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Old
08-12-2008, 09:17 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Kostitsyn3 View Post
AKost-Plekanec-Kovalev-------------- (Understandable)
Higgins-Koivu-Tanguay---------------- (SKost on third line? Tanguay RW?)
Latendresse-Lapierre-SKost----------- (Skost on third line? Lats LW?)
Begin-Chipchura-Kostopoulos/Laraque (Kosto and BGL spliting time? Kosto back to RW)

I found their Projections Wierd. I thought that Tanguay would be 1st LW dropping AKost down to play with his brother and Koivu. I thought Higgins and Chipper would be on the third to be shutdown forwards and have Lats playing on their RW. I thought we would keep Kosto on LW and give him full time there and Laraque full time on RW with Lapierre in the middle.

Just everything about their projections were a little off. I know we disgust lines alot but, thoughts?

I don't mind these lines, but I would rather see some changes. The lines I would try would be.....

Tanguay - Plekanec - Kovalev
S.Kostitsyn - Koivu - A.Kostitsyn
Higgins - Chipchura - Latendresse
Kostopoulos - Lapierre - Laraque

Line 1: I think Tanguay would benefit from playing with Kovalev and Plekanec. The best thing for Tanguay would be to score goals and play a wide open game instead of a defensive role.
Line 2: I wanna see the Kostitsyn brothers play together on the same line. The few times they were on the ice together last year, they were awesome.
Line 3: This line wouldn't be much of an offensive line, they would be more defensive IMO, but they would be quite capable of scoring a few goals as well.
Line 4: This is the energy line. They go out and annoy the other team, throw a lot of body checks and rough it up as much as possible. As far as I'm concerned...Begin doesn't belong. He will get hurt in his 4th game and miss the next 45 games....so why bother putting him in the lineup at all.

Dandenault should be placed on waivers. There is no room for him on the Habs roster. His veteran knowledge and playoff experience means nothing IMO. He brings nothing to the lineup. He's not good enough to play forward and he is a pathetic defencemen, I would rather have Brisebois back for another year as our 7th defencemen than to keep Dandy around at all. Give some rookies a chance, or make a big trade that will help the team.

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Old
08-12-2008, 09:25 AM
  #52
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Personally, I don't really worry about the forwards.

I worry about the defense.

We had the best offense last season, but not the best defense. We have very good defensemen, but very weak ones as well. I don't care if Gorges, Bouillon and Brisebois played well, they are still weak defensemen on any top teams.

We are a top team.

If Sundin comes or not, we will have great lines.

Personally, with the arrival of a great left wing in Alex Tanguay would allow Carbonneau to put 3 very good players on the same line: Tanguay, Koivu and Kovalev.

When did Koivu ever had good seasons? When he played with great players or players with great seasons. Koivu is not a one man show like Kovalev, he needs support, he will shine and help others shine if they can pull their weight.

He can produce 70-75 points, and nowadays, at 4 millions per year, it's a bargain.

So, I would like to see Koivu centering Kovalev and Tanguay, our 3 best players in their position. Yes, Plekanec is destined to become as good as Koivu, but still, I think Saku has the edge when playing with good players. And I don't think anyone can dispute that Tanguay is a better left wing than Andrei or Christopher. And since we only have one good right wing, we might as well use him with the best players.

Because the second line wouldn't be too shabby. I would put Tomas with the Kostitsyn brothers. I really liked what I saw in them the few times they played together last season. Some of our best goals were with the Kostitsyn bros.

On the third line, that's where it gets tricky. It will be a fight between Lapierre and Chipchura. But I think Maxime as an edge over Kyle. But at least there's definitely room for Kyle on the 4th line.

But on the wings, it gets even more problematic in my humble opinion. We have both Higgins and Latendresse as left wings and both Laraque and Kostopoulos as right wing. But the first two cannot, or normally shouldn't have to play with the last two.

The only other option is Matt D'Agostini, a natural right wing.

I see another young guy that could stir thing sup: Max Pacioretty, a left wing.

