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Old
08-05-2008, 03:47 PM
  #1
Radek27
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Plan B

Ok I feel it's time to tell Mats thanks but no thanks and move onto plan B which I think I know what it could be, trade for Marian Gaborik. I know Gaborik makes 6 mil and would be tough to fit under the cap, but if Slats is trying to sign Sundin you know he has a way to wiggle cap space if he needs it. I just don't know of or see another player who could be up there as far as talent and scoring with Sundin as Gaby and who is actually available right now. I would part with any player on the roster except Lundy and Staal in a deal for Gaborik.

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08-05-2008, 03:49 PM
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otto1219
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i think plan B is to roll with what we have, we shouldnt trade away our future when next year kovalchuk and hossa are back on the market.

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08-05-2008, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Ok I feel it's time to tell Mats thanks but no thanks and move onto plan B which I think I know what it could be, trade for Marian Gaborik. I know Gaborik makes 6 mil and would be tough to fit under the cap, but if Slats is trying to sign Sundin you know he has a way to wiggle cap space if he needs it. I just don't know of or see another player who could be up there as far as talent and scoring with Sundin as Gaby and who is actually available right now. I would part with any player on the roster except Lundy and Staal in a deal for Gaborik.
There is so no possible way we can get Gabroik, if Sundin signed here he was getting around $2 million, we can't even get Shany resigned for a $ million right now, we are ****ed cap wise.

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Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
i think plan B is to roll with what we have, we shouldnt trade away our future when next year kovalchuk and hossa are back on the market.

I agree, i've no idea how these pieces are gonna fit toether though.

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08-05-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
i think plan B is to roll with what we have, we shouldnt trade away our future when next year kovalchuk and hossa are back on the market.
I totally agree with the first half of that statement. We'll go with what we have unless a great deal falls into our laps.

No thanks on MS.

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08-05-2008, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
i think plan B is to roll with what we have, we shouldnt trade away our future when next year kovalchuk and hossa are back on the market.
That's plan A for me. Enough of this Sundin talk and I definetely don't want to trade all of our prospects for a guy who pulls his groin every year.

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08-05-2008, 04:11 PM
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Just wondering guys, do you not believe our GM when he comes out and says he isn't done with the foward group or is it just denial? I'm tellin ya, if Sundin doesn't go through a trade is gonna happen for another top 6 player. We all say it ourselves, we have too many guys with not enough spots to go around. We lack a top 6 foward..........talk about being obvious.

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08-05-2008, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Just wondering guys, do you not believe our GM when he comes out and says he isn't done with the foward group or is it just denial? I'm tellin ya, if Sundin doesn't go through a trade is gonna happen for another top 6 player. We all say it ourselves, we have too many guys with not enough spots to go around. We lack a top 6 foward..........talk about being obvious.
we cant trade for a top 6 forward when we dont have any salary space. we have enough depth that we shouldnt worry about another top 6 forward. Zherdev, naslund, gomez, drury, dawes, dubinsky. those are a top 6 most teams would be happy with

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08-05-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
That's plan A for me. Enough of this Sundin talk and I definetely don't want to trade all of our prospects for a guy who pulls his groin every year.
Or for a guy who can score 5 goals in a game?

Let me get this right, Cherapanov, who has done NOTHING yet in America is untradable for us, but we don't want a guy like Gaborik who is 26 years old and a proven offensive powerhouse? Isnt this the kind of player we have been begging for since our dark days? Isn't this the kind of player that we lack in our system? Kovalchuk is going to cost 8 + mil to sign, where do you see him fiting in without a trade on our end?

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08-05-2008, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
we cant trade for a top 6 forward when we dont have any salary space. we have enough depth that we shouldnt worry about another top 6 forward. Zherdev, naslund, gomez, drury, dawes, dubinsky. those are a top 6 most teams would be happy with

Not a team like us who is going for a Cup. What did you hear in the interviews of the guys who signed here? Oh I feel they can win a cup, and they are a competing team. If we weren't Sundin woudln't be interested in us. That top 6 as is doesn't even ensure we make the playoffs.

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08-05-2008, 04:29 PM
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1. If the Rangers JUST signed a free agent a month ago they aren't going to trade them. In the history of the league can anybody name a free agent that was traded the same summer they were signed?

2. You can't go above the salary cap when the season starts

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo um how would the Rangers trade for Gaborik?

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08-05-2008, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Not a team like us who is going for a Cup. What did you hear in the interviews of the guys who signed here? Oh I feel they can win a cup, and they are a competing team. If we weren't Sundin woudln't be interested in us. That top 6 as is doesn't even ensure we make the playoffs.
Our defensive minded system makes sure we make the playoffs, our offense last year was atrocious and near the bottom of the league. Defense wins championships, the offense will work itself out.

