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Cliff's rebuild really begins at the trade deadline 2009

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Old
09-13-2008, 11:16 AM
  #51
mydnyte
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Well Kaberle at $4.25 mil out and Jeff Carter at $5 mil in addresses your concerns..

The rest we can leave up to Brian Burke to spend the free cap space on.

yea, and Burke will offer the Sedins both $40 mil 5 year deals as UFA's

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09-13-2008, 11:22 AM
  #52
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like i said, i think if given the option of having some control over where they'd be traded at the deadline, this would be better than having no inkling where they are traded in the off season, which the leafs can do if they miss the playoffs. as for deadline goalie value, well injuries do happen, and toskala is a very valuable asset, could be mored anytime for maximun return, he'll only compound the quest of finishing low enough to draft a top five player, besides i think its time pogge got a chance, lets see if he can cut it in the bigs.
The problem is it is the crux of your strategy. I agree with the principle, you just have to cross your fingers a lot.

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09-13-2008, 11:28 AM
  #53
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He did rebuild during trade deadine 2008 until now .. He rid the Leafs of McCabe, Tucker, Raycroft, Gill, Kilger, Belak, Wozniewski, Pohl, Welly and maybe even Sundin..


Fletcher's TO-DO-LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Step 1 :
Clearing the Slate -
Step 2 : Position the team for a high Draft pick in 2009 -

Step 3 : Big Seller at the trade deadline 2009 to ensure early pick - pending

Step 4 : Help decide on the new future Super GM

Step 5 : Retire
How on Earth do you give him a check mark on #2?

He went out and acquired a whole slew of defensively responsible players. If your true intention was to tank you'd probably not want to fill your team with guys like that, guys who keep you in where you have no place being.

The hardest teams I always played against were the ones who were all effort, dog without a bone types. Those who expect this team to just drop to the bottom of the standings may find themselves sorely disappointed.

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09-13-2008, 12:03 PM
  #54
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How on Earth do you give him a check mark on #2?

He went out and acquired a whole slew of defensively responsible players. If your true intention was to tank you'd probably not want to fill your team with guys like that, guys who keep you in where you have no place being.

The hardest teams I always played against were the ones who were all effort, dog without a bone types. Those who expect this team to just drop to the bottom of the standings may find themselves sorely disappointed.
He's of the opinion that we'll compete in more games, but lose more games as well. We will be good enough to lose games 2-1 all the time instead of winning one, losing one, etc. It really doesn't make much sense, since being more competitive increases your chances of winning, but it's his theory.

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09-13-2008, 12:16 PM
  #55
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It's okay. I can't see the goal posts. They've been moved far enough away. Everyone take a deep breath and grab a beer. We'll have practice squad games to dissect soon enough.
Sound advice. *grabs beer*

Cant' wait.. what a long summer. Only 9 days until the first preseason game

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Old
09-13-2008, 12:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
He did rebuild during trade deadine 2008 until now .. He rid the Leafs of McCabe, Tucker, Raycroft, Gill, Kilger, Belak, Wozniewski, Pohl, Welly and maybe even Sundin..


Fletcher's TO-DO-LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Step 1 :
Clearing the Slate -
Step 2 : Position the team for a high Draft pick in 2009 -

Step 3 : Big Seller at the trade deadline 2009 to ensure early pick - pending

Step 4 : Help decide on the new future Super GM

Step 5 : Retire
looks like the blue print for rebuilding to me!

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09-13-2008, 12:28 PM
  #57
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looks like the blue print for rebuilding to me!
Me too

Really looking forward to finally having a team worth cheering for, because of the long-term goal of a rebuild now the plan fully endorsed by the MLSE BOG.

Its been long over due, but hey its not so much a matter how long it takes to eventually get to the right place as long as you get there.

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09-13-2008, 12:35 PM
  #58
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Me too

Really looking forward to finally having a team worth cheering for, because of the long-term goal of a rebuild now the plan fully endorsed by the MLSE BOG.

Its been long over due, but hey its not so much a matter how long it takes to eventually get to the right place as long as you get there.
Is it though? If sundin comes back (Wilson now has gone on the record saying that he thinks if he comes back it will be in TO) arent the leafs a better squad then last year? Wouldnt they come up with around the 10th pick?

