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Patrick Kane Situation

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Old
08-24-2015, 09:02 AM
  #1
islescoop
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Patrick Kane Situation

Reading some speculation that Kane has played his last game for the Blackhawks. My question is this - if Mike Richards can have his contract thrown out for crossing the border with pain killers, imagine if the hawks rip up the MEGA contract of Kane if he's convicted of rape. I posted about a precedent being set with ripping up contracts so it will be interesting to see how that shakes out with the players union.

Really puts the hawks in an interesting situation. Who at this point would pick up that giant contract in a trade? Would you really rip it up and allow him to walk without compensation in a trade?

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08-24-2015, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islescoop View Post
Reading some speculation that Kane has played his last game for the Blackhawks. My question is this - if Mike Richards can have his contract thrown out for crossing the border with pain killers, imagine if the hawks rip up the MEGA contract of Kane if he's convicted of rape. I posted about a precedent being set with ripping up contracts so it will be interesting to see how that shakes out with the players union.

Really puts the hawks in an interesting situation. Who at this point would pick up that giant contract in a trade? Would you really rip it up and allow him to walk without compensation in a trade?
What has been said that makes you think the Blackhawks don't want him anymore?

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08-24-2015, 09:18 AM
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John Jaeckel , hawks blogger. "But what I am hearing consistently is that there is a very real possibility Kane has played his last game in a Hawk sweater, or if he does play in Chicago this season, it will not be for long."

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08-24-2015, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by islescoop View Post
John Jaeckel , hawks blogger. "But what I am hearing consistently is that there is a very real possibility Kane has played his last game in a Hawk sweater, or if he does play in Chicago this season, it will not be for long."
Link to this? Very interesting...

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08-24-2015, 09:33 AM
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islescoop
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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/John-...mors/128/70565

I know it's hockeybuzz so probably 2% chance of being true, but it's from a hawks guy and not from Eklund

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08-24-2015, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by islescoop View Post
Reading some speculation that Kane has played his last game for the Blackhawks. My question is this - if Mike Richards can have his contract thrown out for crossing the border with pain killers, imagine if the hawks rip up the MEGA contract of Kane if he's convicted of rape. I posted about a precedent being set with ripping up contracts so it will be interesting to see how that shakes out with the players union.

Really puts the hawks in an interesting situation. Who at this point would pick up that giant contract in a trade? Would you really rip it up and allow him to walk without compensation in a trade?
Your words. If he is convicted of rape it will be hard to play hockey for any team while behind bars.

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08-24-2015, 09:43 AM
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PK Cronin
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I'd say the only way he doesn't play for the Blackhawks is if he is convicted. If he's not convicted, they can't terminate his contract because he wouldn't have violated it (I'd assume). If he is convicted, he won't be playing anywhere I'd imagine.

I can't see the Blackhawks taking a gamble at terminating his contract, if he's found innocent, just to attempt to get out from under that contract. That would go to court and Kane will win.

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08-24-2015, 09:49 AM
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MatthewBarnabysTears
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islescoop View Post
Reading some speculation that Kane has played his last game for the Blackhawks. My question is this - if Mike Richards can have his contract thrown out for crossing the border with pain killers, imagine if the hawks rip up the MEGA contract of Kane if he's convicted of rape. I posted about a precedent being set with ripping up contracts so it will be interesting to see how that shakes out with the players union.

Really puts the hawks in an interesting situation. Who at this point would pick up that giant contract in a trade? Would you really rip it up and allow him to walk without compensation in a trade?
As a first matter, I don't think it's correct to say yet that Mike Richards' "can have his contract thrown out." There's currently an ongoing grievance procedure under the CBA, and it seems like a very fluid situation. It's a very dangerous precedent to allow teams to void a contract after the early years of a deal while originally getting a player to agree to a deal based on the offer of long-term security. If Kane was worth $10mm on an 8 year deal, imagine what he could have gotten on the short term?

Obviously, all this analysis can go out the window if he's found guilty, if he's found liable in a civil trial, or evidence comes out making his guilt otherwise more likely than not.

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08-24-2015, 10:00 AM
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Felix Unger
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Even if this blogger has sources, what possible reliability could we assign to the sources' own feelings? There's a lid on the investigation. From what I read the DA is very by the book. The defense attorney/Kane isn't talking. If this proceeds and goes to a grand jury, there's going to be standard gag on it until it decides whether or not to indict. If it *doesn't* go to a grand jury with a charge, who the heck knows what that would mean? There are so many possibilities.

