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Gomez to Vancouver(e4)

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Old
08-27-2008, 11:38 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Yeah. Mitchell as of right now is 100x better being a shutdown defenseman.

imo No 'effective shutdown defenseman' would ever allow Marian Gaborik to score 6 goals against his team. 6 goals? C'mon...
You do know that Staal was a +1 in that game, right? and Gaborik scored 5 not 6.

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08-27-2008, 11:38 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by quat View Post
Staal was great in the playoffs! However, I don't think you can really compare players when one played in playoffs vs one who didn't. You have no idea how Edler would or wouldn't have played.
Edler has played in the playoffs, in 2007 when he was the same age as Staal was this playoff. He had no points and played about 11 minutes per game.

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08-27-2008, 11:48 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
You do know that Staal was a +1 in that game, right? and Gaborik scored 5 not 6.
Sorry. 6 points.

Hmmm... The plus-minus stat. It's speaks volumes. Nonetheless, Gaborik scored 6 points in that game. Against NY's defensemen. But not Staal? So... if it wasn't Gaborik he was 'shutting down', who was it? Rolston? Good practice for the upcoming NJ games then...

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08-27-2008, 12:10 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
You do know that Staal was a +1 in that game, right? and Gaborik scored 5 not 6.
Which would mean that the Rangers didn't put Staal on the ice against Gaborik. I thought he was a shutdown defensemen who played against every teams top players? lol.

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08-27-2008, 12:18 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Summary: It's pretty even if you ask me, and although Edler's been more active offensively, the points gap isn't as wide as some people would like to believe. Edler's also one year older and ahead in development, so I'd project that it would be pretty even right now if they were the same year. One is slightly better offensively at this point, and the other is slightly better defensively. It all depends on what you value more.
Fantastic post, but as someone else mentioned... 5-6 years ago Edler was playing beer league hockey. The reasoning behind Vancouver perhaps overvaluing him is because his development rate has been unbelievable - to get to where he is now after just 1 year in Modo Jr, then 1 year in the WHL, then 1 year with the Moose, to a full time Canuck last year... It's something our fans haven't seen in a long time and that adds to his mystique. Who knows what this guy can do - he's only been playing competitive hockey for four years!

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08-27-2008, 12:26 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
Which would mean that the Rangers didn't put Staal on the ice against Gaborik. I thought he was a shutdown defensemen who played against every teams top players? lol.
it was early in the season, in december and at the time Staal was playing 3rd pairing. But yeah since Staal played 3rd pairing early in his rookie year, hes not better than Edler

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08-27-2008, 12:27 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Typical Habs' fan Eastern Conference-tunnel vision. Easily the most biased fans in hockey. It's like dealing with Chelsea fans or something. Yikes.
How is he being Biased? jeez some Vancouver fans dont like to get critict at all, eh?

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08-27-2008, 12:45 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Both Staal and Edler are good young defenseman. Naturally, I've seen more of Staal, but in the same notion, of I've seen more than enough of Edler (Center Ice, have had it since 02).

With that being said, Edler has played with a better and deeper defense unit so far, despite their injury troubles. With that being the case, Edler was easily one of their top-3 best defenders, if not top-2.

Staal was the best and most consistent defender all year long on a defense unit that was about average. He didn't get many points because he wasn't used on the power play until the playoffs, and didn't even get much time then on the 2nd unit. As he the year progressed, and Renney felt more comfortable with him, he started to jump into the play a little more, even beginning to lead the rush and go deep into the offensive zone with the puck after the mid-way point of the season. Hopefully he gets the power play time he deserves this year, and Renney doesn't keep him on a very short leash. He's proven that he can play, and he's arguably the team's best defenseman, Redden included.

Pros

Edler

- Plays a slightly more offensive game than Staal.

- Has a good shot, knows how to get it on net.

- Solid positionally for a young defender.

- Good skater, with good size, matches up well against all kinds of forwards.

- Not overly physical, but physical enough to handle the bigger forwards.

Staal

- Plays more of a defensive game than Edler.

- Has a decent shot as well.

- EXCELLENT positional play and smarts for a young defenseman.

- Solid skater with similar size to Edler, can match up against a lot of different forwards.

- Excellent hitter, knows how to throw a big hit without getting caught out of position to do so, and can hit very hard for someone who still needs to fill out.

Cons

Edler

- Needs to be more physical. For his size, I'd like to see him assert himself a little more. Could be an absolute monster.

- Could anticipate the play better as in when and when not to jump up. There are times where he can sneak in backdoor and he doesn't. Maybe that's just jitters, maybe Vigneault keeps him on a tight leash like Renney did with Staal early on.

- I'd like to see Edler shoot a little more. Hopefully for Vancouver, he'll get more pp time this year. Salo aside, Edler's got the best shot of all of their defenseman.

Staal

- I'd like to see him jump into the play more. He's got a good shot, and can score some goals. His first goal on Brodeur was a total snipe. He had about 2 inches and made it look like he had the broad side of a barn.