I think either Higgins or Latendresse will convert as a right wing, and play with Lapierre.

On the 4th line, it should be Chipchura with Laraque and Bégin, with Kostopoulos and a young kid, possibly D'Agostini or Max Pacioretty as backups.

In recap:

Alex Tanguay, Saku Koivu, Alex Kovalev
Andrei Kostitsyn, Tomas Plekanec, Sergei Kostitsyn
Christopher Higgins, Maxime Lapierre, Guillaume Latendresse
Steve Bégin, Kyle Chipchura, George Laraque
Tom Kostopoulos and Matt d'Agostini as backups, since we are weak on the right wing.

MHO.

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08-12-2008, 09:32 AM
  #53
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how bout we put our stars all in the same basket and bring back the CAT all at once

Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev
Higgins-Plekanec-A.Kostitsyn
Latendresse-Chipchura-S.Kost
Kostopoulos-Lappierre-Laraque

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Old
08-12-2008, 09:38 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Bigras View Post
In recap:

Alex Tanguay, Saku Koivu, Alex Kovalev
Andrei Kostitsyn, Tomas Plekanec, Sergei Kostitsyn
Christopher Higgins, Maxime Lapierre, Guillaume Latendresse
Steve Bégin, Kyle Chipchura, George Laraque
Tom Kostopoulos and Matt d'Agostini as backups, since we are weak on the right wing.

MHO.
Interesting. But too many puck carriers on your top two lines and not enough shooters/guys to go in the corners/garbage goal scorers.


Koivu and Tanguay I see as a good combo.

I like that you have the flying titsyns together.




And our problem with defense last year wasn't our d-men, it was our bottom two lines.


There are too many so-so defensive people on those lines.

Ryder and Latendresse were wastes as bottom line players, Kostopoulos is a 4th liner, so is Lapierre, so is Begin, so is Laraque.. Chipchura is unproven.. etc.

Smolinski (who was actually one of the good bottom liner) we lost.



This year, we either hope that Lapierre and Chipchura pick up their game significantly.. or we need to bring in a new centre to shore up the bottom 2.

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08-12-2008, 09:40 AM
  #55
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that always has been my starting lines too

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Old
08-12-2008, 11:55 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostitsyn3 View Post
AKost-Plekanec-Kovalev-------------- (Understandable)
Higgins-Koivu-Tanguay---------------- (SKost on third line? Tanguay RW?)
Latendresse-Lapierre-SKost----------- (Skost on third line? Lats LW?)
Begin-Chipchura-Kostopoulos/Laraque (Kosto and BGL spliting time? Kosto back to RW)

I found their Projections Wierd. I thought that Tanguay would be 1st LW dropping AKost down to play with his brother and Koivu. I thought Higgins and Chipper would be on the third to be shutdown forwards and have Lats playing on their RW. I thought we would keep Kosto on LW and give him full time there and Laraque full time on RW with Lapierre in the middle.

Just everything about their projections were a little off. I know we disgust lines alot but, thoughts?
TSN is not coaching or managing the Habs. their line make up are no worse or no better than the ones that US, the armchairs GM's are making on this board. Don't loose sleep about it ! Tanguay will probably play with Koivu. LW or RW, I dunno. He can play on either. But Carbo might decide to place him with Kovy and Pleks, and move A.Kost with Koivu and Higgins or S.Kost.

My main concern is the third line center. Lapierre nor Chipchura can't provide enough play making skills or offence on that third line that Carbo wants as another offensive weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD View Post
Interesting. But too many puck carriers on your top two lines and not enough shooters/guys to go in the corners/garbage goal scorers.


Koivu and Tanguay I see as a good combo.

I like that you have the flying titsyns together.




And our problem with defense last year wasn't our d-men, it was our bottom two lines.


There are too many so-so defensive people on those lines.

Ryder and Latendresse were wastes as bottom line players, Kostopoulos is a 4th liner, so is Lapierre, so is Begin, so is Laraque.. Chipchura is unproven.. etc.

