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Old
09-17-2008, 03:50 PM
  #101
Jeds2StepOpus
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Originally Posted by D713B View Post
Apparently he may be playing in more contests this coming year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/p...urn=nhl,108418

Interesting quote from Downey, which applies to what we have been discussing:

" Downey said. "You don't think the Dallas Stars are going to want a piece of us? Phoenix Coyotes? But with me here, nobody is going to be taking liberties."

Funny, I like the rought stuff and the fighting. But even I don't think having an enforcer prevents a damn thing. But it's interesting that Downey believes his presence does prevent opponents from taking liberties.

Who knows, maybe it does. There's a reason just about every player on any team always loves their enforcer.

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09-17-2008, 04:37 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Interesting quote from Downey, which applies to what we have been discussing:

" Downey said. "You don't think the Dallas Stars are going to want a piece of us? Phoenix Coyotes? But with me here, nobody is going to be taking liberties."

Funny, I like the rought stuff and the fighting. But even I don't think having an enforcer prevents a damn thing. But it's interesting that Downey believes his presence does prevent opponents from taking liberties.

Who knows, maybe it does. There's a reason just about every player on any team always loves their enforcer.
Downey's just playing his part. Tough talk - professional wrestling 101

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09-17-2008, 05:11 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Interesting quote from Downey, which applies to what we have been discussing:

" Downey said. "You don't think the Dallas Stars are going to want a piece of us? Phoenix Coyotes? But with me here, nobody is going to be taking liberties."

Funny, I like the rought stuff and the fighting. But even I don't think having an enforcer prevents a damn thing. But it's interesting that Downey believes his presence does prevent opponents from taking liberties.

Who knows, maybe it does. There's a reason just about every player on any team always loves their enforcer.
The thing is most of the skilled players will say the same thing. That they felt much more protected last year than in previous years where people targetted them and that people had to answer for what they did wrong last year.

I think the new-NHL the extent to which people's behaviour is changed on the ice has to be much less than it was because of an enforcers presence. But I think actions to get answered with an enforcer. And I think its maybe a little bit of a mental thing. Its demoralizing to get huge hits against you or cheap shots and you KNOW nothing could have or will be done. With an enforcer you feel much more protected and unified (whether or not you actually are heh)

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09-17-2008, 06:41 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
It is really simple.

Colton Orr is the slowest player on the roster. He has the least skill. He has the worst skating ability. And he has 6 points in 163 career NHL games. At a -15 clip. Another horrifying stat is that he has only 48 career shots on goal. And that is not because he doesn't have the opportunity... that is because he is downright AWFUL.

That is why he gets no mention. And that is why he may not even make the cut this year.

He is a good guy, i like him as a person. But he is an awful NHL player.
You won't have a team left by christmas And please don't compare downie to colton orr.Downie wouldn't last a week being your main enforcer ever.

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09-17-2008, 10:44 PM
  #105
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They just signed Darren McCarty to a two way deal. Looks like the Wings realize they will need some muscle in the line up this season.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...LOG09/80917059

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09-18-2008, 08:17 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D713B View Post
They just signed Darren McCarty to a two way deal. Looks like the Wings realize they will need some muscle in the line up this season.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...LOG09/80917059
Nobody is disputing that teams need toughness in their lineups. And I'm not really against fighting. I want team toughness. I want a a team that outhits every team they play, every shift, every game.

Now you can't even compare Darren McCarty to Colton Orr. McCarty's worst season still bests Orr's career numbers. But McCarty is a good example of the kind of player I'm talking about. A guy who is tough, who adds muscle to the lineup, who can fight — but can also play the game.

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09-18-2008, 08:44 AM
  #107
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Voros may (or hopefully will) be this team's McCarty (or I should say McCarty-lite). A guy who can score 8-10 goals as a third liner and possibly more if he's afforded PP time (this remains to be seen). I should emphasize the word "may" because Voros has basically been a career AHLer who did well when given a chance last season, but I'd say the jury's still out.

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09-18-2008, 10:01 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Voros may (or hopefully will) be this team's McCarty (or I should say McCarty-lite). A guy who can score 8-10 goals as a third liner and possibly more if he's afforded PP time (this remains to be seen). I should emphasize the word "may" because Voros has basically been a career AHLer who did well when given a chance last season, but I'd say the jury's still out.
The problem with relying on Voros to be any kind of primary enforcer is that he's a really bad fighter... even worse than Hollweg, who was undersized but scrappy. Voros is an agitator and more than willing to drop his gloves, but all I've ever seen him do is try to get his opponent in a headlock and hold on for dear life.

