HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Why couldnt we have kept Jagr and just focused on the Defense?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-11-2008, 08:29 AM
  #26
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
orpik-girardi
staal-streit
commodore-mara
In my opinion our defense is much, much better than that one...

azrok22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 09:22 AM
  #27
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,344
vCash: 500
Now I feel like my sarcastic rant about Rozsival's birthday was prophetic or something. Awesome.

In short, the defense in the OP sucks.

Levitate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:03 AM
  #28
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
I still get a kick out of all those who abhor Jagr. Talking about him as a whiny biatch. How he was self-centered, egotistical and how everything had to run through him. I guess I was watching a different Jagr those three years. I thought I saw a guy who cared and who carried this team for three seasons. I thought I saw a guy who never whined or pouted and that despite carrying a target on his back, carrying the Rangers on his back, and being out there for 20 minutes per game while being abused nightly because he was the only Ranger worth abusing, he never, ever missed a regular season game and tried to play in the playoffs when he couldn't even lift his arm! The guy played better than any other Ranger the last three seasons, even with one arm. Yes, that's a whiner. And you know why the plays ran through him? Because that was the team's best option, unfortunately. Wasn't this the guy who had Brad Isbister as his winger to help pad Jagr's stats so he can be up for a raise? How about playing with Hossa? I remember him going to the papers saying "I can't believe I'm stuck with this dolt". Or in his final year of his contract his centerman was a rookie. And I remember all those games during last season when the cameras panned to him showing him sulking as his PP time was significantly cut (his average during the season was a full minute 30 less than the prior year, and it was skewed towards the second half of the season, so it was likely cut).

Jagr was a model citizen from day 1 when he came to the Rangers. He was reason #1 why the Rangers got back to respectability. I never was a Jagr fan and I never will be. I complained about how the offense ran through him, the PP, etc., from sometime around the first month after the lockout. But, I recognize that wasn't his fault and he was doing as much as he can to help this organization get back to respectability and help his team win any way he can. I'm not saying he should've been signed, but at the same time I am saying I don't understand how there's so much flaming for the individual responsible for two playoff series wins and 5 playoff series appearances compared to zero in the prior [8?] seasons.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:06 AM
  #29
Turambar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
on that note....

"hi, i'm earth, have we met?"
I don't think so.

Turambar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:20 AM
  #30
zestystrat
Registered User
 
zestystrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC > Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 621
vCash: 500
I opened up the thread not to read or converse on the OP's topic but to watch everyone rip him a new one for posting this.

Sorry kenjets36, this would have been a great topic in July.


Last edited by zestystrat: 09-11-2008 at 10:30 AM.
zestystrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:36 AM
  #31
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I still get a kick out of all those who abhor Jagr. Talking about him as a whiny biatch. How he was self-centered, egotistical and how everything had to run through him. I guess I was watching a different Jagr those three years. I thought I saw a guy who cared and who carried this team for three seasons. I thought I saw a guy who never whined or pouted and that despite carrying a target on his back, carrying the Rangers on his back, and being out there for 20 minutes per game while being abused nightly because he was the only Ranger worth abusing, he never, ever missed a regular season game and tried to play in the playoffs when he couldn't even lift his arm! The guy played better than any other Ranger the last three seasons, even with one arm. Yes, that's a whiner. And you know why the plays ran through him? Because that was the team's best option, unfortunately. Wasn't this the guy who had Brad Isbister as his winger to help pad Jagr's stats so he can be up for a raise? How about playing with Hossa? I remember him going to the papers saying "I can't believe I'm stuck with this dolt". Or in his final year of his contract his centerman was a rookie. And I remember all those games during last season when the cameras panned to him showing him sulking as his PP time was significantly cut (his average during the season was a full minute 30 less than the prior year, and it was skewed towards the second half of the season, so it was likely cut).

Jagr was a model citizen from day 1 when he came to the Rangers. He was reason #1 why the Rangers got back to respectability. I never was a Jagr fan and I never will be. I complained about how the offense ran through him, the PP, etc., from sometime around the first month after the lockout. But, I recognize that wasn't his fault and he was doing as much as he can to help this organization get back to respectability and help his team win any way he can. I'm not saying he should've been signed, but at the same time I am saying I don't understand how there's so much flaming for the individual responsible for two playoff series wins and 5 playoff series appearances compared to zero in the prior [8?] seasons.
He was at the Center of the Ranger world for the last 3 years, thats where the hate comes from. Come on Fletch, we've seen it with almost every star thats skated on NY ice. He's still fresh in some peoples minds when they think about the Rangers, cant take them serious though.

