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Old
08-19-2008, 05:20 PM
  #1
Sined
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Planning to build a new computer? Don't know where to start? Read Here first!

Things to remember: These builds do not include any OS, Keyboard, Mice, Speakers or Monitors. That is up to the builder to choose.

==================================================

Budget PC (Intel)
Price Range: $600-$700

We also have Cider's AMD enthusiast on page 29 to insert. I will try to gather up Kestrel's high-end PC and the i-750 PCs info later.

Hardware
Name
Price
Processor: Intel Core i3 530 $140
Motherboard: ASUS P7H55-M Pro mATX $110
RAM: OCZ Gold 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1600 $110
Video Card: Powercolor Radeon HD 5670 $90
Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 500GB SATA2 7200RPM $54
Optical Drive: Samsung 22X Dual Layer DVD Writer $30
Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W $55
Case: Antec Three Hundred $54

Total: $633

I went with dav's advice on the OCZ PSU in the end, it was still there after a week and there are more budget OCZs now. If it isn't there later, someone can surely find a deal on a $50-50 PSU somewhere, this PC is not a power hog.

I would suggest an ATI HD5750 video card at minimum for gaming. But I went with the ATI HD5670 for now, it will be adequate. Actually this platform has integrated video, basically one could do without a card if they don't game at all, or buy one later and cut another $90 on the list price of this PC. If you are short of funds, you could also get an HD5750 later instead when you have the money.

Mid-Range Build
Price Range: $1700-$2000
General Usage: Internet Browsing, E-Mail, Videos, Word Processing and Mainstream/High-End Gaming

Hardware
Name
Price
Processor: Intel Core i7 860 Quad Core $355
Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E Pro LGA1156 P55 USB 3.0 Sata 6Gb $212
RAM: Memory OCZ Gold 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR3-1600 PC3-12800 CL 8-8-8-24 $129
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 5850 $345
Hard Drive: 2X Western Digital WD1001FALS Caviar Black 1TB SATA2 $200
Optical Drive: Samsung or LG $30-35
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: Coolermaster Hyper 212 $29.36
Power Supply: Coolermaster Silent Pro 700W $137
Case: Coolermaster ATCS840 ATX Tower $215

Total: $1887

Comments: Mid Range enthusiast, multimedia and casual gamer (no SLI or CF) (under $2000)

Kestrel's High End PC
Price Range: $3000+

Hardware
Name
Price
Processor: Intel Core i7 930 Quad Core $335
Motherboard: ASUS P6X58D Premium X58 ATX LGA1366 $335
RAM: Corsair XMS3 12GB 6X2GB DDR3-1600 CL 9 $399
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 5970 $699
Hard Drive 1: OCZ Vertex 60GB SSD $249
Hard Drive 2: Western Digital WD15EARS Caviar Green 1.5TB $140
Optical Drive: LG Bluray Writer 10X $210
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 $80
Power Supply: Corsair Professional HX850W $230
Case: Coolermaster Cosmos ATX $209
Wireless Card: D-LINK DWA-552 Xtreme N Desktop Adapter $70
TV Tuner: Diamond TV Wonder 650 $110

Total: $3,066:

I kept the Wireless and TV Tuner, this is after all a high end, so I figured it could justify a few extras. I dunno if Kestrel was going to do a 'WTF does money mean' PC too, this is pretty close IMHO

I guess one could change the mobo to that ASUS Rampage posted earlier, the new i-980X processor, add an extra HD5970 in SLI, add a more expensive SSD, get that expensive Thermaltake case or a Lian Li, add water cooling, and an expensive sound card....heh-heh

I added up Buffaloed's high-end PC and it came to $3,826. I was surprised it was that high though, he wasn't spending much on the case, maybe that threw me off. One could easily get that near $5000 with a second video card, a higher end case, water cooling etc...


MORE MAJOR UPDATES COMING SOON!!!


I'll try to keep this thread up to date with the latest hardware.

