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Old
08-24-2008, 11:21 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I've looked at the Leafs' roster over and over, and aside from Kaberle, I really don't see a player who would be an improvement over what we already have.
Wouldn't take Steen over Kostopoulos/Begin, huh? Antro over Lapierre/Chipchura? Kubina over Bouillon? My goodness, does the East bother playing or should we just forgo the season and have the Wings and Habs play a 7 gamer in October?

BTW, the Leafs take this offer and run.

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08-24-2008, 11:24 PM
  #27
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I'd take Kulemin, Stralman, Antropov and Kaberle off the leafs.

Kubina, if he had a year left and maybe McCabe if he had a year left.

Cujo would be a key back up for us. Though, he signed with Toronto for a reason.

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08-24-2008, 11:28 PM
  #28
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So they trade one of their best goalies in history that(top 5 maybe top 3) that they just re-signed and trade him? Yeah,no

But Toronto would win this deal Habs say no Can get more for Halak in a few years

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08-25-2008, 12:19 AM
  #29
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Based on what ive read in the responses, Is that most of the habs fans are absolutely against this trade, and most of the toronto ones are for or slightly against this trade.

I believe that this trade may be slightly skewed towards toronto, thus the final trade would probobly include a 2nd and a minor prospect as well.

Antropov would probobly center the 2nd line behind koivu, and i wouldnt be suprised if they flanked him with some size and scoring.

Im not too familiar with the habs lineup, but im sure that a large experianced scoring 2way top6 player that can play center or wing would be a large asset to this team. Antropov's knock is his ufa status, his skating flaws, and his injury risk. However i believe his low salary for this year, as well as his progression into being a powerplay threat and a solid 2way powerfoward more then makes up for this risk.

Poni fills higgins top9 slot in the ranks and actually helps add some size and experiance to the forward ranks and poni is signed to a reasonable and longer term contract. Also im being conservative in saying hes a top9 winger, he really could play top6 but montreals youth should get that slot.

Cujo your right, he wouldnt replace halak's skill. However price could definately benefit from the additional confidence being the teams selected #1, as well as a number of people have pointed out cujo was a great goaltender back in the day, and im sure if price struggles cujo could easily step in the mean time, and wouldnt need to worry about halak stealing the thunder from goldenboy and maybe setting up a goaltending controversy.

Higgins is a good prospect that is stifled in the montreal system, Toronto could give him time and a position for him to improve, and would probobly take antropovs space and salary in the toronto system.

Halak would take our backup slot, would provide injury protection for toskala, as well as from what ive seen he definately is a #1 candidate and would open up the OPTION of us to move toskala if an offer comes around, Pogge really hasnt shown in the past year that hes a true #1 prospect, and im sure we could use the additional depth and seasoning in the AHL for pogge if needed.

like i said, i think that this trade based on the opinions could use an additonal b or less prospect and possibly a 2nd or a 3rd round pick.

Making the overall trade

Antropov, Poni, Cujo, <B+ prospect, and a 2nd round pick.

Higgins, Halak

Yes, i am aware that we dont have a 2nd round pick. I would anticipate a small trade such as white for a 2nd from atl.

I continue to appreciate additional input, and i dont think that this is a horrible horrible trade for either side.

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08-25-2008, 12:51 AM
  #30
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Antropov sounds pretty under rated on these boards. If Sundin doesn't stay he is their top scorer and can produce 70 points given the right linemates. I strongly disagree with anyone that says he isn't worth prying out of Toronto.

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08-25-2008, 12:55 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by brownking View Post
So they trade one of their best goalies in history that(top 5 maybe top 3) that they just re-signed and trade him? Yeah,no

But Toronto would win this deal Habs say no Can get more for Halak in a few years
It doesn't matter if Cujo was good almost a decade ago. He isn't even a good backup anymore.

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08-25-2008, 01:08 AM
  #32
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So they trade one of their best goalies in history that(top 5 maybe top 3) that they just re-signed and trade him? Yeah,no

But Toronto would win this deal Habs say no Can get more for Halak in a few years
You do know that we are now in the year 2008 don't you?

