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Ott/Tor

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Old
09-13-2008, 06:37 PM
  #1
Suitcase73
 
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Ott/Tor

To Ott: Vesa Toskala and Alexei Ponikarovsky

To Tor: Martin Gerber and Mike Fisher

Ott improves their goaltending with Toskala. He isn't that big of an upgrade over Gerber but is a little more consistant and i think Toskala could do well with the amount of solid defensive defencman Sens have. Ponikarovsky could float from the 2nd to 3rd line depending on how well of a year Foligno has.

Toronto isn't as interested in Gerber as they are in Fisher. Fisher brings back some of the offence TO lost with Sundin and is guaranteed for 20-25 goals a season. A decent faceoff man and exceptional penalty killer. He is crazy fast and is one of the leagues hardest hitters, which is great especially when he does it 234 times a season. I think he would fit in very well with some of the new young players in Toronto. His work ethic and athleticism makes him an exciting player to watch.

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Old
09-13-2008, 06:43 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermettefanatic View Post
To Ott: Vesa Toskala and Alexei Ponikarovsky

To Tor: Martin Gerber and Mike Fisher

Ott improves their goaltending with Toskala. He isn't that big of an upgrade over Gerber but is a little more consistant and i think Toskala could do well with the amount of solid defensive defencman Sens have. Ponikarovsky could float from the 2nd to 3rd line depending on how well of a year Foligno has.

Toronto isn't as interested in Gerber as they are in Fisher. Fisher brings back some of the offence TO lost with Sundin and is guaranteed for 20-25 goals a season. A decent faceoff man and exceptional penalty killer. He is crazy fast and is one of the leagues hardest hitters, which is great especially when he does it 234 times a season. I think he would fit in very well with some of the new young players in Toronto. His work ethic and athleticism makes him an exciting player to watch.
When someone starts a thread based on a proposed Ottawa, Toronto trade an fairy gets a game misconduct.

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Old
09-13-2008, 06:52 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermettefanatic View Post
Ott improves their goaltending with Toskala. He isn't that big of an upgrade over Gerber
LOL

Toskala is such an outstanding goaltender, can't believe we'd compare him to Gerber.

That said Fisher should be more than enough.

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Old
09-13-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermettefanatic View Post
To Ott: Vesa Toskala and Alexei Ponikarovsky

To Tor: Martin Gerber and Mike Fisher

Ott improves their goaltending with Toskala. He isn't that big of an upgrade over Gerber but is a little more consistant and i think Toskala could do well with the amount of solid defensive defencman Sens have. Ponikarovsky could float from the 2nd to 3rd line depending on how well of a year Foligno has.

Toronto isn't as interested in Gerber as they are in Fisher. Fisher brings back some of the offence TO lost with Sundin and is guaranteed for 20-25 goals a season. A decent faceoff man and exceptional penalty killer. He is crazy fast and is one of the leagues hardest hitters, which is great especially when he does it 234 times a season. I think he would fit in very well with some of the new young players in Toronto. His work ethic and athleticism makes him an exciting player to watch.
no point in posting ott-tor deals


especially with players that have no trade contracts(fisher)

terrible fail of a proposal

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Old
09-13-2008, 09:12 PM
  #5
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As much as I'd love to add Fisher, Not at the expense of a Toskala-to-Gerber downgrade.

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Old
09-13-2008, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmor View Post
no point in posting xxx-tor deals

terrible fail of a proposal

I was thinking something along the lines of holding a contraction dispersal with all TML's players going to the other 29 teams (no refusals!);

and then holding an Expansion Draft to refill Toronto's roster. Every team gets to protect 15 players, then if they lose one they get to add one more to the protected list. Toronto must draft one player from each of the 29 teams.

Then there would be no more HF trade Proposals from TML fans
(or at least until after the Expansion Draft).

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Old
09-13-2008, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelVecchio View Post
I was thinking something along the lines of holding a contraction dispersal with all TML's players going to the other 29 teams (no refusals!);

and then holding an Expansion Draft to refill Toronto's roster. Every team gets to protect 15 players, then if they lose one they get to add one more to the protected list. Toronto must draft one player from each of the 29 teams.

Then there would be no more HF trade Proposals from TML fans
(or at least until after the Expansion Draft).
So it goes from minor delusions of worth to even greater delusions of worth?

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Old
09-13-2008, 09:37 PM
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Toskala is worth more to us than a Fisher would be. Not a bad start, but Toronto would need more in return. Let's try and get Vermette involved somehow...

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Old
09-13-2008, 10:35 PM
  #9
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I really dont think Mike Fisher would be enough incentives for Toronto to give up Toskala. I do feel Toskala is becoming overrated, he isnt outstanding. But compared to Gerber he's Patrick Roy and Dominik Hasek spliced into one super goalie.

