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Most improved team this offseason

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Old
08-10-2008, 12:07 AM
  #76
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well out west;

- the Wings are even better with the addition of Hossa, they are gonna be fun to watch and hard to play against.
- Sharks are better with the re-tooled puck moving D, a new coach, etc. several of their top players had off seasons last year, i look for them to rebound under the new coach.
- the Stars are better, more scoring and gritt

i really don't see much improvement from other teams out west, teams perhaps on the down side,

- Ducks, no teamu and a team that may not score as much,
- Yotes, got a center but lost 2 decent D which are hard to replace,
- nucks, older and behind pace with other teams,

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Old
08-10-2008, 02:16 AM
  #77
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I think it depends on whether we're talking about the greatest numerical increase or greatest percent increase. Basically, let's arbitrarily say Detroit's total strength before its off-season acquisitions was 500 units, and Phoenix's was 200. Let's also arbitrarily say losing Drake and gaining Hossa is worth a net gain of 40 units, and Phoenix's changes result in a net gain of 30 units. While Detroit's 40 units would definitely represent a greater quality increase than Phoenix's 30 units, Detroit is only getting 8% better, while Phoenix is getting 15% better.

If we calculate real numbers, I'd personally expect Detroit to have the greatest numerical increase, but teams like Phoenix, Tampa, and Chicago would have a greater percentage increase than Detroit.

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Old
08-10-2008, 05:10 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The GM View Post
- Yotes, got a center but lost 2 decent D which are hard to replace,
One of those D was available for nothing on waivers last off-season and nobody wanted him. He was a #6 guy. I wish people would realise this instead of over-emphasising that Phoenix "lost two good defenseman".

Ballard will be missed but Boynton is not significant nor especially hard to replace. He was likely included purely for salary purposes.

I wouldnt agree that Ballard > Jokinen either but nice to see someone valuing him that highly.

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Old
08-10-2008, 02:16 PM
  #79
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I thought the Islanders improved...

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Old
08-10-2008, 02:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
How could Montreal be up there and Philadelphia no where on that list when they just toyed with the Canadiens in the playoffs?

Montreal has got to be the most overrated team in the NHL for a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see them finish behind Boston and Ottawa in the NE while most Habs fans think they are already engraving their names on the cup. Let's see how they do when every team in the East views a game against the Habs as a "test". They'll be lucky to make the playoffs with that overachieving group of players being gunned for by every team in the East.

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08-10-2008, 02:42 PM
  #81
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Obviously the kings didn't improve to be "predicted" to reach ANYWHERE close to the last playoff spot but adding Stoll, Green, Gauthier made this team ALOT tougher to play against rather than having cammi and lubo. i think the kings only have 2 or 3 players under 6 feet. every team will probably beat the kings, but they're going to get concussions doing so.

good improvement on the team toughness and penalty killing area. The defense has yet to be seen with alot of changes. Only 2 dmen from last year's opening night roster are still on the team.

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Old
08-10-2008, 02:44 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
How could Montreal be up there and Philadelphia no where on that list when they just toyed with the Canadiens in the playoffs?
Easy. 82 games show more than 5 games.

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Old
08-10-2008, 02:51 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
Montreal has got to be the most overrated team in the NHL for a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see them finish behind Boston and Ottawa in the NE while most Habs fans think they are already engraving their names on the cup. Let's see how they do when every team in the East views a game against the Habs as a "test". They'll be lucky to make the playoffs with that overachieving group of players being gunned for by every team in the East.
Since when?

They're consider a top team in the league since what... the last month of the regular season?

...and habs fans are considered cocky...

For the first time in years, I can't wait for the season to begin to make you eat your words...

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Old
08-10-2008, 02:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
Montreal has got to be the most overrated team in the NHL for a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see them finish behind Boston and Ottawa in the NE while most Habs fans think they are already engraving their names on the cup. Let's see how they do when every team in the East views a game against the Habs as a "test". They'll be lucky to make the playoffs with that overachieving group of players being gunned for by every team in the East.
Right...that's why every analyst and publication had us out of the playoffs for the last 2-3 years?

All of a sudden our players start developing and we're "overrated". Wow, congrats...

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Old
08-10-2008, 03:20 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
One of those D was available for nothing on waivers last off-season and nobody wanted him. He was a #6 guy. I wish people would realise this instead of over-emphasising that Phoenix "lost two good defenseman".

