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Old
08-23-2008, 09:40 PM
  #26
spot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Dubinsky played 3rd line minutes for about half the season and got bumped up to first line with Jagr and Straka. He was 2nd in Faceoff % and played PK and PP very affectivly, Jagrs play wasnt very good until Dubinsky went onto his line. I will admit Cogliano is a better Goalscorer than Dubi but not a better all-around player.
Fair enough they are both pretty damn good players. Cogs = sucks on face offs, however is one of our most trusted PK. He is a threat short handed due to his speed. Both teams have a bright future, I think the Rangers have a great chance at immediate success hence why I made the proposal. Addin Sundin would put you guys over the top in the Eastern conf. At least able to play with the big 3 (Ott, Mon, Pit)

Maybe instead of Ottawa sub in Philly or Wsh!

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08-23-2008, 09:42 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spot View Post
Fair enough they are both pretty damn good players. Cogs = sucks on face offs, however is one of our most trusted PK. He is a threat short handed due to his speed. Both teams have a bright future, I think the Rangers have a great chance at immediate success hence why I made the proposal. Addin Sundin would put you guys over the top in the Eastern conf. At least able to play with the big 3 (Ott, Mon, Pit)
I might get flamed for this but i dont think Pitt or Ottawa is in the Big 3, i think its Philly, and Montreal, there really is no need for a 3rd team. But based on Glen Sather Gomez isnt going anywhere, neither is Drury.

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Old
08-23-2008, 09:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
I might get flamed for this but i dont think Pitt or Ottawa is in the Big 3, i think its Philly, and Montreal, there really is no need for a 3rd team. But based on Glen Sather Gomez isnt going anywhere, neither is Drury.
ha ha I just edited that too. Changed it to the Flyers. However watch out for the Caps love how they play!!

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Old
08-23-2008, 09:58 PM
  #29
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Umm, if it WERE for signing Sundin for a cheap-ish contract and for 2 years (around $5M) - I'd definitely take Cogliano and a 3rd for Gomez, without giving up the pick. Or Cogliano and a 3rd pair defenseman/#7.

It's fair, IF we were doing this to sign Sundin and shed salary.

Cogliano is probably slightly better than Dubinsky as of yet, but that doesn't mean I would shift Dubinsky to fourth line center. That's borderline ********. Just means Drury would be shifted to wing so Dubi could center behind Sundin or Cogliano could and Dubi 3rd. None of those 3 centers will never do anything to have to play with offensively putrid fourth line players.

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08-23-2008, 10:04 PM
  #30
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Funny how Gomez is the best player on the team while not actually being the top-line (read: best) center according to GSHNYR. Dubinsky may have played with Jagr on the top line, but that does not mean that he is better than Gomez or Drury. You are twisting the meaning of top-line center. Him playing on the top line means nothing if he is only the third-best center on the team.

Technically, one could say that Pascal Dupuis was a top-line LW for the Penguins in the playoffs and be correct, since he played on the top line. But that does not mean that he was the best LW on the team. Same thing applies to Dubinsky.

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Old
08-23-2008, 10:44 PM
  #31
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Why the extra 3rd rounders between Edmonton and NYR?

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Old
08-23-2008, 10:46 PM
  #32
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Edm says yes.
Min says NO.
NYR says NO.

2 against 1. NO deal.

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Old
08-23-2008, 10:47 PM
  #33
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Surprisingly enough, I don't hate it from a Rangers POV. Cogliano is a very good young player and I think (read: hope ) Edmonton's 3rd will be higher than ours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckle View Post
Edm says yes.
Min says NO.
NYR says NO.

2 against 1. NO deal.
That's a great return for a pending UFA and I think Cogliano could wind up being a very similar player to Gomez, perhaps with more goal scoring to boot.

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Old
08-23-2008, 10:51 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spot View Post
Please not that a rookie (cogs) had more goals then Gomer last year, playing for the most part third line minutes all season. I think you may be underrating Andrew a bit
Maybe because GOMEZ IS A PLAYMAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A playmaker who had more assists than Cogs had points, BTW. I like Cogs, but come on now.

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Old
08-23-2008, 11:00 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spot View Post
Was discussing this in the Gomez thread. I came up with this idea and wanted to collect a few thoughts. With all the hopplala surrounding Gomez and Gaborik and how the Oilers are always looking to upgrade the roster I thought I would add all three teams.

Keep in mind NYR motivation for this trade is to free up $$ then go for Sundin
Minnesota wants to either sign or trade Marion before the season starts
Edmonton wants to reduce the amount of players on their roster and upgrade at LW



To Edmonton Gabby NYR 3rd...........gets rid of a few bodies and upgrades hugely LW

To minessota Gomez, Smid Edm 2nd 09, Poulliot...good return on a UFA...#1 center

To NYR Cogliano, Edm 3rd...........effectively dump salary and win this trade
The Rangers are not going to dump Gomez to sign Sundin. They gave Gomez that contract for a reason.