Jags, thanks for helping us to 3 playoffs and removing us from those god awful 7 years. Now its time to move on, and most of us have.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:41 AM
  #32
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,270
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Jags, thanks for helping us to 3 playoffs and removing us from those god awful 7 years. Now its time to move on, and most of us have.
That's where I am. Let's face it:

- his production has declined every year he's been here.
- he's not getting any younger.
- he still was demanding top money.

How much further was this team going to go being built how they were?

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:42 AM
  #33
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Avery at that price was a little too high. Yes i agree with that but letting Jagr go might have been too much of a mistake. He was great. Yes he went on a lot of streaks for us last year but who was most important to our playoff success? Jaromir. We did not have to make a radical change on our roster like we did this year. The thing that most importantly let us down was the defense. I dont like the signings of Rosival and Redden. For that money the rangers could have had Orpik, Streit, and Commodore. That's 3 quality relatively young defenders exluding Commodore instead of 2 aging defenders who have probably had their peak years pass. Plus we could have still signed Mara and traded Backman and Tyutin(sad to see him go) for Zherdev and Fritsche. And also if we needed to we still would have had enough money to go and get if we so desired Naslund or Sundin or make a trade for a top 6 forward and be under the cap.

I know some people dont like thinking about something that never happened or reading lineups but look at how much more appealable our roster is if it had just been done like i had just wrote:

prucha-dubinsky-jagr
zherdev-gomez-dawes(unless we signed naslund/atop 6 forward/sundin)
callahan-drury-fritsche
sjostrom-betts-korpikowski

orpik-girardi
staal-streit
commodore-mara

henriq

that team would have been insane. clearly the favorites if not only for the atlantic division but the east. now we have a nice young dynamic team but ask yourselves was it really necessary to let jagr go and lock up rosival and redden to way over expensive contracts?
Orpik and Girardi as our top pairing? Are you serious? I thought you said we should have focused on defense. That defense is terrible!

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:46 AM
  #34
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's where I am. Let's face it:

- his production has declined every year he's been here.
- he's not getting any younger.
- he still was demanding top money.

How much further was this team going to go being built how they were?
Yeah people have to realize that there comes a time when a team and player dont fit, and vice versa.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:54 AM
  #35
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's where I am. Let's face it:

- his production has declined every year he's been here.
- he's not getting any younger.
- he still was demanding top money.

How much further was this team going to go being built how they were?
I respect the viewpoint of those like you who appreciate what hes done for the franchise, but also realize it might be time to move on.

What I dont respect is the handful of fans that chastise Jagr for being whiny or having an attitude problem, when all he did was play the game and rescue this franchise from oblivion with the help of Lundqvist. The overall viewpoint from that contingent is "good riddance" to Jagr and part of me hopes to see them eat their words when the opposition is punishing Gomez and Zherdev every night....the same punishment that Jagr dealt with virtually every night of his NHL career. Though declining, Im still one of those people that believe we would have been a better team with him next season, but thats water under the bridge.

Coincidentally, some of those who badmouth Jagr are advocating the return of Brendan Shanahan, whose decline is even steeper.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 10:57 AM
  #36
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,994
vCash: 500
Dude...

forget it.


i'm not even gonna rehash this.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 11:06 AM
  #37
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
That's true, Singn' and Bluenote, but what people are saying about him seems ridiculous at times, like the whiner comments, etc. If someone wants to make an argument why he shouldn't be here this season, tell me his production is declining, the team needs to become more independent of one person (especially one who may not be able to handle the load in a couple years) and couple that with the cost, it doesn't make sense. Those are fine arguments. As there are arguments for. But I get the sense that some think it was so bad around here with him and seemed to paint him as a whining malcontent who was in it for himself and didn't care about the team, and that's not true. And I want to be clear that what I say isn't in support of him coming back or not, it actually has nothing to do with that, it's just in response to certain comments with implications of the past three seasons.

I personally am fine moving on for different reasons than most. I may not be entirely enthused about the personnel and contracts given out to move on, but the idea is there.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 11:17 AM
  #38
Jxmarts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I respect the viewpoint of those like you who appreciate what hes done for the franchise, but also realize it might be time to move on.

What I dont respect is the handful of fans that chastise Jagr for being whiny or having an attitude problem, when all he did was play the game and rescue this franchise from oblivion with the help of Lundqvist. The overall viewpoint from that contingent is "good riddance" to Jagr and part of me hopes to see them eat their words when the opposition is punishing Gomez and Zherdev every night....the same punishment that Jagr dealt with virtually every night of his NHL career. Though declining, Im still one of those people that believe we would have been a better team with him next season, but thats water under the bridge.

