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Vancouver's dilemma

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Old
09-08-2008, 01:09 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemmersaJemmer View Post
Are you kidding me? Even if you think edmonton and chicago are fad teams how does that explain that the canucks are better? They have gotten worse in the offseason and finished worse then edmonton and chicago last year. Sorry to say but vancouver fans will probably be looking at a top ten pick if they don't make any significant changes this year
Haha, again, how is 88 > 88?

Another thing that no one's really taking into perspective, we didn't necessarily lose Morrison and Naslund, Canucks management chose to let them go. Considering the price and our cap room we could've retained them, but it was a calculated decision not too.

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09-19-2008, 04:34 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by HurtsDonut View Post
That's hilarious that you think we got worse LMAO

being severly injured last year didn't help us

and we picked up better players you just don't know what your talking about.

Do you honestly think Edmonton was healthy last year? Pisani, Moreau, Horcoff, Souray and Staios all injured at the same time. Here's why Oilers fans are optimistic, the last 20 games the kids took on more minutes when the vets were out with injury and yes they won lots of those contests in ot, the shootout et al, but you're lying to yourself if you don't think a 19 yo Gagner a 21 yo Cogliano and a 23 yo Nilsson with a year behind them aren't going to get better. A healthy Edmonton will kick the living bejesus out of Vancouver hands down.

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09-19-2008, 05:01 PM
  #128
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Bottom line is this, if any one wants to pay Luongo $10M... go for it. I think it's stupid to pay $10M for Luongo when we have Schnieder that can become our #1 in a year or 2.

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09-19-2008, 06:30 PM
  #129
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Vancouver dont have good prospects in the organisation( future 70+ points or #1 dmen)
They lack deepnest up front, an injurie to Demitra or one of the Sedin and they are in trouble.

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09-19-2008, 06:35 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Vancouver dont have good prospects in the organisation( future 70+ points or #1 dmen)
Grabner 30-35 goals 70+pts, Hodgson 80+ points isn't unrealistic at ALL. Edler isn't a prospect anymore, but he's a future #1.

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09-19-2008, 06:42 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Grabner 30-35 goals 70+pts, Hodgson 80+ points isn't unrealistic at ALL. Edler isn't a prospect anymore, but he's a future #1.
Grabner will be at best 20 goals 10 assists
Hodgson...we`ll see what he does this year
Edler #1, maybe. But again, Not a legitimate #1 playing in Vanvouver

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09-19-2008, 06:50 PM
  #132
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the canucks need 1st rounders and prospects bigtime. Despite what luongo thinks this team is rebuilding.

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09-19-2008, 06:54 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Vancouver dont have good prospects in the organisation( future 70+ points or #1 dmen)
They lack deepnest up front, an injurie to Demitra or one of the Sedin and they are in trouble.
ummm what does this have to do with the topic?

oh right random cheap shots at Vancouver, I get it.


the topic was about how are the Canucks down the road gonna lock up Sedins Ohlund and Luongo.

you reply by saying, We dont have any good prospects.

right right.

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09-19-2008, 06:56 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Vancouver dont have good prospects in the organisation( future 70+ points or #1 dmen)
They lack deepnest up front, an injurie to Demitra or one of the Sedin and they are in trouble.
Wow, are you a genius. you take the top 3 scorers away from any team, and that team will be in trouble. Including your team dude.

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09-19-2008, 06:58 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
ummm what does this have to do with the topic?

oh right random cheap shots at Vancouver, I get it.


the topic was about how are the Canucks down the road gonna lock up Sedins Ohlund and Luongo.

you reply by saying, We dont have any good prospects.

right right.
Vancouver will have plenty of cap space to sign whoever they want.
Will players want to play for Vigneault and Gillis.

I am a canucks fan by the way!!!

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09-19-2008, 06:59 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
Wow, are you a genius. you take the top 3 scorers away from any team, and that team will be in trouble. Including your team dude.
Have i mention the 3 at the same time???
Dont put words in my mouth!

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09-19-2008, 07:01 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Grabner will be at best 20 goals 10 assists
Hodgson...we`ll see what he does this year
Edler #1, maybe. But again, Not a legitimate #1 playing in Vanvouver
Grabner 20-10-30? Based on what? When have you seen him play? I've seen him play in person in the last week twice, and watched a game of him against the Flames prospects. What are you basing your expectations of him off?

Hodgson - we'll see what he does this year? He probably won't play more than 9 games, he's 18 years old. Scouts say he has all the skills of Stamkos without the acceleration, and he's been working on it. Also watched him play twice in person and twice at the prospect tournament - he was +5 with 5 points in 2 games against prospects who were unanimously older than him with AHL and even a taste of NHL action.

