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Toronto-San Jose

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Old
08-26-2008, 01:55 AM
  #1
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Toronto-San Jose

Toronto
Antropov
Coliacovo
McCabe

SanJose
Milan michalek *spelling sorry*
Rob Blake

Reasonings:
Antropov provides some size, top6 depth, and scoring, pp, and potentially the holmstrom to cheechoo and thorton potentially.
McCabe has more of an offensive upside, fits in to thier offensive system, and is only slightly more overpaid the blake, younger, and signed longer term which is actually an asset in this situation.
Coaliacovo provides some top4 defensive young player with some injury risk to help balance out michalek also substitutable with white/kronwall.

Rob Blake would fit right into our scheme of being a defensive end, rough and strong defensive end, and would be only one year of sucking a bad contract, potentially could be moved at the deadline, as well as a buyout but i dont think that being likely.
Milan michalek is the target of this trade, He is a top6 winger prospect, big strong, can score, and would be a great asset on a young up and coming leaf team we hope is coming and would look great next to steen and kulemin.

Let me know what you guys think.

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Old
08-26-2008, 02:03 AM
  #2
The Puck
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Absolutely no reason for San Jose to do this. Michalek is locked up long-term to a very reasonable contract and he keeps getting better and better.

Blake is clearly set on staying in California.

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Old
08-26-2008, 02:13 AM
  #3
Rickety Cricket
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Its never a good idea to sign a UFA then ship them out before they ever play a game, also Blake has a NTC

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Old
08-26-2008, 03:28 AM
  #4
JesterOnly
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The player that this trade proposal is centered around is Milan Michalek. The team that Michalek is on is the Sharks. The Sharks want to win NOW. How does trading an already high quality first line winger with experience and chemistry help them win now? This wouldn't even make sense if the Sharks were rebuilding as Michalek would be the young piece to center development around.

Makes no sense for the Sharks. None.

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Old
08-26-2008, 03:30 AM
  #5
Karl with a C
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No sense for the Sharks

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Old
08-26-2008, 03:36 AM
  #6
matt trick
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In terms of value this is far off.

Michalek alone>>>Antorpov, McCabe, and Cola, because he is locked up for 6 years at a reasonable rate right now, and is only going to get better. McCabe has little value and Cola has even less. Antropov is underrated, but Michalek is so much more valuable than Antorpov due to the length of his contract and age.

Than we are adding in an overpaid top 4 d-man, who is a elite PP trigger man (although not as good as McCabe).

That doesn't take into consideration that Michalek is our only top 6 LW to begin with (Marleau has been shifted to LW from center, and Clowe is an elite 3rd liner not a top 6 guy). Nor does it take into consideration than ROb Blake was signed as a mentor for Vlasic and Ehrhoff, and adds a cup ring.

Also, it should be noted that when you put up 66 and 56 points in your second and third year in the nhl, while providing excellent defense, you are no longer a prospect. I bet he puts up 65 to 70 points this year and cements himself in the top 10-15 LWs in the league.


Last edited by matt trick: 08-26-2008 at 03:50 AM.
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Old
08-26-2008, 04:34 AM
  #7
JesterOnly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
In terms of value this is far off.

Michalek alone>>>Antorpov, McCabe, and Cola, because he is locked up for 6 years at a reasonable rate right now, and is only going to get better. McCabe has little value and Cola has even less. Antropov is underrated, but Michalek is so much more valuable than Antorpov due to the length of his contract and age.

Than we are adding in an overpaid top 4 d-man, who is a elite PP trigger man (although not as good as McCabe).

That doesn't take into consideration that Michalek is our only top 6 LW to begin with (Marleau has been shifted to LW from center, and Clowe is an elite 3rd liner not a top 6 guy). Nor does it take into consideration than ROb Blake was signed as a mentor for Vlasic and Ehrhoff, and adds a cup ring.

Also, it should be noted that when you put up 66 and 56 points in your second and third year in the nhl, while providing excellent defense, you are no longer a prospect. I bet he puts up 65 to 70 points this year and cements himself in the top 10-15 LWs in the league.
Calm down there. Michalek alone is not worth McCabe, Antropov, and Coliacovo. Let's not over-inflate the value of a player. Now, Michalek's value to the Sharks is worth more than McCabe, Antropov, and Coliacovo would make more sense for some of the reasons that you stated above. McCabe's only real value hindrance is his cap hit. He's a good player that would be sought after if it were not for that. I think the opposite of you when it comes to Antropov's value (or rated-ness). Antropov has had one good season at the end of a string of mediocre seasons riddled with injuries. And Michalek's cap value isn't exactly bargain for his recent production - the Sharks are really banking on him getting better and better. And, while I do see him getting better, remember that last season we were saying that he scored 66 points the year before so he's only going to score more the next. I'm not banking on anything until he proves it.

