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Kings Agree to a 4 Year, $14.4MM Contract with Stoll

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Old
09-05-2008, 12:50 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Not on this particular topic.

Someone reported the correct contract length, the financial terms and the fact that he was indeed signed several weeks ago. The only thing they didn't state was when it would be announced, which they have no control over.

Instead of simply thanking them and leaving it at that, you complained because it didn't meet some artificial timeline you dreamed up in your head.

We've likely lost a very reliable inside source for info on Stoll who is respected throughout these forums. If that was your goal - mission accomplished.
- T
So I am not allowed to be skeptical about people and their "sources"? On a site that will not let people post threads without links to back them up you should not be criticizing my skepticism.

I did not question the intent or validity of the poster. I simply stated that either he received bogus information (even insiders receive false claims all of the time) or that something happened during the negotiations. The fact that it took over three weeks to announce confirms that something held it up. Even Rich Hammond said the contract details were still not complete.

I still think what Hyped shared was great. Thanks for the information. But even if Rich Hammond posted "inside" stuff on this site and it did not come to pass within a week I would still question it. How many times have we heard of "inside information" that never came to pass? If you guys want to trust every rumor you hear that is your choice. It is my choice to be more selective in which stories I believe and which I choose to question.

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09-05-2008, 01:04 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Not on this particular topic.

Someone reported the correct contract length, the financial terms and the fact that he was indeed signed several weeks ago. The only thing they didn't state was when it would be announced, which they have no control over.

Instead of simply thanking them and leaving it at that, you complained because it didn't meet some artificial timeline you dreamed up in your head.

We've likely lost a very reliable inside source for info on Stoll who is respected throughout these forums. If that was your goal - mission accomplished.

- T
IMO, you're not being fair to Squidward.

Was the deal really signed weeks ago or were the major portions of the deal worked out weeks ago, but the details hadn't been completed? I don't think that the league or the players union would let a team sit on a contract for several weeks without announcing it.

I've heard too many stories about deals that were done except for the final details that blew up like the Hindenburg to ever accept any deal as "done" until it is announced. Every rumored deal should be questioned and challenged just like Squidward did, regardless of the source.

Alternatively, maybe you should offer up a list of posters whose rumors should never be questioned so that we all can defer to their inside knowledge...

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09-05-2008, 01:09 PM
  #278
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Thanks for the support PSP. I was beginning to wonder if we were no longer allowed to have differing opinions on this site.

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09-05-2008, 01:33 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
So I am not allowed to be skeptical about people and their "sources"? On a site that will not let people post threads without links to back them up you should not be criticizing my skepticism.
This particular source was vetted by 2 moderators as being credible, hence why the rumor was allowed to be discussed. There's no need for a URL link to something - the only requirement is that the source is credible.

You're certainly allowed to be skeptical. I'm also allowed to disagree with an opinion.

- T

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09-05-2008, 01:36 PM
  #280
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Honestly the sensitivity on this board is what baffles me most. Ignore list, name calling, blah, blah, blah.
Everybody has an opinion and just take it as that. Posters coming to the defense of a guy that posted the contract a few weeks ago was not that big a deal. He stated what he knew and most of us believed it. If he feels somebody is attacking him who cares. He should still come back and post.
At the end of the day I like reading anything hockey. But some of the elitist **** that goes on around here is overkill. Who cares if you have a contact. Don't be greedy with it and share the wealth.

- Thread Killer

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09-05-2008, 01:45 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by lakings41 View Post
Honestly the sensitivity on this board is what baffles me most. Ignore list, name calling, blah, blah, blah.
Everybody has an opinion and just take it as that. Posters coming to the defense of a guy that posted the contract a few weeks ago was not that big a deal. He stated what he knew and most of us believed it. If he feels somebody is attacking him who cares. He should still come back and post.
At the end of the day I like reading anything hockey. But some of the elitist **** that goes on around here is overkill. Who cares if you have a contact. Don't be greedy with it and share the wealth.

- Thread Killer
I agree. If Hyped does indeed have inside contacts, which is probably the case, then why would he care if I believe him or not?

