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Old
09-10-2008, 05:42 PM
  #26
Badger Bob
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Happened to check back without logging back. Since you're on my ignore list, your posts and tattoo pics normallly wouldn't appear my screen. Anyway, that was but one thread on Chucko. It took a good bit of time just to search back even that far. Granted, it did stick out because of the threat title. Chucko's name was dropped in many threads after he was drafted. If you want to spend hours seeking out more, be my guest. You won't find much in the way of skepticism from the gallery on Chucko & Pelech (except by DFF) until much more recently.

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09-10-2008, 09:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by flamesfan12 View Post
It's asset management as far as I am concerned. I see Boyd and Zajac both as 2nd liners. If Chucko and Prust can become the 3rd and 4th liners then we get 3 nhlers to 1. Zajac has shown more for sure, but I really feel Boyd can be just as good.
yeah good deal three mutts instead of one purebred

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09-10-2008, 11:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
yeah....i am sure you would trade a Cadillac for a Ford Tempo and two Pinto....

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yeah good deal three mutts instead of one purebred
How many times have you two seen Zajac play? Where do you see him in his prime? Where do you see Boyd?

I know your probably just going for the dramatic effect with your analogies, but you are either overrating Zajac or underrating Boyd.

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09-11-2008, 02:19 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post

As Jiri would say, what a load of bunk.
Boy I didn't even know I said that enough to be known for saying it.

It would seem I need to find some new phrases.

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Old
09-17-2008, 10:04 AM
  #30
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Fire the scouts

The Flames have been notoriously bad drafters in years past, excluding one defenceman. But if you look at the 2004 draft class up to this point, there are not a vast amount of players tearing up the league that were drafted after Chucko. Mike Green may be the only player in Chucko's vicinity that has contributed, and if you consider that Booth & Dubinsky (late 2nd) Franzen (Late 3rd) Campoli (late 7th) and Streit (early 9th) are the only players worth mentioning that were drafted after him, then expecting Chucko to be a fourth line grinder may be the most Calgary can hope for. If you are choked about a pick not contributing consider we drafted Fata with our 6th pick and players like Tanguay, Regehr, Gagne and Gomez were drafted later in the 1st round. As well that same draft the Flames picked Paul Manning two picks before Brad Richards. Nice touch!!

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Old
09-22-2008, 07:12 PM
  #31
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Chucko was not a great draft pick. I said it at the time and I still say. I still think he'll play in the NHL, but it'l likely be as a 3rd/4th liner. However, getting Boyd was worth trading down IMO.

Specifically to Chucko though, today was probably the best i've ever seen him play. He was fast with and without the puck. Drove the net well, had a couple of very nice finishes, and also checked Baldwin so hard he had to leave the practice. He looked very motivated and very quick. He won't make the team, but he was impressive.

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09-22-2008, 08:37 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cross16 View Post
Chucko was not a great draft pick. I said it at the time and I still say. I still think he'll play in the NHL, but it'l likely be as a 3rd/4th liner. However, getting Boyd was worth trading down IMO.

Specifically to Chucko though, today was probably the best i've ever seen him play. He was fast with and without the puck. Drove the net well, had a couple of very nice finishes, and also checked Baldwin so hard he had to leave the practice. He looked very motivated and very quick. He won't make the team, but he was impressive.
maybe Warrener laid him out to send a message

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09-22-2008, 08:48 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
maybe Warrener laid him out to send a message
I wish someone got that on film.

I like Chucko but that would of been great.

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Old
09-22-2008, 11:44 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cross16 View Post
Specifically to Chucko though, today was probably the best i've ever seen him play. He was fast with and without the puck. Drove the net well, had a couple of very nice finishes, and also checked Baldwin so hard he had to leave the practice. He looked very motivated and very quick. He won't make the team, but he was impressive.
Good to hear. I was really impressed with him during the development camp. Big year for him coming up.

PIMking you saw most of QC games right? What did you think of Chucko? Where was he playing last year? Just looking at the stats and doing some reading he was a lot better in the second half of the season. Is that fair?

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09-23-2008, 12:47 PM
  #35
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Chucko was 3rd in fitness testing among all prospects

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Old
09-23-2008, 12:48 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
yeah....i am sure you would trade a Cadillac for a Ford Tempo and two Pinto....
I guess they all can be functional
I like how you compare someone who has never gotten 50 points to a caddy... That would make Cammalleri a Fighter Jet?

