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Backlund vs Schremp

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Old
08-24-2008, 06:31 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by flamesfan12 View Post
You are like the 3rd oiler poster to say this in this thread. He wants to play in the NHL as soon as this year. Don't think the flames will have any trouble with him not wanting to come here.
No slight intended. I'm just so used to hearing that European kids want to stay there that it came out like that. I'm sure he'd love to come over, his game is much more suited to North American hockey, anyways.

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08-24-2008, 06:37 PM
  #52
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And to respond to the seemingly amazing show he put on at prospect camp:

Sure, he looked good at prospect camp. ALL EUROPEANS DO. That's their thing, they're flashy and skilled. I know the Flames haven't drafted a skilled European in a while, and it might be shocking for their fans to see someone who doesn't just work the boards, hit, and score gritty goals. But that being said, just because they seem to have the puck on a string, have some dangles, and make some interesting passes, it doesn't mean they're the next all-star.
We've seen it too many times with Oilers' prospects. Mikhnov, Petersson, Quist, all come to mind. These guys all got "ooh's" and "aah's" from Oiler fans when we watched them in prospect camps. But even then, it's guys like Marc Pouliot that end up making the team, even if they don't stand out.

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08-24-2008, 07:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Backlund wasn't "held back" in Vasteras because they were afraid of losing him, he was "held back" because he wasn't showing the same amount of talent as guys like Berglund had. No team would hold back if a kid showed that kind of talent.
Backlund in his first year in the WJC, outperformed Berglund by a considerable margin in Berglunds first year in the WJC. As a matter of fact, Backlund was player of the game in two games as a rookie, and one of those was the championship game. Berglund was an all star in his second year, but not his first. If there are several players in Vasteras who are better than Backlund, why weren't they asked to play at the WJC? Why would Team Sweden scour lower lines on lower level teams to find talent for their WJC team? Because they actually know who the talented players in Sweden are. Did they look at his stats and pass him by? Unlike you and many of the posters on this board, they knew those stats don't mean anything. If he does end up playing in the WJC again this year, chances are he will put up better numbers.

As far as numbers and the WJC not meaning anything, do you think the performance of Kyle Turris, a young fellow from Canada means nothing? Are they expecting too much from him? After all, he also plays on a "minor league team". Backlund out pointed him in the WJC. Both rookies at the WJC, both minor leaguers.

The thing people harp on is that Backlund has not put up good numbers in Vasteras. There is a reason for that and it is going to become painfully obvious to people over time. I will just file this under the "I told you so" file for later reference.

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08-24-2008, 07:15 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
And to respond to the seemingly amazing show he put on at prospect camp:

Sure, he looked good at prospect camp. ALL EUROPEANS DO. That's their thing, they're flashy and skilled. I know the Flames haven't drafted a skilled European in a while, and it might be shocking for their fans to see someone who doesn't just work the boards, hit, and score gritty goals..
What a stupid statement. They drafted a sickly talented Euro just the season before, in Juuso Pusstenen.


It isn't "shock" that has people excited about Backlund.

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08-24-2008, 07:25 PM
  #55
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I don't think Pusstenen came to camp did he?

Honestly, watch Linus Omark highlights. The guy tears it up in the SEL, he has the vision, the heart, and the skills to tear it up at the pro levels there. Oiler fans aren't going to pass judgement till we see him play against NHL players in an actual training camp. The same should go for you guys and Backlund. I want to see him at Flames TC before you call him the next Huselius.

Is there any explanation for his poor numbers in a secondary division other than "his team wanted to make him look bad so no one would steal him", because if he's going to be a 60-70 pt player in the NHL, he's got to show some evidence in European pro leagues.

Otherwise, all that flashiness and no offensive production can be compared to Robby Schremp, can't it now?

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08-24-2008, 07:28 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I don't think Pusstenen came to camp did he?

Honestly, watch Linus Omark highlights. The guy tears it up in the SEL, he has the vision, the heart, and the skills to tear it up at the pro levels there. Oiler fans aren't going to pass judgement till we see him play against NHL players in an actual training camp. The same should go for you guys and Backlund. I want to see him at Flames TC before you call him the next Huselius.

Is there any explanation for his poor numbers in a secondary division other than "his team wanted to make him look bad so no one would steal him", because if he's going to be a 60-70 pt player in the NHL, he's got to show some evidence in European pro leagues.