Smolinski (who was actually one of the good bottom liner) we lost.



This year, we either hope that Lapierre and Chipchura pick up their game significantly.. or we need to bring in a new centre to shore up the bottom 2.
Smolinski is not LOST.. He is just unsigned. If Sundin says no to the Habs, don't be surprised to see Gainey give him a call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
how bout we put our stars all in the same basket and bring back the CAT all at once

Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev
Higgins-Plekanec-A.Kostitsyn
Latendresse-Chipchura-S.Kost
Kostopoulos-Lappierre-Laraque
Koivu with Kovalev ??? Won't work... Never worked. Why change a winning combination of Pleks and Kovy ? Kovalev will have to play on the point during PP this year, now that Streit is gone. That's about the only times that Kovy and Saku will be on the ice together.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 08-12-2008 at 12:17 PM.
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Old
08-12-2008, 12:55 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Bigras View Post
Personally, I don't really worry about the forwards.

I worry about the defense.

We had the best offense last season, but not the best defense. We have very good defensemen, but very weak ones as well. I don't care if Gorges, Bouillon and Brisebois played well, they are still weak defensemen on any top teams.

We are a top team.

If Sundin comes or not, we will have great lines.

Personally, with the arrival of a great left wing in Alex Tanguay would allow Carbonneau to put 3 very good players on the same line: Tanguay, Koivu and Kovalev.

When did Koivu ever had good seasons? When he played with great players or players with great seasons. Koivu is not a one man show like Kovalev, he needs support, he will shine and help others shine if they can pull their weight.

He can produce 70-75 points, and nowadays, at 4 millions per year, it's a bargain.

So, I would like to see Koivu centering Kovalev and Tanguay, our 3 best players in their position. Yes, Plekanec is destined to become as good as Koivu, but still, I think Saku has the edge when playing with good players. And I don't think anyone can dispute that Tanguay is a better left wing than Andrei or Christopher. And since we only have one good right wing, we might as well use him with the best players.

Because the second line wouldn't be too shabby. I would put Tomas with the Kostitsyn brothers. I really liked what I saw in them the few times they played together last season. Some of our best goals were with the Kostitsyn bros.

On the third line, that's where it gets tricky. It will be a fight between Lapierre and Chipchura. But I think Maxime as an edge over Kyle. But at least there's definitely room for Kyle on the 4th line.

But on the wings, it gets even more problematic in my humble opinion. We have both Higgins and Latendresse as left wings and both Laraque and Kostopoulos as right wing. But the first two cannot, or normally shouldn't have to play with the last two.

The only other option is Matt D'Agostini, a natural right wing.

I see another young guy that could stir thing sup: Max Pacioretty, a left wing.

I think either Higgins or Latendresse will convert as a right wing, and play with Lapierre.

On the 4th line, it should be Chipchura with Laraque and Bégin, with Kostopoulos and a young kid, possibly D'Agostini or Max Pacioretty as backups.

In recap:

Alex Tanguay, Saku Koivu, Alex Kovalev
Andrei Kostitsyn, Tomas Plekanec, Sergei Kostitsyn
Christopher Higgins, Maxime Lapierre, Guillaume Latendresse
Steve Bégin, Kyle Chipchura, George Laraque
Tom Kostopoulos and Matt d'Agostini as backups, since we are weak on the right wing.

MHO.

Koivu and Kovalev don't play well together. They might be able to team up in the playoffs when the team needs to win, but for the whole season??? It won't work.

Koivu and Kovalev are 2 very different players with different styles. Koivu likes to cycle the puck downlow in the corners and then try for a play in front of the net and Kovalev likes to carry the puck and set things up along the sideboards. We would be holding them both back by putting them on the same line together.....they need to be able to play their own game.

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Old
08-12-2008, 01:00 PM
  #58
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I'm still for;

A. Kost - Pleks - Kovy
Tanguay - Koivu - Latendresse
Higgins - Chipchura - S. Kost
TKO - Lapierre - Laraque
Begin, Dandenault

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08-12-2008, 01:15 PM
  #59
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we need SHOOTERS...