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09-23-2008, 01:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Eradicator View Post
Chucko was 3rd in fitness testing among all prospects
That is great news.

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09-23-2008, 01:53 PM
  #38
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It doesn't appear as though he has given up yet. Good on him.

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09-23-2008, 01:57 PM
  #39
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It doesn't appear as though he has given up yet. Good on him.
Yeah it is good to know. Considering how everyone else has, or at least the majority of what would be his fanbase.

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09-23-2008, 06:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by flamesfan12 View Post
Good to hear. I was really impressed with him during the development camp. Big year for him coming up.

PIMking you saw most of QC games right? What did you think of Chucko? Where was he playing last year? Just looking at the stats and doing some reading he was a lot better in the second half of the season. Is that fair?
I missed one home game last year and went to 8 road games for the Farmers.

He needs to have someone paired up that is a playmaker and passer (ie Tanguay) and he would put up some serious numbers. Hits well, has the drive but sometimes he just seems lazy. I have stated on other boards that I think him and Sutter will have break out years. I think Sutter will be a gem. he gives 150% all the time he just needs to mature as a player. Chucko on the other hand has the skill but hes like a rich kid with too many nice cars so the dont know what to do with them.

He will be a 3rd liner unless matched with a guy that cant shoot but can pass.

He drives the net like a dumptruck on water its amazing how he crashes the net and picks up the garbage.

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Old
09-23-2008, 06:39 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eradicator View Post
Chucko was 3rd in fitness testing among all prospects
Awesome news. I know I'm one of the only people on this board that seem to be pulling for him, but I really hope he proves everyone wrong.


Quote:
I missed one home game last year and went to 8 road games for the Farmers.

He needs to have someone paired up that is a playmaker and passer (ie Tanguay) and he would put up some serious numbers. Hits well, has the drive but sometimes he just seems lazy. I have stated on other boards that I think him and Sutter will have break out years. I think Sutter will be a gem. he gives 150% all the time he just needs to mature as a player. Chucko on the other hand has the skill but hes like a rich kid with too many nice cars so the dont know what to do with them.

He will be a 3rd liner unless matched with a guy that cant shoot but can pass.

He drives the net like a dumptruck on water its amazing how he crashes the net and picks up the garbage.
What line did Chucko play on most of the year? 2nd or 3rd?

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09-23-2008, 08:30 PM
  #42
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He played alot of 2nd. McGill didnt keep lines together very long at all.

That I thought could be a problem with the chemistry on the team.

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Old
11-05-2008, 04:29 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Wow.

Just wow.

What the heck do you call a successful draft then?

We drafted what look to be three NHLers with our first four picks. Prust looks like a legitimate NHL player early in his career as he's making a significant impact on the fourth line by checking, fighting and scoring goals. He will likely get better too.

Pardy is still early but management thinks that he will be a serviceable 5th-6th defenceman. Something EVERY team needs.

Boyd is filling out and looks to have legitimate top-six potential and has almost played himself into a top-six role with just 10 games into the season.

And that draft was a disappointment? Give your head a shake.

Brutal.
Still stewing from the last discussion on Chucko. You pulled the same obnoxious histrionics, then quietly left the tread after being presented with proof to back up my assertions that you demanded.

Where were there any criticisms of the Prust, Boyd and Pardy picks? Let me give you a hint. Nowhere. Don't let that stop you from trying to settle an old score though...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
My mistake.
For the record, based solely on reports, my posts have been more encouraging about Niemisz than many of the others here. (Yes, the other post was about Chucko.) Besides, you've been here long enough to know that I'd give a prospect ample time before considering to attach the "bust" label, and you should be above trying to join a dogpile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb0la11 View Post
Snoil I like your positive attitude but its hard for me to justify any "power forward" as a legitimate project with some actual untapped potential unless the player has skill.

Quite simple, Nemisz isnt very skillful. I mean if we drafted this guy to stand in front of the net ala Tomas Holmstrom then its a wasted pick. You can't draft crap like that, that's a sixth sense to be a stud in that kind of position and is something that the player is just always good at. Keith Tkachuk, Tomas Vanek and Holmstrom come to mind as guys that were good in that role. Is there many more that have made a career off it? Not really.

I havent seen much of Nemisz in front of the net but I have seen him in several games on tv and in person at canada camps including u18 ones before his draft year. Not to mention rookie camps this year and the main camp as well.