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Old
08-24-2008, 03:05 AM
  #36
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No. Minnesota already has a playmaker that doesn't score a lot of goals. Plus they have a glut of centers right now, which is odd. Pouliot, Belanger, Sheppard and Koivu. Where would Gomez go? Plus Gomez is way, way over paid. And Smid? Uh, we got 7-8 defensemen as it is. Smid would probably be seeing 3rd pairing minutes...

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Old
08-24-2008, 11:38 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Dubinsky > Cogliano
I'm not going to pretend that I am pro scout who has the book on both players. I watched pretty much every Oil game last year, either live or on tv and I can say that Cogliano is an all around threat even though he never rec'd top line minutes and never played with Hemsky or got #1 PP time.

Pros:

Blazing speed. Clutch scorer. A nose for the net and a penchant for playmaking. His hockey is one of best attributes.


Cons:

Needs to work on his defensive game and face offs, but what young kid doesn't? Was still a + player even though the Oil missed the dance. Smallish at 5-10 185lbs.


Stats:
82games 18-27-45pts +1 - Only 13:39 TOI

*****************

What I know of Dubinsky. He played with Jagr and Straka when he was most productive. He had scored less goals and assists with more ice time. Had a better +/-, but played on a playoff team.

Stats:

82 games 14-26-40pts +8 - 14:28 TOI



Being from out West I don't take the opportunity to watch very many Eastern Conference teams besides, the Leafs (effin' CBC), Sabres, Pens, Habs, Philly and Caps so I can't say I even know what kind of player Dubinsky is like to watch. I suspect that your not the most avid Oil fan either if you are generating such a opinion of Cogliano when the numbers are so simliar yet our guy didn't play with any established talent and was on a non playoff team.

I guess the long and short of it is, do you watch many Oilers games? I know I don't watch the Rags so my opinions are mostly of a statistical nature. I find many posters here at HF boards spout off stuff about players from markets that they don't really follow and thus don't know anything about the players except for what they read and see on hilite packages.

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Old
08-24-2008, 11:44 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
I'm not going to pretend that I am pro scout who has the book on both players. I watched pretty much every Oil game last year, either live or on tv and I can say that Cogliano is a all around threat. He ever rec'd top line minutes, never played with Hemsky or got #1 PP time.

Pros:

Blazing speed. Clutch scorer. A nose for the net and a penchant for playmaking. His hockey is one of best attributes.


Cons:

Needs to work on his defensive game and face offs, but what young kid doesn't? Was still a + player even though the Oil missed the dance. Smallish at 5-10 185lbs.


Stats:
82games 18-27-45pts +1 - Only 13:39 TOI

*****************

What I know of Dubinsky. He played with Jagr and Straka when he was most productive. He had scored less goals and assists with more ice time. Had a better +/-, but played on a playoff team.

Stats:

82 games 14-26-40pts +8 - 14:28 TOI



Being from out West I don't take the opportunity to watch very many Eastern Conference teams besides, the Leafs (effin' CBC), Sabres, Pens, Habs, Philly and Caps so I can't say I even know what kind of player Dubinsky is like to watch. I suspect that your not the most avid Oil fan either if you are generating such a opinion of Cogliano when the numbers are so simliar yet our guy didn't play with any established talent and was on a non playoff team.

I guess the long and short of it is, do you watch many Oilers games? I know I don't watch the Rags so my opinions are mostly of a statistical nature. I find many posters here at HF boards spout off stuff about players from markets that they don't really follow and thus don't know anything about the players except for what they read and see on hilite packages.
Dubinskys

Pro's
-----------------------
Very Physical. Stays in Front of the Net. Makes players around him better(Jagr was on pace for around 60-62 points but once Dubinsky was on his line JJ's production shot up). Very Good Faceoff man. Can Kill a Penalty. Great Hockey sense.

Cons
-------------------
Not the Greatest Fighter. Can work on Goalscoring.




Obviously both can really swing the other way in production, and they both just finished there rookie season. i guess it wasnt fair of me to say Dubinsky > Cogliano.

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Old
08-24-2008, 12:13 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Gomez >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cogliano

Gomez is already a #1 centre and the best player on a team why trade him away. for Cogliano, and you add to it by the Rangers giving up a 3rd.
So Gomez is your #1 C

Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
so your 3rd line centre last year is better than our 1st line centre last year.....okay then.
And here Dubi is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
we rotated 3 lines

Straka-Dubinsky-Jagr
Shanny-Gomez-Avery
Dawes-Drury-Callahan
Orr-Betts-Hollweg/Sjostrom
Oh so you get to claim you have 3 #1C's then. I get it. And since you missed it up there. The Rags are closer to a cup this year after this deal. Sundin + Cogliano >>> Gomez + 3rd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWINK19 View Post
Maybe because GOMEZ IS A PLAYMAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A playmaker who had more assists than Cogs had points, BTW. I like Cogs, but come on now.
Cogliano was also a 20yo rookie last year, playing his first pro season. He's got a long and bright future ahead of him. His speed allows him to cover so much ice that he can afford to take risks in the offensive zone. He's a great player, and if we weren't getting back a guy like Gabby, I'd be opposed to trading him at all.

