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Old
08-26-2008, 01:25 PM
  #51
BobbyClarkeFan16
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You know, I never understood why Megadeth was never as big as Metallica was. Every album that Dave Mustaine has made either matches up with or is better than any album Metallica has made.

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08-26-2008, 01:53 PM
  #52
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You know, I never understood why Megadeth was never as big as Metallica was. Every album that Dave Mustaine has made either matches up with or is better than any album Metallica has made.
I couldnt agree more!!

I think early on (i.e. first couple albums) Metallica was better. However, after they both hit their creative peaks, Masters of Puppets and Rust in Peace (I think I rate MIP slightly higher than RIP) I think Metallica started going downhill and Megadeth still made some great music with the next 3 albums Countdown, Youthnasia and Cryptic Writings. They slipped for a couple and then came back with two very good ones.

Part of it could be Mustaine's vocals.....While I love them, I can see why they might turn off the mainstream crowd that Metallica picked up.

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08-26-2008, 02:32 PM
  #53
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I couldnt agree more!!

I think early on (i.e. first couple albums) Metallica was better. However, after they both hit their creative peaks, Masters of Puppets and Rust in Peace (I think I rate MIP slightly higher than RIP) I think Metallica started going downhill and Megadeth still made some great music with the next 3 albums Countdown, Youthnasia and Cryptic Writings. They slipped for a couple and then came back with two very good ones.

Part of it could be Mustaine's vocals.....While I love them, I can see why they might turn off the mainstream crowd that Metallica picked up.
Gotta love that thrash metal snarl he has..


grrrryou take a mortal man

aaandd put him in control

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08-26-2008, 02:33 PM
  #54
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Well, I am a huge Mustaine fan so we probably wont agree, but I am curious as to what you think is crap? Risk is crap when compared to the rest of their catalogue, but if what Mustaine says is true (who knows) in that he didnt want that to be a Megadeth record but was forced to make it one, I understand why it is crap. The World Needs a Hero, while not great, I think had a few good songs on it to make it above crap.

The difference between Mustaine and Metallica is that Mustaine may have become crappy, but has recovered from it and made two strong albums, at least in my opinion. Metallica has become crap and has never recovered...
We'll agree much more than you think. Metallicas worse is waayy worse then Megadeths...

Remember, Mustaine was my avatar during the playoffs

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08-26-2008, 03:49 PM
  #55
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Great post. I agree with everything besides Trujillo being better than Cliff. Cliff also died young, where as Rob has more years to get better. We both know given that time, Cliff would have been superior.

Having the same background as you (Guitarist, study jazz and classical at school, have played multiple venues before leaving and recorded and sold CDs of my own music), your points really hit home.

Next question. Who or what do you play with? And what style? I really, really miss playing live shows.

And by the way. Once my band and i played the Troc in Philadelphia and the guy tried to stiff us out on some CD/Shirt sales...

Needless to say... WWIII
Thanks! I play in a trio with my girlfriend (vocalist) and her brother/ my best friend (drummer). All covers - the lamest of the 80s. But, I love playing and I love who I play with. So, its all good. We used to be a 6 piece modern rock band, and then we got sick of dealing with other musician's attitudes and poor work habits. We've been together for 11 years. Its great playing with people who you know so well and can feed off of.

I record the bass parts and then we sample them (along with any percussion or backing vox that we record). So, I've been playing with a click track for the past 4 years, which can be a great life saver when you have had a few too many. We're finishing up our summer schedule which has been hectic, but fun. My liver needs a break.

I just picked up a PRS Custom 24 Ten Top. It is the sweetest thing I've ever played. I also have a PRS Standard 22 which I've used since '95. I go through my Boss effects into single 12" Fender Deluxe (tubes).

What do you use?

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08-26-2008, 05:13 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Orange and Black View Post
Thanks! I play in a trio with my girlfriend (vocalist) and her brother/ my best friend (drummer). All covers - the lamest of the 80s. But, I love playing and I love who I play with. So, its all good. We used to be a 6 piece modern rock band, and then we got sick of dealing with other musician's attitudes and poor work habits. We've been together for 11 years. Its great playing with people who you know so well and can feed off of.

I record the bass parts and then we sample them (along with any percussion or backing vox that we record). So, I've been playing with a click track for the past 4 years, which can be a great life saver when you have had a few too many. We're finishing up our summer schedule which has been hectic, but fun. My liver needs a break.