I'll reassess continually and I'd easily change my opinion if he makes strides, and if so I'd gladly eat crow for being wrong all while praising the flames for the pick, but I dont really see much chance of that happening. We'll see I guess.

I definitely havent casted definitive judgement on Neisz yet but if you ask me we could have done better with the pick and I've been saying that since the moment Sutter announced it and Nemisz was still walking up to the stage to put on the Flames Reds...


Not sure how Vanek belongs in that same category. Dave Andreychuk made a career out of parking in front of the net, and banging in garbage goals. Because of his size he was difficult to move out from near the crease. Even though those goals aren't "pretty," the willingness and ability to absorb the punishment more than compensates for the lesser skill.

Because of Holmstrom's exploits in the playoffs, this role is highly sought after by clubs. Ryan Smith took that act to Denver. Erik Cole gave the Flames fits over that one weekend, and our own, loved and revered Bertuzzi was brought in with this same purpose in mind.


Last edited by Badger Bob: 11-05-2008 at 05:45 PM.
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Old
11-06-2008, 12:21 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
Still stewing from the last discussion on Chucko. You pulled the same obnoxious histrionics, then quietly left the tread after being presented with proof to back up my assertions that you demanded.
Mod-edit: deleted. I didn't respond to your last comment in the Chucko thread because about 3-5 other posters did and thoroughly refuted you. Your quotes proving that people had top end expectations for Chucko were ill-founded and in some cases actively disproving your argument.


Quote:
Where were there any criticisms of the Prust, Boyd and Pardy picks? Let me give you a hint. Nowhere. Don't let that stop you from trying to settle an old score though...
Here's what you said:

Quote:
This isn't to second guess, since it's already self-evident that Chucko was a wasted pick. Some redemption could come if Prust, Boyd and Pardy find decent enough roles, but the bet here is that 2004 will be regarded as a mediocre draft for the Flames, at most.
You said that some redemption could come if the Prust, Boyd and Pardy picks work out but that 2004 was still mediocre.

I think that complete bunk and have stated as such earlier. (which you did not address)

Your only criteria for assessing a good or mediocre draft seems to be the return of the top pick. I stated that we likely have drafted 3 NHLers one of which looks like a top six player. I think that 2004 is a great looking draft so far Mod-edit: deleted.


Last edited by Snoil11: 11-06-2008 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Flaming
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Old
11-06-2008, 06:14 PM
  #45
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I wonder if anyone with the Flames organization read these blogs, and how loud do they laugh when they read the comments made by the armchair scouts.

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Old
11-06-2008, 06:35 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob View Post
Still stewing from the last discussion on Chucko. You pulled the same obnoxious histrionics, then quietly left the tread after being presented with proof to back up my assertions that you demanded.

Where were there any criticisms of the Prust, Boyd and Pardy picks? Let me give you a hint. Nowhere. Don't let that stop you from trying to settle an old score though...




For the record, based solely on reports, my posts have been more encouraging about Niemisz than many of the others here. (Yes, the other post was about Chucko.) Besides, you've been here long enough to know that I'd give a prospect ample time before considering to attach the "bust" label, and you should be above trying to join a dogpile.





Not sure how Vanek belongs in that same category. Dave Andreychuk made a career out of parking in front of the net, and banging in garbage goals. Because of his size he was difficult to move out from near the crease. Even though those goals aren't "pretty," the willingness and ability to absorb the punishment more than compensates for the lesser skill.

Because of Holmstrom's exploits in the playoffs, this role is highly sought after by clubs. Ryan Smith took that act to Denver. Erik Cole gave the Flames fits over that one weekend, and our own, loved and revered Bertuzzi was brought in with this same purpose in mind.
I'd honestly rank vanek the 2nd best at being in front of the net in the league. Ask Sabres fans. There was one earlier this year forecasting him to have 40 goals this year and 35 being tip ins in front of the net. (as a joke of course, but obviously off his role in front of the net)

Anyways, it is valuable for sure, and if Nemisz can do it then I'd be pumped but to be drafting a guy based off this strategy is questionable to say the least. Not sure minor hockey teams focus on developing that kind of skill... Think about it, one guy stands in front of the net, a couple shoot pucks and what? The rest of the team stands around watching? Not a very good drill. Not a drill that has good use of the entire ice surface etc...

This type of skill is developed by players on there own perhaps after practice or by pure whit around the net or other elements. Its something that will just develop on its own. I dont think it can be adequately projected to be NHL calibre at the age of 18.