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08-05-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
1. If the Rangers JUST signed a free agent a month ago they aren't going to trade them. In the history of the league can anybody name a free agent that was traded the same summer they were signed?

2. You can't go above the salary cap when the season starts

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo um how would the Rangers trade for Gaborik?
You really never heard of the term sign and trade? I'm not saying this is something thats gonna happen but it could. Tyutin was given his new contract just this past spring, is he still here? If we can afford to sign Sundin somehow I don't see how we can't find a way to get Gaborik in here.

And SOS, I do know that Neil Smith was signed and fired in the same summer.

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08-05-2008, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
You really never heard of the term sign and trade? I'm not saying this is something thats gonna happen but it could. Tyutin was given his new contract just this past spring, is he still here? If we can afford to sign Sundin somehow I don't see how we can't find a way to get Gaborik in here.

And SOS, I do know that Neil Smith was signed and fired in the same summer.
no one would ever sign with the rangers again if their policy was to sign a player and then trade them immediately.

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08-05-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
Our defensive minded system makes sure we make the playoffs, our offense last year was atrocious and near the bottom of the league. Defense wins championships, the offense will work itself out.
Yeah that was the thinking last year and with a guy like Jagr on the team. How did that turn out? Now subtract Jagr, Avery, and Straka............who scores? The declining Naslund? The Enigma that is Zherdev? The passing first center Gomez? You all seem convinced Petr Prucha is garbage, who scores for this team? Petr Nedved?????

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08-05-2008, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Yeah that was the thinking last year and with a guy like Jagr on the team. How did that turn out? Now subtract Jagr, Avery, and Straka............who scores? The declining Naslund? The Enigma that is Zherdev? The passing first center Gomez? You all seem convinced Petr Prucha is garbage, who scores for this team? Petr Nedved?????
when your number 1 line and powerplay line was dubinsky, straka and jagr, (nothing against dubi) its a miracle that gomez had 70+ points. This year given more ice time with a powerplay quarter back as well more stable line mates our offense should not be the problem. Both naslund and zherdev are about 60 point players if not more. I would much rather have zherdev and naslund than avery and straka. As for jagr, right now we may see him as irreplaceable, or as many people think, only replaceable with mats sundin, however, as stated so many times his stubborness held back our offensive system last year. I have tons of faith that drury and gomez will step up their play and production given a better environment.

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08-05-2008, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
You really never heard of the term sign and trade? I'm not saying this is something thats gonna happen but it could. Tyutin was given his new contract just this past spring, is he still here? If we can afford to sign Sundin somehow I don't see how we can't find a way to get Gaborik in here.

And SOS, I do know that Neil Smith was signed and fired in the same summer.

name ONE sign and trade in hockey...give us one example of a guy that signed as a free agent with a team and was traded the same summer...

tyutin is a poor example..he was resigned as a rfa...not an unrestricted free agent signing with the rangers to get traded 5 weeks later..

sundin may sign here at a discount but no can the rangers clear 6m for gaborik..its a pipe dream on a slow august day..

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08-05-2008, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
You really never heard of the term sign and trade? I'm not saying this is something thats gonna happen but it could. Tyutin was given his new contract just this past spring, is he still here? If we can afford to sign Sundin somehow I don't see how we can't find a way to get Gaborik in here.

And SOS, I do know that Neil Smith was signed and fired in the same summer.
Players tend to enter a sign and trade as a FA and are aware and supportive of the fact that their signing with one team to ultimately be traded to and play for another.

For example Marian Hossa for Dany Heatley.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=134320

EDIT: Also as previously mentioned I think it's commonly believed that Mats would be taking a pay cut to play in NY. Therefore it doesn't mean that we could afford Gaborik without a significant amount of salary going back to the Wild.


Last edited by D713B: 08-05-2008 at 05:59 PM.
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08-05-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by D713B View Post
Players tend to enter a sign and trade as a FA and are aware and supportive of the fact that their signing with one team to ultimately be traded to and play for another.

For example Marian Hossa for Dany Heatley.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=134320

EDIT: Also as previously mentioned I think it's commonly believed that Mats would be taking a pay cut to play in NY. Therefore it doesn't mean that we could afford Gaborik without a significant amount of salary going back to the Wild.
I think he means a guy who signed as a UFA to join at team who was then traded that summer. Hossa was already with the Sens and he was a RFA.

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08-05-2008, 06:08 PM
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I think he means a guy who signed as a UFA to join at team who was then traded that summer. Hossa was already with the Sens and he was a RFA.
exactly!!!

I'd love to know of ONE UFA that signed with another team to only get traded that same summer...BEFORE he ever puts on the uniform.......