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Old
08-24-2008, 01:33 PM
  #40
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Pretty good deal but Edmonton needs to give alittle more than they did 4 a top goal scorer like Gabby

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Old
08-24-2008, 01:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by brownking View Post
Pretty good deal but Edmonton needs to give alittle more than they did 4 a top goal scorer like Gabby

So what if I subtracted Poulliot and added Penner? Again alot for the Oil to give up, however worth it in full for Gabby. Cogs & Penner are both great young players who when combined will equall Gabby's totals. Now that we have another power forward in Cole maybe Penner could be thrown into the deal? Is that a fair return for Minny now? Don't forget Gabby is a UFA next season. He has had numerous injuries and has never played a full season. In fact (surprsingly) he has never scored more the 75pts!

* Just remembered why I didn't include Penner in the initial proposal. That would be ALOT of salary for Minny to absorb. Gomez + Penner

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Old
08-24-2008, 03:30 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
So Gomez is your #1 C



And here Dubi is...



Oh so you get to claim you have 3 #1C's then. I get it. And since you missed it up there. The Rags are closer to a cup this year after this deal. Sundin + Cogliano >>> Gomez + 3rd.



Cogliano was also a 20yo rookie last year, playing his first pro season. He's got a long and bright future ahead of him. His speed allows him to cover so much ice that he can afford to take risks in the offensive zone. He's a great player, and if we weren't getting back a guy like Gabby, I'd be opposed to trading him at all.


You're missing my point. Cogs having more goals was submitted as proof that he's a better player. But it's not really a fair comparison, because Gomez is not a goal scorer, outside of the one year he scored 33 for my boys. Now, Cogs may very well surpass Gomez in the future, but right now he's got some work to do. And again, I like the kid. Have him on a couple of my teams and am trying to get him on others.

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Old
08-24-2008, 06:49 PM
  #43
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The original deal looks really confusing, I'll try to balance it out:

To EDM: Gaborik

To MIN: Gomez, Smid, EDM Conditional pick (1st rounder if Gaborik re-signs, 2nd if he doesn't)

To NYR Cogliano, MIN 2nd

I see no reason to stick Pouliot in this trade, unless the Rangers want him.

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Old
08-24-2008, 06:55 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
The original deal looks really confusing, I'll try to balance it out:

To EDM: Gaborik

To MIN: Gomez, Smid, EDM Conditional pick (1st rounder if Gaborik re-signs, 2nd if he doesn't)

To NYR Cogliano, MIN 2nd

I see no reason to stick Pouliot in this trade, unless the Rangers want him.
U know what that does look better and makes more sense for all involved. THANKS

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Old
08-24-2008, 07:43 PM
  #45
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Why the hell would Edmonton get rid of a huge chunk of their future talent for Gaborik? Gaborik's a great player, but I would not mortgage the future on him.

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Old
08-24-2008, 09:49 PM
  #46
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The Wild get boned.

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Old
08-25-2008, 01:07 AM
  #47
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Every proposal in this thread has been Garbage.

As for that last one...

Edmonton gets Gaborik and gives up only Cogliano and Smid, with the two of them going to seperate teams... Big Win for Edmonton.

Minnesota gets Gomez and Conditionals... *****.

Rangers get Cogliano and a 2nd? Get me a bottle of pepper spray, stat.

I'll take a stab at this.

Edmonton gets: Marian Gaborik
Minnesota gets: Scott Gomez, Nigel Dawes, 1st rounder, 2nd rounder
New York gets: Andrew Cogliano, Ladislav Smid, 1st rounder

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Old
08-25-2008, 11:40 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Dubinsky > Cogliano
Holy Homerism Batman!
Please tell us how Dubinsky is better than Cogliano

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Old
08-25-2008, 12:28 PM
  #49
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Having watched all the Rangers games last year, Gomez is the best forward on the team. He's 28, incredibly durable having played in almost every game the last five NHL seasons, and is a point per game player in the last five NHL playoffs.

Assuming that Sather and Renney watched all the games last year as well, they are not going to trade him away cheaply and certainly not solely to have a 38 year old Sundin for one year.

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Old
08-25-2008, 12:42 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Every proposal in this thread has been Garbage.

As for that last one...

Edmonton gets Gaborik and gives up only Cogliano and Smid, with the two of them going to seperate teams... Big Win for Edmonton.

Minnesota gets Gomez and Conditionals... *****.

Rangers get Cogliano and a 2nd? Get me a bottle of pepper spray, stat.

I'll take a stab at this.

Edmonton gets: Marian Gaborik
Minnesota gets: Scott Gomez, Nigel Dawes, 1st rounder, 2nd rounder
New York gets: Andrew Cogliano, Ladislav Smid, 1st rounder
The basis of all these NYR threads is that Gomez would likely be moved to make room for Sundin. If that is the case NY will not get fair value for Gomez. Cogliano, Smid and a 1st for a player you need to drop for salary to sign Sundin? Keep dreaming. Any GM put in a tough spot is going to be bent over the barrel; not negotiate a fair value return.

Besides which Edmonton gives up a rookie who was VERY impressive in his first NHL season for one year of Gaborik? THe conditionals were tyo balance out the likelyhood he'd resign. Same way EDM got the conditional from the Pronger trade.

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