Edler could be a #1, but he won't be playing in Vancouver? The Canucks are now spending more on player development than any other team in the league. Not sure if you noticed, but our core of Ohlund/Salo/Mitchell all have 7+ years on Edler - one day he WILL be the #1 if he's not traded.

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09-19-2008, 07:11 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Chayos View Post
Well this year is a make or break year for the Canucks. They have Ohlund, and both Sedins becoming UFA's at the end of the season and Luongo will be going into his last year of his contract next season. The market price for the Sedins will likely be in the $6.0-7.0 million per year range each and Ohlund is likely worth in the $5-6 million per year. They also have to keep space for Luongo who will likely cost somewhere in the $7-8 million dollar range.

that breaks down to $24-28 million for just 4 players.

The Canucks have a chance to be a playoff team( smaller than some would think imo), but come trade deadline time if they are not in the running I would say they will need to look at trading either the Sedins or Ohlund. I think they may also possibley move Ohlund for the scoring forward they need to get rid of this issue. Either way it look likely that there are a few top end players on the Vancounver roster that will be available this year.

My suggestion would be to move both Sedins and Ohlund to contenders at the tade deadline for a wealth of prospects and picks and make the run for Tavares or Hedman.

My question to you is what would your team offer for the rights of Ohlund or the Sedins now or at the trade deadline?
Sedins are willing to sign a pay cut to stay in Vancouver. They are NOT looking at 6 7 million dollar range. reported earlier, was they were looking at 5.5 million. Recently, they had a meeting with Gillis, and its reported they want 5 million for 4 years minimum.

crap right now is 56 milllion. Projected to go up to 61 million next year.

Sedins, Current Salary, 3.6 Million.
Ohlunds current Salary, 3.5 million.

Sedins projected new contract amount. lets say 5.5. a little higher then their asking price of 5 million.

Ohlund, lets say, 5 million, cause Vancouver is good at resigning their own players to stay in the team at a reduced market amount. I personally dont think, it be that high.

Sedins contract increased by 2 million, Ohlunds by 1.5 million. Canucks need to invest 3.5 million extra into resigning these 3 players by next summer.

Cap goes up by 5 million. EVEN IF WE ARE AT THE CAP RIGHT NOW, like RIGHT NOW, we can sign these 3 easily without losing anyone on our current roster and still have around 2 million dollars in wiggle room.

Luongo.

His contract expires in 2 seasons. Lets say, by the end of the 2010 season, we are at the limit, again, lets say, the cap goes up by 4 million, unless we need 10 million to resign Luongo, like he wont be asking for that much more.

Canucks are in position, thanks to the cap moving up every year, to sign Sedins Ohlund and Luongo to long term deals.

If Luongo decides he want to jet, Canucks will trade him. He be 31 by time his contract ends, and im willing to see what teams are willing to offer for a top2 goalie in his prime.

Canucks are fine.

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09-19-2008, 07:11 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Grabner 20-10-30? Based on what? When have you seen him play? I've seen him play in person in the last week twice, and watched a game of him against the Flames prospects. What are you basing your expectations of him off?

Hodgson - we'll see what he does this year? He probably won't play more than 9 games, he's 18 years old. Scouts say he has all the skills of Stamkos without the acceleration, and he's been working on it. Also watched him play twice in person and twice at the prospect tournament - he was +5 with 5 points in 2 games against prospects who were unanimously older than him with AHL and even a taste of NHL action.

Edler could be a #1, but he won't be playing in Vancouver? The Canucks are now spending more on player development than any other team in the league. Not sure if you noticed, but our core of Ohlund/Salo/Mitchell all have 7+ years on Edler - one day he WILL be the #1 if he's not traded.

Always fun talking hockey with canucks fan.
When the canucks had Cloutier in goal, Bertuzzi, Jovo and Naslund.
i have always said to my canucks fan friends.
Vancouver wont win a cup with
Cloutier in goal
Jovo as their #1 Dmen
Naslund as Captain.
They all said, blah blah blah,your a Habs fan...
Well...they never won the cup ans are now in rebuilding phase(somewhat of)

Vancouver are fine for now, but they have not a very dep organisation.
unless they trade guys like Ohlund or Salo for 1 or 2 young prospect.
They have no trade baits up front

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09-19-2008, 07:20 PM
  #140
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[QUOTE=AgentNaslund;15499626]crap right now is 56 milllion. Projected to go up to 61 million next year.