Ballard will be missed but Boynton is not significant nor especially hard to replace. He was likely included purely for salary purposes.

I wouldnt agree that Ballard > Jokinen either but nice to see someone valuing him that highly.
Actually, Boynton has a pretty good defensive game with the ability to move the puck out of the zone. Along with a willingness to rough up the opposition and stick up for his teamates, he will be a decent addition for Florida and a hole for the Yotes.

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Old
08-10-2008, 08:19 PM
  #86
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Dude, they have Todd White as their #1 center or something. That's pretty terrible. They might not be cellar dwellers, but that's only because Florida might be even more terrible. Well, and who knows what the hell will happen with Tampa (lol Mike Smith)
Hey its about time someone gave atlanta some love...i hope they do better than everyone expects...sick of the atlanta bashing

i wouldnt be too quick to rag on mike smith either, i saw him this year alot in dallas and for the first half of the year he wasnt the back up... he had marty turcos job as the number 1!!! he had a good teething year last year and will be the most improved goaly in the NHL, i can see him doing what leclaire did last year.

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Old
08-11-2008, 02:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
Actually, Boynton has a pretty good defensive game with the ability to move the puck out of the zone. Along with a willingness to rough up the opposition and stick up for his teamates, he will be a decent addition for Florida and a hole for the Yotes.
His defensive game wasn't that impressive and he took a lot of penalties. Something that won't be missed, along with his bad salary. While both David Hale and Matt Jones aren't the full replacement, at least their PIMs won't be killing us.

Ballard played a shut-down role last year, hence why his point totals were a little low. Sauer doesn't have as much offensive potential as Ballard, but he can play that shut-down role probably just as well.

The Coyotes gained a lot more by adding a #1 center than they lost by taking a downgrade for a freakin' #6 defenseman.

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Old
08-11-2008, 03:50 PM
  #88
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Flyers lost:

Umberger (CBJ)
Smith (OTT)
Prospal (TB)
Hatcher (if placed on LTIR)
Dowd (if he doesn't get a try-out)
Kapanen (Retired)
Tolpeko (Europe)
Thoresen (Europe)

Flyers gained:

Gagne (LTIR)
Giroux (Jrs.)
Metropolit (BOS)
Eminger (WAS)
Vaananen (Europe)
Asham (NJD)


Me like!

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Old
08-11-2008, 04:44 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
Montreal has got to be the most overrated team in the NHL for a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see them finish behind Boston and Ottawa in the NE while most Habs fans think they are already engraving their names on the cup. Let's see how they do when every team in the East views a game against the Habs as a "test". They'll be lucky to make the playoffs with that overachieving group of players being gunned for by every team in the East.
You mean like what nearly happened to the Sens last season?

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Old
08-11-2008, 06:20 PM
  #90
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For all of you who said the Yotes improved over last season:

Well, we finally have a legitimate #1 center in Jokinen, thatīs great. But we lost our top goal scorer from last season (Vrbata), experienced guys like York, Kapanen, Tjarnqvist, an hard-nosed guy in Weller and Ballard and Boynton (BTW, didnīt realize Boynton was our #6 defenseman last season - I thought he was at least higher on the depth chart than Yandle and Jones).

On defense we signed Sauer and Hale. Sauer will be asked to play on the second pairing and Hale will battle Jones for the sixth spot. I have no clue how you can call that an upgrade over last seasonīs squad.

On offense we will have a legitimate first line in Doan-Jokinen-Mueller. I think Turris, Carcillo and Hanzal are locks to make the team. The other jobs are up for grab at camp and it could very well end in the Yotes dressing 9 rookies/sophomores next season on offense.

Donīt get me wrong, they have a lot of talent, but playing that many rookies / 2nd year players wonīt give you the much needed experience at the NHL level to play an over .500 season.

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Old
08-11-2008, 06:34 PM
  #91
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I don't know why everyone is saying the Wings got much better and lost noone.

For one, their Stanley cup goalie retired. No more splitting the Job. Can Osgood do well for all of regular season and the playoffs? Another thing, they may not of lost many players but a lot of their older players are getting worse. I don't know much about the Detroit prospect pool or any of their younger players...(except franzen) but I would imagine with them always winning they can't have had that great picks. I don't know if you guys agree with me or not. I don't really follow the West so much so this is a pretty amateur analysis but please let me know what you think.