Also Eklund has gotten a lot of trades and signings correct in his time on these boards and on his site as well. Does that mean nobody questions or is skeptical of his rumors? Also just because somebody has contacts does not mean they do not get wrong information from time to time. I clearly said in my post to Hyped that perhaps his source was speculating or the deal fell through. I did not attack him in any way.

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09-05-2008, 01:49 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
You're certainly allowed to be skeptical. I'm also allowed to disagree with an opinion.

- T
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But to make it appear as though I am on a mission to drive away credible sources just because I question their statements is probably not something a moderator should do.

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09-05-2008, 01:51 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But to make it appear as though I am on a mission to drive away credible sources just because I question their statements is probably not something a moderator should do.
you aren't?

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09-05-2008, 01:54 PM
  #284
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you aren't?
Yes, if I have my way we will be rid of all people with "inside" connections. Because I am bitter that being on the east coast I am not privy to such contacts. Or maybe I can get in close with the Charlotte Checkers organization and become the Rangers "official" ECHL connection. Then I will have ultimate power!!!!

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09-05-2008, 01:59 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But to make it appear as though I am on a mission to drive away credible sources just because I question their statements is probably not something a moderator should do.
Having credible sources provide valuable information to Kings fans is something, as a moderator, I need to encourage as much as possible. As a fan, I find it one of the main draws to come to a site like this because we do filter out rumors that have no credible source.

Everyone's free to voice their opinion. It's good to know that it was not your intention to drive away a credible source with differing opinions, but that's what happened, and that's unfortunate.

- T

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09-05-2008, 02:06 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Having credible sources provide valuable information to Kings fans is something, as a moderator, I need to encourage as much as possible. As a fan, I find it one of the main draws to come to a site like this because we do filter out rumors that have no credible source.

Everyone's free to voice their opinion. No one intends to drive away a credible source with differing opinions, but that's what happened, and that's unfortunate.

- T
Well if me being skeptical of his source was enough to drive Hyped away (there was no unkind statement of any kind made towards him) them I am shocked. If I had an inside source I would hope and expect people to be skeptical of it. I definitely would not expect everyone to believe everything I said just because I had made correct statements in the past. When I received the league cap figures from Dean Lombardi a few seasons ago many people didn't believe me either, but I did not get my feelings hurt over it.

Like I said before Eklund has inside connections as well, probably more than anyone else on these boards, yet he is not free from skepticism. And for a good reason....he is still not correct about most of the things he reports.

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09-05-2008, 02:23 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
Yes, if I have my way we will be rid of all people with "inside" connections. Because I am bitter that being on the east coast I am not privy to such contacts. Or maybe I can get in close with the Charlotte Checkers organization and become the Rangers "official" ECHL connection. Then I will have ultimate power!!!!
holy smoke, i was actually going to cite your distance as THE reason behind your - if I can't have it, then no one else can approach.

so i was right then?

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09-05-2008, 02:27 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
This particular source was vetted by 2 moderators as being credible, hence why the rumor was allowed to be discussed. There's no need for a URL link to something - the only requirement is that the source is credible.

You're certainly allowed to be skeptical. I'm also allowed to disagree with an opinion.

- T

Can you offer us a little info on your vetting process? What is considered a credible source?

...and why would that poster without credentials be any more credible than Rich Hammond, who posted this in his blog August 25:

"The word from the Kings today is essentially the same that I reported three weeks ago, that they feel they're closer on Stoll ..."

There is a difference between "done, but not announced" and "working out the final details"

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09-05-2008, 02:28 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
So I am not allowed to be skeptical about people and their "sources"? On a site that will not let people post threads without links to back them up you should not be criticizing my skepticism.

I did not question the intent or validity of the poster. I simply stated that either he received bogus information (even insiders receive false claims all of the time) or that something happened during the negotiations. The fact that it took over three weeks to announce confirms that something held it up. Even Rich Hammond said the contract details were still not complete.

I still think what Hyped shared was great. Thanks for the information. But even if Rich Hammond posted "inside" stuff on this site and it did not come to pass within a week I would still question it. How many times have we heard of "inside information" that never came to pass? If you guys want to trust every rumor you hear that is your choice. It is my choice to be more selective in which stories I believe and which I choose to question.
So if he decides to post insider information next time, are you going to cut him more slack?