QUOTE]


Nothing is sure the cap will go up.
Some people are saying it could even go down

Look at the future situation on the D. not very bright

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09-19-2008, 07:21 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Grabner will be at best 20 goals 10 assists
Hodgson...we`ll see what he does this year
Edler #1, maybe. But again, Not a legitimate #1 playing in Vanvouver
Thanks Nostradamus.

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09-19-2008, 07:23 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
Sedins are willing to sign a pay cut to stay in Vancouver. They are NOT looking at 6 7 million dollar range. reported earlier, was they were looking at 5.5 million. Recently, they had a meeting with Gillis, and its reported they want 5 million for 4 years minimum.

crap right now is 56 milllion. Projected to go up to 61 million next year.

Sedins, Current Salary, 3.6 Million.
Ohlunds current Salary, 3.5 million.

Sedins projected new contract amount. lets say 5.5. a little higher then their asking price of 5 million.

Ohlund, lets say, 5 million, cause Vancouver is good at resigning their own players to stay in the team at a reduced market amount. I personally dont think, it be that high.

Sedins contract increased by 2 million, Ohlunds by 1.5 million. Canucks need to invest 3.5 million extra into resigning these 3 players by next summer.

Cap goes up by 5 million. EVEN IF WE ARE AT THE CAP RIGHT NOW, like RIGHT NOW, we can sign these 3 easily without losing anyone on our current roster and still have around 2 million dollars in wiggle room.

Luongo.

His contract expires in 2 seasons. Lets say, by the end of the 2010 season, we are at the limit, again, lets say, the cap goes up by 4 million, unless we need 10 million to resign Luongo, like he wont be asking for that much more.

Canucks are in position, thanks to the cap moving up every year, to sign Sedins Ohlund and Luongo to long term deals.

If Luongo decides he want to jet, Canucks will trade him. He be 31 by time his contract ends, and im willing to see what teams are willing to offer for a top2 goalie in his prime.

Canucks are fine.
Quote:
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Thanks Nostradamus.

Welcome!

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Old
09-19-2008, 07:33 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Well...they never won the cup ans are now in rebuilding phase(somewhat of)

Vancouver are fine for now, but they have not a very dep organisation.
unless they trade guys like Ohlund or Salo for 1 or 2 young prospect.
They have no trade baits up front
You said they're sort of rebuilding, and your next sentence is they're fine for now?

They have a solid 1st line.
They have one of the top checking lines in the league.
They have an above average 4th line.
They have a top-5 defense in the league.
They have a top-2 goalie in the league.

Ohlund, Mitchell, Salo - they all have 5 years of hockey left in them. Salo maybe 3-4, seeing as the injuries and he has a year or two on the others in terms of age. We have Edler, Bieksa, Krajicek who will be in their prime or just about to hit it, at that time. We have Rahimi (bottom pairing guy), Ellington (#4?), and Sauve (#3-4) in the system, and 3-4 years to draft few more defensemen with 1st or 2nd rounders. McIver could fill in for injuries, and $1mil aging defensemen who can play some NHL minutes are always available (like Miller/Weaver last year) should injuries be exceptionally harsh.

Aside from Demitra, Hordichuk, and Johnson, EVERY forward we have is 27 or younger. Seeing as it's not unreasonable to play until you're 37, that means:

Sedin, Sedin, Bernier, Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Hodgson, Grabner, Pettinger, Pyatt, and Wellwood have 10 years of hockey in them or more.

Is it a great group of forwards? No, right now it's definitely below average and even once some of the young players (Ray/Hod/Grab) have some more experience it might not be top-10... but there's a lot of flexibility and youth there.

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09-19-2008, 07:38 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
You said they're sort of rebuilding, and your next sentence is they're fine for now?

They have a solid 1st line.
They have one of the top checking lines in the league.
They have an above average 4th line.
They have a top-5 defense in the league.
They have a top-2 goalie in the league.

Ohlund, Mitchell, Salo - they all have 5 years of hockey left in them. Salo maybe 3-4, seeing as the injuries and he has a year or two on the others in terms of age. We have Edler, Bieksa, Krajicek who will be in their prime or just about to hit it, at that time. We have Rahimi (bottom pairing guy), Ellington (#4?), and Sauve (#3-4) in the system, and 3-4 years to draft few more defensemen with 1st or 2nd rounders. McIver could fill in for injuries, and $1mil aging defensemen who can play some NHL minutes are always available (like Miller/Weaver last year) should injuries be exceptionally harsh.