I think it's Tampa as #1 most improved. They finished dead last last year and now they are playoff contenders. As for the #2, I would have to go to the west's Phoenix.

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Old
08-11-2008, 09:22 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by WestgateCoyote View Post
But we lost our top goal scorer from last season (Vrbata)
Actually Doan was our top goal scorer, since Vrbata tailed off towards the end. Jokinen will more than make up Vrbata's offensive contributions.

experienced guys like York, Kapanen, Tjarnqvist, an hard-nosed guy in Weller and Ballard and Boynton
Nobody should be crying over York, Kapanen, Tjarnqvist, or York again for emphasis. Weller, Ballard, and Boynton will be missed. However, Sauer is essentially replacing Ballard and Hale/Jones are somewhat decent replacemnt for Boynton/

(BTW, didnīt realize Boynton was our #6 defenseman last season - I thought he was at least higher on the depth chart than Yandle and Jones).
I'll give you that. Boynton was at least #5.

On defense we signed Sauer and Hale. Sauer will be asked to play on the second pairing and Hale will battle Jones for the sixth spot. I have no clue how you can call that an upgrade over last seasonīs squad.
From my knowledge, nobody has called an upgrade. It's a downgrade, not a big one though.

Donīt get me wrong, they have a lot of talent, but playing that many rookies / 2nd year players wonīt give you the much needed experience at the NHL level to play an over .500 season
We were (I think) the youngest team in the NHL last year, but still managed a game above .500, plus we were also serious playoff runners until towards the end when the team went cold.
A agree though, we're not the most improved in the West. That belongs to Chicago IMO.

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Old
08-12-2008, 04:31 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
I don't know why everyone is saying the Wings got much better and lost noone.

For one, their Stanley cup goalie retired. No more splitting the Job. Can Osgood do well for all of regular season and the playoffs? Another thing, they may not of lost many players but a lot of their older players are getting worse. I don't know much about the Detroit prospect pool or any of their younger players...(except franzen) but I would imagine with them always winning they can't have had that great picks. I don't know if you guys agree with me or not. I don't really follow the West so much so this is a pretty amateur analysis but please let me know what you think.

I think it's Tampa as #1 most improved. They finished dead last last year and now they are playoff contenders. As for the #2, I would have to go to the west's Phoenix.

Take a look at where players like zetterberg, datsyuk, holmstrom, lidstrom, filppula, and franzen were drafted....(cough 3rd round was the highest...most noteably zetter and dats were 7th and 6th round picks...holmstrom was a 10th rounder)... stanley cup goalie retired? pretty sure osgood played every game after they lost 2 to nashville in the first round. Def not the most improved team, but c'ommon now, still the strongest BECAUSE of drafting.

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Old
08-12-2008, 06:57 AM
  #94
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Anyone who says "Detroit is the most improved team, end of thread" needs to think again about the meaning of "improved".

They were a great team anyway. They added one great player in Hossa, and lost a goalie in Hasek. They improved quite a bit, yes, but I wouldn't say they were the most improved team.

My vote would have to go to the Lightning. They were pretty bad last season and now they're looking decent. This season should see a return to form for them.

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Old
08-12-2008, 09:42 AM
  #95
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which teams do you think have improved the most this offseason and/or the team who has gotten worse

Tampa Bay made the most progress IMO. They added some key players to their lineup and they have an experienced goaltender now too.

Toronto got worse.....no explanation needed really. They are losing Sundin, Tucker and McCabe.....3 of their best players.

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Old
08-12-2008, 10:52 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by WestgateCoyote View Post
For all of you who said the Yotes improved over last season:

Well, we finally have a legitimate #1 center in Jokinen, thatīs great. But we lost our top goal scorer from last season (Vrbata), experienced guys like York, Kapanen, Tjarnqvist, an hard-nosed guy in Weller and Ballard and Boynton (BTW, didnīt realize Boynton was our #6 defenseman last season - I thought he was at least higher on the depth chart than Yandle and Jones).

On defense we signed Sauer and Hale. Sauer will be asked to play on the second pairing and Hale will battle Jones for the sixth spot. I have no clue how you can call that an upgrade over last seasonīs squad.