Also don't limit yourself to Newegg, if you can find the same part at a lower price power to you!

*Prices might not be 100% accurate.

**When choosing your parts remember you are the boss. do no hesitate to tailor one of these blueprints to your specific needs. For example if you like the High-End build but prefer lots of storage (750GB+) over High performance drives(10k RPM drives) don't hesitate to look for an alternative.


Last edited by Sined: 03-21-2010 at 09:55 PM.
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Old
08-19-2008, 06:52 PM
  #2
Pierre Dagenais
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Sick thread. NCIX is currently the best canadian site for computers but Newegg is coming soon

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Old
08-19-2008, 07:10 PM
  #3
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I would recommend a cheap AMD A64 X2 or even a Celeron over the Atom, unless there is zero need to playback video, and even then, the cheapest A64 X2 is less than $50 at newegg.

The Geforce 8200 series (not sure what the naming scheme is for Intel boards) don't break a sweat with Blu Ray/HD playback.

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08-19-2008, 09:26 PM
  #4
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I have a couple of questions.

I don't get some of the choices. On the budget build you have a Wolfdale processor at 333mhz X4 rated for a 1333 mhz FSB but you pair it with a 1066 FSB rated board with a Intel 945 chipset. There are cheap P35 boards out there rated at 1333 FSB, wouldn't it be a better match? The DDR2-667 memory is fine for a 333mhz processor and 1333FSB mobo and it would have a nice fsb:dram divider setting. But DDR-2 800 is cheap, I'd probably go for that anyway.

The mainstream build is fine. You could even get away with a P35 mobo if you wanted to.

I don't get the memory choices for the mid-range or high-end build.

IMO at DDR3 for a Wolfdale or Yorkfield processor deserves at least DDR3-1333 (you could get away with DDR-2 800 but if you want DDR-3 I'd get the DDR3 1333). Minimum. The math in figuring optimum DDR2 and DDR3 isn't the same. With DDR3, IMO you should get the same designation as the processor bus speeds 333 X 4 = 1333FSB and get DDR-3 1333 memory. At DDR-2 you got away with half the rated memory designation, the cycles were different but that isn't the case with DDR-3. And if you want to OC your processor, you should get DDR-3 with a higher designation. Of course you don't have to (buy at that designation). You can always buy lower memory designations and overclock it higher too. But at that point you are loosening the timings, increasing the voltage for stability and or maybe playing with the fsb:dram divider settings. Headache, but it's up to you...

I might be wrong, I'm not a pro, but that has been my understanding...


Last edited by Puck: 08-19-2008 at 09:32 PM.
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Old
08-19-2008, 09:48 PM
  #5
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Oh yeah, I like the Corsair PSU choices. I'd also consider OCZ Vendetta2, Noctua NHu-12P and Tuniq coolers.

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08-19-2008, 10:00 PM
  #6
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I prefer the the Nvidia cards myself.

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Old
08-20-2008, 11:36 AM
  #7
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I just checked the E7200 Wolfdale and it's running at 1066 FSB so it would be fine with a 945 chipset. It's the Wolfdale title that threw me off on that one, the Wolfdale's have been advertised at 1333 mhz but I didn't realize the E7200 series was set at the lower settings even though it has that Wolfdale title. Sorry Sined.

Let me know what your thoughts are on the memory question though.

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Old
08-20-2008, 01:13 PM
  #8
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Yeah I'll look into making some adjustments with RAM and the Coolers. A lot of the choices were restricted by budget. On the High-End Build I wanted to put in faster RAM but the price sky-rocket to double even triple the price for one speed stepping higher.

As for coolers I haven't looked around too much and I'll adjust those accordingly.

[Edit:] I made the appropriate changes to the coolers. As Well as the high-end RAM.


Last edited by Sined: 08-20-2008 at 01:38 PM.
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Old
08-20-2008, 01:58 PM
  #9
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The industry's advertised memory specifications have given me a headache. I don't know if I should believe half of what the industry claims.