I've always been a big fan of Cujo's. But even with his great past, no matter how you look at it. He's only a backup goalie now at best.

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08-25-2008, 07:47 AM
  #33
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I would certainly want to remove the goaltending angle from any such proposals at the very least. I don't see why Toronto needs the young goalie nor Montreal the old goalie, if there was going to be any balancing of assets coming in the proposal, it wouldn't be in net.

That said, I also agree that the Habs don't need Ponikarovsky or Antropov. Sometimes I think they're actually both a bit underrated/overcriticised, but nevertheless the Habs are full up with their middle-lineup players, what we need is either at the higher end or failing that maybe somebody really defensively-oriented. So I don't see any incentive to try to trade for them, particularly not at the expense of Higgins. Let the Leafs angle for their trade deadline haul in dealing those guys, now is not the time.

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Old
08-25-2008, 09:06 AM
  #34
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No reason for the Leafs to make this trade. We don't need a young goalie right now, and if for any reason we did, we have Pogge.

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Old
08-25-2008, 12:39 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Garo View Post
You're not.

To be honest though, I'd probably make that trade... but I would have a uneasy feeling about it and I don't know why.
That uneasy feeling would be you bending over and getting it real good from Fletcher.

That's just awful. Cujo isn't worth anything until the trade deadline. Poni and Antro get included into every trade scenario by Leaf fans. Sort of Ryder and Halak last year for the Habs. Where would both fit into the Habs lineup. One on the thrid line, one on the fourth. Their stats are inflated because they played with Mats. One of them would play with Chipchura and the other with Lapierre the way things look now. See if either get 30 points that way. Or 30 points combined.

Halak is the backup, not a washed up former star who never won anything in the playoffs. Besides, with his little experience, he has almost no trade value. Let's build that up first before we kick him out of town.

Higgins, fits on a Hab team as either an offensive or defensive player. He had a career year with 27 goals last year in an off year. He said he could get 40. I certainly think he can get 30. 35 isn't out of the question and 40 is still possible.

I also question the validity of the statements made that Antropov is the best player in the deal. Only 4 points more than Higgins and 4 years older and a history of knee problems. Neither he or Poni fit in to a Hab team speed concept unless they are skating downhill.

A big no thanks from this Hab fan.

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Old
08-25-2008, 01:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by fras123 View Post
Antropov sounds pretty under rated on these boards. If Sundin doesn't stay he is their top scorer and can produce 70 points given the right linemates. I strongly disagree with anyone that says he isn't worth prying out of Toronto.

I'm a habs fan so I obviously see Toronto play more than just 8 times a season and I would absolutely **** my pants if Nick Antropov came over. Higgins is one of my top 5 habs but I Would do this deal:

Higgins + 4th for Antropov

Would that be enough?

Any habs fan that wouldnt trade Higgins for Antropov straight up is lying to himself. He's be perfect for us, 6'6 230 lbs center!!! Too bad he shoots left.

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Old
08-25-2008, 02:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
I'm a habs fan so I obviously see Toronto play more than just 8 times a season and I would absolutely **** my pants if Nick Antropov came over. Higgins is one of my top 5 habs but I Would do this deal:

Higgins + 4th for Antropov

Would that be enough?

Any habs fan that wouldnt trade Higgins for Antropov straight up is lying to himself. He's be perfect for us, 6'6 230 lbs center!!! Too bad he shoots left.
Well I never thought anyone could make Mad Mike Milbury look bad in trades, I was wrong.

1999-00 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 66 12 18 30 41
2000-01 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 52 6 11 17 30
2001-02 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 11 1 1 2 4
2002-03 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 72 16 29 45 124
2003-04 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 62 13 18 31 62
2005-06 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 57 12 19 31 56
2006-07 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 54 18 15 33 44
2007-08 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 72 26 30 56 92
NHL Totals 446 104 141 245 453

That's not too bad, but it certainly isn't worth Higgins, let alone adding a 4th. Plus this guy is UFA next year and he has a history of knee problems. It takes him a week to get from one end of the ice to the other. He's big, big deal. He doesn't fit.

