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08/09 Lineup thread - Do you reunite Lang with Kovalev

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Old
09-14-2008, 03:45 PM
  #151
Turtleneck Plek
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I don't think putting Lang and Lats on the same line is a good choice. The thing is, Higgins or Sergei would be playing with them and would have to do all the backchecking work as the other two are in the top 3 slowest on the team. Lineup should look something like this:

Tanguay-Plekanec-Kovalev
Latendresse-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Lang-S.Kost
Laraque-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

Lapierre/Bégin

Markov/Komisarek
O'Byrne/Hamrlik
Bouillon-Gorges

Price
Halak


If Carbo really wants the Kostitsyn brothers playing together, here's another option:

Tanguay-Lang-Kovalev
S.Kost-Plekanec-A.Kost
Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Laraque-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

Thinking about it, I'd probably go with this second set of lines, seems well balanced. I think Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse could do a lot of damage as a gritty/scoring 3rd line, especially in the playoffs.

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Old
09-14-2008, 04:03 PM
  #152
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For some reason I feel as though Tanguay and Kovalev on the same line won't work out.

I think the best combo will consist of

Tanguay with Koivu
A.Kost playing on his right wing (he is so explosive here)

Tanguay - Koivu - Higgins
Latendresse - Plekanec - Kovalev
S. Kost - Lang - A. Kost
Kostopoulous - Lapierre - Laraque

Or

Tanguay - Koivu - A. Kost
S.Kost - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Lang - Latendresse
Kostopoulous - Lapierre - Laraque


Last edited by habman6: 09-14-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
09-14-2008, 04:06 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akost View Post
I don't think putting Lang and Lats on the same line is a good choice. The thing is, Higgins or Sergei would be playing with them and would have to do all the backchecking work as the other two are in the top 3 slowest on the team. Lineup should look something like this:

Tanguay-Plekanec-Kovalev
Latendresse-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Lang-S.Kost
Laraque-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

Lapierre/Bégin

Markov/Komisarek
O'Byrne/Hamrlik
Bouillon-Gorges

Price
Halak


If Carbo really wants the Kostitsyn brothers playing together, here's another option:

Tanguay-Lang-Kovalev
S.Kost-Plekanec-A.Kost
Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Laraque-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

Thinking about it, I'd probably go with this second set of lines, seems well balanced. I think Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse could do a lot of damage as a gritty/scoring 3rd line, especially in the playoffs.
Depending what Carbo wants to do with Lang, I would say your top three lines can play almost the same amount of minutes each game (16-18). He has so many options on his hands that he can't do no wrong. The only combo I don't want to see (except for PP) is the Koivu-Kovalev combo. Outside of that, carbo can juggle with the rest and give more times to the line(s) that are most deserving on any given nights.

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Old
09-14-2008, 04:33 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by habman6 View Post
For some reason I feel as though Tanguay and Kovalev on the same line won't work out.

I think the best combo will consist of

Tanguay with Koivu
A.Kost playing on his right wing (he is so explosive here)

Tanguay - Koivu - Higgins
Latendresse - Plekanec - Kovalev
S. Kost - Lang - A. Kost
Kostopoulous - Lapierre - Laraque

Or

Tanguay - Koivu - A. Kost
S.Kost - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Lang - Latendresse
Kostopoulous - Lapierre - Laraque

I like a third option in a similar vein:

Tanguay - Koivu - A. Kost
Latendresse - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Lang - S.Kost
Begin- Lapierre[b]/Chipchura - Laraque

This leaves Latendresse on his natural wing; I think he will be a defensive liability on the RW in his own zone.

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Old
09-14-2008, 05:12 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I like a third option in a similar vein:

Tanguay - Koivu - A. Kost
Latendresse - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Lang - S.Kost
Begin- Lapierre[b]/Chipchura - Laraque

This leaves Latendresse on his natural wing; I think he will be a defensive liability on the RW in his own zone.
Latendresse's natural wing is right wing, not left. And i don't like that 2nd line, if Latendresse is the one that plays with Plekanec and Kovalev, you might aswell put A.Kost back there imo

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Old
09-14-2008, 06:21 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akost View Post
I don't think putting Lang and Lats on the same line is a good choice. The thing is, Higgins or Sergei would be playing with them and would have to do all the backchecking work as the other two are in the top 3 slowest on the team. Lineup should look something like this:

Tanguay-Plekanec-Kovalev
Latendresse-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Lang-S.Kost
Laraque-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

Lapierre/Bégin

Markov/Komisarek
O'Byrne/Hamrlik
Bouillon-Gorges

Price
Halak

Very nice... I think this line-up is very close to reality...