It isn't necessary to win every fight in the NHL anymore, but I still prefer having someone on my roster who could give my opponents something to think about, if the need arises. I'm not sure Voros is capable of that from what I've seen of him. And neither are Jessiman or Byers.

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09-18-2008, 11:34 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
The problem with relying on Voros to be any kind of primary enforcer is that he's a really bad fighter... even worse than Hollweg, who was undersized but scrappy.
OK I like to think I call it like it is without any bias. I've watched every youtube vid of Voros fights and can't see why he would be called a worse fighter than Hollweg. In fact, I thought he held his own in every fight quite well. Maybe a few of them weren't too thrilling, but that's just how it goes. Hell, 90% of Laraque fights are 8th grade slow dances.

Regardless, I like Orr, but if Voros can do the basically the same thing and occasionally net a few, I'm all for sitting Orr.

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Old
09-18-2008, 01:01 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Garv23 View Post
OK I like to think I call it like it is without any bias. I've watched every youtube vid of Voros fights and can't see why he would be called a worse fighter than Hollweg. In fact, I thought he held his own in every fight quite well. Maybe a few of them weren't too thrilling, but that's just how it goes. Hell, 90% of Laraque fights are 8th grade slow dances.

Regardless, I like Orr, but if Voros can do the basically the same thing and occasionally net a few, I'm all for sitting Orr.
I am fine with whoever wins the damn final spot as the enforcer........regardless they both make the team

If Renny wants more offense i think it's Voros though............with Sjostrom and Betts

ALSO

Orr is a FA next yr.........same goes with Rissmiller, Betts, Kalinen and Mara..............they will let them all walk to clear salary and room for the young players in Hartford that will be ready

On D Sanguinetti, Potter

Upfront - long list but Cherapanov, Aminisev, Korpikoski,Byers, Moore,Jamtin , blah blah

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Old
09-18-2008, 06:00 PM
  #111
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Let's just use real experience to guide this discussion: Hanlon's Caps were taking runs at the Rangers all game long until Orr knocked loose a couple of Ovechkin's teeth. The rest of the game the Caps play meekly and humbly.

Brokejaw Fedoruk was running Jagr every shift at the Garden with junior Dolan getting more and more angry. Next time up Renney dresses Orr who promptly ends Fedoruk's season and the Flyers have behaved themselves ever since.

Hockey is a physical game but if the Rangers have no one willing to be vicious between the whistles, thier opponents' turn it up a notch and the Rangers smaller skilled players suffer.

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Old
09-18-2008, 06:23 PM
  #112
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voros will be an everyday player....theres a reason sather and renney signed him to a 3 year deal......he scores ugly goals is a good skater and agitates the opposition...

also, on the note of the fact that jessiman and byers cant fight:
both arent anywhere near enforcers but i would put them near the top of the organization in that category....orr, voros, soryal, jessiman, byers....they both learned a lot last season and got considerably better.....i like how the bottom two lines are forming into lines with guys who are big and strong, can skate and land bombs when needed

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09-18-2008, 06:34 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garv23 View Post
...and can't see why he would be called a worse fighter than Hollweg. In fact, I thought he held his own in every fight quite well. Maybe a few of them weren't too thrilling, but that's just how it goes.

Regardless, I like Orr, but if Voros can do the basically the same thing and occasionally net a few, I'm all for sitting Orr.
Versus Owen Nolan:

Versus Jovo:

Versus Strudwick


Let's be absolutely clear here, Voros has no fear in dropping the gloves, but Matt Barnaby was a better fighter. He's a downgrade to Strudwick in actual terms of fighting skills. Please don't misrepresent Aaron as a new enforcer.

Grit, yes, enforcer, no.

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09-18-2008, 07:32 PM
  #114
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Ah, ya win some lose some. Hey, I'll be happy and cheering like a madman for whoever gets the spot.

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Old
09-18-2008, 08:14 PM
  #115
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like i said....voros will not be an enforcer, but he will help.....i dont know about anyoen else but i was sick of always seeing how orr had to be the only one to stick up for anyone because struds wasnt ever in the lineup.....if the rangers can dress dubi, voros and orr all together then that is a solid group of players who can throw punches.....

again, will he replace orr?.....no, but he helps and he adds grit. plus the fact that he is only 26 so he still has some time to learn the trade...maybe he and orr can help eachother out(more orr using him as a punching bag)

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Old
09-18-2008, 09:14 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Garv23 View Post
OK I like to think I call it like it is without any bias. I've watched every youtube vid of Voros fights and can't see why he would be called a worse fighter than Hollweg. In fact, I thought he held his own in every fight quite well. Maybe a few of them weren't too thrilling, but that's just how it goes. Hell, 90% of Laraque fights are 8th grade slow dances.