I just picked up a PRS Custom 24 Ten Top. It is the sweetest thing I've ever played. I also have a PRS Standard 22 which I've used since '95. I go through my Boss effects into single 12" Fender Deluxe (tubes).

What do you use?
Well for metal, i use a Jackson RR5 (white). I go through a Marshall JCM800 (meeegaa vintage 50 watt). through two 1960B Cabs. I also have the epiphone zakk wylde sig guitar, another mid level jackson, an ovation 12 string celebrity acoustic (ovations are great), an epiphone crap acoustic.

My classical guitar is by a company named Raimundo. Its pretty nice, although its more of a Flamenco guitar, due to its cutaway at the 12th fret.

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08-26-2008, 05:22 PM
  #57
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Nice. I forgot about my acoustics! I have 12-string Ovation (I think its a requirement!) and a Taylor 512ce.

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08-26-2008, 05:37 PM
  #58
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Nice. I forgot about my acoustics! I have 12-string Ovation (I think its a requirement!) and a Taylor 512ce.
I freakin love Ovations. They just sound so good. One day im gonna buy one of their deep body 6 string ones

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08-27-2008, 05:40 AM
  #59
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Arrogant ignorance of youth.

Once that's lost you can argue technical prowess, but it's not what grabs you by the boo boo. That's not what separates them from the rest and gets attention. That's why the only popular bands of old men in rock are bands that already made it. There are never brand new old man rock bands that reach such heights. They play in bars and do covers to keep people interested.

Cliff is not missed for his bass playing, it was his arrogant ignorance. It was superior to the rest of the guys and drove them to the top of the underground, so to speak.

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08-27-2008, 09:13 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by sickamore View Post
Arrogant ignorance of youth.

Once that's lost you can argue technical prowess, but it's not what grabs you by the boo boo. That's not what separates them from the rest and gets attention. That's why the only popular bands of old men in rock are bands that already made it. There are never brand new old man rock bands that reach such heights. They play in bars and do covers to keep people interested.

Cliff is not missed for his bass playing, it was his arrogant ignorance. It was superior to the rest of the guys and drove them to the top of the underground, so to speak.
Right. If you're trying to say attitude is important, then I agree. But, so is talent, groove, feel, passion for what you do, expanding and creating, and learning your craft.

But, on the other, if you're trying to say being a snot-nosed arrogant little ****** is the only requirement for creating new and exciting music, well then...

It was the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that made me watch hacks with lipstick steal Aerosmith and Zeppelin riffs and turn the music I love into commercialized dribble. Poison, Warrant, Slaughter, and all of their hair-plugged buddies killed heavy metal.

It was the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that made me sit through the Grunge era, which was rehashed and dumbed down music. The little twits that ran out and bought their flannels should've saved their money and taken some lessons. The message: I'm a depressed drug addict who doesn't want to be a rock star -waaaahhhh, but you better give me my 5 star reviews and put me on the cover of Rolling Stone. It also spawned a new, less talented, but equally as annoying Bono - Eddie Vedder. Makes me vomit.

It was "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that spawned modern "rock". The mindset of creating one radio-friendly hit and you're good to go killed the concept of making an album. It was pure style and image over substance. Record companies started signing these little teenage bands, "developing" them, and then putting them out for mass consumption. That's so edgy and rock n' roll. Or, you had the rap and roll bands. Why couldn't someone put a cap in their dumb *****?

And, then the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" generated what we have today. Tell me if this sounds familiar. The song starts with a mildly heavy, distorted riff. Then, the guitars fade to drums and bass, and the singer comes in with a soft, melodic verse. Here comes the pre-chorus, and guitars start kicking in and the singer reaches his pre-menstral stage. Wait, here comes the distorted guitars again - it must be chorus time. The singer in full-flow rage growls out a catchy little hook. Now, repeat this theme over and over and over and over and over and over again. Make the guitars a little heavier and the drummers play constant 16th notes on the kick drum and you've got nu-metal.

But, hey, what do I know. I'm just some old man playing covers in a bar. Its sooooo easy. I'd love to see you come up on stage with me.

I'm getting grumpy now. I've gotta go take a nap.

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08-27-2008, 09:16 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Orange and Black View Post
But, hey, what do I know. I'm just some old man playing covers in a bar. Its sooooo easy. I'd love to see you come up on stage with me.