- This point ties into the first point, sort of... getting caught when jumping up. It's a rookie mistake that he'll probably fix, and it didn't happen all too often, so I'm not that worried.

- Not enough power play time. Somewhat of a circumstance beyond his control, but he needs it, and he'll get it for sure if he becomes a little more active offensively.

Summary: It's pretty even if you ask me, and although Edler's been more active offensively, the points gap isn't as wide as some people would like to believe. Edler's also one year older and ahead in development, so I'd project that it would be pretty even right now if they were the same year. One is slightly better offensively at this point, and the other is slightly better defensively. It all depends on what you value more.

Upsides: To me, they both remind me of Mattias Ohlund. Someone who can easily be your top defenseman. A guy who can shutdown the top forwards, and contribute offensively at the other end.

Let me add there that from what I saw later in the year from Staal with him rushing the puck, I could be underrating his offensive abilities and potential.

However, this is one is to be continued.
I'm sorry, but I am going to quote the whole thing to get this thread back on track. This is a wonderful summary. I wish there were more posters around here like you, Coldshot.

This is the type of discussion we need more of. Rather than the angry, biased viewpoints from each home team.

I honestly wonder if the people in this thread have even seen both players play at least a handful of games. I have, and I believe Coldshot is right on. I would only make one small change and mention that the Ohlund comparison is quite an accurate one, but I think of the younger, more mobile Ohlund when I think of Staal and Edler.

These are two amazing young defenseman. They can both do it all and they have huge upside. It comes down to where the ceiling is for each player because all the pieces are there.

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08-27-2008, 12:51 PM
  #359
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It isn't happening.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl,103850

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08-27-2008, 01:16 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
it was early in the season, in december and at the time Staal was playing 3rd pairing. But yeah since Staal played 3rd pairing early in his rookie year, hes not better than Edler
The argument in this case was Staal vs. Mitchell as a 'shutdown defenseman.' fyi

Let's keep our off-topic arguments on track, please.

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08-27-2008, 01:29 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
The argument in this case was Staal vs. Mitchell as a 'shutdown defenseman.' fyi

Let's keep our off-topic arguments on track, please.
alright, Have you ever watched Staal play? your going by stats, in 1 GAME. so obviously you have not seen him play in the NHL.

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08-27-2008, 01:45 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Yeah. Mitchell as of right now is 100x better being a shutdown defenseman.

imo No 'effective shutdown defenseman' would ever allow Marian Gaborik to score 6 goals against his team. 6 goals? C'mon...
only in his dreams would Gaborik score 6 goals

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08-27-2008, 02:06 PM
  #363
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A hockey rumor "blogger," whose hit-to-miss ratio rivals that of a visually impaired Imperial stormtrooper...
Nice start to the blog. Nice start indeed.

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08-27-2008, 02:23 PM
  #364
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I listened to Larry Brooks on the Bill Berg 590 Radio show today. And Brooks went on to say that if Sundin comes back to play, he will play for the Rangers.

Also, today, Brooks wrote in the NY Post that the Rangers have no intentions of trading Gomez to create cap space. Well, since Bill Berg said the Sundin's agent told him that his client, if he returns to play, expects to be paid market value, how can the Rangers fit Sundin, if they don't plan to move a major contract?

Would Sather give out a multi-million dollar bonus laden contract that would go against next seasons cap? Is there some type of limit on the amount of bonuse that will carry the cap hit over into the following season??

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08-27-2008, 02:26 PM
  #365
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Would Sather give out a multi-million dollar bonus laden contract that would go against next seasons cap? Is there some type of limit on the amount of bonuse that will carry the cap hit over into the following season??
There's no performance bonus cushion this year at all, so Sather would definitely not be able to do that.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=242079

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08-27-2008, 02:40 PM
  #366
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I listened to Larry Brooks on the Bill Berg 590 Radio show today. And Brooks went on to say that if Sundin comes back to play, he will play for the Rangers.

Also, today, Brooks wrote in the NY Post that the Rangers have no intentions of trading Gomez to create cap space. Well, since Bill Berg said the Sundin's agent told him that his client, if he returns to play, expects to be paid market value, how can the Rangers fit Sundin, if they don't plan to move a major contract?

Would Sather give out a multi-million dollar bonus laden contract that would go against next seasons cap? Is there some type of limit on the amount of bonuse that will carry the cap hit over into the following season??
God, i hate Larry Brooks. first he says that Sundin rumors to NY are false, and the next week he says Sundin will sign for 2 mil. the guys a hack IMO.


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08-27-2008, 02:43 PM
  #367
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There's no performance bonus cushion this year at all, so Sather would definitely not be able to do that.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=242079
Very interesting. So, if Sundin does go to the Rangers and unless he gives them one of the best discounts ever in the game, Slats will have to move salary.

Thanks for the find.