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09-13-2008, 12:44 PM
  #59
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looks like the blue print for rebuilding to me!
Drafting 5 staright number ones sounds like the blue print for rebuilding too. Unfortunately, Cliff hasn't set us up for that yet either.

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09-13-2008, 12:46 PM
  #60
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Is it though? If sundin comes back (Wilson now has gone on the record saying that he thinks if he comes back it will be in TO) arent the leafs a better squad then last year? Wouldnt they come up with around the 10th pick?
if we do then i think a blockbuster trade is in order, im talkin a few players and a first for the 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall, its not totally out of the question, kubina, kaberle, antropov, toskala, take ur pick, plus our first for the first overall.

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09-13-2008, 12:47 PM
  #61
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Me too

Really looking forward to finally having a team worth cheering for, because of the long-term goal of a rebuild now the plan fully endorsed by the MLSE BOG.

Its been long over due, but hey its not so much a matter how long it takes to eventually get to the right place as long as you get there.
I think the leafs will be enjoyable to watch this year even though they're gonna lose allot of games, should be fast skating, hard hitting hockey, if that doesn't get you excited after the crap we've been watching for the last 3 years i don't know what would.

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09-13-2008, 12:49 PM
  #62
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How on Earth do you give him a check mark on #2?

He went out and acquired a whole slew of defensively responsible players. If your true intention was to tank you'd probably not want to fill your team with guys like that, guys who keep you in where you have no place being.

The hardest teams I always played against were the ones who were all effort, dog without a bone types. Those who expect this team to just drop to the bottom of the standings may find themselves sorely disappointed.
Intentionally tanking is not allowed, however attempting to position a team by GM's own creative design to finish where you want it to, and still give the impression that your're trying is a real art form.

A lot of Leaf Nation fans were fooled into believing that Ferguson did a good job, and had built a competitive team. Now despite Fletcher tearing it apart, and removing some of the biggest players, and telling everyone to expect struggles, fans believe he did too good a job with replacements players that it will not happen.

Apparently Cliff did a good job, because you believe he did a bad job of tanking. That was the whole point of the undertaking in the first place.

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09-13-2008, 12:51 PM
  #63
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Is it though? If sundin comes back (Wilson now has gone on the record saying that he thinks if he comes back it will be in TO) arent the leafs a better squad then last year? Wouldnt they come up with around the 10th pick?
no way does mats come back, thats all lip service, and no head coach is gonna admit he wants to lose, it will be cliffs job to ensure that doesn't happen, not wilson's. which is why i don't understand keeping kubina, but i trust cliff's got a plan, and long term kubina's not part of it.

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09-13-2008, 12:53 PM
  #64
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Drafting 5 staright number ones sounds like the blue print for rebuilding too. Unfortunately, Cliff hasn't set us up for that yet either.
i gotta believe the leafs will had 3 pick in the 2009 draft.

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09-13-2008, 12:54 PM
  #65
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no way does mats come back, thats all lip service, and no head coach is gonna admit he wants to lose, it will be cliffs job to ensure that doesn't happen, not wilson's. which is why i don't understand keeping kubina, but i trust cliff's got a plan, and long term kubina's not part of it.
Wilson likes Kubina and Wilson will be with the team longer than Fletcher will.

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09-13-2008, 01:03 PM
  #66
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I think the leafs will be enjoyable to watch this year even though they're gonna lose allot of games, should be fast skating, hard hitting hockey, if that doesn't get you excited after the crap we've been watching for the last 3 years i don't know what would.
Agreed the last 3 Cap years have been painful to endure, with so little accomplished towards a rebuild that it really wasn't worth all the pain and suffering as a fan. You could say it was nearly a complete waste of time those 3 non playoff years.

Now I'd like to see a real steadfast plan of 3 more bottom feeding years, built on the desire around high 1st round draft picks to finally get this endless *trapped in mediocrity* situation mercifully behind us forever.

This is the first Leaf season since before Y2K even, that I am really looking forward to, knowing and hoping that the ends will justify the means of the current direction.

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09-13-2008, 01:04 PM
  #67
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Wilson likes Kubina and Wilson will be with the team longer than Fletcher will.
agreed, but still believe kubina won't be here come next year.