Keep in mind, his stats are inflated because he played with Sundin. I wouldn't give more than a Laperiere for him. Young guy who will be around for a few years vs someone who'll be gone at the end of the season unless you overpay.

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Any habs fan that wouldnt trade Higgins for Antropov straight up is lying to himself.
Liar!


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Old
08-25-2008, 03:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Well I never thought anyone could make Mad Mike Milbury look bad in trades, I was wrong.

1999-00 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 66 12 18 30 41
2000-01 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 52 6 11 17 30
2001-02 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 11 1 1 2 4
2002-03 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 72 16 29 45 124
2003-04 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 62 13 18 31 62
2005-06 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 57 12 19 31 56
2006-07 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 54 18 15 33 44
2007-08 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 72 26 30 56 92
NHL Totals 446 104 141 245 453

That's not too bad, but it certainly isn't worth Higgins, let alone adding a 4th. Plus this guy is UFA next year and he has a history of knee problems. It takes him a week to get from one end of the ice to the other. He's big, big deal. He doesn't fit.

Keep in mind, his stats are inflated because he played with Sundin. I wouldn't give more than a Laperiere for him. Young guy who will be around for a few years vs someone who'll be gone at the end of the season unless you overpay.
Lapierre would never, ever get you Antropov, not even adding a first (esp. one of ours).

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:49 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Liar!

Victim #1

You out of all people. I'll save this for furture blackmail purposes.

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Old
08-25-2008, 04:44 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Victim #1

You out of all people. I'll save this for furture blackmail purposes.
If I were you, I'd delete it, because in this case, you'll be the blackmailee not blackmailer.

And that makes 2 Hab fans for not trading Higgins for Antro versus 1 so far.

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Old
08-25-2008, 07:03 PM
  #42
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make that 3 to 1. Higgins has a higher upside and can skate with the habs. Antropov lumbering around would stick out worse than latendresse in MTL.

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08-25-2008, 07:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post

Any habs fan that wouldnt trade Higgins for Antropov straight up is lying to himself. He's be perfect for us, 6'6 230 lbs center!!! Too bad he shoots left.
Too bad he's worst than Grabovski at centre...

pass..

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08-25-2008, 07:45 PM
  #44
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Too bad he's worst than Grabovski at centre...

pass..
Antropov plays his best at centre, but Paul Maurice liked the idea of having Ponikarovsky - Sundin - Antropov together, a line @ 6'4'', 6'5'' and 6'6''. The Leafs could cycle, that's for sure, but they'd shoot from the worst angles.

It's too bad you like to make things up.

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Old
08-25-2008, 07:53 PM
  #45
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gainey would never ever trade higgins for anthropov straight up. ever.
and anyone who thinks otherwise has zero understanding of team building, chemistry and leadership

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08-25-2008, 07:56 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan99ss View Post
Based on what ive read in the responses, Is that most of the habs fans are absolutely against this trade, and most of the toronto ones are for or slightly against this trade.

I believe that this trade may be slightly skewed towards toronto, thus the final trade would probobly include a 2nd and a minor prospect as well.

Antropov would probably center the 2nd line behind koivu, and i wouldn't be suprised if they flanked him with some size and scoring.

Im not too familiar with the habs lineup, but im sure that a large experianced scoring 2way top6 player that can play center or wing would be a large asset to this team. Antropov's knock is his ufa status, his skating flaws, and his injury risk. However i believe his low salary for this year, as well as his progression into being a powerplay threat and a solid 2way powerfoward more then makes up for this risk.

Poni fills higgins top9 slot in the ranks and actually helps add some size and experiance to the forward ranks and poni is signed to a reasonable and longer term contract. Also im being conservative in saying hes a top9 winger, he really could play top6 but montreals youth should get that slot.

Cujo your right, he wouldnt replace halak's skill. However price could definately benefit from the additional confidence being the teams selected #1, as well as a number of people have pointed out cujo was a great goaltender back in the day, and im sure if price struggles cujo could easily step in the mean time, and wouldnt need to worry about halak stealing the thunder from goldenboy and maybe setting up a goaltending controversy.