I'm getting grumpy now. I've gotta go take a nap.
Im down

(thats like the 5th time ive said that in the past two days on the board )

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08-27-2008, 09:26 AM
  #62
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Im down

(thats like the 5th time ive said that in the past two days on the board )
Now, that'd be cool. We're at the Boathouse in Wildwood on Firday (8-12) and Sunday (2-6). And, on Saturday, we're at the Mystic Island Casion in Little Egg Harbor (10-2).

In the fall, we're in Conshohocken every Saturday at the Gypsy Saloon. Fridays, we're all over the place - from Cape May to Center City.

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08-27-2008, 10:04 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by sickamore View Post
Arrogant ignorance of youth.

Once that's lost you can argue technical prowess, but it's not what grabs you by the boo boo. That's not what separates them from the rest and gets attention. That's why the only popular bands of old men in rock are bands that already made it. There are never brand new old man rock bands that reach such heights. They play in bars and do covers to keep people interested.

Cliff is not missed for his bass playing, it was his arrogant ignorance. It was superior to the rest of the guys and drove them to the top of the underground, so to speak.
Could be...it is just that most great bands can compensate for that and mature as they get older. Which is my complaint about this new song by Craptallica. Instead of maturing, they are trying to recapture something they cant possibly at this point.

St Anger might not have been so horrible if it wasnt for that ungodly awlful drum sound...Continue to make a modern sounding record, but with better mix and production.

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08-27-2008, 10:25 AM
  #64
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Sort of but not really related.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...012327,00.html

and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...he-studio.html

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08-27-2008, 01:19 PM
  #65
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http://www.thegauntlet.com/article/3...Metallica.html

Wow, it's bad. At least they're sort of trying to sound like their old selves. I hope it's not the final mix because the drums sound absolutely horrible.

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08-27-2008, 01:36 PM
  #66
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http://www.thegauntlet.com/article/3...Metallica.html

Wow, it's bad. At least they're sort of trying to sound like their old selves. I hope it's not the final mix because the drums sound absolutely horrible.
What's bad is the copy that's up on that website.

I have the song downloaded. The copy on the website sounds like someone played it through a phone and then recorded it.

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08-27-2008, 01:55 PM
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It definitely sounds like Rick Rubin is going for an old school sound - especially the guitar sounds. I guess he needs to redeem his metal cred after producing the Dixie Chics.

I'm not thrilled with Lars' snare but his kick sounds much better than it has since the Black Album.

Good riffs on this jam, straight out rockin'. Thumbs up!

Now, here's what will follow.....

"I know Cliff doesn't play it so it has to suck. I know they're in their 40s so it has to suck. I know they're against Napster and free downloads so it has to suck. I know James passed puberty so he doesn't sound like he's 19 anymore, so it has to suck. I know its apparently "cool" to hate Metallica now and probably haven't even heard it yet, so it has to suck. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, my ***** hurts, so it has to suck. I know it would be easier not to post in this thread since I don't like them, but it has to suck anyway. I know I sound old school when I say they haven't made a good album since Master even though I was 2 when that album came out, so he has to suck."

There ya go. I took care of it for all the haters - the same people that must like Dave Matthews and Randy Jones. See, I'm a hell of a guy.


Last edited by Orange and Black: 08-27-2008 at 02:01 PM.
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08-27-2008, 02:15 PM
  #68
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Nope, I just thought it plain old sucked.

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08-27-2008, 02:17 PM
  #69
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It definitely sounds like Rick Rubin is going for an old school sound - especially the guitar sounds. I guess he needs to redeem his metal cred after producing the Dixie Chics.

I'm not thrilled with Lars' snare but his kick sounds much better than it has since the Black Album.

Good riffs on this jam, straight out rockin'. Thumbs up!

Now, here's what will follow.....

"I know Cliff doesn't play it so it has to suck. I know they're in their 40s so it has to suck. I know they're against Napster and free downloads so it has to suck. I know James passed puberty so he doesn't sound like he's 19 anymore, so it has to suck. I know its apparently "cool" to hate Metallica now and probably haven't even heard it yet, so it has to suck. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, my ***** hurts, so it has to suck. I know it would be easier not to post in this thread since I don't like them, but it has to suck anyway. I know I sound old school when I say they haven't made a good album since Master even though I was 2 when that album came out, so he has to suck."