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09-13-2008, 01:05 PM
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Agreed the last 3 Cap years have been painful to endure, with so little accomplished towards a rebuild that it really wasn't worth all the pain and suffering as a fan. You could say it was nearly a complete waste of time those 3 non playoff years.
A number of excellent draft picks that will be the basis for future GM's to build around happened in those 3 years.

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09-13-2008, 01:09 PM
  #69
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Agreed the last 3 Cap years have been painful to endure, with so little accomplished towards a rebuild that it really wasn't worth all the pain and suffering as a fan. You could say it was nearly a complete waste of time those 3 non playoff years.

Now I'd like to see a real steadfast plan of 3 more bottom feeding years, built on the desire around high 1st round draft picks to finally get this endless *trapped in mediocrity* situation mercifully behind us forever.

This is the first Leaf season since before Y2K even, that I am really looking forward to, knowing and hoping that the ends will justify the means of the current direction.
agree, but if there's a fire sale for maximum return, leafs could have 3 1st's maybe a 2nd, and possibly a couple of thirds next year, that would really speed the rebuild up especially if the leafs don't trade anymore 1st or 2nd picks. look at the kings, team looks pretty bad, and they're biggest problem is they can't reach the cap floor, but have a boat load of picks next year, nice position to be in

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09-13-2008, 01:11 PM
  #70
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A number of excellent draft picks that will be the basis for future GM's to build around happened in those 3 years.
"exellent" draft picks?

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09-13-2008, 01:16 PM
  #71
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Fletcher's TO-DO-LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Step 1 :
Clearing the Slate -
heh - his "clearing the slate" has left us with MORE money committed to the cap, now and in the future.

that's gotta be the worst "clearing the slate" I've ever seen.

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Step 2 : Position the team for a high Draft pick in 2009 -
He's decided to spend $13 mil on quality veteran players this summer, and has hired one of the best coaches in the league.

Again, worst job of "positioning the team for a high draft pick" I've ever seen.


I wish you were my boss, Mess, and were in charge of my performance evaluations.

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09-13-2008, 01:18 PM
  #72
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A number of excellent draft picks that will be the basis for future GM's to build around happened in those 3 years.
Just think what would have been the case if the Leafs had a real GM who had not traded away 4 - 1st round and 4 - 2nd round in his 4+ years on the job.. No Leafs GM in history has ever inflicted that much damage in such a short period of time on the future to protect the present.

Not only would we have those precious few that survived JFJ draft pick purge, but had a whole bunch more to get excited about today. Instead we got Leetch and Raycroft, and Yanic Perreault etc. to ease the loss of those prospects, and endless false hope to hang our hats on.

Well no use dwelling on the past and what could have been, might as well embrace change and get on board the new plan, knowing it has the potential to bare fruit of a brighter tomorrow with a real purpose.

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09-13-2008, 01:22 PM
  #73
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if our older guys play well this year, even on a losing team fletch could "wipe the slate" before deadline and get an awesome return. i mean everyone, toskala, kubina, antropov, kabby, all for young players and picks. then tank untill the end of the season.

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09-13-2008, 01:40 PM
  #74
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if our older guys play well this year, even on a losing team fletch could "wipe the slate" before deadline and get an awesome return. i mean everyone, toskala, kubina, antropov, kabby, all for young players and picks. then tank untill the end of the season.
If these veterans play well enough to be worth something at the deadline, and if a few of the kids step it up, the Leafs will be hard-pressed to be sellers at the deadline. They may not be in a -playoff position, but they will be close enough that dumping players will be challenging.

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09-13-2008, 01:41 PM
  #75
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Intentionally tanking is not allowed, however attempting to position a team by GM's own creative design to finish where you want it to, and still give the impression that your're trying is a real art form.

A lot of Leaf Nation fans were fooled into believing that Ferguson did a good job, and had built a competitive team. Now despite Fletcher tearing it apart, and removing some of the biggest players, and telling everyone to expect struggles, fans believe he did too good a job with replacements players that it will not happen.

Apparently Cliff did a good job, because you believe he did a bad job of tanking. That was the whole point of the undertaking in the first place.
Are you actually able to keep a straight face while you type any of that?

I wonder if it's ever happened that a team could be bottom 5 in goals for yet nowhere near the bottom 5 in points because they played defensively?

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