On offense we will have a legitimate first line in Doan-Jokinen-Mueller. I think Turris, Carcillo and Hanzal are locks to make the team. The other jobs are up for grab at camp and it could very well end in the Yotes dressing 9 rookies/sophomores next season on offense.

Donīt get me wrong, they have a lot of talent, but playing that many rookies / 2nd year players wonīt give you the much needed experience at the NHL level to play an over .500 season.
I was thinking exactly the same things when I read this topic and saw so many people cheering for Phoenix. Jokinen is a big acceptance, but Phoenix lost lot of players after the last season, just like WestgateCoyote said. I think they are better than last year, but most improvement team? I don't think so.
Tampa bay goes ahead of them - not because they got so many good players this year but because they sucked last year.

And also Red Wings has improved alot from last season. Hossa alone is a huge improvement and we should also not forget all that experience what their young guys got from last season. This years Red Wings are better team (on a paper and consider only not-inside-players-head-things) than last years but they can lose all the edge if they don't have that same hungry anymore this year, which would not be very big surprise.

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Old
08-12-2008, 12:35 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
For one, their Stanley cup goalie retired. No more splitting the Job. Can Osgood do well for all of regular season and the playoffs? Another thing, they may not of lost many players but a lot of their older players are getting worse. I don't know much about the Detroit prospect pool or any of their younger players...(except franzen) but I would imagine with them always winning they can't have had that great picks. I don't know if you guys agree with me or not. I don't really follow the West so much so this is a pretty amateur analysis but please let me know what you think.
High draft picks makes a team good. Low draft picks makes them consistant. If you can draft good players with low picks ... you make the playoffs 17 years strait winning 4 cups and 6 presidents trophys. And which older player got worse? Lidstrom? The only one i'm worried about is Osgood, but we have Conklin and Howard to back him up. I feel vary confident with our goalie situation.

And our Stanley Cup goalie did not retire! Hasek did, but he only played 4 games!

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Old
08-13-2008, 12:30 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by WestgateCoyote View Post
For all of you who said the Yotes improved over last season:

Well, we finally have a legitimate #1 center in Jokinen, thatīs great. But we lost our top goal scorer from last season (Vrbata), experienced guys like York, Kapanen, Tjarnqvist, an hard-nosed guy in Weller and Ballard and Boynton (BTW, didnīt realize Boynton was our #6 defenseman last season - I thought he was at least higher on the depth chart than Yandle and Jones).

On defense we signed Sauer and Hale. Sauer will be asked to play on the second pairing and Hale will battle Jones for the sixth spot. I have no clue how you can call that an upgrade over last seasonīs squad.

On offense we will have a legitimate first line in Doan-Jokinen-Mueller. I think Turris, Carcillo and Hanzal are locks to make the team. The other jobs are up for grab at camp and it could very well end in the Yotes dressing 9 rookies/sophomores next season on offense.

Donīt get me wrong, they have a lot of talent, but playing that many rookies / 2nd year players wonīt give you the much needed experience at the NHL level to play an over .500 season.
I don't agree with all of this, but I think this it's fair in that it offsets all the posts about the Coyotes improvement which ignored their losses.

Another poster mentioned the 'hole' left by Boynton's departure (I totally disagree he left a hole from a defensive standpoint, the only hole is what he brought physically/leadership). That said, I think if you take this 'hole' viewpoint it is a great way to assess improvement/deterioration:

Last year there was a blatant hole at the #1 Center position. This is easily proved as Joel Perrault spent more time than any other center on the #1 line (with Doan/Mueller). No holes on D with a legitimate #1, 3 legitimate top 4 dmen, and Boynton & Yandle/Jones as the 5-6 dmen. The bottom 9 forward spots was filled with 8 players who provided NHL-level value via either scoring, checking, or toughness (Vrbata, Hanzal, Carcillo, Tjarnqvist, Kapanen, Weller, Winnik, Rheinprecht) and there was one blatant hole (York).

Exit Vrbata, Tjarnqvist, Kapanen, Weller, (I don't understand why you would bother mentioning York, and I am one of the few who feel that he tried, and appreciate that he was a good teammate, even if he sucked).