There ya go. I took care of it for all the haters - the same people that must like Dave Matthews and Randy Jones. See, I'm a hell of a guy.
No, it sucks because the band is going backwards.....James, while obviously not 19 anymore, hasnt yet learned how to compensate for the loss in his vocals which happens with all singers (See Dio and Dickinson for how to do this) He sounds like he is straining to sing in that song and I heard a radio broadcast so it had to be the final version. I am all for straight forward rock riffs, but there is no imagination what-so-ever to the jam at the end of that song. It sounds to me like some competent bar bad trying to cover old Metallica. Hammet has become very, very one dimensional and Lars is a shell of his former self. I could care less who the bass player is cause while as great as Burton was and as much as I loved him, I am a big fan of Newsted as well, especially the backup vocals he added in concert. I was perfectly happy with AJFA through Load. Liked about half of Reload, but after that they have been terrible.......I even walked out of a live performance after 5 songs several years ago.

Any band is going to lose some of that "wow" factor as they get older. However, this band just has seemed to have lost all imagination in their music and it is rather boring, "been there, done that" these days.

I will obvioulsy give the rest of the album a listen, sometimes singles are the worst songs on there, however, it doesnt give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that the album is going to be any good.

Whatever "it" was that they had is gone

And for the record I love Dave Matthews, it is possible to like more than one style of music. Metallica used to have the variety, creativity and imagination in their music that a jazz/rock band like DMB has, but in the metal setting. That is certainly not there anymore

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08-27-2008, 02:18 PM
  #70
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Right. If you're trying to say attitude is important, then I agree. But, so is talent, groove, feel, passion for what you do, expanding and creating, and learning your craft.

But, on the other, if you're trying to say being a snot-nosed arrogant little ****** is the only requirement for creating new and exciting music, well then...

It was the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that made me watch hacks with lipstick steal Aerosmith and Zeppelin riffs and turn the music I love into commercialized dribble. Poison, Warrant, Slaughter, and all of their hair-plugged buddies killed heavy metal.

It was the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that made me sit through the Grunge era, which was rehashed and dumbed down music. The little twits that ran out and bought their flannels should've saved their money and taken some lessons. The message: I'm a depressed drug addict who doesn't want to be a rock star -waaaahhhh, but you better give me my 5 star reviews and put me on the cover of Rolling Stone. It also spawned a new, less talented, but equally as annoying Bono - Eddie Vedder. Makes me vomit.

It was "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that spawned modern "rock". The mindset of creating one radio-friendly hit and you're good to go killed the concept of making an album. It was pure style and image over substance. Record companies started signing these little teenage bands, "developing" them, and then putting them out for mass consumption. That's so edgy and rock n' roll. Or, you had the rap and roll bands. Why couldn't someone put a cap in their dumb *****?

And, then the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" generated what we have today. Tell me if this sounds familiar. The song starts with a mildly heavy, distorted riff. Then, the guitars fade to drums and bass, and the singer comes in with a soft, melodic verse. Here comes the pre-chorus, and guitars start kicking in and the singer reaches his pre-menstral stage. Wait, here comes the distorted guitars again - it must be chorus time. The singer in full-flow rage growls out a catchy little hook. Now, repeat this theme over and over and over and over and over and over again. Make the guitars a little heavier and the drummers play constant 16th notes on the kick drum and you've got nu-metal.

But, hey, what do I know. I'm just some old man playing covers in a bar. Its sooooo easy. I'd love to see you come up on stage with me.

I'm getting grumpy now. I've gotta go take a nap.
No wonder you're grumpy. Of course there is more than just the attitude to music, but the soul of rock music is in the attitude. You cannot learn it, teach it or bottle it. All the tricks and expansion of musical knowledge doesn't cover for it.

You're just some old man playing covers in a bar? It won't get any better for you. Sorry. I'm a grumpy old man for other reasons. My neighbor is a grumpy old man not even playing covers in a bar and thinks if he can find the right other people he will be a punk rock star. It won't happen. Kids don't give a shiznart about what old men are doing just like you don't care what kids are doing. You will continue to stagnate with your heroes pretending they'd get a sniff from a record company if they were playing the exact same music as their latest album, but they wouldn't. They would be your competition at Oldfarts Cafe and Pub every weekend.

I'm sorry you need to project your latest disappointment on me, but I never said it or even alluded that doing what you do is easy, but it's not saving the world and it has the smallest of effects on anyone that is not you. Walk a mile in my shoes and you'll be running for the nearest wedding reception gig.