DDR3 is new, I only caught the differences on DDR2 and DDR3 on an AnandTech article that was published awhile ago. I thought that was pretty tricky, that's why I remembered it.

I've noticed the same memory selling at different designations. The same module can sell at DDR2-800 with a CAS latency of 4 or DDR2-1000 (higher is better) with a CAS latency of 5 (higher is worse). They just clock the same modules differently at the factory. If you know what you are doing you can go into the Bios and change it yourself.

What I have learned to look out for is for modules at the same specs but with different voltage settings. With all other specs equal, higher voltages on different memory modules is a sure sign of a difference in quality, they're just OCing chips some modules at higher settings. You have to watch out for everything with these rascals. And I've learned you often get what you pay for. You often aren't really getting a bargain if you get a lower priced memory module with the same designations.

I figure the real performance gains in DDR3 will come with the next-gen mobos when they support 3 channels instead of 2. Other than that, the higher bandwidths are probably nice but from what I've been able to make out, it's mostly marginally beneficial for gamers when processing long streams of data rather than processing small chunks of data in most other operations, where latency means a lot more. I'm not 100% sure on that, I've asked the question many times and never really got a definite answer.


Last edited by Puck: 08-20-2008 at 03:56 PM.
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08-20-2008, 02:09 PM
  #10
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I recommend you make a new bundle for an individual that wants to use their PC as a media centre (I want to take an HDMI cable and hook it up to a TV). That's what I'm in the market for right now.

I think it's becoming one of the bigger uses for PCs these days.

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08-20-2008, 02:12 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Gerber View Post
I recommend you make a new bundle for an individual that wants to use their PC as a media centre (I want to take an HDMI cable and hook it up to a TV). That's what I'm in the market for right now.

I think it's becoming one of the bigger uses for PCs these days.
Me too!

I'm still uncertain about what to get...

(And does anyone have recommendations for a good soundcard for playing lossless audio into a decent stereo setup?)

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08-20-2008, 02:20 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Me too!

I'm still uncertain about what to get...

(And does anyone have recommendations for a good soundcard for playing lossless audio into a decent stereo setup?)
I've been looking at this:
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...39&catid=20217

As far as I can tell, it's the best deal you can get for those features.

Thoughts, experts?

I'm a little leary because of the 90 day warranty though...

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08-20-2008, 02:31 PM
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If you are in Canada and looking to get a media PC to record HDTV, it can't be done. This was my understanding when I did a lot of research 6 months ago. You need a cableCARD and they are only available in the US.

You can, of course, play Blueray and other HD content.

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08-20-2008, 02:59 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHomelessAteMyCat View Post
If you are in Canada and looking to get a media PC to record HDTV, it can't be done. This was my understanding when I did a lot of research 6 months ago. You need a cableCARD and they are only available in the US.

You can, of course, play Blueray and other HD content.
Someone who is savvy in this stuff told me he can record ExpressVu on his PC the other day... maybe it's possible now?

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Old
08-20-2008, 03:07 PM
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The E8400 is a much smarter buy than the E8500 or E8600. The performance difference is negligible, and anybody in the "mainstream/high end" market should be able to fairly easily overclock their E8400. It can hit 4.0ghz on air, so it should have no problem reaching 3.16 to 3.66ghz with the stock fan.

At this point in time, I have to give DDR2 the nod over DDR3 because of the price disparity. If you're using a current Intel processor, you'll probably never see a huge performance improvement between the two.

Also, the MSI build of the Radeon 4850 is very cheap. I'd have to recommend using two of those.

Also, gamers going crossfire will want a mobo with an Intel P45 chipset. It supports CrossfireX, which will give you better bandwidth over the PCI-E bus for both cards.


