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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Daly: European expansion on the horizon

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Old
09-12-2008, 05:53 PM
  #26
Fourier
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I am really trying hard to imagine how they could possibly make this work if the intention is to have teams play one another during the season. Are they looking at some sort of affilated league? with separate schedules and championsips, with the possibility of a Champion's Cup?

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09-12-2008, 06:15 PM
  #27
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I think that the NHL is just creating a bargaining chip for future negotiations with the European leagues and federations. "You do this for us, and we will abandon all plans for European expansion".

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09-12-2008, 07:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I think that the NHL is just creating a bargaining chip for future negotiations with the European leagues and federations. "You do this for us, and we will abandon all plans for European expansion".
But the Euro leagues are banking on this happening. Why do you think businessmen are throwing millions into the KHL at a loss? It's a gamble on being absorbed into the NHL one day.

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09-12-2008, 07:10 PM
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09-12-2008, 07:32 PM
  #30
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But the Euro leagues are banking on this happening. Why do you think businessmen are throwing millions into the KHL at a loss? It's a gamble on being absorbed into the NHL one day.
Those businessmen gotta be real nut cases to think that Omsk, a city 14 time zones away from Vancouver, could be one day absorbed into the NHL.

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09-12-2008, 07:39 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Den View Post
Those businessmen gotta be real nut cases to think that Omsk, a city 14 time zones away from Vancouver, could be one day absorbed into the NHL.
Correct if the NHL does expand to Europe it will be teams to the major cities. That would be Stockholm, Helsinki, Moscow, Prague, Berlin, and maybe London (because of it's international importance).

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09-12-2008, 07:52 PM
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Correct if the NHL does expand to Europe it will be teams to the major cities. That would be Stockholm, Helsinki, Moscow, Prague, Berlin, and maybe London (because of it's international importance).

Another problem is also that all these cities have from one to five local teams playing there with a significant fanbase, so I don't quite see what the NHL has to do to attract fans in numbers to fill up NHL sized arenas for every game.

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09-12-2008, 07:57 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
Another problem is also that all these cities have from one to five local teams playing there with a significant fanbase, so I don't quite see what the NHL has to do to attract fans in numbers to fill up NHL sized arenas for every game.
As I mentioned before, it's crucial, that they offer a much better on-ice product. Send the league's top players on a regular base or stay at home.

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09-12-2008, 08:07 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Den View Post
Another problem is also that all these cities have from one to five local teams playing there with a significant fanbase, so I don't quite see what the NHL has to do to attract fans in numbers to fill up NHL sized arenas for every game.
Teams would likely defect from the national league and join NHL Europe or whatever it will be called (Sterner conference, east of east conference?).

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09-12-2008, 08:15 PM
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Teams would likely defect from the national league and join NHL Europe or whatever it will be called (Sterner conference, east of east conference?).
That my be the best way to go about but that presents a lot of problems for the NHL. It would hurt the leagues relationship with the federations as they would be coming in as basically a predator and taking hse teams would severely hurt those national leagues. Also is fan backlash against the NHL for coming in the fashion they did.

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09-12-2008, 08:28 PM
  #36
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Teams would likely defect from the national league and join NHL Europe or whatever it will be called (Sterner conference, east of east conference?).
Wouldn't the idea be to create new franchises? If they just admit frolundas and jokerits, then it might work in some cities, but Stockholm for example has 2 top-level team, Moscow - 6, Helsinki - 3 teams, so you bring in only a part of fanbase. Nor do I think fans will be too excited about having no derby anymore.

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09-12-2008, 08:31 PM
  #37
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And for God's sake, Stockholm and Helsinki are 9 time zones away from Vancouver. I had to fly Montreal-Stockholm every second week this last spring, I was disfunctional for 4-5 days every time....

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09-12-2008, 11:57 PM
  #38
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To start off with, the people who run the NHL lack vision or they have thus far. Expansion into the southern US could have worked but it was done incorrectly. They decided to put teams in areas with no infastructure for grass roots hockey. If you do not grow up with the sport it is dumb to expect to fill the seats when you have no base.

Again, in Europe countries like Czech Republic and Slovakia appear to be in decline. Perhaps someone from Europe can educate me on how many rinks (not just stadia) are being built.

Even in Canada there seems to be outcry on the loss of community centers, a major source for small town arenas.
My question is "where is all this talent going to come from?"

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09-13-2008, 05:30 AM
  #39
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In Sweden there has been kind of a building boom in recent years when it comes to arenas. But this is mostly because the teams needed to replace their old ones which was built back in the 70's or earlier (because they were to small). In some places the old arena wasn't demolished, so the building of a new one meant that there is one rink more then before.

It's a good question. Where would they find all the talent needed? Europe isn’t exactly going to start producing more talents just because they get 6 NHL teams or something like that. And considering that the league want to expand back in Canada before coming to Europe, and considering the KHL (and possible Nordic league), where are they going to find all the NHL caliber players to fill those teams without making the quality of the league drop?

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09-13-2008, 07:10 AM
  #40
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Future Expansion

How do you guys feel about this talk regarding expansion in the future for atleast one Canadian team and possible a couple of European teams? The NHL in Europe has always been an interesting idea, but the scheduling would prove to be crazy I would think, and travel. But they are testing out these games to see how it will work. We used to see just preseason games in Europe (and Mexico!) but now we are starting to see regular season, so I think it's really being considered.