A line of tanguay-koivu-s.kost would not score many goals, no matter the talent these 3 have.


Tanguay-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Plek-Kovy
S.Kost-Chip-Lats
BGL-Lapierre-(whoever plays better)

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08-12-2008, 01:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
we need SHOOTERS...

A line of tanguay-koivu-s.kost would not score many goals, no matter the talent these 3 have.


Tanguay-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Plek-Kovy
S.Kost-Chip-Lats
BGL-Lapierre-(whoever plays better)
this one i could really work with

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Old
08-12-2008, 01:41 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
we need SHOOTERS...

A line of tanguay-koivu-s.kost would not score many goals, no matter the talent these 3 have.


Tanguay-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Plek-Kovy
S.Kost-Chip-Lats
BGL-Lapierre-(whoever plays better)
That works for me.

Though I still don't like our two bottom lines.

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08-12-2008, 01:47 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
we need SHOOTERS...

A line of tanguay-koivu-s.kost would not score many goals, no matter the talent these 3 have.


Tanguay-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Plek-Kovy
S.Kost-Chip-Lats
BGL-Lapierre-(whoever plays better)
The top two lines ae exactly what I have been saying since the beginning w/out sundin.
I go back and forth on Chips or Laps centring the third/fourth line. One instinct is that i think Chips has more offensive skill than Laps. The other is that Laps and Lats have shown some chemistry and a Chips Lats line may be too slow. I really don't know which to go with... I'd try both in practice/preseason.

Kostopolous would take the fourth line spot IMO. And BGL could sit for Begin in games where we don't need his toughness.

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08-12-2008, 03:13 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
The top two lines ae exactly what I have been saying since the beginning w/out sundin.
I go back and forth on Chips or Laps centring the third/fourth line. One instinct is that i think Chips has more offensive skill than Laps. The other is that Laps and Lats have shown some chemistry and a Chips Lats line may be too slow. I really don't know which to go with... I'd try both in practice/preseason.

Kostopolous would take the fourth line spot IMO. And BGL could sit for Begin in games where we don't need his toughness
.
Georges Laraque is the most paid goon in the hole league, i don't think he'l sit enough for Bégin to want to stick around

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08-12-2008, 03:29 PM
  #64
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Georges Laraque is the most paid goon in the hole league, i don't think he'l sit enough for Bégin to want to stick around
He plays 65 games.... Kosto plays 65 games.... Lapierre and Chips play 70 games each.... Thats 50 games for Begin to rotate into the lineup. Add in other injuries, and he'll get his 65 games too.

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08-12-2008, 03:31 PM
  #65
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My line is:

Tanguay-Plekanek-Kovalev
S.Kost-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Chipchura-Latendresse
Laraque-Lapierre-Kosto

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08-12-2008, 03:54 PM
  #66
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Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev is going to stay the same.

Tanguay is a LW, so it will be Tanguay - Koivu - Latendresse. Higgins is not physical/big/scorer enough to play with two players like Koivu and Tanguay. Latendresse fits great there.

Higgins - Chipchura - S. Kostitsyn is going to be our third line. As for those saying "S. KOSTITSYN ON THE 3RD LINE?!!?!!!!11", well, where else? I don't get it... Is he THAT good? I mean, some of you are talking like of he was our best player... it's really not the case just yet... and as long as his brother is going to be with us, it's not going to be the case.

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08-12-2008, 05:36 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev is going to stay the same.
I sure hope not.
A Kostitsyn needs to be on the right wing.

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08-12-2008, 06:19 PM
  #68
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I sure hope not.
A Kostitsyn needs to be on the right wing.
How good is SKost as a center? What about Tanguay?

Whoever plays center is gonna have to deal with Crosby, Malkin, et al. if we want a Cup.