Regardless, I like Orr, but if Voros can do the basically the same thing and occasionally net a few, I'm all for sitting Orr.

I don't think either one is heavyweight material. But because Hollweg is 5-10 & Voros is 6-3, I'm always more inclined to see it as a moral victory for Hollweg take on a much bigger player like a Ben Eager regardless of whether he wins or not.

The real point I was trying to make is that players like Voros, Byers & Jessiman are more comparable to Ryan Hollweg than to Colton Orr. When I say that "they can't fight," I mean that I can't see them replacing Colton Orr on the roster as the Rangers' primary deterrent/enforcer. Justin Soryal is the only player in the Rangers' organization who could eventually supplant Orr, but it's unlikely to happen this year.

It's debatable whether you need to have a heavyweight in the lineup every game, but I do think it's still important to have one on the roster.

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09-18-2008, 09:38 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
I don't think either one is heavyweight material. But because Hollweg is 5-10 & Voros is 6-3, I'm always more inclined to see it as a moral victory for Hollweg take on a much bigger player like a Ben Eager regardless of whether he wins or not.

The real point I was trying to make is that players like Voros, Byers & Jessiman are more comparable to Ryan Hollweg than to Colton Orr. When I say that "they can't fight," I mean that I can't see them replacing Colton Orr on the roster as the Rangers' primary deterrent/enforcer. Justin Soryal is the only player in the Rangers' organization who could eventually supplant Orr, but it's unlikely to happen this year.

It's debatable whether you need to have a heavyweight in the lineup every game, but I do think it's still important to have one on the roster.
i agree that they wont totally replace him, but it is always better to have players who can score and fight then just a fighter....look at all the teams without heavyweights....they do just fine because most of them have teamwide toughness like philly for example

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09-19-2008, 12:42 AM
  #118
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For me it's the same argument it's been for years around here:

Colton Orr has a role to play on this team, but...

1. It will never be enough for the people who want him dressed 80 games.

2. It will never be enough for the people who want him in the press box.

As for the Orr/Voros comments:

1. Orr is a fighter and that's it. Anyone expecting him to be more is going to be disappointed.

2. I like Voros, but I'm far from sold on him and I don't think he's a sure thing, regardless of the contract we gave him.

A 26-year-old minor leaguer pops in 7 goals and loses a bunch of fights and he's not suddenly a sure thing.

Personally, I hated the contract. A guy like Byers may or may not be ready, but right now I see some dollars tied into a lot of potential junk on the fourth line.

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09-21-2008, 08:36 AM
  #119
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Orr?

OMG! was i the only one who realized he can play? He had training over the summer to make him a better player, and it worked!

Nice job Orr

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09-21-2008, 08:52 AM
  #120
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I definitely noticed an improvement with his skating.

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09-21-2008, 09:00 AM
  #121
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Got love a guy who knows he has to get better and actually goes out and improves himself. Orr did look like he was more in control and lighter on his feet. If only Prucha would realize that it sometimes takes extra work to imrove yourself.

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09-21-2008, 09:26 AM
  #122
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Orr did look like he was trying to make a statement. The guy got much faster and showed some great offensive flashes.

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09-21-2008, 09:43 AM
  #123
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Orr did look like he was trying to make a statement. The guy got much faster and showed some great offensive flashes.
Ok let's not get carried away here. If Orr shoots the puck faster than 30 MPH that's a great offensive flash for him

But yes, he did look better. He actually fired 2 decent shots at the net last night, which is a first for him, and he did skate much better. For a player like Orr, who is basically out there to just protect our players, all he really needs to is be able to skate to allow Renney to put him in the lineup. If he can't do anything but throw punches, then he can only be used scarcely, but as long as he can show he can move around the ice he'd be much more effective.

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09-21-2008, 09:43 AM
  #124
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Orr did look like he was trying to make a statement. The guy got much faster and showed some great offensive flashes.
It was great to see him step up this summer and work with Semenov to get better on the ice. Last nights game definitely showed an improvement and that he wants a spot.

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Old
09-21-2008, 09:44 AM
  #125
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Orr is HORRIBLE.

"He improved his skating"

He still CAN'T SKATE.

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