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09-05-2008, 02:33 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Can you offer us a little info on your vetting process? What is considered a credible source?

...and why would that poster without credentials be any more credible than Rich Hammond, who posted this in his blog August 25:

"The word from the Kings today is essentially the same that I reported three weeks ago, that they feel they're closer on Stoll ..."

There is a difference between "done, but not announced" and "working out the final details"
Well, just because Hammond has press credentials, doesn't mean that they are going to give him insider information. When was the last time he broke a story before anyone else had it?

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09-05-2008, 02:35 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by HBKF View Post
So if he decides to post insider information next time, are you going to cut him more slack?
Maybe....it depends on the circumstances. We had another poster on here who would post "inside" information and about 50% of it came to pass (his information was probably legit but something fell through). So should I believe 100% of what these people post if only 50% of it comes to pass?

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09-05-2008, 02:36 PM
  #292
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Well, just because Hammond has press credentials, doesn't mean that they are going to give him insider information. When was the last time he broke a story before anyone else had it?
I can think of about 3 or 4 in the past year.

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09-05-2008, 02:57 PM
  #293
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Folks, here's the deal:
I will post any information that I know of on any of your Kings players if I see it hasn't popped up in any media source for a lengthy period of time. Otherwise, I will wait for the media outlets to post all information.

Squidward, I'm not "chased away", nor do I care if you are skeptical and I never said you attacked me (others in the past have, which is what has caused me to be more selective in my posting). This is all stuff I had posted earlier. So no hard feelings here. I didn't mean to come on here and cause heartache between posters.

Is that fair to everyone?

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09-05-2008, 03:13 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by guzmania View Post
Even considering last season, Lubomir is the clearly superior player. How can this be proved? The trade was not one for one was it? Proof positive that even with the debacle that was Marc Crawford's choices for Lubo and a long-term escalating value contract the former all-star was worth Stoll and a young defensman named Greene. Period, end of paragraph, new chapter.

great post.


Losing Lubo was not only a HORRIBLE message to send to the boys, and a down right dirty move by a GM that likes to preach precisely against that sort of thing (but then again what that he says is he not hypocritical about?), but also creates a HUGE hole.

what it seems that many fail to realize (even while touting stoll's intangibles), is that Lubo is the ONLY player on the team that can move the puck past two lines without passing (not even Kopi, although he could very well develope to do this, and he has done it a FEW times), and CONSISTENTLY. This is kind of a HUGE deal in the game of hockey. He was of course also one of the few that could gain the o zone CLEANLY and consistently.

His contract was both fair and deserved. If it were not for the fact that the team was never built nor coached to PROTECT him from being smashed whenever the other team so desired, he was en route to becoming the closest thing in the league to scott Neidermeyer. Nothing short of the worse possible coaching that could be accomplished, could put Lubo into the position that resulted in his last season.


With that being said, when the Oil treat Lubo as the star that he is,,, pairing, protection, situations, etc... he is going to respond accordingly.


Stoll and Green??? What a joke! Post concussion Stoll is Brian Smolinski. Let's hope I'm wrong here...

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09-05-2008, 03:18 PM
  #295
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Big Mistake!

How can you sign a guy for 4 years when he had a poor year the following??

Its either DL has gone mad or he just wants to get above the cap..

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09-05-2008, 03:29 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
I can think of about 3 or 4 in the past year.
I honestly can't remember anything he broke that wasn't also available via the Kings' website. What were the 3 or 4 you remember?

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09-05-2008, 03:57 PM
  #297
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And those 39 points were amassed in 59 games prior to his concussion. And after that concussion he was able to appear in a full season, even though the numbers weren't there, he contributed to the Oilers' PK unit and as a checking line center winning faceoffs.

Apparently Oilers fans who watched him play are convinced he will bounce back and regain his form. But Kings fans who didn't watch him play would disagree.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=541819&page=2

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yet Lubo is SURE to, right? isn't that how it works around here?
depending what side of the fence you are veiwing from. from my side it seems that our strugling players are done, yet somebody elses is bound to bounce back.