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08-27-2008, 02:46 PM
  #368
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God, i hate Larry Brooks. first he says that Sundin rumors to NY are false, and the next week he says Sundin will sign for 2 mil. the guys a hack IMO.

He was very adamant that Sundin, if he comes back, wants to be a Ranger. Something about is love of NYC and wanting to live and play there.

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08-27-2008, 02:53 PM
  #369
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He was very adamant that Sundin, if he comes back, wants to be a Ranger. Something about is love of NYC and wanting to live and play there.
i dont know, i still dont buy the Sundin wants to be a Ranger thing. i think he'll stay with the Leafs.

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08-27-2008, 03:01 PM
  #370
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i dont know, i still dont buy the Sundin wants to be a Ranger thing. i think he'll stay with the Leafs.
Berg did say that Leafs owners-ship wants him back, but not Fletcher, he wants Tavares.

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08-27-2008, 03:04 PM
  #371
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Berg did say that Leafs owners-ship wants him back, but not Fletcher, he wants Tavares.
Yeah, but they have Hollweg now, so they still might get Tavares

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08-27-2008, 03:11 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Fantastic post, but as someone else mentioned... 5-6 years ago Edler was playing beer league hockey. The reasoning behind Vancouver perhaps overvaluing him is because his development rate has been unbelievable - to get to where he is now after just 1 year in Modo Jr, then 1 year in the WHL, then 1 year with the Moose, to a full time Canuck last year... It's something our fans haven't seen in a long time and that adds to his mystique. Who knows what this guy can do - he's only been playing competitive hockey for four years!
The league Edler played in wasn't exactly a beer league. It was the Swedish 3rd division. Gradin made a comment about it being slightly better than a beer league but he later clarified that it was a joke. Edler was only 17 years old and went undiscovered because the location of the town was so remote. He was the leagues best player at 17 as a defensemen and Thomas Gradin got a tip from a friend. Gradin himself said he was in awe when he saw how well Edler moved the puck as a 17 year old.

Not long after Gradin saw him play Ken Holland got wind of Edler and traded up that year to the 97th pick to draft him. When Nonis got wind of Holland trading up, he did the same and traded the Canucks 3rd round pick the following year (deemed deeper) to Dallas to get their 91st pick.

The Red Wings were huge on Edler and we all know how well they are at judging talent. Their draft history speaks for itself. The only reason they didn't pick Edler in the 1st 2 rounds, was because they didn't have a 1st and 2nd round pick that year.

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08-27-2008, 03:13 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
The league Edler played in wasn't exactly a beer league. It was the Swedish 3rd division. Gradin made a comment about it being slightly better than a beer league but he later clarified that it was a joke. Edler was only 17 years old and went undiscovered because the location of the town was so remote. He was the leagues best player at 17 as a defensemen and Thomas Gradin got a tip from a friend.

Not long after Gradin saw him play Ken Holland got wind of Edler and traded up that year to the 97th pick to draft him. When Nonis got wind of Holland trading up, he did the same and traded the Canucks 3rd round pick the following year (deemed deeper) to Dallas to get their 91st pick.

The Red Wings were huge on Edler and we all know how well they are at judging talent. Their draft history speaks for itself. The only reason they didn't pick Edler in the 1st 2 rounds, was because they didn't have a 1st and 2nd round pick that year.
So if the Red Wings like him i guess he's the next Lidstrom, eh?

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08-27-2008, 03:17 PM
  #374
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So if the Red Wings like him i guess he's the next Lidstrom, eh?
Correct.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008...dlers_the.html

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For Andersson, Alex Edler's the 'one who got away
"He said the best player on their men's team was this kid," Andersson says. "I said to find out how old he is, and my friend called me back and said he was born in 1986, which was that draft year (2004). I didn't have time to go see him until late January or early February. It's a seven- or eight-hour drive."

But Andersson liked what he saw enough that he wanted a second look at Edler, during the Third Division playoffs.

"The second time I went to see him, I called the coach first, just to make sure [Edler] was playing," Andersson says. "It turned out the coach was friends with an agent, and the agent starts sending e-mails to scouts, saying you should come and see this kid. When I think back - and this has been on my mind many times - I think that was my mistake. I never should have phoned the coach. It was just me being a little lazy."

Fast forward to the 2004 draft. The Wings had traded their first-round pick to Washington (which would, ironically, become Capitals #1 defenceman Mike Green) and their second-round pick had been tossed away, too, so the Wings had to wait until the third round to get their hands on Edler. The Canucks happened to have no second or third-round picks, but they found a way to remedy the situation:

"As soon as the Canucks got that pick," Andersson says, "I told everyone at our table I'd eat everything on it if Vancouver didn't take Edler. We drafted Johan Franzen, so we still got a good prospect with our pick. But I still think about that phone call I made. The fun part in all this is seeing how well Alex is playing."

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08-27-2008, 03:25 PM
  #375
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Hakan Andersson is probably the best talent scout in the NHL. Look at the list of guys he's recommended to the Red Wings.

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