[cut, redundant]

I also think that your outlook on Clowe is nearsighted if not wholly without reason. Clowe lined up at the second line wing to start the year and was playing well enough to warrant his inclusion in the top 6 if it were not for his injury. As he has proven over the last two years, he is very capable of handling his own offensively in the top 6 role while still playing his gritty and rough kind of game. While he is in the mold of a third line winger, he brings more to the table than just checking ability. And while I think that a line of Clowe-Mitchell-Grier would annoy and shut down opponent's top lines, I think it would be under-utilization of Clowe's abilities. I still firmly believe (and have held the opinion for well over a year) that Clowe would work better on Thornton's line than Michalek, and that Michalek would work better playing with Marleau. The big problem with that is that Clowe has shifted his game from front of the net grinder to puck handler, and no matter what I would rather have Thornton handling the puck over Clowe (although it may force Thornton to use that good shot of his more often). If Clowe went back to playing a Holmstrom-esque role as he did two years ago, a line of Clowe-Thornton-Cheechoo would be very productive. And on the back end Michalek is much more of a finesse playmaker to compliment Marleau and potentially Pavelski. Marleau has seemed to play better when paired with Michalek.


Last edited by JesterOnly: 08-26-2008 at 04:45 AM.
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Old
08-26-2008, 07:29 AM
  #8
mydnyte
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I thought the CBA doesnt allow a team to trade a newly signed UFA for 1 year?

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08-26-2008, 10:57 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
I thought the CBA doesnt allow a team to trade a newly signed UFA for 1 year?
That can't be right, otherwise, why would Fletcher have given Hagman a NTC for only the first year of his contract?

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Old
08-26-2008, 12:33 PM
  #10
Moses Doughty
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San Jose gets fleeced, I say yes to the deal

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Old
08-26-2008, 02:08 PM
  #11
Hold the Pickles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
I thought the CBA doesnt allow a team to trade a newly signed UFA for 1 year?
I think that applies for players claimed on waivers.

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Old
08-26-2008, 02:17 PM
  #12
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San Jose passes on this one. They signed Blake to have a better shot at the cup and for veteran leadership on the blueline. McCabe is a downgrade from Blake and Antropov and Coliacovo won't help the run for the cup.

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Old
08-26-2008, 03:11 PM
  #13
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I think as soon as Bryan McCabe is mentioned, Doug Wilson would hang up the phone. I don't think he has any interest in him. Maybe Pavel Kubina if you use the trade deadline rumor as the reference but not McCabe.

We don't really need Antropov or Colaiacovo although they would be nice depth additions. However, the Sharks don't need them and definitely not at the cost of Milan Michalek and Rob Blake. The only way that a deal like this would be considered is if Tomas Kaberle is involved and not Bryan McCabe.

Besides, the Sharks won't be trading Rob Blake weeks after signing him.

A counter would have to be something like Milan Michalek and Kyle McLaren for Tomas Kaberle and Nik Antropov. I'm not sold that that would be workable for both teams because there is a lot of value in Kaberle and people may not feel Michalek would be enough for him. Maybe draft picks have to be thrown around but those would be the players involved if Michalek is in there.

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Old
08-26-2008, 04:26 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I think as soon as Bryan McCabe is mentioned, Doug Wilson would hang up the phone. I don't think he has any interest in him. Maybe Pavel Kubina if you use the trade deadline rumor as the reference but not McCabe.

We don't really need Antropov or Colaiacovo although they would be nice depth additions. However, the Sharks don't need them and definitely not at the cost of Milan Michalek and Rob Blake. The only way that a deal like this would be considered is if Tomas Kaberle is involved and not Bryan McCabe.

Besides, the Sharks won't be trading Rob Blake weeks after signing him.

A counter would have to be something like Milan Michalek and Kyle McLaren for Tomas Kaberle and Nik Antropov. I'm not sold that that would be workable for both teams because there is a lot of value in Kaberle and people may not feel Michalek would be enough for him. Maybe draft picks have to be thrown around but those would be the players involved if Michalek is in there.

First off i don't think that the leafs would trade Kabs alone for Milan Michalek and Kyle McLaren let alone throw in Nik Antropov.
Michalek is a pretty good player but not near the worth of Kabs . McLaren the leafs don't want or need.

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Old
08-26-2008, 04:35 PM
  #15
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Are these proposals ever going to end?