Aside from Demitra, Hordichuk, and Johnson, EVERY forward we have is 27 or younger. Seeing as it's not unreasonable to play until you're 37, that means:

Sedin, Sedin, Bernier, Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Hodgson, Grabner, Pettinger, Pyatt, and Wellwood have 10 years of hockey in them or more.

Is it a great group of forwards? No, right now it's definitely below average and even once some of the young players (Ray/Hod/Grab) have some more experience it might not be top-10... but there's a lot of flexibility and youth there.
I said they are somewhat rebuilding!!
can you read?

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09-19-2008, 07:43 PM
  #145
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Bieksa has one good season and he is suddently a top dmen?
I want Bieksa to give me 2 seasons in a row like the one he had 2 years ago and this without injuries.
Solid first line??
vancouver lost a 25-30 goals scorer in Naslund,I dont see anyone scoring 30 other then Sedin.
Top 5 defense...NO WAY!

I give you top 2 goalie and a good checking line.

I really think they got do draft better or steal in a transaction

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09-19-2008, 07:44 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
I said they are somewhat rebuilding!!
can you read?
How are they somewhat rebuilding?

Their forward CORE is the Sedins/Kesler, who are among the longest-serving Canucks.

Their best defensemen are Ohlund, who IS the longest-serving Canuck, Mitchell (who is a local boy and has no intention of leaving), and Salo (most likely to sign elsewhere at the end of his contract in three years). They ALL have no-trade clauses.

Luongo has been quoted as saying he likes the GM and the direction of the team, he thinks our defense is one of the best in the league, and he's JUST moved his family here (over the off-season). You can argue either way about Louie regarding an extension and nobody will be right so I won't bother.

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09-19-2008, 07:52 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
How are they somewhat rebuilding?

Their forward CORE is the Sedins/Kesler, who are among the longest-serving Canucks.

Their best defensemen are Ohlund, who IS the longest-serving Canuck, Mitchell (who is a local boy and has no intention of leaving), and Salo (most likely to sign elsewhere at the end of his contract in three years). They ALL have no-trade clauses.

Luongo has been quoted as saying he likes the GM and the direction of the team, he thinks our defense is one of the best in the league, and he's JUST moved his family here (over the off-season). You can argue either way about Louie regarding an extension and nobody will be right so I won't bother.
Your top 3 dmen are 31+
in 2-3 years it could be downhill for them.
you obviously have a problem when you give me only name like Sedin`s and Kesler.
Their is nothing wrong admiting your club is in the middle between choosing to make a run in the playoffs or trading some players for high draft pick or good prospects.

My habs sucked for years,we finally see the light and we will see it for years to come

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09-19-2008, 07:54 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Bieksa has one good season and he is suddently a top dmen?
I want Bieksa to give me 2 seasons in a row like the one he had 2 years ago and this without injuries.
Solid first line??
vancouver lost a 25-30 goals scorer in Naslund,I dont see anyone scoring 30 other then Sedin.
Top 5 defense...NO WAY!

I give you top 2 goalie and a good checking line.

I really think they got do draft better or steal in a transaction
Where did I mention Bieksa is a top dman? If Bieksa is our #3 or #4, I'll be happy. Physical, gritty, can shoot, can pass. Liable defensively, that's why we put him with Mitchell. Carry on.

Solid first line, yeah. They're both top-30 in scoring post-lockout, and they make ANY player with them instantly better.

They lost 25-30 goals in Naslund, and picked up 25-30 goals in Demitra (before last season, Demitra had never scored less than 20 in his career).

Nice argument about the top-5 defense. "NO WAY!" actually holds up in court - if you use that when someone accuses you of a crime, you'll always get away with it. They don't have a standout #1 like Calgary or Detroit, but in '06-'07 when the defense wasn't OBLITERATED by injuries, they were one of two teams in the league with 3 defensemen to have 10+ goals, and a total of 49 from defensemen.

To put that into context, last year:

Calgary: 39
Detroit: 45
Anaheim: 50
Montreal: 44

That same year, while scoring 49 goals, the Canucks had the #1 PK and were in the running for the Jennings trophy until the last few games. Bieksa, Ohlund, Salo, Mitchell, Krajicek are all returning, and Edler has significantly improved since playing 22 games that year.

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09-19-2008, 07:55 PM
  #149
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Luongo has a NTC as well, which might put a damper on any attempt to trade him should he not be willing to re-sign with the Canucks in his last year.

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09-19-2008, 07:55 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Your top 3 dmen are 31+
in 2-3 years it could be downhill for them.
you obviously have a problem when you give me only name like Sedin`s and Kesler.
I listed the ****ing core. Learn English before attempting to continue to tell me the Canucks are "somewhat" rebuilding

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