Otherwise, all that flashiness and no offensive production can be compared to Robby Schremp, can't it now?
Why did Team Sweden select such a "poor prospect" with poor numbers on a lower line in a second tier team?

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08-24-2008, 07:28 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I don't think Pusstenen came to camp did he?.
Yup.

He played two years in the WHL. He was a very skilled European player. People aren't excited for Backlund because of a shock effect. It was a really dumb thing to say.

Quote:
I want to see him at Flames TC before you call him the next Huselius.
Thank god he isn't the next Huselius. He has a fantastic defensive game, and when the going gets tough, Backlund plays bigger.

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08-24-2008, 07:29 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by GiganticSnake View Post
I love how you start a thread, let 2 hours and 21 minutes pass by and then conclude that you have defeated the entire fanbase of the Oilers since none of them have posted a reply on a forum they don't visit.

Mod-edit: deleted.



Paying attention to HF ratings AND making a big deal out of them is, well, a sign of nerdness. To be envious of HF ratings of prospects on other teams is, well, what they sent people to institutions for in the 1800's.

Honestly, how can you even bother looking at the ratings AND take them seriously enough to complain about it? Please respond cause I'm honestly fascinated by how your mind worked on this one.



Mod-edit: deleted.

1. Backlund doesn't play in the SEL. Never has and never will. He plays a cut below the SEL.
2. Every league in Sweden counts secondary assists. Always has and always will.

Now, knowing these two things, how does the fact that Backlund played at a much lower level than you thought and that even though secondary assists are counted he still only managed 4 of them all year long change your opinion of how his season went?



What part of Backlund's play stood out during the regular season last year? His defensive shortcomings? His lack of scoring against poor opposition? His sometimes questionable work ethic? His attempted mustache?

Oh wait he had a great rookie camp FTW!!

Could it be that having played against men all year long he might have been expected to dominate against boys? Particularly against boys from a weak prospect pool?



I imagine he was talking about Patrik Berglund who outscored Backlund 45-13 for Västerås.

If you had seen Backlund play you would have seen his laziness on the backcheck. Well rounded game? If you consider someone who plays defense somewhere in between Huselius and Tanguay to have a well rounded game I'm with you on that one. He needs a LOT of work on the defensive side of his game before anyone can call him well rounded.



I'm with you here. It's not like the Oilers have had any impressive rookie performances in recent memory is it? Overrated busts the lot of them and none of them will ever have an impact at the NHL level anywhere near what our underrated guys are capable of!! Somewhere Kris Chucko laughs at Sam Gagner's rookie numbers and HFRating.



I'm sure Darryl Sutter and Jarome Iginla are crying in their sleep about how they continue to get screwed by the HFBoards ratings. Poor Flames. What did their franchise do to deserve this unjustice???? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if the Flames had just gotten slightly higher ratings on HFBoards we would have beaten the Sharks in the playoffs last year. Most people would agree with that I think.

I also enjoy how you advocate using a real skeptic, and then in another thread post how Backlund is ready for the NHL and should match what Backstrom did in his rookie year. That's being a hell of a skeptic saying Backlund will only get 70 points this season.

It's also being quite a skeptic to say that the reason he only played 3rd line in Västerås was a great scheme from the club to kill his stats so that he'd spend one more year playing for them.

I love how you get worked up over some guy on an Oilers forum rating Schremp 8.0D (whatever that means) and call them overly optimistic to the point where their homerism HURT the Calgary Flames, then you say Backlund right now is on par with where Zetterberg and Backstrom were during their rookie seasons.

Truly skeptic homerism on your part?

Also, paying attention to HF ratings AND making a big deal out of them is, well, a sign of nerdness. To be envious of HF ratings of prospects on other teams is, well, what they sent people to institutions for in the 1800's.

Honestly, how can you even bother looking at the ratings AND take them seriously enough to complain about it? Please respond cause I'm honestly fascinated by how your mind worked on this one.

*****
As for the topic at hand, I would pick Backlund over Schremp too.

That said, if Schremp was property of the Flames all you Schremp bashers would be signing his praise. He's an exciting player to watch. And we're excited about Daniel Ryder who hasn't even played hockey in a year. So come on.
This is an incredible post. Sums things up perfectly.