OTOH, I believe that IF this case does go to a grand jury, Kane will be suspended with pay a la Voynov until it decides whether or not to indict. If they do indict, he's going to be off the ice for far longer. Who knows then whether or not it will be with pay, etc.

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08-24-2015, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islescoop View Post
Reading some speculation that Kane has played his last game for the Blackhawks. My question is this - if Mike Richards can have his contract thrown out for crossing the border with pain killers, imagine if the hawks rip up the MEGA contract of Kane if he's convicted of rape. I posted about a precedent being set with ripping up contracts so it will be interesting to see how that shakes out with the players union.

Really puts the hawks in an interesting situation. Who at this point would pick up that giant contract in a trade? Would you really rip it up and allow him to walk without compensation in a trade?
Is there some sort of morals clause in Kane's contract, that would void his deal?

I ask because I am wondering how they can just tear up his contract. Let's say he is convicted and does 2-3 yrs, then gets out and wants to play. Wouldn't the Hawks be back on the hook for whatever remains on his deal?

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08-24-2015, 11:15 AM
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I ask because I am wondering how they can just tear up his contract. Let's say he is convicted and does 2-3 yrs, then gets out and wants to play. Wouldn't the Hawks be back on the hook for whatever remains on his deal?
I'm no expert on how this works, but I'm thinking that being in jail for 3 years and not fulfilling his end of the contract would probably be grounds to terminate the contract.

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08-24-2015, 11:15 AM
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Felix Unger
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I ask because I am wondering how they can just tear up his contract. Let's say he is convicted and does 2-3 yrs, then gets out and wants to play. Wouldn't the Hawks be back on the hook for whatever remains on his deal?
There's a standard morals clause in all contracts. But one would have to think that a felony sex crime conviction would be sufficient to void a contract.

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08-24-2015, 11:19 AM
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A lot of I am hearing and not at liberty to say... That writing is pretty bad and is just writing the next likely step based on Kane's non-professional career.

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08-24-2015, 11:27 AM
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There's a standard morals clause in all contracts. But one would have to think that a felony sex crime conviction would be sufficient to void a contract.
What a mess.

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08-24-2015, 12:50 PM
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Maybe we should wait until he's arrested before we start speculating on his conviction and subsequent incarceration.

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08-24-2015, 12:59 PM
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Even if this blogger has sources, what possible reliability could we assign to the sources' own feelings? There's a lid on the investigation. From what I read the DA is very by the book.
If they had a strong case, and the DA was "by the book"; Kane would be arrested and arraigned. It is unprecedented for a person to be out this long on a violent B felony, which is what this would be. That carries a determine sentence between 5 and 25 years.

If he is indicted on the attempt, that's a C-violent which carries 3.5-15 determinate.

He has not yet been indicted, nor arrested. The fact that there is a "lid" on the investigation indicates substantial "problems" with the case from the DA's perspective. DA's and cops are not known for "keeping a lid" when they have you dead to rights. And, as noted in numerous places, people are claiming "law enforcement" sources for various bits of information such as Kane needing to "turn himself in", which is ludicrous now in hindsight from when it was first reported.

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The defense attorney/Kane isn't talking.
That's just good strategy.

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If this proceeds and goes to a grand jury, there's going to be standard gag on it until it decides whether or not to indict. If it *doesn't* go to a grand jury with a charge, who the heck knows what that would mean? There are so many possibilities.
In New York, you are entitled to indictment by grand jury. If it does not go to a grand jury with a charge we know EXACTLY what will happen (after arrest, if such arrest ever occurs). The case would be dismissed after 180 days of pre-trial delay pursuant to Criminal Procedure Law 30.30.

If the case goes before a grand jury and the grand jury refuses to indict, the case will be dismissed.

The only other option (beyond the grand jury returning a true bill) would be for Kane to waive prosecution by indictment; and I see no reason whatsoever for that to happen.

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OTOH, I believe that IF this case does go to a grand jury, Kane will be suspended with pay a la Voynov until it decides whether or not to indict. If they do indict, he's going to be off the ice for far longer. Who knows then whether or not it will be with pay, etc.
I would describe that as a bit of an abrogation of justice, all things considered; but I'm a defense attorney as we all know. It is often said that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich (if he wants to) because it is so easy to return an indictment. It is a rare day that a prosecutor fails to get a true bill if he/she wants to (absent the defendant testifying).