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08-27-2008, 02:26 PM
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No wonder you're grumpy. Of course there is more than just the attitude to music, but the soul of rock music is in the attitude. You cannot learn it, teach it or bottle it. All the tricks and expansion of musical knowledge doesn't cover for it.

You're just some old man playing covers in a bar? It won't get any better for you. Sorry. I'm a grumpy old man for other reasons. My neighbor is a grumpy old man not even playing covers in a bar and thinks if he can find the right other people he will be a punk rock star. It won't happen. Kids don't give a shiznart about what old men are doing just like you don't care what kids are doing. You will continue to stagnate with your heroes pretending they'd get a sniff from a record company if they were playing the exact same music as their latest album, but they wouldn't. They would be your competition at Oldfarts Cafe and Pub every weekend.

I'm sorry you need to project your latest disappointment on me, but I never said it or even alluded that doing what you do is easy, but it's not saving the world and it has the smallest of effects on anyone that is not you. Walk a mile in my shoes and you'll be running for the nearest wedding reception gig.
Which is why once the attitude is gone, bands need to "grow up" and write intelligent, mature music that will appeal to the fans that have grown up with them, but still sound relevant to the time period. This is what Metallica has not figured out how to do.

Hey, obviously any song will have people that like it and people that dont. If the straight ahead, unimaginative rifs are peopls thing, and strained vocals are peoples thing that they may enjoy this song. However, Metallica was never about that. Even their "straight ahead" stuff like The Black Album and Load had some imagination to it. This does not. It is clearly a washed up band trying to recapture their youth and it just doesnt work that way.

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08-27-2008, 02:31 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Orange and Black View Post
Right. If you're trying to say attitude is important, then I agree. But, so is talent, groove, feel, passion for what you do, expanding and creating, and learning your craft.

But, on the other, if you're trying to say being a snot-nosed arrogant little ****** is the only requirement for creating new and exciting music, well then...

It was the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that made me watch hacks with lipstick steal Aerosmith and Zeppelin riffs and turn the music I love into commercialized dribble. Poison, Warrant, Slaughter, and all of their hair-plugged buddies killed heavy metal.

It was the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that made me sit through the Grunge era, which was rehashed and dumbed down music. The little twits that ran out and bought their flannels should've saved their money and taken some lessons. The message: I'm a depressed drug addict who doesn't want to be a rock star -waaaahhhh, but you better give me my 5 star reviews and put me on the cover of Rolling Stone. It also spawned a new, less talented, but equally as annoying Bono - Eddie Vedder. Makes me vomit.

It was "Arrogant ignorance of youth" that spawned modern "rock". The mindset of creating one radio-friendly hit and you're good to go killed the concept of making an album. It was pure style and image over substance. Record companies started signing these little teenage bands, "developing" them, and then putting them out for mass consumption. That's so edgy and rock n' roll. Or, you had the rap and roll bands. Why couldn't someone put a cap in their dumb *****?

And, then the "Arrogant ignorance of youth" generated what we have today. Tell me if this sounds familiar. The song starts with a mildly heavy, distorted riff. Then, the guitars fade to drums and bass, and the singer comes in with a soft, melodic verse. Here comes the pre-chorus, and guitars start kicking in and the singer reaches his pre-menstral stage. Wait, here comes the distorted guitars again - it must be chorus time. The singer in full-flow rage growls out a catchy little hook. Now, repeat this theme over and over and over and over and over and over again. Make the guitars a little heavier and the drummers play constant 16th notes on the kick drum and you've got nu-metal.

But, hey, what do I know. I'm just some old man playing covers in a bar. Its sooooo easy. I'd love to see you come up on stage with me.

I'm getting grumpy now. I've gotta go take a nap.
I feel for you man, my brother is a musician and tried making it in the music world. I even helped manage a couple bands, the industry in the US BLOWS!!!

Each band has an identity and something that "catches" the fans.

Motely Crue - Attitude, catchy simple songwriting
Dream Theater - Technical Prowess
Iron Maiden - Power, Technical Prowess, intelligent songwriting,
Metallica - Attitude, Technical Prowess, intelligent songwriting,

Once that "mad at the world" attitude leaves, bands have to make up for it with growth and maturity, technical prowess and intelligent mature songwriting.

Problem with Metallica is that they didnt just lose the attitude, they lost all of the above. Punk bands, and rock/metal bands that are heavily influenced by punk like Motley Crue have to keep that attitude otherwise they are finished.