Exit Weller, enter Todd Fedoruk - this is an upgrade as he will score more, and more proactively stand up for his teammates (even if he does lose a lot of fights). Unfortunately Weller was too passive (see Laracque) most of the time. Fedoruk also fills the physical hole left by Boynton's exodus.

Exit Kapanen, enter Enver Lisin - this is an upgrade - for those who don't know about Enver Lisin, you'll just have to find out next season.

Exit Tjarnqvist - I consider this a hole next season, as he was an incredible PK'er and his shot-blocking skills/fearlessness were reminiscent of Mike Ricci in his prime. That said, it's an extremely one-dimensional hole which will be offset by players like McGratton and one of the follwing wildcards: Kevin Porter/Boedker/Tikhonov. Assuming one of the latter take this spot & not McGratton, by seasons end, this is an upgrade

Exit Vrbata, enter Turris - This is a tough nut to crack....do you look at his scoring the first 3/4's of the season, or last 1/4 of the season. Was his success the result of getting 1st pp minutes. If so, will his goal scoring be replaced by Kyle Turris who will fill this role and slots exactly into his spot on the half-wall? I think Turris will turn in a season similar to Gagner's last year and plug this hole.

Exit Boynton, enter Sauer - I think the biggest oversight is people trying to plug Sauer into Ballard's role. I agree with other's that Ballard was not asked to provide offense, and that Sauer can fill the defensive role that Ballard did. However, to be fair I think you have to consider Sauer as Boynton's replacement...and an even swap, if not an upgrade.

Exit Ballard, enter hole...no, not David Hale, just a 'hole'.

In summary, they have filled a glaring hole (#1 center), and have created a significant hole (#3/4 dman with lots of valuable intangibles). I'd take this exchange any day. In addition, I think they have upgraded several positions, and they won't be wasting a spot by icing Mike York. Another oversight IMO is the value added by Carcillo with Fedoruk/McGratton allowing him to focus on scoring instead of fighting, along with a year of maturity to hopefully cut his misconducts in half. Also, I don't buy into any of the sophmore slump talk with Mueller or Hanzal, they are products of NHL style teams/coaches (Everrett-Constantine/Red Deer-Sutter). Lastly, Bryzgalov should improve his consistency with a year under the belt as the full-time starter.

I wouldn't say the Coyotes are the most improved, but I think they are the most improved relative to their spending, which was $0.

This is a better team on paper than any team in Coyote history. Better than Roenick, Tkachuk, Khabibulin, Teppo. That team had good character support, but ZERO youth.

They now have Jokinen, Doan, Jovo, Brygalov. Pre-season Calder candidate Turris. A poor-man's Teppo with Michalek. Great sophmores in Hanzal, Mueller, & Carcillo. Excellent character support with Morris, Rhino, Fedoruk, Winnik (& youth), and high-end prospects out the ying yang (Boedker, Tikhonov, Porter, Kolarik, MacLean).

I wish the season started tomorrow.

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Old
08-13-2008, 12:51 PM
  #99
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Stanley Cup Champions lose no one...gain Hossa..
End of thread..

Also..Phoenix..
Phoenix will be good, but they did lose a lot.

Boynton was a serviceable 2nd/3rd pairing guy and Ballard was well on his way to being a great top pairing defenseman.

They also lost Vrbata, who was one of their biggest point producers, as well as Hossa who played well for them down the stretch.

Adding Jokinen is great and all, but their defense will look something like;

Jovonovski - Michalek
Morris - Sauer
Jones - Yandle
Hale

I'd say they haven't improved all that much, aside from the fact that their young guns will be improved.

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Old
08-13-2008, 01:00 PM
  #100
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How could Montreal be up there and Philadelphia no where on that list when they just toyed with the Canadiens in the playoffs?

DETROIT
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-
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-
-
-
-
-
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Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Dallas, San Jose
_
_
_
_A whole load of other teams
First, Montreal outplayed Philadelphia in nearly every game. The series was more Martin Biron beating Carey Price, badly. Umberger played a big role too, but still.. if Price didn't suck so bad or Biron didn't look like Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, the series would of have been easily Montreal's.

I'd go (for Stanley Cup winners);

Detroit



Montreal, Philadelphia, Dallas, San Jose


New York Rangers, New Jersey Devils, Chicago Blackhawks, Washington Capitals, Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers


Everyone else

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