Koivu and Plex are two. Who is the third? Can't have Chipper there can we?? He can match Malkin's size, but I think the speed matchup is far more important. So Lappy is my choice if they aren't gonna try Tangs, SKost or Higs in the middle on the third line.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 08-12-2008 at 06:47 PM.
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08-12-2008, 06:44 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostitsyn3 View Post
AKost-Plekanec-Kovalev-------------- (Understandable)
Higgins-Koivu-Tanguay---------------- (SKost on third line? Tanguay RW?)
Latendresse-Lapierre-SKost----------- (Skost on third line? Lats LW?)
Begin-Chipchura-Kostopoulos/Laraque (Kosto and BGL spliting time? Kosto back to RW)

I found their Projections Wierd. I thought that Tanguay would be 1st LW dropping AKost down to play with his brother and Koivu. I thought Higgins and Chipper would be on the third to be shutdown forwards and have Lats playing on their RW. I thought we would keep Kosto on LW and give him full time there and Laraque full time on RW with Lapierre in the middle.

Just everything about their projections were a little off. I know we disgust lines alot but, thoughts?
This is the line-up I made to. Tanguay can play on both wing and Higgins deserved the spot on the 2nd more than Sergei.

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08-12-2008, 06:51 PM
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This is the line-up I made to. Tanguay can play on both wing and Higgins deserved the spot on the 2nd more than Sergei.
It's not about who deserves what more. It's about what makes this team better.

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08-12-2008, 06:59 PM
  #71
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It's not about who deserves what more. It's about what makes this team better.
So true... I mean... We're not at PeeWee.

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08-12-2008, 07:17 PM
  #72
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Koivu with Kovalev ??? Won't work... Never worked. Why change a winning combination of Pleks and Kovy ? Kovalev will have to play on the point during PP this year, now that Streit is gone. That's about the only times that Kovy and Saku will be on the ice together.
I seem to remember those two playing together with Higgins to beat Boston in 2008 and I seem to remember those two playing together with Zednik to beat Boston in 2004. So to say it's never worked is ludicrous.

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08-12-2008, 09:24 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Am i the only one who sees Kosto on the third line? The guy is realy great defensivly, he got some wheels, he can put garbage goals and he works realy hard.

Akost - Plek - Kovalev

Higgins(Skost) - Koivu - Tanguay

Kosto - Skost(Higgins) -Lats (three guys than work hard in the corners, plus Higgins and Kosto are two good defensive players, and Lats said that he wants to have defensive missions)

Lapierre - Chipchura - Laraque


Those are my lines, and i see absolutly no problem with benching Bégin.
I agree hes a very cheap signing,gives all

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08-12-2008, 09:34 PM
  #74
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What doesn't seem work:

Koivu with Kovalev (as explained here, Koivu cycles in the corner and slides laterally at the net; Kovalev twirls east-west at the half-boards and curls back so his linemates continually have to adjust)

Higgins with Kovalev (different styles again. Higgins doesn't have the vision to see Kovalev filling gaps on his long rushes and semi-breaks. He doesn't make Kovy the #1 option. He prefers his mad rushes to the net for his own excellent release/accuracy. Or he's just a good passer and not a creative one. Dunno. Maybe they would just need time like Plex and Kovy did.)

Koivu with Higgins (without the proper linemate, they are stuck as average sized forwards cycling in the corner. It works against some ponderous Dmen when we have the home ice matchup and are able to rest for much of the first two periods. Koivu hitting Higgins on the fly is a component that does click)

What seems to work:

Plex and Kovy
Plex and AKost
SKost and AKost
AKost and Kovy
Higgins and Plex
Higgins and AKost
Higgins and Koivu to a certain extent.
Koivu and Lats to a certain extent.

Probably Koivu and the Kostys
Probably Tanguay and AKost
Perhaps Tanguay and Kovy
Perhaps SKost and Kovy

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Old
08-13-2008, 03:08 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
My line is:

Tanguay-Plekanek-Kovalev
S.Kost-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Chipchura-Latendresse
Laraque-Lapierre-Kosto
Makes lots of sense. But I would not be surprised to see Tanguay with Koivu.

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