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Somebody needs a bigger helmet.
hehe

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Originally Posted by kingswillwinthecup View Post
Stoll isn't signed yet. We don't know how expensive he could get.

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
It is safe to assume it won't be a contract that would handcuff the team as Visnovsky's contract would had they retained him.
Handcuff?? we can't even hit the floor

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
When Kopitar is due to receive over $6M, Frolov at over $5M, Johnson is due for over $4M and Bernier is due for a new deal within the next couple of seasons, who do you think they would look to move? And all contracts that need to be extended within a year or two.

Oh no, it would be that same defenseman. The harsh reality is if the Kings plan on retaining their young core, someone like Visnovsky has to go. But apparently most fans fail to accept that and are too damned stubborn to move on.
2.2 million dollar difference is what we are talking about. For Lubo?? Over Stoll?? No brainer. We lose BIG. Should we add in our bottom pairing accusition?


some peole want to move on in ignorance bliss of where the hell they are moving on to...

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Originally Posted by kingswillwinthecup View Post
And apparently Dean Lombardi didn't accept that, either, considering he signed Lubo to that extension.
HAHAHA LOLOLOL. Wow, what a jerk that Dumbardi is eh?

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
At the time the signing took place it was necessary to retain him. Otherwise he would have bolted as a free agent. And for the past two years he's been sulking and unhappy. Time to move on. Accept it.
You've got a bad habit of telling others what to do there buddy. Lot of nerve.



Quote:
The salary cap isn't going to go up to $80 million over the next two-three years, and by that time you have Kopitar at say $6, Frolov at $5, Johnson at $4, O'Sullivan and Stoll at over $3, Doughty at around $3 with his bonuses, Bernier at $3, Brown over $3 as well, and mind you these are all moderate numbers, that is going to exceed $30 mill which would make up for more than half the cap being tied to 8 players.

Then you have the likes of Hickey, Boyle, Purcell who could also prove to be worthy core players who will earn in excess of $2M if they reach their potential, which pushes the team around or over $40M. Again, these are generous estimates I am distributing. So the team is left with less than $20M in cap space and I've listed 11 players thus far who should be retained, leaving another 12 roster spots to fill. Throw in Moulson, Teubert, Simmonds, etc. into the mix, you start to get an idea as to why they need to have some cap flexibility down the road.

blah blah blah... all part of the job, when you're a GM. So basically you think it's cool for a GM to give a bull**** contract that he never plans on honoring to a "built from within", lifetime player, and then shipping him off? Making promises that he is part of the "core" and giving him a ntc, LYING, and shipping him off, when out of the other side of his mouth he's preaching about treating players fairly??

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09-05-2008, 04:00 PM
  #298
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The fact that the poster being discussed shared the EXACT details of the eventual contract weeks ago ends any and all arguments on this thread.

I hate this team's management. I really do. But I'll be damned if I act stubborn enough to not feel incredibly relieved when one of our RFAs in question is signed, and it happened to be correctly leaked weeks ago.

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09-05-2008, 04:05 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by deeker View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=541819&page=2

You've got a bad habit of telling others what to do there buddy. Lot of nerve.
[mod edit]

It's called accepting reality and looking ahead rather than looking back. As if Lubo brought so much success to this team that is going to be sorely missed.

Quote:
blah blah blah... all part of the job, when you're a GM. So basically you think it's cool for a GM to give a bull**** contract that he never plans on honoring to a "built from within", lifetime player, and then shipping him off? Making promises that he is part of the "core" and giving him a ntc, LYING, and shipping him off, when out of the other side of his mouth he's preaching about treating players fairly??
I don't care how the players feel after seeing the loyalty some of them have demonstrated (Blake for example). This is a business and Lombardi made a business decision that makes sense to me and apparently doesn't make sense to people who are too dumb to realize his contract would hinder the teams' ability to re-sign a number of rising stars.


Last edited by TonySCV: 09-05-2008 at 04:09 PM. Reason: personal commentary removed
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09-05-2008, 04:09 PM
  #300
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Please remain on topic - debate the opinions, not the posters.

Thanks...

- T

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