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Old
08-24-2008, 07:36 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
Backlund in his first year in the WJC, outperformed Berglund by a considerable margin in Berglunds first year in the WJC. As a matter of fact, Backlund was player of the game in two games as a rookie, and one of those was the championship game. Berglund was an all star in his second year, but not his first. If there are several players in Vasteras who are better than Backlund, why weren't they asked to play at the WJC? Why would Team Sweden scour lower lines on lower level teams to find talent for their WJC team? Because they actually know who the talented players in Sweden are. Did they look at his stats and pass him by? Unlike you and many of the posters on this board, they knew those stats don't mean anything. If he does end up playing in the WJC again this year, chances are he will put up better numbers.

As far as numbers and the WJC not meaning anything, do you think the performance of Kyle Turris, a young fellow from Canada means nothing? Are they expecting too much from him? After all, he also plays on a "minor league team". Backlund out pointed him in the WJC. Both rookies at the WJC, both minor leaguers.

The thing people harp on is that Backlund has not put up good numbers in Vasteras. There is a reason for that and it is going to become painfully obvious to people over time. I will just file this under the "I told you so" file for later reference.
You can't pick guys older than 19-year old for the WJC team genius, the entire Vasteras team is above that age except for Berglund and Backlund. Backlund didn't even out-point Turris, who is 6 months younger, so get your facts right.

Look at the games Sweden played. 4 goals against the Slovaks. 10 goals against DENMARK, 4 against Canada, 4 against the Czech. They were the highest scoring team in the tournament, they had 5 guys averaging a point/game or above. Backlund did his fare share, and he did impress. But after the tournament it was back to square 1 in the pro leagues.

Stop using the WJC as a measure of his overall output. Sure, it's a great indicator of prospect skill, but they have to translate that into success at pro levels as well, which Backlund has failed to do. Like I said, guys like Rita have had brilliant tournaments but did jack **** in pro games, dominated in prospect camps, but just couldn't produce at the NHL level.

And what is this "reason" we're all going to figure out for Backlund's lack of production? I'd really like to hear it.

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08-24-2008, 07:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
Why did Team Sweden select such a "poor prospect" with poor numbers on a lower line in a second tier team?
Like I said, he's by no means a poor prospect. He went in the 1st round for god sakes! Some people had him in their top-20! The thing is, I don't understand these 60-70 point predictions for him when he hasn't produced in the pro ranks. I want to see that pro game.

Plenty of guys have had great WJC tournaments and poor pro careers. Boyd Devereaux comes to mind. I think pro production is a better indicator of future NHL success than a WJC tournament.

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08-24-2008, 07:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Yup.

He played two years in the WHL. He was a very skilled European player. People aren't excited for Backlund because of a shock effect. It was a really dumb thing to say.


Thank god he isn't the next Huselius. He has a fantastic defensive game, and when the going gets tough, Backlund plays bigger.
I was talking in terms of Huselius' offensive production.

Anyways, how do you project Backlund's points output from now until say, the age of 23-25 (in the NHL)

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08-24-2008, 07:51 PM
  #62
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In terms of Raw skill its very close they are both very dynamic stickhandlers and have great vision. Schremp has a better shot for sure. Backlund is quicker for sure. Backlund also takes it defensively.

I'd take Backlund but its closer then you guys are making it out to be.

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08-24-2008, 07:54 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
He has a fantastic defensive game
No he hasn't.

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08-24-2008, 08:02 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
You can't pick guys older than 19-year old for the WJC team genius, the entire Vasteras team is above that age except for Berglund and Backlund. Backlund didn't even out-point Turris, who is 6 months younger, so get your facts right.
So there were not enough sub 20 year olds in the Elite league? And hat still doesn't explain why they would go for an 18 year old with poor stats. And as far as Turris scoring in the WJC, he had 5 pts. Backlund had 7 pts. Where the hell are you getting your stats?

Quote:
Look at the games Sweden played. 4 goals against the Slovaks. 10 goals against DENMARK, 4 against Canada, 4 against the Czech. They were the highest scoring team in the tournament, they had 5 guys averaging a point/game or above. Backlund did his fare share, and he did impress. But after the tournament it was back to square 1 in the pro leagues.
You haven't got a clue how he performed in the playoffs.