Last edited by noobman: 08-20-2008 at 03:12 PM.
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08-20-2008, 03:24 PM
  #16
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I'm quite happy with my Q6600 and EVGA Nforce 780i

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Old
08-20-2008, 03:33 PM
  #17
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might want to list a few websites in the first post for those just starting a new build.

for example, tigerdirect.ca, directcanada,com, (maybe some advice to generally not buy things from ebay? )

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08-20-2008, 03:34 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Gerber View Post
Someone who is savvy in this stuff told me he can record ExpressVu on his PC the other day... maybe it's possible now?
Maybe it's changed and if so hopefully someone can advise. The issue was always getting HD into the PC from the cable/satellite box. You can get the hardware but it doesn't work. You can, of course, record regular non-HD content.

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08-20-2008, 03:37 PM
  #19
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You have to be sure what you are looking for. A media center PC usually means bringing TV and living room entertainment to your PC set-up and monitor, and a home theatre PC usually signifies hooking up a PC to a LCD TV and stereo in your living room. Doesn't mean it's mutually exclusive, you can still port your media center PC rig to your living room entertainment center. Just more defined explanations for the wording.

With an HTPC, people are looking for a quiet rig with lots of storage for their media. I think the HP computer above is more of the media center PC variety. With an HTPC you have to send the PC video signal to the large flat panel TV and have to be mindful of the right connections. You are also going to connect your rig to your stereo or home theatre sound system. Here too you get what you pay for when buying a ready-built system.

If you are building your own, I'd recommend an ASUS Xonar soundcard, the DX2 is out and ASUS is also coming out with a new HDAV 1.3 soundcard.

Just for fun, I've experimented hooking up my PC both ways, as a media center PC (to my PC set-up) and to my home theatre system. I have encountered lots of small problems along the way, that were fun to figure out. Some of these problems might not come up in newer tech in new rigs. Or new problems might crop up.

The new Hauppauge DVR seems to be a good 'analog hole' component to capture HD from a cable box and satellite box. The software that comes with it doesn't seem to work currently with 64-bit Vista but that will be rectified. And some people complain about the DVR heating, but Hauppauge has promised a firmware update to rectify that.
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2325697,00.asp

A good alternative media PC software is MediaPortal
http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

I'm not going to bother setting up suggestions for media-centric rigs, you can have as many choices as Sined provided for his PC suggestions in this thread and that's a lot of work. There are tons of choices and solutions out there, depending on what people's needs and wants are.


Last edited by Puck: 08-20-2008 at 03:58 PM.
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Old
08-20-2008, 05:15 PM
  #20
Sined
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Gerber View Post
I recommend you make a new bundle for an individual that wants to use their PC as a media centre (I want to take an HDMI cable and hook it up to a TV). That's what I'm in the market for right now.

I think it's becoming one of the bigger uses for PCs these days.
Sure I'll do a little research and put one together for you. Silence will be a huge requirement for that kind of build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobman View Post
The E8400 is a much smarter buy than the E8500 or E8600. The performance difference is negligible, and anybody in the "mainstream/high end" market should be able to fairly easily overclock their E8400. It can hit 4.0ghz on air, so it should have no problem reaching 3.16 to 3.66ghz with the stock fan.
Mainstream is aimed at people who might now look to OC their CPUs so higher stock speeds will provide the higher performance.

For Mid-Range the E8600 E0 Stepping CPUs are far superior to the E8400 as it has the 10x multiplier and thus when it reaches the FSB wall will yeild higher clock rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobman View Post
At this point in time, I have to give DDR2 the nod over DDR3 because of the price disparity. If you're using a current Intel processor, you'll probably never see a huge performance improvement between the two.
The industry is moving toward DDR3. The systems using DDR3 will have the benefit of longevity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobman View Post
Also, gamers going crossfire will want a mobo with an Intel P45 chipset. It supports CrossfireX, which will give you better bandwidth over the PCI-E bus for both cards.
Disagreed, the setups I posted that use Crossfire use the X48 Chipset which has two 16 PCI-Express slots while the P45 Chipset only has two PCI-Express 8x. The difference between the two chipsets has been well documented and is really the only reason why somone would go with a X48, to take full advantage of Crossfire.