With that said, I have something different to propose to you guys.

I did my little math work and I came up with a little scheme.

Let's see some probable facts for the top 9:

Centers: Plekanec, Koivu, Lang

LW: Tanguay, Higgins, Latendresse

I don't think that Carbo will put Lats on the right side because he is a poor backchecker, too slow and his defensive positionning is just awful... being on the RW will cost too many goals, so I'm pretty sure Carbo knows it already. With that said, the guy that will be moved to RW is probably Andrei Kostitsyn.

RW: Kovalev, Sergei and Andrei Kostitsyn

Now for the lines, if we want a playmaker, a sniper and a good 2-way forward on each line:

Snipers: A.Kostitsyn = 1, Latendresse =2, "Higgins" =3

PLaymakers: Tanguay =1, Koivu =2, S.Kostitsyn =3

2-way forward or Unknown: Plekanec =1, Kovalev =2, "Lang" =3

Which means, the 3 snipers will need to be on 3 different lines, the same goes for the 3 playmakers... And each Snipers will need to be paired with a playmaker.

Some Other constraint that I put on:

Latendresse must be paired with Koivu, because it's the only guy that he played good with.

With all theses constraints (Roles and Positions), I've come to an optimization math model (In Excel): I Maximized this big math model with the "Solveur" by : the point production of each line, so each line can have a similar point total at the end of the season.

So, The Best Result that I obtained in my opinion:

Latendresse - Koivu - Kovalev = around 190 points
Tanguay - Lang - A.Kostitsyn = around 180 points
Higgins - Plekanec - S.Kostitsyn = around 170 points
4th line = who cares


Of course, I didn't consider any chemistry thing except for Latendresse, but still we can have a clearer idea of what roles each players have...

This model is only good if Carbo wants 3 lines with similar point production...

So with this line-up, the Habs can have 3 VERY balanced offensive lines.

Overall, it's not bad at all IMO. Excel did a great job



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Old
09-14-2008, 09:06 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Latendresse - Koivu - Kovalev = around 190 points
Tanguay - Lang - A.Kostitsyn = around 180 points
Higgins - Plekanec - S.Kostitsyn = around 170 points
4th line = who cares
So about 35pts each for Plekanec/Higgins then?

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Old
09-14-2008, 09:30 PM
  #158
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no matter the lines, one thing is for sure : we have a soooooolid top 9 !! 3 solid lines that can play both ways and a true grinder line with big G

I'm sure that Carbo will have fun making lines this season, many solid combination possible...

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Old
09-14-2008, 11:07 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
With all theses constraints (Roles and Positions), I've come to an optimization math model (In Excel): I Maximized this big math model with the "Solveur" by : the point production of each line, so each line can have a similar point total at the end of the season.
I started laughing quite hard at this point

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Old
09-14-2008, 11:41 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by TSV View Post
no matter the lines, one thing is for sure : we have a soooooolid top 9 !! 3 solid lines that can play both ways and a true grinder line with big G

I'm sure that Carbo will have fun making lines this season, many solid combination possible...
I agree lol, hes gonna have long restlessnights thinking of line combinations, cuz they all look so good and dynamic lol

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Old
09-15-2008, 09:11 AM
  #161
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i think i would prefer the following lines, as they might be more balanced


AK46-Lang- Kovalev
Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse
Higgins-Plekanec--SK74
Bégin-Lapierre/Chipchura-Laraque/Kostopoulos

or even switch AK46 vs higgins and you can unite the Brothers with plekanec

one thing is for sure the Habs will have 3 well balanced lines all with great speed and dangerous attacks, and this will be difficult for oppoinents to focus on one line, while the others remain an equal threat.

Lets drop the puck already!!