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Old
08-26-2008, 04:50 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper View Post
First off i don't think that the leafs would trade Kabs alone for Milan Michalek and Kyle McLaren let alone throw in Nik Antropov.
Michalek is a pretty good player but not near the worth of Kabs . McLaren the leafs don't want or need.
Did you read the 2nd sentance in Pinkfloyds post?

Just Curious

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Old
08-26-2008, 05:09 PM
  #17
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i think the Sharks' fans would value Michalek more than those three combined.

Michalek is signed long term and is in the future plans, Coliacovo is constantly injured, i doubt he has any value until he actually plays out a full season without any injuries. McCabe would only make their cap problems worse because of the 3 years left on his deal. Blake is their short term with his 5 million bucks, and i'd rather have him for one year than McCabe for 3. Sharks already have Thornton and Marleau, why would they need Antropov? They really have no need for him on the wings either.

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Old
08-26-2008, 08:59 PM
  #18
Pinkfloyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper View Post
First off i don't think that the leafs would trade Kabs alone for Milan Michalek and Kyle McLaren let alone throw in Nik Antropov.
Michalek is a pretty good player but not near the worth of Kabs . McLaren the leafs don't want or need.
Maybe...maybe not. If you're going to trade Kaberle for someone, wouldn't it be for an already high quality 23 year old two-way top line winger? You're not going to get Milan Michalek on the Leafs by returning Bryan McCabe, a 2nd line player, and an injury case like Colaiacovo. Sharks don't need any of that.

And if you're going to ask a great team like the Sharks to open up a big hole in their lineup, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're not going to take spare parts in return. He's not the top line left winger on a great team at 23 for no reason.

Like I said, there may be some other additions to it but there's no way the Leafs will get Milan Michalek w/o returning Tomas Kaberle and a left winger to replace Michalek.

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Old
08-27-2008, 04:20 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Maybe...maybe not. If you're going to trade Kaberle for someone, wouldn't it be for an already high quality 23 year old two-way top line winger? You're not going to get Milan Michalek on the Leafs by returning Bryan McCabe, a 2nd line player, and an injury case like Colaiacovo. Sharks don't need any of that.


And if you're going to ask a great team like the Sharks to open up a big hole in their lineup, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're not going to take spare parts in return. He's not the top line left winger on a great team at 23 for no reason.

Like I said, there may be some other additions to it but there's no way the Leafs will get Milan Michalek w/o returning Tomas Kaberle and a left winger to replace Michalek.
I would like to start by saying that i would think to most fans that are not S.J. fans Bryan McCabe, Antropov and Colaiacovo together are well worth Michalek value wise.i do understand the Sharks maybe not wanting to do this trade because it does leave a small hole in their lineup.[replacing Michalek]
On your last para-If thats so than there is no chance that the Sharks ever land Kabs because if the leafs have to give up Kabs and a left winger to replace Michalek you better be ready to add Vlasic + on top of Michalek.


Last edited by mytor4*: 08-27-2008 at 04:27 AM.
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Old
08-27-2008, 05:42 AM
  #20
Canuckle
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I don't know where to begin criticizing this deal.

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08-27-2008, 07:55 AM
  #21
mydnyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
I think that applies for players claimed on waivers.
yes, I think that is the correct one

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Old
08-27-2008, 11:57 AM
  #22
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McCabe has a NMC and San Jose wasn't on his list of places he would go.

/thread

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Old
08-27-2008, 01:55 PM
  #23
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Actually, the best reason this trade does not happen is ---- CAP SPACE and TAGGING--

The 2 players from SJ are $8Mil in cap , the 3 players from Tor equal either $7.7Mil or $9.7 M depending on whether SJ absorbs the $2mil signing bonus for McCabe as a cap hit which I believe is required by the CBA ..
SJ is already about $300K over the cap limit so this trade makes SJ $2.3 Mil over the cap.


Additionally , SJ signed Blake for only 1 year at $5M which means SJ can sign long term --Mitchell, Vlasic and Clowe ( Clowe as the year progresses) since Blake's cap space will be available next year to sign them to long term now or during the year.

Signing the three players wll take all of the $5Mil cap space made available by Blake..

Yes , ANtropov contract expires end of the yr but if SJ does not re-sign him where's the value in this deal for SJ?
At the end of 08/09 season this deal becomes McCabe and Coliacovo for Michalek

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Old
08-28-2008, 10:43 AM
  #24
Suddenly Zyuzin
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BTW, why do people get so ******** over "overpaying" Blake? is it better to not have Blake than to have Blake just so the owners could have more money in their pockets? How does it affect fans?

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Old
08-28-2008, 11:16 AM
  #25
dangler71
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Sharks say no way.

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