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Old
09-13-2008, 10:36 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClubSandwiches View Post
LOL

Toskala is such an outstanding goaltender, can't believe we'd compare him to Gerber.

That said Fisher should be more than enough.
Actually Gerber finished with a higher save percentage than Toskala last season. I don't see how they are uncomparable. Not to mention had a good playoffs despite getting swept. When a team gets swept and the goaltender still played well it says alot.

Yes i know Fisher has a NTC, but it wouldn't be the first time a NTC has been waived. I think it would make sense from an Ott point of view because Vermette deserves the 2nd line center position, he has far superior offensive skills and is outstanding on the faceoffs. Fisher doesn't like playing RW, and he would have a much larger role in TO.

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Old
09-13-2008, 10:36 PM
  #11
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In terms of value to both teams:

Toskala >Fischer
Poni > Gerber

How does this help Toronto. We give up Toskala, who's the best player in the deal easily, and we don't anything more than get a glorified 3rd liner and a 1B goalie. Yeah, Fisher's a great heart and soul guy, but he's yet to crack 50 points, thus not the top line center we're looking for, and barely the 2nd line guy we're looking for. Gerber is just Gerber, and has little to no value, same as Poni, though Poni's is probably a bit higher than Gerber, since he's a big body that can skate well and pot 15-20.

Honestly, there's no point in making TOR-OTT proposals, because while some may be close in value, neither team/fanbase is willing to make a fair deal with the other.

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Old
09-13-2008, 11:55 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermettefanatic View Post
Actually Gerber finished with a higher save percentage than Toskala last season. I don't see how they are uncomparable. Not to mention had a good playoffs despite getting swept. When a team gets swept and the goaltender still played well it says alot.
Ok, so let me ask you this. If Toskala is just a slight upgrade over Gerber then why would you trade Mike Fisher to land him (Toskala)? It's not that you just value Ponikarovsky that much. So what is it?

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Old
09-14-2008, 12:04 AM
  #13
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One of these days, I hope proposals involving division rivals with players that have NTCs will be banned.

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Old
09-14-2008, 01:57 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClubSandwiches View Post
Ok, so let me ask you this. If Toskala is just a slight upgrade over Gerber then why would you trade Mike Fisher to land him (Toskala)? It's not that you just value Ponikarovsky that much. So what is it?
A slight upgrade in goal is worth alot these days. I do not think Gerber is a strong goaltender thus why i am making a trade proposal to get rid of him. Ponikarovsky was thrown in the proposal to even out the value. I was actually trying to make a proposal that benefits both teams but i never thought people would think Toskala's value would be that high after a questionable season. I know he can play alot better than that and is a strong number one goalie, but i don't think his value is any more in comparison to Gerber, as Fisher is to Ponikarovsky.

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Old
09-14-2008, 03:30 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by MuffinMan15 View Post
One of these days, I hope proposals involving division rivals with players that have NTCs will be banned.
Oh really, i thought McCabe just waived his no trade clause to 5 teams? All of them in the East including Boston in the same division. And Ottawa and Toronto havn't been rivals in three years.

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Old
09-14-2008, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik View Post
In terms of value to both teams:

Toskala >Fischer
Poni > Gerber

How does this help Toronto. We give up Toskala, who's the best player in the deal easily, and we don't anything more than get a glorified 3rd liner and a 1B goalie. Yeah, Fisher's a great heart and soul guy, but he's yet to crack 50 points, thus not the top line center we're looking for, and barely the 2nd line guy we're looking for. Gerber is just Gerber, and has little to no value, same as Poni, though Poni's is probably a bit higher than Gerber, since he's a big body that can skate well and pot 15-20.

Honestly, there's no point in making TOR-OTT proposals, because while some may be close in value, neither team/fanbase is willing to make a fair deal with the other.
Ponikarovsky doesn't have a greater value than a number one goalie, even if it is Gerber. 35 points doesn't come close to a goalie who was considered a good goalie not too long ago. In his last season in Carolina he was very solid, he could return to that status under the right conditions. Ottawa had a lousy season last year and its really hard to be a consistant goalie when the rest of the team isn't.

Fisher would be the number two center in TO, he can be more than a 3rd liner. Other than possibly Antropov he would be leading the Leafs in goals. He would fill in a spot on the first PK, and on the PP. I don't see how that doesn't benefit the Leafs.

If this year is going to be another rebuild year then it really doesn't matter who is in net because playoffs are probably not going to be an option any way.

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Old
09-14-2008, 07:45 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermettefanatic View Post
Ponikarovsky doesn't have a greater value than a number one goalie, even if it is Gerber. 35 points doesn't come close to a goalie who was considered a good goalie not too long ago. In his last season in Carolina he was very solid, he could return to that status under the right conditions. Ottawa had a lousy season last year and its really hard to be a consistant goalie when the rest of the team isn't.