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Old
09-15-2008, 09:25 AM
  #162
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My take is that for the start of the year, I wouldn't want to displease Mr. Kovy and he already reiterate he would love to start the year with his old linemates. But even if he would not have said anything, I would go back with the same trio just to see where they're at. Then, also based on the fact that would not want Lang and Latendresse in the same line, my lineup would be like this:

AK-Pleks-Kovy
Tanguay-Saku-Lats (You need to put him to the test and let him play with great players)
Higgs-Lang-SK
Kosto-Lappy-Laraque

Extras: Bégin (Chip in Hamilton)
Out: Dandy

D-Men

Well it's the same top 6 with Breezer #7.

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Old
09-15-2008, 09:34 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
My take is that for the start of the year, I wouldn't want to displease Mr. Kovy and he already reiterate he would love to start the year with his old linemates. But even if he would not have said anything, I would go back with the same trio just to see where they're at. Then, also based on the fact that would not want Lang and Latendresse in the same line, my lineup would be like this:

AK-Pleks-Kovy
Tanguay-Saku-Lats (You need to put him to the test and let him play with great players)
Higgs-Lang-SK
Kosto-Lappy-Laraque

Extras: Bégin (Chip in Hamilton)
Out: Dandy

D-Men

Well it's the same top 6 with Breezer #7.

Perfect replica of my lineup... We've gotten such a powerful offense in no time. Gainey really is a genius...

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Old
09-15-2008, 09:45 AM
  #164
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Each time I see Lang I think about:


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Old
09-15-2008, 09:51 AM
  #165
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Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse
Higgins-Plekanek-A.Kost
S.Kost-Lang-Kovalev
Lapierre/Begin-Chipchura-Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-O'Byrne/Brisebois
Bouillon-Gorges

Price
Halak

Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse, Latendresse will only to think about score goals and protect Tanguay and Koivu. T and K are two really good two way player and will help Latendresse to score goals.

Higgins-Plekanek-A.Kost, Speed speed and speed, This line is so amazing. Higgins bring the grit, A.Kost bring the skills and Plekanek bring a little bit of everything.

S.Kost-Lang-Kovalev, Lang and Kovalev will have a great chemestry. S.Kost will help them with his caracter and his ability to pass the puck.

Lapierre/Begin-Chipchura-Laraque, 3 differents type of player, but should be really good together.

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Old
09-15-2008, 10:08 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akost View Post
I don't think putting Lang and Lats on the same line is a good choice. The thing is, Higgins or Sergei would be playing with them and would have to do all the backchecking work as the other two are in the top 3 slowest on the team. Lineup should look something like this:

Tanguay-Plekanec-Kovalev
Latendresse-Koivu-A.Kost
Higgins-Lang-S.Kost
Laraque-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

Lapierre/Bégin

Markov/Komisarek
O'Byrne/Hamrlik
Bouillon-Gorges

Price
Halak


If Carbo really wants the Kostitsyn brothers playing together, here's another option:

Tanguay-Lang-Kovalev
S.Kost-Plekanec-A.Kost
Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Laraque-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

Thinking about it, I'd probably go with this second set of lines, seems well balanced. I think Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse could do a lot of damage as a gritty/scoring 3rd line, especially in the playoffs.

I think the first option is the best one ... Tanguay on the top line will help Plekanek reach this next level as a bonafide 1st line center. I am hoping for 80+pts if he is paired with both Kovalev and Tanguay. Plus Tanguay being a playmaker will fit even better the A.Kost IMO.

Lang is slow be he does has a good set of hands, to pair him with two speedy wingers in Higgins and S.Kost. BTW this combo could prove to be very productive once S.Kost starts taking more control of the game. He is a very good passer and could end up feeding to very decent shooter.

Lats is the slowest forward that we have but he can stand in front of the net and is good at protecting the puck in the corners. A.Kost is now at a point where it is time to give him a little rope and more offensive responsabilities. I am hoping he becomes our top forward this year and it would be a treat for Koivu to finally play with an offensive threat!

Has for the fourth line I tend to think that Lapierre will get the nod against Chip but that is not done... Begin, Lapierre, Laraque does sound good in my ears.