Sign and trade deals only happen in the NBA because of a quirk in their salary cap rules......they are also players that are being resigned by a team and THEN moved to another team.....They are ALWAYS done with the player having full knowledge that he is about to be moved...

so to answer Radek27s question...No, I've never heard of a sign and trade...

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08-05-2008, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think he means a guy who signed as a UFA to join at team who was then traded that summer. Hossa was already with the Sens and he was a RFA.
I wasn't disagreeing with SOS. I was actually trying to help his argument by saying that players enter into a sign and trade willingly and that there are no cases of someone signing then being traded unbeknownst to him. I'm well aware that both players had previously played for the respective teams they originially signed with. And I didn't specify UFA or RFA. I provided the article to explain.

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08-05-2008, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
name ONE sign and trade in hockey...give us one example of a guy that signed as a free agent with a team and was traded the same summer...

tyutin is a poor example..he was resigned as a rfa...not an unrestricted free agent signing with the rangers to get traded 5 weeks later..

sundin may sign here at a discount but no can the rangers clear 6m for gaborik..its a pipe dream on a slow august day..
Oh come on, there has to be one guy that it has happened to i'm sure of it. I bet someone pops in here with a name. Probably won't be a big name player but i'm sure it's happened. And who says i'm saying Redden or Naslund will be traded? I never even said that about Rissmiller. There are other options to make it happen. We could deal Roszival...........he wasn't really a UFA signing, more of a resign. You said Tyutin wasn't a good example maybe that would be.

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08-05-2008, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think he means a guy who signed as a UFA to join at team who was then traded that summer. Hossa was already with the Sens and he was a RFA.
I never said any of that. I am saying I think obtaining Gaborik could be an option for us if Sundin doesn't come through. And I really doubt the offer we have on him is 2M like people here think. Either way salary is going to have to be moved. Who would you rather it be for? Gaborik or Sundin? You know Sather has a hard on for Sundin, remember that inside the Rangers draft thing a few years ago and the Leafs GM asked about one of our guys and Slats said right off the bat, "yeah if Sundin is available" only to be laughed at by the Leafs gm. Sather wants Mats and i'm sure he has a plan B in place if/when that falls through and i'm sure it's not Petr Nedved either.

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08-05-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Oh come on, there has to be one guy that it has happened to i'm sure of it. I bet someone pops in here with a name. Probably won't be a big name player but i'm sure it's happened. And who says i'm saying Redden or Naslund will be traded? I never even said that about Rissmiller. There are other options to make it happen. We could deal Roszival...........he wasn't really a UFA signing, more of a resign. You said Tyutin wasn't a good example maybe that would be.
So it's so common we can't come up with one name? Teams don't court and sign free agents just to trade them away....

The Rangers are not going to trade Rozsival to open up a hole on defense. Again they didn't outbid other teams to resign Rozsival just to trade him...Tyutin is a terrible example because he was resigned DURING the season, it's not like he was signed July 1st and traded on August 1st...

Short of starting playing the year with 9 forwards, how do you propose the Rangers clear the cap space to deal for Gaborik?

They aren't trading Drury and Gomez....

They aren't trading any of the guys they signed a month ago....

Gaborik isn't plan B through Z....The Rangers have no flexibilty to make such a move this time of year...however they could possibly do it at the deadline when contracts are pro-rated..(as long as they have the cap room to cover the remaining paychecks Gaborik would receive the rangers would be under the cap)

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08-05-2008, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I never said any of that. I am saying I think obtaining Gaborik could be an option for us if Sundin doesn't come through. And I really doubt the offer we have on him is 2M like people here think. Either way salary is going to have to be moved. Who would you rather it be for? Gaborik or Sundin? You know Sather has a hard on for Sundin, remember that inside the Rangers draft thing a few years ago and the Leafs GM asked about one of our guys and Slats said right off the bat, "yeah if Sundin is available" only to be laughed at by the Leafs gm. Sather wants Mats and i'm sure he has a plan B in place if/when that falls through and i'm sure it's not Petr Nedved either.
So Sather making a saracastic remark means he has a "hard on" for Sundin?

The Rangers could possibly end up with Sundin but it's going to HAVE to be at a discount....There is no other way around it..

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08-05-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
So Sather making a saracastic remark means he has a "hard on" for Sundin?

The Rangers could possibly end up with Sundin but it's going to HAVE to be at a discount....There is no other way around it..
I'm saying I know the type of guys Sather likes.........if he was a lion and traded away our two top prospects at the time for half a head Eric Lindros you know he's going to try and get Mats for only cash if he can. Slats is a lion lol


And looking at his roster he looks like a really big fat *****cat.

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