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08-27-2008, 02:41 PM
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Orange and Black
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No wonder you're grumpy. Of course there is more than just the attitude to music, but the soul of rock music is in the attitude. You cannot learn it, teach it or bottle it. All the tricks and expansion of musical knowledge doesn't cover for it.

You're just some old man playing covers in a bar? It won't get any better for you. Sorry. I'm a grumpy old man for other reasons. My neighbor is a grumpy old man not even playing covers in a bar and thinks if he can find the right other people he will be a punk rock star. It won't happen. Kids don't give a shiznart about what old men are doing just like you don't care what kids are doing. You will continue to stagnate with your heroes pretending they'd get a sniff from a record company if they were playing the exact same music as their latest album, but they wouldn't. They would be your competition at Oldfarts Cafe and Pub every weekend.

I'm sorry you need to project your latest disappointment on me, but I never said it or even alluded that doing what you do is easy, but it's not saving the world and it has the smallest of effects on anyone that is not you. Walk a mile in my shoes and you'll be running for the nearest wedding reception gig.
Well, for better or worse, I'm surrounded by 16, 17, and 18 year olds every day at work. And, quite frankly, I'm shocked at the number of them that listen to Metallica, Slayer, Sabbath, Zeppelin, etc. It warms by cold hardened heart that good music lives on through the next generation. I don't know if you work with kids in any capacity, but if you don't I think you'd be shocked how different they are then they are portrayed.

I don't want to save the world. Nor, am I so vain or so self-absorbed to think I can. I enjoy helping kids see and reach their potential. And, I get to play music on the weekends. Its everything that I wanted to do when I graduated from college. I said it in another post. I'm lucky to do what I love to do everyday of the week and with people I love both at work and in my musical world. Even through the rough days, I enjoy every moment of my life.

As far as walking a mile in your shoes...Until you know something about me, don't suppose you know what I've been through, what I'm made of, or my fortitude. Its the one part of your post that made me laugh out loud.

And, please don't ever say I play in wedding band, because that's just hitting below the belt.

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08-27-2008, 02:48 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I feel for you man, my brother is a musician and tried making it in the music world. I even helped manage a couple bands, the industry in the US BLOWS!!!

Each band has an identity and something that "catches" the fans.

Motely Crue - Attitude, catchy simple songwriting
Dream Theater - Technical Prowess
Iron Maiden - Power, Technical Prowess, intelligent songwriting,
Metallica - Attitude, Technical Prowess, intelligent songwriting,

Once that "mad at the world" attitude leaves, bands have to make up for it with growth and maturity, technical prowess and intelligent mature songwriting.

Problem with Metallica is that they didnt just lose the attitude, they lost all of the above. Punk bands, and rock/metal bands that are heavily influenced by punk like Motley Crue have to keep that attitude otherwise they are finished.

It is a rough musical world out there no matter what level you happen to be at.

Once I went to college and figured out what exactly I wanted to do with my life, I left my rock star fantasies behind. But, I've never lost my anti-social, pissed at the world venom.

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08-27-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I feel for you man, my brother is a musician and tried making it in the music world. I even helped manage a couple bands, the industry in the US BLOWS!!!

Each band has an identity and something that "catches" the fans.

Motely Crue - Attitude, catchy simple songwriting
Dream Theater - Technical Prowess
Iron Maiden - Power, Technical Prowess, intelligent songwriting,
Metallica - Attitude, Technical Prowess, intelligent songwriting,

Once that "mad at the world" attitude leaves, bands have to make up for it with growth and maturity, technical prowess and intelligent mature songwriting.

Problem with Metallica is that they didnt just lose the attitude, they lost all of the above. Punk bands, and rock/metal bands that are heavily influenced by punk like Motley Crue have to keep that attitude otherwise they are finished.
Industry does suck ass. Thats one reason im studying audio engineering in school. No matter what, people are gonna still need people to record music. That way i can still always be in a band and make a living through music, which is every musicians goal, one way or another.

Also to Sickamore, There is nothing wrong with playing bars or clubs, if your still playing what you love, and making money, isnt that the dream all along? Who cares if you dont make millions and are famous. As long as your getting laid and rocking out, who cares how big a venue a musician plays?

And Mike... are you calling Motley Crue punk? Or saying they have a punkish "i dont give a ****" attitude.

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