Quote:
Stop using the WJC as a measure of his overall output. Sure, it's a great indicator of prospect skill, but they have to translate that into success at pro levels as well, which Backlund has failed to do. Like I said, guys like Rita have had brilliant tournaments but did jack **** in pro games, dominated in prospect camps, but just couldn't produce at the NHL level.
I will stop using the WJC as a measure of overall output, when the NHL stops using it as a measure of overall output. And I sure hope you shut your mouth the next time the Oilers have a player perform well at the WJC because obviously, it means nothing as far as you are concerned.

Quote:
And what is this "reason" we're all going to figure out for Backlund's lack of production? I'd really like to hear it.

Oh I don't know, maybe ice time, special teams play just to mention a few. This lack of production did not appear to hold back Sweden's selectors for the WJC, you still haven't justified that.

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08-24-2008, 08:07 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
You haven't got a clue how he performed in the playoffs.
IIRC he started well against the weaker teams, then as the competition rose, his numbers fell

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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
I will stop using the WJC as a measure of overall output, when the NHL stops using it as a measure of overall output.
.
This statement is so true


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08-24-2008, 08:21 PM
  #66
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Chucko is a better prospect still, always has been. Schremp is a much better AHL player however, but both have huge holes in there games that might not ever get filled to take it to the next level.
Chris Chucko is a better prospect than Rob Schremp?

That's just insane.

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08-24-2008, 09:22 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
So there were not enough sub 20 year olds in the Elite league? And hat still doesn't explain why they would go for an 18 year old with poor stats. And as far as Turris scoring in the WJC, he had 5 pts. Backlund had 7 pts. Where the hell are you getting your stats?

You haven't got a clue how he performed in the playoffs.

I will stop using the WJC as a measure of overall output, when the NHL stops using it as a measure of overall output. And I sure hope you shut your mouth the next time the Oilers have a player perform well at the WJC because obviously, it means nothing as far as you are concerned.
I can only hope and pray that you are not trying insinuate that Backlund is in the same class as Kyle Turris.

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08-24-2008, 09:35 PM
  #68
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I'll say this much, Backlund is a definite lock to have a long, healthy NHL career than Rob Schremp is at this point.
I look at his stats and age and I say that is quite a reach.

Marek Zagrapan and Nicklas Bergfors say "hi".

Just because you're a highly skilled European player doesn't mean that you'll translate it to the AHL, let alone NHL.

Schremp has proven to be dominant offensively in the 2nd best league in North America, I'll take that over a guy that puts up a handfull of points in his countries 2nd best league.

Don't get me wrong, he could end up having a great year next year, but until any Euro that isn't of the stature of guys like Ovechkin and Malkin shows what they can do in North America I won't be planning on their 10+ year career.

Rita, Niinimaki, and Mikhnov have given me PLENTY enough of a reason to be skeptical.

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08-24-2008, 09:40 PM
  #69
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This is an incredible post. Sums things up perfectly.
Agreed, hes the only flames fan who has seen the guy play regularly and admits that Backlund has alot of work to do on the defensive side of the puck, yet everyone Flame fan in this thread is praising how well rounded he is based on a WJC and one rookie camp.

Im not even gonna argue MrMastodonFarm view on Schremp because we all know hes seen Schremp many times in action (im still trying to figure out how living in Calgary).

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08-24-2008, 09:53 PM
  #70
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(im still trying to figure out how living in Calgary).
I do?

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08-24-2008, 09:54 PM
  #71
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Chris Chucko is a better prospect than Rob Schremp?

That's just insane.
Tell me why.

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08-24-2008, 09:55 PM
  #72
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I do?
I know its not Springfield.

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08-24-2008, 09:56 PM
  #73
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I can only hope and pray that you are not trying insinuate that Backlund is in the same class as Kyle Turris.

I am not insinuating anything, Backlund outscored him at the WJC. That after an Oiler fan, said he didn't.

Backlund performed as well as Turris at that tournament. You are entitled to draw your own conclusions.

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08-24-2008, 09:58 PM
  #74
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No he hasn't.
Then we will disagree. I've seen a very good two-way player in what I've seen of Backlund. He's always been dedicated to him way back when I first seen him play at the Macs Midget tournament in Calgary.

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08-24-2008, 10:01 PM
  #75
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I know its not Springfield.
Nope. I watch plenty of AHL games online however. (though less this season due to job schedule change). I seen Schremp and the Falcons a handful of times each of the past two seasons, and seen him plenty in junior as well.

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