Higgins is a good prospect that is stifled in the montreal system, Toronto could give him time and a position for him to improve, and would probobly take antropovs space and salary in the toronto system.

Halak would take our backup slot, would provide injury protection for toskala, as well as from what ive seen he definately is a #1 candidate and would open up the OPTION of us to move toskala if an offer comes around, Pogge really hasnt shown in the past year that hes a true #1 prospect, and im sure we could use the additional depth and seasoning in the AHL for pogge if needed.

like i said, i think that this trade based on the opinions could use an additonal b or less prospect and possibly a 2nd or a 3rd round pick.

Making the overall trade

Antropov, Poni, Cujo, <B+ prospect, and a 2nd round pick.

Higgins, Halak

Yes, i am aware that we dont have a 2nd round pick. I would anticipate a small trade such as white for a 2nd from atl.

I continue to appreciate additional input, and i dont think that this is a horrible horrible trade for either side.
what have you been smoking lately? clearly your 'i'm not too familiar with the habs lineup' speaks volumes about most of your analysis. higgins who wore the A in montreal at the ripe old tender age of 24 is a 'prospect'? the same Higgins who plays with our best playmaker in saku koivu and who's scored almost 100 NHL goals? who plays first or 2nd line minutes 99% of the time? on the best offensive team (2008) in the NHL, who scored 27 goals is not being used properly and is 'stifled' - and also still a prospect...and would somehow be used better in toronto playing with uh...who? grabovsky?



wow


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Old
08-25-2008, 08:32 PM
  #47
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make that 3 to 1. Higgins has a higher upside and can skate with the habs. Antropov lumbering around would stick out worse than latendresse in MTL.
Make it 4 to 1. the habs are built around speed. Where does a slow injury prone Antropov fit in. Leafs can keep Antropov and us Habs will keep our over-rated Higgins thank you.

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08-25-2008, 09:05 PM
  #48
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Higgins is a superior player to both Ponikarovsky and Antropov. On offense he has the same number of career goal as Ponikarovsky while being three year younger and playing over 100 games fewer. Antropov barely outproduced Higgins last year but if you look at him over his career he has been very inconsistent while Higgins has only gotten better each year he has played.

You take Higgins being a guy who can skate, you trust on a penalty kill and already is an assistant captain, he wins on intangibles/defense. Antropov is much larger but doesn't exactly have the reputation that makes people think twice before messing with him. The physical aspect of Antropov's games does not come close to making up for everything else.

Both of them for Higgins doesn't work either as Montreal is looking for upgrades in the superstar/impact department and these guys don't fit. If these guys don't bring the Leafs into the playoffs making up 1/3 of the top six why would they improve Montreal?

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08-25-2008, 09:13 PM
  #49
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Higgins is a superior player to both Ponikarovsky and Antropov. On offense he has the same number of career goal as Ponikarovsky while being three year younger and playing over 100 games fewer. Antropov barely outproduced Higgins last year but if you look at him over his career he has been very inconsistent while Higgins has only gotten better each year he has played.

You take Higgins being a guy who can skate, you trust on a penalty kill and already is an assistant captain, he wins on intangibles/defense. Antropov is much larger but doesn't exactly have the reputation that makes people think twice before messing with him. The physical aspect of Antropov's games does not come close to making up for everything else.

Both of them for Higgins doesn't work either as Montreal is looking for upgrades in the superstar/impact department and these guys don't fit. If these guys don't bring the Leafs into the playoffs making up 1/3 of the top six why would they improve Montreal?
Antropov is better than Higgins on defense. Antropov has a great two way game that is often underrated. Mind you Higgins is worth alot more than Antropov.


Last edited by SlowShot: 08-25-2008 at 09:37 PM.
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08-25-2008, 09:28 PM
  #50
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Antropov is better than Higgins of defense. Antropov has a great two way game that is often underrated. Mind you Higgins is worth alot more than Antropov.
Antropov also has the durability of a 70-year old woman.

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