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08-24-2015, 01:09 PM
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MatthewBarnabysTears
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The defense attorney/Kane isn't talking.
If only. Pro-tip, this is poor lawyering:

http://deadspin.com/patrick-kanes-la...ook-1724570340

It's supposed to be the client, not the lawyer, who needs to be reminded not to argue with random jackasses on facebook. Wonder where Kane found this joker.

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08-24-2015, 01:13 PM
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If only. Pro-tip, this is poor lawyering:

http://deadspin.com/patrick-kanes-la...ook-1724570340

It's supposed to be the client, not the lawyer, who needs to be reminded not to argue with random jackasses on facebook. Wonder where Kane found this joker.
I'm still willing to make the trip up. Let him know if you see him.

I believe his lawyer also does zoning and land-use law. Exactly what you need when you're being accused of forcible rape - a guy who handles zoning.

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08-24-2015, 01:26 PM
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If they had a strong case, and the DA was "by the book"; Kane would be arrested and arraigned. It is unprecedented for a person to be out this long on a violent B felony, which is what this would be. That carries a determine sentence between 5 and 25 years.
Yeah, well, it's usually not the case that someone being investigated for a class B felony has a $10 million dollar guaranteed contract.

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08-24-2015, 01:32 PM
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Yeah, well, it's usually not the case that someone being investigated for a class B felony has a $10 million dollar guaranteed contract.
What does that have to do with the fact that he's not been arrested?

Based on my experience, I find it quite telling that he's not yet been arrested.

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08-24-2015, 01:33 PM
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If you recall DSK, he was accused on 5/14 and indicted by 5/18.

Doesn't matter who you are, if they've got probable cause; you're getting jammed up.

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08-24-2015, 01:38 PM
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Felix Unger
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What does that have to do with the fact that he's not been arrested?
Unlimited resources? No flight risk? High profile?

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Based on my experience, I find it quite telling that he's not yet been arrested.
I think I agree with you for the most part - the case is probably going to come down to testimony. If that's what you mean with there being something 'wrong' with the case.

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08-24-2015, 01:51 PM
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Unlimited resources? No flight risk? High profile?
I mean, DSK had unlimited resources. What reason is there not to arrest him?

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I think I agree with you for the most part - the case is probably going to come down to testimony. If that's what you mean with there being something 'wrong' with the case.
No, I don't at all think it will come down to "testimony". I don't think we'll ever see a criminal trial. I don't think we'll ever see an indictment. I think we possibly won't even see an arrest.

In that event the case will come down to nothing at all.

I can see no reason why he hasn't been arrested if they've got him dead to rights. And when a woman claims forcible rape, you're in a heap of trouble when they run that rape kit and you match up.

And here's the deal: Even if you don't match up, they've got you anyway if there is vaginal tearing/bruising. You're getting arrested, I don't care who you are.

This is not standard procedure for a rape case one bit. Not even close. And when things don't go standard procedure, but the cops are trying all kinds of tiny leak nonsense; that means they have a problem with their case.

Of course, I don't know how they do things in Erie County and all cases are unique as well

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08-24-2015, 01:59 PM
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If a Player was ever found guilty of rape, I can't see that player finding another team to take him.

Not saying Kane is guilty or innocent.

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08-24-2015, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BroadwayJay View Post

I can see no reason why he hasn't been arrested if they've got him dead to rights. And when a woman claims forcible rape, you're in a heap of trouble when they run that rape kit and you match up.

And here's the deal: Even if you don't match up, they've got you anyway if there is vaginal tearing/bruising. You're getting arrested, I don't care who you are.

This is not standard procedure for a rape case one bit. Not even close. And when things don't go standard procedure, but the cops are trying all kinds of tiny leak nonsense; that means they have a problem with their case.

Of course, I don't know how they do things in Erie County and all cases are unique as well
This is mostly my opinion just looking at it from a logical perspective. Granted I will defer to you on all topics of the law Jay, but even just logically speaking you're right.

Why the hold up, the delay unless there was something not right with the case. Either there is confusion, conflicting evidence/witness reports or just plain stupidity on the DA's part for not going ahead with the minimum of an arrest.

Its an argument I have with people all the time especially in today's world of the 24 hour news cycle. Person A accuses Person B of X. Media treats X as evidence and popular opinion immediately treats allegations as facts. This is with anything in the world but if you ever want to prove something to me, you better show me something more than just he said she said. Or in the case of Tom Brady, more probable than not that he might have known about some footballs being deflated.

Show me proof, then feel free to tar and feather Pat Kane. Until then, he a person who is innocent until proven guilty, regardless of how bad the alleged crime is.

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