Coincidentally, some of those who badmouth Jagr are advocating the return of Brendan Shanahan, whose decline is even steeper.

Jarg led the Rangers for 3 good seasons. If Jagr remained however, the Rangers would have had to continue to shape their team around him. Building around a player in decline sets the franchise back in the long-term, even if it might mean a few extra wins this season.

If Shanahan comes back, the consensus is that he'd have to do so as a role player, probably on the 4th line. It's a totally different scenario.

Jxmarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 11:55 AM
  #39
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
Jarg led the Rangers for 3 good seasons. If Jagr remained however, the Rangers would have had to continue to shape their team around him. Building around a player in decline sets the franchise back in the long-term, even if it might mean a few extra wins this season.

If Shanahan comes back, the consensus is that he'd have to do so as a role player, probably on the 4th line. It's a totally different scenario.
Im copying my post from the Shanny returning thread. Best of luck to you if you really think a depleted Shanahan is coming back as "a 4th line role player"

Heres the problem...This team has 4 legitimate top 6 forwards in Gomez, Zherdev, Drury, and Naslund (I say this with the thinking that Drury will not move to the wing, and Dubinsky will center the 3rd line). If you want to call Dawes a top 6 then fine, but hes still got a few things to prove. Then theres stretches Prucha and Callahan to fill out the top 6...theres no sure-fire solution for sure. Combine that with the fact that Renney has plowed Shanahan into the ground the last 2 seasons, and you're really looking at a recipe for disaster here. The second the trio of Dawes/Prucha/Callahan begin to struggle, you'll see Shanahan getting big minutes. Big minutes he just cant handle anymore.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 11:57 AM
  #40
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post

If Shanahan comes back, the consensus is that he'd have to do so as a role player, probably on the 4th line. It's a totally different scenario.
I agree with this part, especially since I bet Shanny is willing to take a drastic pay cut to remain with the team this coming season. As you mentioned, Shanny is a role player more than anything, and he can probably still score goals pretty much anywhere you put him when he's healthy. Not much of a comparison here. Whether or not the Rangers should bring him back, I'm not really sure

I like Jagr a lot as a player, and will keep watching him play in Russia when I get the chance. As for this team, they are moving in a different direction. I think both Gomez and Drury at one point said they were willing to take on the responsibility of leading this team. Time for them to back up their words

[On a side note, while watching yesterday's Omsk game the announcers claimed that Jagr said that winning the Gagarin Cup, or whatever it's called, is more important to him than winning the Stanley Cup. I'm sure he's just trying to commend the league, but it still struck me as a little odd when I heard it ]

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 11:58 AM
  #41
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,615
vCash: 500
So then the issue becomes, would it have been better to retain Jagr, who is still a top 6 forward (which, incidentally, is exactly what this team lacks).

Or retain Shanahan as a 3rd/4th line role players, which is the type of player that this organization has coming out of its collective ass?

Sorry, but Im not buying into the notion that dumping Jagr and signing Naslund solves some sort of chemistry issue thats better for the future of the organization.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 03:27 PM
  #42
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Bleed...

I could've seen a situation where I can rationalize Jagr being here and accepted. But, what I will add is that Naslund likely cost $3MM+ less than Jagr per season and in this cap era, a 25 goal scorer + $3MM in cap space can be valuable. Perhaps having Jagr would've been more valuable, but I see that as being logical.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2008, 09:44 PM
  #43
Jxmarts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im copying my post from the Shanny returning thread. Best of luck to you if you really think a depleted Shanahan is coming back as "a 4th line role player"

Heres the problem...This team has 4 legitimate top 6 forwards in Gomez, Zherdev, Drury, and Naslund (I say this with the thinking that Drury will not move to the wing, and Dubinsky will center the 3rd line). If you want to call Dawes a top 6 then fine, but hes still got a few things to prove. Then theres stretches Prucha and Callahan to fill out the top 6...theres no sure-fire solution for sure. Combine that with the fact that Renney has plowed Shanahan into the ground the last 2 seasons, and you're really looking at a recipe for disaster here. The second the trio of Dawes/Prucha/Callahan begin to struggle, you'll see Shanahan getting big minutes. Big minutes he just cant handle anymore.

I agree with you, actually. If Shanny comes back, it MUST be as a power play / shootout specialist only. Dawes/Prucha/Callahan have to be given the chance to sink or swim. Even then, I see this as a transitional year as the Rangers remain woefully short of at least one young, productive power forward. They might bring him back to help out, but I hope they understand that Shanny is neither a long or short term solution.

Jxmarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.