Last edited by Sined: 09-07-2008 at 02:54 AM.
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Old
08-20-2008, 06:01 PM
  #21
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not to mention the e8500 is only like $20 more then the e8400

also, as others have mentioned, 2x2 ram for mainstream and above builds is a lot better then 2x1 considering some might be getting 64 bit vista

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Old
08-21-2008, 12:29 AM
  #22
Sined
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Gerber View Post
I recommend you make a new bundle for an individual that wants to use their PC as a media centre (I want to take an HDMI cable and hook it up to a TV). That's what I'm in the market for right now.

I think it's becoming one of the bigger uses for PCs these days.
HTPC Build up! The Screen and sound system would be up to you though. If the price of the system seems a bit high you can remove the keyboard and mouse but I really recommend you get them because controlling Windows with a remote isn't too much fun. Also if you notice the drive is Blu-Ray player and a HD-DVD player so if you bought some HD-DVDs no problem this system can handle it. Also worth mentioning Blu-Ray players on their own can cost up to $600.


Last edited by Sined: 08-21-2008 at 12:37 AM.
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08-21-2008, 09:17 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sined View Post
HTPC Build up! The Screen and sound system would be up to you though. If the price of the system seems a bit high you can remove the keyboard and mouse but I really recommend you get them because controlling Windows with a remote isn't too much fun. Also if you notice the drive is Blu-Ray player and a HD-DVD player so if you bought some HD-DVDs no problem this system can handle it. Also worth mentioning Blu-Ray players on their own can cost up to $600.
Wow, you're awesome! Thanks, I'll take a look at this!

I'm actually pretty happy with that price point.

By choose my own sound system, do you mean choose my own soundcard?

Also, I have a cordless mouse and keyboard, so I can knock the price down there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHomelessAteMyCat View Post
Maybe it's changed and if so hopefully someone can advise. The issue was always getting HD into the PC from the cable/satellite box. You can get the hardware but it doesn't work. You can, of course, record regular non-HD content.
Come to think of it, he never actually said anything about HD vs. non-HD... he might have just meant ExpressVu, not HD.

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08-21-2008, 09:19 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sined View Post
HTPC Build up! The Screen and sound system would be up to you though. If the price of the system seems a bit high you can remove the keyboard and mouse but I really recommend you get them because controlling Windows with a remote isn't too much fun. Also if you notice the drive is Blu-Ray player and a HD-DVD player so if you bought some HD-DVDs no problem this system can handle it. Also worth mentioning Blu-Ray players on their own can cost up to $600.
Here's a question on the HTPC...

If I'm mostly concerned with movies/tv, and not gaming....how high is too high when it comes to video cards?..

Thanks Sined, great thread!

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08-21-2008, 09:25 AM
  #25
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I disagree with the 667mhz ram bit in the first PC, but I'm assuming that's only what the mobo can handle, right?

Either way, I think these days 800mhz is the minimum u shud get.

Also for the high end one, I'd never recommend the quad 2.66,

Either the quad 2.4 (price difference is like 150$+ for very little improvement) or the dual 3.0, but that's just me.

(Dual 3.0 can't handle as large a load as the quad 2.4, but can run stuff faster, so it's up to the consumer which decision they make, being able to run more **** at once or being able to run less **** at once but faster)

The 2.66 quad just seems like a waste to me, u can OC the 2.4ghz quad to 3.0ghz safely with a 50$ component so why pay 150$ more for a 2.66? Is the FSB different or something (I'm not checking the specs right now don't have the time to, might edit later)


EDIT: Also wanted to know if you could make the same thread + sticky (identical layout) but for tigerdirect.ca and make it the canadian version

If you really don't want to I guess I could do it.

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