So what are your thoughts on two European teams coming into the NHL and do you think the league can handle 2 or even 3 more expansion teams?

MOD EDIT: Merged with this thread in BOH. Moved from the General NHL Talk board.


Last edited by Fugu: 09-13-2008 at 03:29 PM.
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Old
09-13-2008, 08:15 AM
  #41
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You don't need "testing" to realize that you can't have Vancouver flying to Finland for a game then having them go and play the Ducks a day later.

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09-13-2008, 09:42 AM
  #42
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From today.



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre

Quote:
Here's what NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had to say this morning in an e-mail exchange when I asked him about the Globe story:

"There is no doubt that there is tremendous worldwide interest in our game and our league, particularly in Europe. While establishing an international presence is a priority, the form of that presence is not anything that anyone can predict with certainty at this time. The Premiere games [in Prague and Stockholm early next month] clearly are a step in that direction.

"In addition, I hope no one confuses the importance of international opportunities with the primary importance of having 30 healthy North American franchises and fully exploring the opportunities here."

They definitely want to do it. But there are obstacles they need to figure out how to solve.

Mainly: Ticket prices in Europe, Contracts, and Travel.




IMO, the travel issue doesn't have to be as complicated as they make it out to be. Some teams can make a 2 week trip overseas and play a number of teams before returning home. Specifically, the trip could happen 2 weeks prior to Christmas, and then give ALL teams a week off to recoup for a Holiday break before getting back to "normal" travel schedule.

That means: 'X' number of European teams come to NA to play 'X' number of teams in a 2 week period of time.

At the same time: 'X' number of NA teams travel to Europe to play 'X' number of European teams in a 2 week period of time.

Each year teams will alternate. Meaning if your team didn't cross the Atlantic this year, they will next year. If your team DID cross the Atlantic this year, they WON'T next year.



And as far as teams in Europe traveling to other European countries, Europe is basically the same size as the Continental US. It shouldn't be an issue at all.


The point is to have the European teams be able to sustain them selves. NOT based on what NA team visits them.

And the object here is to have a whole new CONFERENCE. NOT a division.

The European Conference would play within themselves most of the year, except for the 2 week period of "itner-conference play"

The international pride would probably be enough to fuel rivalries when teams play each other in Europe.

The playoffs are the complicated issue.



Ticket prices in Europe also doesn't need to be an issue. A $40 ticket in the US is $20 in Europe. Just keep everything based off the US dollar. It would HELP the European teams, as 2 of our dollars equates to one of theirs. The Euro is roughly worth twice as much as one US dollar.


If they could get:

2 teams in Sweden
2 in Finland
2 in Germany
2 in the UK
1 in Czech Republic
1 in Norway

You are talking about 10 teams in Europe. That is CLOSE to the 15 in each Conference in NA. And, if you really wanted to, you could CONTRACT a couple teams in NA and move them to Europe to balance things.

4 team contraction, and moved to Europe, would even out the Conference team numbers.


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09-13-2008, 10:03 AM
  #43
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Please no more expansion talk. The travel to Europe alone would be tough on the teams in North America.

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09-13-2008, 10:25 AM
  #44
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No need for Euro teams.

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09-13-2008, 10:42 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james bond View Post
Again, in Europe countries like Czech Republic and Slovakia appear to be in decline. Perhaps someone from Europe can educate me on how many rinks (not just stadia) are being built.
Do you mean economically or in regard of hockey interest?

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09-13-2008, 10:47 AM
  #46
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Not only do they have to make sure all the American markets are stable....they need to make sure the league is fiscally stable.

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09-13-2008, 10:54 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james bond View Post
Again, in Europe countries like Czech Republic and Slovakia appear to be in decline. Perhaps someone from Europe can educate me on how many rinks (not just stadia) are being built.
The Czech Rep is building arenas actually. There have built a bunch of new 7 to 10 thnders recently, one 18-thnder.

http://www.hockeyarenas.net/?ctID=cz...arOrder=arName

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09-13-2008, 10:57 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Not only do they have to make sure all the American markets are stable....they need to make sure the league is fiscally stable.
In a league where 90% - or more - of revenues are locally generated, talk of "league growth" is a bit of a misnomer. Once the expansion fee check is cashed, how do the existing members get additional funds? A finite number of games can be played, while TV interest isn't going to spike just because there are teams in Europe. In fact, the time differences may make things worse. Olympic viewing, which is for a limited period of time, suffers when the games are held in Asia or even Europe. They're at their peaks in NA when the games are in NA. Sponsorship money may be higher, but apparently could be offset by the lower gate receipts. I think this thing is a pipe dream--before we get into the legal issues mentioned above. Those aren't exactly bumps in the road.

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09-13-2008, 11:00 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Snoil11 View Post
Do you mean economically or in regard of hockey interest?
I meant in hockey. It seems as though since players started coming over to play in the CHL, the development model in those countries has floundered. The past few drafts have been lean.

I think the rinks were built back in the Soviet era, which means upgrades should now be in the works. Of course, building rinks is not cheap nor is operating costs.

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09-13-2008, 11:02 AM
  #50
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I personally am not a fan of a possible expansion to Europe at the moment. One of the biggest factors in my mind would be the physical distance between the teams in NA and overseas. Ofcourse, North American teams could easily fly over once and just play their games against the European teams at once and then come back, but I believe it's called the NHL and not the IHL for a reason. It won't feel like a league if you were to have teams in 2 separate continents separated by the Atlantic Ocean.

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