Fisher would be the number two center in TO, he can be more than a 3rd liner. Other than possibly Antropov he would be leading the Leafs in goals. He would fill in a spot on the first PK, and on the PP. I don't see how that doesn't benefit the Leafs.

If this year is going to be another rebuild year then it really doesn't matter who is in net because playoffs are probably not going to be an option any way.
Value in the NHL is based on what have you done for me lately, and Gerber hasn't done much lately. If it was based on past value, McCabe would have gotten more than Van Ryn, and Redden wouldn't have been allowed to walk. Gerber's value has been diminished in his time with OTT, not only from his play, but from the fact that there's little market for goaltenders, but whatever market there is, Toskala has greater value than him (otherwise you wouldn't be trying to trade for him), that is why it matters.

And Fisher is not a true #2 center. If the guy can't break 50 points on the Sens, why would he do so on the Leafs with inferior support? Yes he is a good PKer and defensive player, but really, that just defines 3rd line roles. Would he be the #2 center on the Leafs? Probably, but that's a testament to the lack of quality depth the Leafs have, not to the skill of Fisher.

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Old
09-14-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik View Post
And Fisher is not a true #2 center. If the guy can't break 50 points on the Sens, why would he do so on the Leafs with inferior support? Yes he is a good PKer and defensive player, but really, that just defines 3rd line roles. Would he be the #2 center on the Leafs? Probably, but that's a testament to the lack of quality depth the Leafs have, not to the skill of Fisher.
If the Leafs can't give Fisher better wingers than Neil, Schaefer, Foligno, Robitaille, etc. then they are in more trouble than I thought.

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Old
09-14-2008, 11:43 AM
  #19
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Why do Ott fans love to hose Toronto in trades What are they not bad enough already

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Old
09-14-2008, 12:20 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by vermettefanatic View Post
Oh really, i thought McCabe just waived his no trade clause to 5 teams? All of them in the East including Boston in the same division. And Ottawa and Toronto havn't been rivals in three years.
You got me. The battle of Ontario is nothing compared to the rivalry between the Leafs and Panthers. Hopefully, Fisher stops refusing to waive his NTC so that the Sens can finally trade their heart and soul player to a former rival so that they can get the one player that is most expendable on the Leafs roster (Toskala).

But seriously, your proposal isn't THAT terrible, but do you really think the Sens would trade Fisher to the Leafs? Murray would get eaten alive by Sens fans. And I don't think Fletcher would be very popular amongst Leaf fans if he traded Toskala to a division rival (just because a team becomes less competitive, it doesn't erase the history between these 2 franchises, especially after the Bell hits on Fisher and Alfie).

Sorry for the sarcasm, post whatever you want and don't take offence to my comments, I'm always an ass and never serious. Welcome to HF!

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Old
09-14-2008, 12:29 PM
  #21
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Lets Try.....

Toskala
Antropov
Ponikarovsky

for

Fisher
Vermette
Gerber
2nd

Steen-Vermette-Kulemin
Tlusty-Fisher-Hagman

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Old
09-14-2008, 01:17 PM
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epic failure

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Old
09-14-2008, 03:18 PM
  #23
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So let me get this straight.

Fisher, 6 million for this year, 23 goals last year.
Gerber, terrible, 3.7 million this year.

for

Ponikarovsky, 2.2 million this year, 18 goals last year.
Toskala, 4 million this year, better than Gerber.

Right, Toronto's going to pay an addition 3.8 mill for a guy who can net 5 more goals, and downgrade in net. Bad proposal.


Last edited by I Hate Chris Butler: 09-14-2008 at 03:30 PM.
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Old
09-14-2008, 03:37 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermettefanatic View Post
To Ott: Vesa Toskala and Alexei Ponikarovsky

To Tor: Martin Gerber and Mike Fisher

Ott improves their goaltending with Toskala. He isn't that big of an upgrade over Gerber but is a little more consistant and i think Toskala could do well with the amount of solid defensive defencman Sens have. Ponikarovsky could float from the 2nd to 3rd line depending on how well of a year Foligno has.

Toronto isn't as interested in Gerber as they are in Fisher. Fisher brings back some of the offence TO lost with Sundin and is guaranteed for 20-25 goals a season. A decent faceoff man and exceptional penalty killer. He is crazy fast and is one of the leagues hardest hitters, which is great especially when he does it 234 times a season. I think he would fit in very well with some of the new young players in Toronto. His work ethic and athleticism makes him an exciting player to watch.

Epic fail my friend

Toskala is better than Gerber by a landslide

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Old
09-14-2008, 05:34 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Lets Try.....

Toskala
Antropov
Ponikarovsky

for

Fisher
Vermette
Gerber
2nd

Steen-Vermette-Kulemin
Tlusty-Fisher-Hagman
This one is close.....

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