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Old
09-15-2008, 10:09 AM
  #167
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A.Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Latendresse-Koivu-Tanguay
Higgins-Lang-S.Kostitsyn

Someone will need to play the offwing between Higgins, Tanguay and Latendresse. Given Latendresse's struggles, I don't see him being moved. So, between Tanguay and Higgins, I see Tanguay as a more natural fit on the RW.

Given the success of the Plekanec line last season, it just makes sense to keep them together to start the campaign. Putting Latendresse and Lang on a line together makes little sense given that both are not fleet of foot. I put Tanguay with Koivu because I think Koivu has more offensive upside then Lang, though it would be nice to keep the Higgins-Koivu chemistry.

Just to see what it would look like, the lines below, while looking great on the top 2 lines, would be of a concern just because of the "slowness" of line 3.

A.Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Higgins-Koivu-Tanguay
Latendresse-Lang-S.Kostitsyn

That leaves Dandenault, Laraque, Kotso and Begin fighting it out for the winger spots and Chipchura and Lapierre for the centre position. With the possibility of Lapierre playing RW. Still, I like these 6 fighting it out for the 3 spots on the last line. Will provide flexibility for Carbo to construct the 4th line based on the opponent.

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-Obyrne
Bouillion-Gorges
Brisebois

Price
Halak

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Old
09-15-2008, 10:48 AM
  #168
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the lines i love to see and the one i thinks its gonna be:

love to see:

A.Kostitsyn - Plekanec - S.Kostitsyn
Higgins - Lang - Kovalev
Latendresse - Koivu - Tanguay
Begin - Lapierre - Laraque

thinks its gonna be:

A.Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - Tanguay
Latendresse - Lang - Kostitsyn
Laraque - Begin - Kostopoulos

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Old
09-15-2008, 11:45 AM
  #169
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The lineup I would like to see:

Tanguay-Plekanec-Kovalev
S.Kostitsyn-Koivu-A.Kostitsyn
Higgins-Lang-Latendresse
Lapierre/Kostopoulos/Dandenault-Chipchura-Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-O'Byrne/Brisebois
Bouillon-Gorges

Price
Halak

In that lineup, everyone is at their natural positions, except the scrubs.

Dandenault or Bégin OUT if Chipchura makes the team. It will be Bégin because Dandenault have a cup ring, he's versatile and he's speedy. Anyway, we talk about the 14th forward, no big deal.

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Old
09-15-2008, 12:38 PM
  #170
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I love the possibilities this year. So many options, and they all seem good. We have 9 quality top 9 players, and a number of good grinders.

So how about something a little different. Guessing at the 2 teams that we'll see play in preseason. Obviously some guys will get switched around and subbed in for a game or 2, but I'd see us trying something like this:

Team 1:
Tanguay - Koivu - Latendresse
Higgins - Maxwell - Pacioretty
Wyman - Chipchura - Glumac
Stewart - Lapierre - Laraque

Markov - Komisarek
Brisebois - Gorges
Henry - Belle

Price
Desjardins

Team 2:
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
D'Agostini - Lang - S. Kostitsyn
Dandenault - Lehoux - Beauregard
Begin - White - Kostopolous

Hamrlik - O'Byrne
Bouillon - Carle
Valentenko - Weber

Halak
Denis

This way they can throw the bros together with either Lang or Plekanec sometimes, and can also try Kovalev with Lang.

We have lots of guys on D. I would expect Subban will get a game at one point. Others could earn games by showing up strong in camp. (Trotter, Pacquet, Anderson, Desharnais...)

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Old
09-15-2008, 01:00 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kebekoi View Post
Each time I see Lang I think about:

I pity the fool!!!!

A. Kost - Plekanec - Kovalev
Tanguay - Koivu - Latendresse
Higgins - Lang - S. Kost
Begin - Lapierre - Kosto
Laraque
Dandenault

Markov - Komisarek
Hamrlik - O'Byrne
Bouillon - Gorges
Brisebois

Price
Halak

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Old
09-15-2008, 06:13 PM
  #172
Marc the Habs Fan
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Surprised no one posted this:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/259890.html

Carbo not inclined to break up the Plekanec line it looks like.

He also confirmed Brisebois will be the 7th D, top 6 is set.