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Old
11-06-2008, 08:31 PM
  #47
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Mod-edit: deleted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
I didn't respond to your last comment in the Chucko thread because about 3-5 other posters did and thoroughly refuted you.
Mod-edit: deleted. One poster responded. (He was driven off CP, btw.)

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=549626


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Your quotes proving that people had top end expectations for Chucko were ill-founded and in some cases actively disproving your argument.
Funny how that works out. Those who were warning about the lack of progress came from followers of the Minnesota program. A frequent poster on this board was ready to put in the Flames (big club) lineup. One said "Ryan Smyth skill" (hopefully in jest) and another compared him with Ethan Moreau. Only two of us (HF Flames fans) found him suspect. It's not like that was the only thread Chucko's name arose.


If you can locate some threads from this board, before '06, where Flames fans (other than DFW or me) questioned Chucko's future as a prospect, be my guest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Here's what you said:



You said that some redemption could come if the Prust, Boyd and Pardy picks work out but that 2004 was still mediocre.
Yeah, so? If Chucko busts, that leaves a 3rd liner, a grinder and a #7. All are doing fine now, but none of those roles are irreplaceable. Don't like it? Tough *******.

We've got a different standards. Nothing less than a Cup will do. Maybe you're messing around with Phoenix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
I think that complete bunk and have stated as such earlier. (which you did not address)
One time, some other loudmouth from CP acted all offended and demanded clarification on a non-controversial subject one. Maybe this type of "discourse" is common now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Your only criteria for assessing a good or mediocre draft seems to be the return of the top pick. I stated that we likely have drafted 3 NHLers one of which looks like a top six player. I think that 2004 is a great looking draft so far Mod-edit:deleted.
Who went to the mat? It'll take years to assess. The Sutter draft record has been pretty freakin' spotty though.
Mod-edit: deleted.


Last edited by Snoil11: 11-06-2008 at 10:01 PM. Reason: qdp/Flaming/talking about the mods
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Old
11-06-2008, 10:31 PM
  #48
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Moved the discussion about discussion from the Nemisz thread over here and cleaned it up. Please keep it civilized and focus on the topic and not the other posters.

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Old
11-07-2008, 10:44 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Badger Bob View Post
Yeah, so? If Chucko busts, that leaves a 3rd liner, a grinder and a #7. All are doing fine now, but none of those roles are irreplaceable. Don't like it? Tough *******.
If you think these players have maxed out their potential as above you are sorely mistaken sir. I understand that you are trying to drive a point home that you aren't happy with the Chucko pick or the draft for that matter. Just don't go off the deep end in the other way. Boyd is looking like he could have a regular top 6 if not top 3 potential. Prust is looking to be a viable option for an agitator with some finish to boot. Pardy we still haven't seen much of but he has all the potential to be in the top 6. I agree the Chucko pick could have been better used on someone else. Hey at least we didn't take Schremp.

To say 2004 was a bad draft is wrong. If you get 3 NHL quality players out of a draft you are doing a damn fine job.

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11-07-2008, 01:47 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Flames 4 Life View Post
If you think these players have maxed out their potential as above you are sorely mistaken sir. I understand that you are trying to drive a point home that you aren't happy with the Chucko pick or the draft for that matter. Just don't go off the deep end in the other way. Boyd is looking like he could have a regular top 6 if not top 3 potential. Prust is looking to be a viable option for an agitator with some finish to boot. Pardy we still haven't seen much of but he has all the potential to be in the top 6. I agree the Chucko pick could have been better used on someone else. Hey at least we didn't take Schremp.

To say 2004 was a bad draft is wrong. If you get 3 NHL quality players out of a draft you are doing a damn fine job.
Know what? Somebody else interjecting into a reluctant debate to take quotes out of context is almost as annoying as a thread stalker. Nobody said that they had "maxed out." We're not even a quarter of a way into the season. Want to have a serious discussion about prospects? Let them have a tenure of at least 5 years, preferrably with significant post-season experience and effective play in different game situations, before placing any judgment. Then we can talk.

Incidentally, the comments about Chucko were that he had something to prove this season. (He still could make it, but not many are holding high expecations.) Mod-edit: deleted.

If anybody else is still paying attention, and wants to examine the Sutter draft record to draw his/her own conclusions, here's some reference material:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr000043.html

Other members have been far more critical of the draft history than me. Go jump on them instead next time.


Last edited by Snoil11: 11-08-2008 at 12:10 AM. Reason: Discussing other users
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