a +6 raiting. Clearly, he's nothing more than waiver wire fodder.

Oh, and full credit to Andrew Hutchinson for the analysis.
Sorry to interrupt. Montreal traded him to Chicago. We waived their trash, they waived ours. Samsonov was traded because he was a poor fit in Montreal. I can't tell you how many times i turned away from the TV in disgust. I was excited to get him as a Free Agent since he had had some great success with Boston, but if he isn't in the mood to play... he doesn't show up.

good luck in Carolina.

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