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Old
09-15-2008, 06:31 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Surprised no one posted this:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/259890.html

Carbo not inclined to break up the Plekanec line it looks like.

He also confirmed Brisebois will be the 7th D, top 6 is set.
The only lineup i can see is putting Lats with Koivu. Lats always plays well with Saku and it seems they compliment each other.

A.Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse
Higgins-Lang-S.Kostitsyn
Begin-Lapierre/Chipchura-Laraque/Kostopoulos

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-O'Byrne
Bouillon-Gorges
Brisebois

Price
Halak

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Old
09-16-2008, 05:56 AM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse
Higgins-Plekanek-A.Kost
S.Kost-Lang-Kovalev
Lapierre/Begin-Chipchura-Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-O'Byrne/Brisebois
Bouillon-Gorges

Price
Halak
I like these lines, exactly what I was going to suggest.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in the thread already, not read through the whole thing, but wasn't there a quote from Carbo or Gainey last year at camp about how they felt it important that lines were built around a solid duo with chemistry and then be rounded out by another player? With that in mind, I'd use the following pairings as the basis for lines and build from there:

Tanguay - Koivu: Two vets with speed and skill. Seems like Tanguay is interested in playing with Saku. If they have decent chemistry they would be one key pairing. Gives Saku an excellent, experienced winger to work with too, interest of helping young guys like Higgins, Lats, Sergei adapt and improve. This duo forms a solid partnership that can help take some strain off a young guy who will round out the line.

Lang - Kovalev: Again, it depends on them finding chemistry together with the Habs, but seems like they might be interested in trying to rekindle their chemistry of days past. A couple more experienced guys, big bodies and scoring skills. Again, if they click, they could be good for a younger player to join up with.

Higgins - Plekanec: What needs to be said about this partnership? Maybe the two pairs above do/don't have chemistry, we might find out soon. But these two DO have GREAT chemistry and form the basis of a good line, whoever rounds it out. They have great speed, scoring skills, 2 way play and work well with a number of other players. This duo is a gimme.

Chipchura - Lapierre: I'd go with a young duo to start with, unless either has trouble in camp. They provide a mixture of speed/positioning, drive to the net/puck possession, can both pot a few goals and both get involved in some aspect of the physical side of the game. Having two centres on a line isn't a bad idea either, when it comes to faceoffs. They can be rounded out by a veteran presence but neither are yet so important that they can't be replaced for a stint if their game goes downhill a little. There will be competition for these places to drive the kids forward, veteran support to help steady them when needed or take over and take the pressure off during slumps and the kids still get more experience for the future.

Rounding out these duos is the fun part, it could pretty much be pick'n'mix, but I'd go with what Talent Analyst suggested.

Lats with Tanguay/Koivu as he plays well with Saku and gets to play right wing so we can see what he can do from there. It'll be up to him to perform though as there can be no complaints he isn't on a scoring line with those two. I think he'd do fine though.

Youtube with Higgins/Plekanec is obvious - bring back the CAT line. We know it can work, we know they all have offensive skills, we know they can all get back and help out in their own end and this gives Andrei a spot on the right wing where he will be the most skilled puck carrier on the line. Let him establish himself in a 'Kovalev' sort of role while we have two other scoring lines to take the pressure off him. The line as a whole works fine though.

Sergei with Lang/Kovalev to give these guys a chance to get open and use their shots. They can also draw attention away from Sergei to let him utilise the open ice a bit more. They can all pass, they can all shoot, they all have good hands. Veteran presence for Sergei to learn from and some youthful enthusiasm to give those old guys a boost

Take your pick. Need a heavyweight? BGL is the guy. Need some extra energy and PK skills? Begin (when healthy) or Nonstop will do the job. When injuries hit, when youngsters slump, if there is a trade we don't see coming, we have experienced NHLers waiting in the wings to give us some useful depth and to give guys all the time they need to fully heal.

The D is straightforward IMO, can't see anything unusual happening here unless Valentenko improved over the summer like he did during the season last year (which is a possibility). Same thing in goal, we know what will likely happen there.

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09-16-2008, 07:25 AM
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WeThreeKings
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Carbonneau again squashing the A Kost on RW dream.

I hate hoping the line struggles just so A. Kost gets moved to his natural most explosive wing.

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